Did D. Williams Make a LOT of $ Tonight?

[Victory Formation]

4 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

There’s a bit too much “let’s cut morse” on here for comfort. The guys does his job when he’s playing. I get that he’s injured a lot, but where would this team be if Feliciano was started and got injured. Bates? Then we’d be hurting. We’d be too thin without Morse. I’d say Williams needs to be paid, but not for the cost of an average LT. I would start negotiations at $9M. He’s current making $2.25M. 

I think $10M would get it done with Williams.

[Doc]

11 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

My friend, I think not only can we cut Morse next year but we should. There is an out in his contract, a $2M cap hit and $9M in savings. Sign Feliciano to a 3yr $21M dollar deal and plug him in at center. Take that extra $2M from cutting Morse and put it towards a Daryl Williams extension. Find a true road grading guard to put in on that right side and we should see Singletary and Moss put up some decent numbers. Pray Ford comes along.

Where did you see this?

[Matt_In_NH]

Feliciano, D Williams, Milano......pick 2 of 3 or can them sign them all?  The NFL will watch the whole  season and wont go by one game....he was getting paid anyway.

[RiotAct]

Duke Williams?  I hope so!

[Matt_In_NH]

On 12/14/2020 at 8:04 AM, Da webster guy said:

Morse restructures or he goes.  Astro says Bills scouting college Centers hard this year.

A lot of what happens with Williams is going to be influenced by his play in the post season.  If he continues to ball out I can't imagine Beane not throwing him a legit offer.

Restructure means tying morse to the cap longer, might not be a good plan....

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Where did you see this?

Spotrac 

[Maynard]

On 12/14/2020 at 6:01 PM, Victory Formation said:

My friend, I think not only can we cut Morse next year but we should. There is an out in his contract, a $2M cap hit and $9M in savings. Sign Feliciano to a 3yr $21M dollar deal and plug him in at center. Take that extra $2M from cutting Morse and put it towards a Daryl Williams extension. Find a true road grading guard to put in on that right side and we should see Singletary and Moss put up some decent numbers. Pray Ford comes along.

I’m sold! Sign me up for that. 👍

[Doc]

11 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Spotrac 

 

What I see on Spotrac is he has $5.5M in unamortized signing bonus, which can be split into $2.75 next year and the same amount in 2022.  He has a salary of $7.025M and roster and workout bonuses of $600K.  Taking those and subtracting $2.75M and you get $4.875M.  

[Mat68]

On 12/14/2020 at 5:21 AM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

We get rid of those three and we'll have to replace them with probably two FAs. It would just leave holes. Murphy certainly seems almost certain. Butler and Jefferson considerably less so, though obviously they are both possibilities.

 

But if you get rid of them, that leaves under contract :

 

DEs:  Addison, Epenesa, Hughes, Darryl Johnson

DTs: Lotulelei, Oliver and Phillips

 

Since we run an eight-man platoon, those seven alone would require us to bring in probably three guys, certainly two.

 

 

 

I'm hoping we find a way, but I can't see much chance of keeping Milano, Feliciano and Williams. And Williams is the one who will maybe be the most expensive of the three. My guess is MIlano is the #1 priority of the three. I just don't see them having enough to keep Williams. If they do find enough, it'll likely be by creating new holes elsewhere, holes that will have to be filled one way or another.

Here comes the point where Buffalo MUST pay for players up front.  Allen is the franchise and they need him protected.  Felicano and Williams are a severly higher priority than Milano imo.  The linebaker not making calls is a prettt easily replaced position imo.  Milano is a good player dont get me wrong.  Buffalo is starring down a barrel of a 175 to 200 mil contract. Sacrifices are coming.  I wouldnt over pay for any of them.  They are good players and I wouldnt pay them as great.

[billsfan89]

15 hours ago, mattynh said:

Feliciano, D Williams, Milano......pick 2 of 3 or can them sign them all?  The NFL will watch the whole  season and wont go by one game....he was getting paid anyway.

 

I think they can sign them all. More than likely if the cap is set at around 195-205 million the Bills will likely have with cuts (Vernon Butler and Lee Smith) and possible restructures (John Brown, Mitch, Addison, Hughes and a few others) the Bills will likely have 45-50 million in cap space to play with, The Bills will need about 15 million of that for the rookie pool (about 6 million for 6 picks) and an emergency fund (usually about 10 million.) 

 

So that leaves the Bills with about 30-35 million to play with and I think with all of that they could just barely manage to resign D.Williams, Milano (who I think will take a one year prove it deal due to his injuries), Mongo, Roberts, and Wallace. Granted I don't think that they can do anything else besides resigning those 5 but getting a key special teams player and 4 starters back from a 10+ win team is a huge accomplishment. 

 

The team can then use the draft to fill out the remaining holes on the roster or to get younger and deeper at certain positions. This is a good team, keeping key players together is a win here.

[davefan66]

On 12/14/2020 at 3:56 PM, BearNorth said:

He was taking Watt wide and deep most of the night, not many players in this league have done that over the past four years.  Watt barely got close to Josh.

 

Yes, he had a really good game and handled Watt.

 

In this league, you need the whole package to play tackle.  Relying on arm length and strength aren’t going to get you through a 10 year career.  Need quick feet to be able to move in space, have to be able to readjust quickly to faster defensive lineman.   Good edge rushers and defense coordinators will figure that out after having more film on him.

 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Feliciano and Williams are must sign, we have spent money on dud O-lineman in the past, now we need to spend money on guys that we know are good players. These are the 2 guys that you want to protect your 40mil a year QB. 

[syhuang]

 

[billsfan89]

On 12/14/2020 at 6:01 PM, Victory Formation said:

My friend, I think not only can we cut Morse next year but we should. There is an out in his contract, a $2M cap hit and $9M in savings. Sign Feliciano to a 3yr $21M dollar deal and plug him in at center. Take that extra $2M from cutting Morse and put it towards a Daryl Williams extension. Find a true road grading guard to put in on that right side and we should see Singletary and Moss put up some decent numbers. Pray Ford comes along.

 

Where are you going to find this road grading guard? Either you are going to have to pay 6+ million on a free agent for a more proven option, spend a high draft pick or go with a cheaper less proven option. I would rather restructure Mitch's deal to try and save 3-5 million and then use that money to help with resigning Mongo and D.Williams as opposed to cutting him and leaving a hole that is going to take other resources to fill. I also think Mitch is vastly underrated at center, Mongo might be a better run blocker (although I would rate Mitch's run blocking as average at worst) but Mitch is a tremendous pass blocker much better than Mongo in that respect. 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

On 12/16/2020 at 12:17 AM, billsfan89 said:

 

I think they can sign them all. More than likely if the cap is set at around 195-205 million the Bills will likely have with cuts (Vernon Butler and Lee Smith) and possible restructures (John Brown, Mitch, Addison, Hughes and a few others) the Bills will likely have 45-50 million in cap space to play with, The Bills will need about 15 million of that for the rookie pool (about 6 million for 6 picks) and an emergency fund (usually about 10 million.) 

 

So that leaves the Bills with about 30-35 million to play with and I think with all of that they could just barely manage to resign D.Williams, Milano (who I think will take a one year prove it deal due to his injuries), Mongo, Roberts, and Wallace. Granted I don't think that they can do anything else besides resigning those 5 but getting a key special teams player and 4 starters back from a 10+ win team is a huge accomplishment. 

 

The team can then use the draft to fill out the remaining holes on the roster or to get younger and deeper at certain positions. This is a good team, keeping key players together is a win here.

I don't get why Matt would do that, at least not with the Bills. We know who he is and what he's worth. He might sign a one year deal with another team, but he should get a new agent if all he can muster from the Bills is a one year contract. The contract he does get from us might have injury protections for the Bills but pretty much has to be multiple years out of principle.

 

I think we are going to see more players testing the market to see what they're worth and then deciding if the Bills offer is worth it. It's the game that has to be played because of the cap. I don't think we really wanted to keep Lawson or Phillips last year but I think we will put a better effort to try and keep as many as these three as possible. 

[NewEra]

I can see Josh having an effect on these guys coming back for maybe a little bit less money

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I can see Josh having an effect on these guys coming back for maybe a little bit less money

 

To do that, he'll have to settle for less money on his extension.

[NewEra]

34 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

To do that, he'll have to settle for less money on his extension.

I think he will.  What is the market value on this guy?  If he hit the open market, I think a team would offer him over 50 mill a year.  Crazy as that sounds,  guys like him don’t hit the open market.  If a guy like him did, someone would way overpay imo.  I’m hoping we get him under 40 mill per.  

[GunnerBill]

25 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I think he will.  What is the market value on this guy?  If he hit the open market, I think a team would offer him over 50 mill a year.  Crazy as that sounds,  guys like him don’t hit the open market.  If a guy like him did, someone would way overpay imo.  I’m hoping we get him under 40 mill per.  

 

At the moment I think under 40 per is about right. Comparing against the open market is a pure theoretical. Top end QBs never hit it. 

 

I have said it before but the Bills open between Russ $35m per and Deshaun $39m per. Josh's side open between Deshaun $39m per and Pat $45m per. He ends up somewhere around Watson's deal. Obviously if we go to the Superbowl this year it ups the price.

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

At the moment I think under 40 per is about right. Comparing against the open market is a pure theoretical. Top end QBs never hit it. 

 

I have said it before but the Bills open between Russ $35m per and Deshaun $39m per. Josh's side open between Deshaun $39m per and Pat $45m per. He ends up somewhere around Watson's deal. Obviously if we go to the Superbowl this year it ups the price.

👍🏻 Hopefully he’s a sweetheart and takes 35

[Victory Formation]

36 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I think he will.  What is the market value on this guy?  If he hit the open market, I think a team would offer him over 50 mill a year.  Crazy as that sounds,  guys like him don’t hit the open market.  If a guy like him did, someone would way overpay imo.  I’m hoping we get him under 40 mill per.  

Absolutely.. He would absolutely get $50M on the open market.. Full agreement that players like Josh  don’t hit the open market.. I’m hoping that we can offer him more guaranteed money for less of an overall cap hit.. 

 

5yrs $186M with $125M in guaranteed money.

[Mat68]

On 12/16/2020 at 12:17 AM, billsfan89 said:

 

I think they can sign them all. More than likely if the cap is set at around 195-205 million the Bills will likely have with cuts (Vernon Butler and Lee Smith) and possible restructures (John Brown, Mitch, Addison, Hughes and a few others) the Bills will likely have 45-50 million in cap space to play with, The Bills will need about 15 million of that for the rookie pool (about 6 million for 6 picks) and an emergency fund (usually about 10 million.) 

 

So that leaves the Bills with about 30-35 million to play with and I think with all of that they could just barely manage to resign D.Williams, Milano (who I think will take a one year prove it deal due to his injuries), Mongo, Roberts, and Wallace. Granted I don't think that they can do anything else besides resigning those 5 but getting a key special teams player and 4 starters back from a 10+ win team is a huge accomplishment. 

 

The team can then use the draft to fill out the remaining holes on the roster or to get younger and deeper at certain positions. This is a good team, keeping key players together is a win here.

Idk about Butler.  He looks like the only guy getting constant penetration.  But overall, yes its possible to resign all three.  I feel like I differ from most on the value of Milano.  I feel like he is a good rb.  You dont over pay, and he could be replaced in multiple ways.

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

I don't get why Matt would do that, at least not with the Bills. We know who he is and what he's worth. He might sign a one year deal with another team, but he should get a new agent if all he can muster from the Bills is a one year contract. The contract he does get from us might have injury protections for the Bills but pretty much has to be multiple years out of principle.

 

I think we are going to see more players testing the market to see what they're worth and then deciding if the Bills offer is worth it. It's the game that has to be played because of the cap. I don't think we really wanted to keep Lawson or Phillips last year but I think we will put a better effort to try and keep as many as these three as possible. 

 

He is coming off of a season where he will at best have missed 6 games and has missed games the previous two seasons. With all teams in a cap crunch he might be best off trying to hit free agency again in 2022.

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

Idk about Butler.  He looks like the only guy getting constant penetration.  But overall, yes its possible to resign all three.  I feel like I differ from most on the value of Milano.  I feel like he is a good rb.  You dont over pay, and he could be replaced in multiple ways.

 

Butler really impressed me in the Steelers game. But he has been pretty invisible before that to me. I wouldn't hate restructuring his deal if he finishes strong but he is on the chopping block due to Star coming back. 

[ganesh]

On 12/15/2020 at 7:31 AM, Victory Formation said:

My friend, I think not only can we cut Morse next year but we should. There is an out in his contract, a $2M cap hit and $9M in savings. Sign Feliciano to a 3yr $21M dollar deal and plug him in at center. Take that extra $2M from cutting Morse and put it towards a Daryl Williams extension. Find a true road grading guard to put in on that right side and we should see Singletary and Moss put up some decent numbers. Pray Ford comes along.

Wouldn't you rather retain the line (by restructuring Morse's contract) instead of finding another road grading guard (assume you mean FA) and pay for him and Feliciano.

 

The Bills are going to keep the OL intact with the savings from Morse restructure and letting Kroft go.  They will invest in the TE position with a high pick in the draft along with a CB. 

 

 

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

Wouldn't you rather retain the line (by restructuring Morse's contract) instead of finding another road grading guard (assume you mean FA) and pay for him and Feliciano.

 

The Bills are going to keep the OL intact with the savings from Morse restructure and letting Kroft go.  They will invest in the TE position with a high pick in the draft along with a CB. 

 

 

Wonder if Morse will stay healthy.. one more concussion and it could be it for him..

[below]

How many teams can you name with TWO OT's signed for multiple years at 10-15 million per year?

 

With Dawkins signed it's probably not realistic to keep Williams. Even if we squeezed him under the cap next year the contract would hurt us down the road.

 

We are probably looking at Ford, Bates, or a high draft pick at RT next year.

[GETTOTHE50]

You’ve always gotta be a lil cautious when someone performs at a high level during their contract year. 

[machine gun kelly]

I think they’ll figure a way to keep Williams.  If Morse restructures as was stated above, and Kroft goes, certainly Murphy will go, and possibly one other defensive lineman as Star will be back, then they may find $ for Williams.  An intact O Line is excellent for Allen.  We may lose Hughes as well if he doesn’t take a much lower contract.  He probably will as he knows he’ll be 32, he never is out, amd he is still functioning well.  There is just so much he does beyond sacks.

[Doc]

4 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

You’ve always gotta be a lil cautious when someone performs at a high level during their contract year. 

True. But he was 2nd team All-Pro in 2017, his 3rd season, with the Panthers. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

4 hours ago, below said:

How many teams can you name with TWO OT's signed for multiple years at 10-15 million per year?

 

With Dawkins signed it's probably not realistic to keep Williams. Even if we squeezed him under the cap next year the contract would hurt us down the road.

 

We are probably looking at Ford, Bates, or a high draft pick at RT next year.

 

Can we squeeze him in under the franchise tag? Not yet committing long-term.

[appoo]

Regarding Allen....

 

you extend him this offseason

 

He’s trending towards 2nd highest paid player in the league behind Mahomes. He’s 24, shown an incredible work ethic, shown incredible talent, shown he can be hugely effective as a pure pocket passer, shown that he doesn’t need an elite OLine or even a running game to be effective, and finally he’s hugely charismatic and a leader that his teammates love.

Mahomes is at $45M per year. Watson is at $39M per year, I think Josh is between those two guys at $42M. 
 

8 years, 336M extension, starting in 2022

 

35M signing bonus. 4.5M cap hit 

 

Pay him about 20M each in year 1 and 2 of the extension. Then about 45M per year for the final 6 when the Cap is past pandemic impact.

Would mean that Allen’s cap hit wouldnt go higher than 25M until 2025