Tua benched again - will start in Buffalo week 17

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

5 minutes ago, buffalo2218 said:

For all we know, in McDermott's mindset, that was the reason the team played so stagnant for half the game against Houston. McDermott compared to last year has changed from a conservative mindset to an aggressive one. I honestly don't think McDermott will rest his starters come week 17

 

But neither side of the ball started stagnant in last years wild card game. We were up 16-0 at the half so I don't think that was the reason we lost.

 

If I am McDermott I think I actually take a page out of Belicheck's handbook on how they've approached meaningless games in the past. It typically involves resting guys like Edleman or Gronk but having Brady start and play the entire first half. But a lot of handoffs and safe throws. BUT, my big concern with Josh would be that he's not wired to live another down and take the safe play. He could end up getting hurt because he's trying to complete a first down on 3rd and 13. 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Sammy Watkins' Rib

[TBBills]

Just now, Inigo Montoya said:

If Josh Allen gets injured playing in a meaningless Week 17 game against the Dolphins, every post on this message board will be dropping napalm on McDermott.  If there is nothing to play for, let the starters get in for a series, and then sit them just like last year. 

 

We didn't lose the Houston game because the starters rested the week before.  We came out hot and got on top of the Texans early and only a comedy of errors and bad officiating cost us the game.  

Who cares about what people on this forum will do.

[Inigo Montoya]

1 minute ago, TBBills said:

The last thing anyone wants is the Dolphins to make the playoffs. The only thing that can beat this Bills team is luck... and the Dolphins have had a very lucky year.

 

 I'd rather play the Phins than Derrick Henry in bad weather in Orchard Park.

[buffalo2218]

Just now, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

But neither side of the ball was stagnant in last years wild card game. We were up 16-0 at the half so I don't think that was the reason we lost.

 

If I am McDermott I think I actually take a page out of Belicheck's handbook on how they've approached meaningless games in the past. It typically involves resting guys like Edleman or Gronk but having Brady start and play the entire first half. But a lot of handoffs and safe throws. BUT, my big concern with Josh would be that he's not wired to live another down and take the safe play. He could end up getting hurt because he's trying to complete a first down on 3rd and 13. 

 

 

I'll concede that Allen may play the whole first half. But maybe less if McDermott determines that the Dolphins are out to try and hurt Allen. It's not like I'm worried about losing to Miami. We beat them with their better QB playing the whole game and Allen dropping over 400 on their defense in their own house

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

24 minutes ago, JoshAllenReceipts said:

Tua stinks.

 

Never an elite NFL QB prospect.

 

Kurt Warner had a great comment that Tua needs to get used to NFL open for WR's. And he has a larger learning curve than other QB's because of how talented Alabama is. 

 

Thing I dislike most about Tua is that he doesn't seem to have a single elite skill set of any kind. You're basically hoping he can be the second coming of Drew Brees. 

[TBBills]

2 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

 I'd rather play the Phins than Derrick Henry in bad weather in Orchard Park.

Nah I would rather play anyone b.c the Bills should be able to beat anyone. The only thing you cannot control is luck and the Dolphins have a ton of it. Bills actually did fine against Henry and our defense is better now.

Edited December 27, 2020 by TBBills

[JoshAllenReceipts]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Kurt Warner had a great comment that Tua needs to get used to NFL open for WR's. And he has a larger learning curve than other QB's because of how talented Alabama is. 

 

Thing I dislike most about Tua is that he doesn't seem to have a single elite skill set of any kind. You're basically hoping he can be the second coming of Drew Brees. 

 

 

Tua is the left handed Baker Mayfield.

 

Tua and Baker are the same. Neither have a single elite skill or trait of any kind.

[Penfield45]

26 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Tua can't complete a pass beyond 10 yards.  So you play press man and rush 5-6 on every play.  He won't stand a chance.  We're lucky Flores is an idiot.  Fitz would at least force us to defend the whole field.

to be fair the dolphins have one of the least talented offenses in the league 

 

might be worse than ours in Allen’s rookie year 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

 

Just now, TBBills said:

Nah I would rather play anyone b.c the Bills should be able to beat anyone. The only thing you cannot control is luck and the Dolphins have a ton of it. Bills actually did fine against Henry and our defense is better now.

 

THIS!

 

There is just something about this Dolphins team. They are getting every bounce. Their rookie QB is garbage yet they still compete and just about win every game. I'm not favoring any match up really. And a match up with the Dolphins would be frustrating because we could be up 10 at the half and totally shutting down Tua only to then have to deal with Fitz and a better offense in the second half. 

Just now, Penfield45 said:

to be fair the dolphins have one of the least talented offenses in the league 

 

might be worse than ours in Allen’s rookie year 

 

They are night and day better with Fitz under center. The offensive skill players are not nearly as bad as they seem. 

[Inigo Montoya]

1 minute ago, TBBills said:

Who cares about what people on this forum will do.

 

My point is the same people advocating on this thread that the Bills play to win a meaningless Week 17 game will suddenly forget that opinion and nuke McDermott for being stupid enough to play Allen in a meaningless game.   

 

The chance of the Bills winning a single playoff game without Allen is <5%.  

 

 

[Bimmer323i]

Something about Tua just irks the heck outta me... The way he throws and looks out on the field.... I frankly can’t even stand the sight of the guy.... I hope it’s cold windy and snowing next weekend when the dolphins come to town cause I’d love to see our defense smash the living#%^* outta that guy....

[Penfield45]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

 

THIS!

 

There is just something about this Dolphins team. They are getting every bounce. Their rookie QB is garbage yet they still compete and just about win every game. I'm not favoring any match up really. And a match up with the Dolphins would be frustrating because we could be up 10 at the half and totally shutting down Tua only to then have to deal with Fitz and a better offense in the second half. 

 

They are night and day better with Fitz under center. The offensive skill players are not nearly as bad as they seem. 

that doesn’t mean anything 

 

fitz is a 10+ year Vet. He would look better than any rookie this season except Herbert 

 

 

[mannc]

8 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Kurt Warner had a great comment that Tua needs to get used to NFL open for WR's. And he has a larger learning curve than other QB's because of how talented Alabama is. 

 

Thing I dislike most about Tua is that he doesn't seem to have a single elite skill set of any kind. You're basically hoping he can be the second coming of Drew Brees. 

Jalen Hurts looks like a better prospect, to me.  Better arm, much faster, better escapability.

[TBBills]

1 minute ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

My point is the same people advocating on this thread that the Bills play to win a meaningless Week 17 game will suddenly forget that opinion and nuke McDermott for being stupid enough to play Allen in a meaningless game.   

 

The chance of the Bills winning a single playoff game without Allen is <5%.  

 

 

Ok... let them Allen isnt gonna get hurt.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

to be fair the dolphins have one of the least talented offenses in the league 

 

might be worse than ours in Allen’s rookie year 

 

Ah...no

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ah...no

I mean who on that Bills 2018 offense is still starting anywhere?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Just now, Penfield45 said:

that doesn’t mean anything 

 

fitz is a 10+ year Vet. He would look better than any rookie this season except Herbert 

 

 

 

My point is you wouldn't be suggesting the skill players are so bad if they all had a couple hundred more yards and a couple more TD's each on the season because Tua never played 7 games. 

Just now, Warcodered said:

I mean who on that Bills 2018 offense is still starting anywhere?

Bueller? Bueller?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

49 minutes ago, SCBills said:

We literally rested players last year. 

 

We rested players and it was still a 3-3 game until the 4Q.  We weren't playing to deliberately lose.

 

World of difference between saying "OK, we're going to hold these guy out and here's our plan to kick their butts anyway" vs saying "we're deliberately trying to lose this game"

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

might be worse than ours in Allen’s rookie year 

 

Nope.

[Big Turk]

36 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

Weather is not going to be that nice for him next week either.

 

Ehh...very early reports suggest it won't be bad. 34, partly cloudy and winds about 10mph. 

 

Things could change but as of right now it looks pretty tranquil.

[Inigo Montoya]

10 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Ok... let them Allen isnt gonna get hurt.

 

Well, if you say so, that's all I need to hear! 

 

🍻

[Mat68]

15 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

to be fair the dolphins have one of the least talented offenses in the league 

 

might be worse than ours in Allen’s rookie year 

To be fair Fitzpatrick is playing with the same recievers.  With Fitz they have a NFL offense.  With Tua its a dumpster fire.  Miami has to win mythodicaly.  I get being scared of bad Fitz.  When the game is slipping away who cares if there are picks.  Out of the rookie Qbs who played Tua is above Danuzzi and below everyone else.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I mean who on that Bills 2018 offense is still starting anywhere?

 

Well...Allen and D-Dawk of course.  John Miller, believe it or don't (Carolina).  Zay Jones.  Not starting but McCoy still playing (Tampa).

 

Parker, Gesicki, and Gaskin for Miami are all good players.  And frankly Fitzpatrick is a better QB (not player, QB) than Allen was in 2018.

 

As a whole, the Miami offense is 16th in the league for points.  The 2018 Bills offense was 30th in the league for points.   There is no way to construct a reasonable argument that the Bills 2018 offense was better or had more talent than Miami's offense this year.

 

Fitzpatrick is a better QB than Tua this year.  Flores wants to win, but this business of pulling Tua whenever the going gets tough - I don't see how that's going to work for either Flores or for Tua in the long term.  However you "spin" it the message to both Tua and to the team is "we don't trust you to rev up your clutch gene and pull it out when the going gets tough"

[billsbackto81]

20 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Nah I would rather play anyone b.c the Bills should be able to beat anyone. The only thing you cannot control is luck and the Dolphins have a ton of it. Bills actually did fine against Henry and our defense is better now.

This so true and it scares me to death. They've rolled 7-11's all season. They are very lucky and very opportunistic. Even when they play like 💩 their opponents always shoot themselves with stupid plays and stupid coaching. How does Gruden play for the FG instead of the TD only to be up 2 points. Asinine! 

[Big Blitz]

26 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

 

THIS!

 

There is just something about this Dolphins team. They are getting every bounce. Their rookie QB is garbage yet they still compete and just about win every game. I'm not favoring any match up really. And a match up with the Dolphins would be frustrating because we could be up 10 at the half and totally shutting down Tua only to then have to deal with Fitz and a better offense in the second half. 

 

They are night and day better with Fitz under center. The offensive skill players are not nearly as bad as they seem. 

 

They were 3-3 in games Fitz started and 6-2 with Tua.  

 

They should have lost to a virtually eliminated Raiders team tonight.  An awful Raiders Defense went full Raiders defense.  

 

They are a good team yes.  We knew this coming in to the season.  They spent a lot on Defense and on 2 running backs they don't use.  Well one they cut.  

 

But I'll take my chances with them and any other team not named the Ravens in RD 1.  This does not mean we as fans take them lightly.  

Edited December 27, 2020 by Big Blitz

[eball]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well...Allen and D-Dawk of course.  John Miller, believe it or don't (Carolina).  Zay Jones.  Not starting but McCoy still playing (Tampa).

 

Parker, Gesicki, and Gaskin for Miami are all good players.  And frankly Fitzpatrick is a better QB (not player, QB) than Allen was in 2018.

 

As a whole, the Miami offense is 16th in the league for points.  The 2018 Bills offense was 30th in the league for points.   There is no way to construct a reasonable argument that the Bills 2018 offense was better or had more talent than Miami's offense this year.

 

Fitzpatrick is a better QB than Tua this year.  Flores wants to win, but this business of pulling Tua whenever the going gets tough - I don't see how that's going to work for either Flores or for Tua in the long term.  However you "spin" it the message to both Tua and to the team is "we don't trust you to rev up your clutch gene and pull it out when the going gets tough"

Yep. What exactly is the message to this Fish team?

 

”Tua is our guy, except when we are behind in the 2nd half because we know he’s not clutch. But after Fitz gives us a spark and chance to win don’t get too comfortable because Tua is our guy next week.”

[NewEra]

32 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

My point is the same people advocating on this thread that the Bills play to win a meaningless Week 17 game will suddenly forget that opinion and nuke McDermott for being stupid enough to play Allen in a meaningless game.   

 

The chance of the Bills winning a single playoff game without Allen is <5%.  

 

 

I think they do their best to keep this mojo flowing.  If that means starting all the starters, so be it.  The only thing I know for sure:  we’re on a roll and have serious momentum.  I just don’t know if we should risk losing this momentum.  We’re in a different position than almost every team.  We’re playing like the best team in football.  

[BananaB]

Weird situation, not sure how it helps Tua. When things aren’t working they have no trust in him to step up and make the necessary plays. At the time they made the change it was a 3 point game. 
 

At least we know now what to expect. We know we gotta have a game plan for both QBs because if they get down they ain’t sticking with Tua. 

[Dafan]

If KC loses tomorrow and the Steelers win, the first seed could be on the line for week 17 (with the Bills beating the Pats).  Yes, wishful thinking.   But KC losing out with Pitts and Buffalo winning out gives us the #1 seed through tiebreaker.

[BananaB]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

I think they do their best to keep this mojo flowing.  If that means starting all the starters, so be it.  The only thing I know for sure:  we’re on a roll and have serious momentum.  I just don’t know if we should risk losing this momentum.  We’re in a different position than almost every team.  We’re playing like the best team in football.  

You want to play hard but you don’t want to show your game plan for them in week 17 if you may face them in the wildcard... 

[Bubba Gump]

5 minutes ago, Dafan said:

If KC loses tomorrow and the Steelers win, the first seed could be on the line for week 17 (with the Bills beating the Pats).  Yes, wishful thinking.   But KC losing out with Pitts and Buffalo winning out gives us the #1 seed through tiebreaker.

 

No it doesn't. KC beat us head to head, so they have the tiebreaker if both teams are 13-3.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

4 minutes ago, Dafan said:

If KC loses tomorrow and the Steelers win, the first seed could be on the line for week 17 (with the Bills beating the Pats).  Yes, wishful thinking.   But KC losing out with Pitts and Buffalo winning out gives us the #1 seed through tiebreaker.

 

Not that simple. Last i knew a couple other games had to go our way based on SOV tie breakers. Jets needed to beat the Browns. But right now, playing around with the playoff machine I can't seem to find anyway that the Bills can get the #1 seed.

[InEnemyTerritory]

25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well...Allen and D-Dawk of course.  John Miller, believe it or don't (Carolina).  Zay Jones.  Not starting but McCoy still playing (Tampa).

 

 

John Miller is still playing???  Good Lord... poor Teddy B.

 

On another note I'm really glad Tua seems like he doesn't have "it."  I read some article saying young QBs who get benched in their first year are almost always busts.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Just now, Bubba Gump said:

 

No it doesn't. KC beat us head to head, so they have the tiebreaker if both teams are 13-3.

 

Three teams are tied at 13-3 in the scenario they are describing. Bills, Steelers and K.C. So head to head tie breakers do not apply. 

[Bubba Gump]

Just now, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Not that simple. Last i knew a couple other games had to go our way based on SOV tie breakers. Jets needed to beat the Browns. But right now, playing around with the playoff machine I can't seem to find anyway that the Bills can get the #1 seed.

 

They can't, KC beat us this year.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Just now, Bubba Gump said:

 

They can't, KC beat us this year.

 

Three way tiebreaker between Steelers, Bills and Chiefs. But not sure how we would win it. 

[Bubba Gump]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Three teams are tied at 13-3 in the scenario they are describing. Bills, Steelers and K.C. So head to head tie breakers do not apply. 

 

If they all finish 13-3 the seeding would be 

1. KC 

2. Buffalo

3. Pitts

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Just now, Bubba Gump said:

 

If they all finish 13-3 the seeding would be 

1. KC 

2. Buffalo

3. Pitts

 

 

All I know is that a week ago the playoff machine showed that it was possible for KC, Buffalo and Pittsburgh to all finish 13-3 with the Bills taking the 1 seed. But now that KC has beaten the Saints and strengthened their SOV it no longer looks possible. I am guessing the Saints winning yesterday sealed the deal. I think until yesterday we needed all three teams to finish 13-3 AND have the Saints lose to the Vikings and Browns lose to the Jets.

[Dafan]

6 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

No it doesn't. KC beat us head to head, so they have the tiebreaker if both teams are 13-3.

But in a three way tie it goes head to head.  Steelers didn't play KC.  So I believe it goes to next step which is division records.  KC would have 4-2 with steelers and bills being 5-1.

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, Dafan said:

But in a three way tie it goes head to head.  Steelers didn't play KC.  So I believe it goes to next step which is division records.  KC would have 4-2 with steelers and bills being 5-1.

Head to Head gets thrown out in a 3 way tie.