Diggs proves the trade skeptics wrong

[HOUSE]

I miss chris hogan

[dma0034]

7 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

It’s very clear you don’t understand the whole situation, and that we have better options than just throwing it to Diggs on every play. You don’t understand how valuable it is to be able to lean on more than just one player. What’s Minnesota’s record by the way?

 

I really don't understand why anyone thinks throwing Minnesota's record out there is something! He's won them more games than Diggs has won Buffalo. 

 

Ask Vikings fans:

http://www.vikingsmessageboard.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38009

 

 

Diggs has more targets and catches but Jefferson has more TDs and yardage. Vikings are run first. Bills are pass first. Jefferson and Allen could have been the best QB-WR for the next decade. Lets make sure we bump this thread in a year or two and see how everyone is feeling. 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

 

Beasley has more yards and catches than Theilen. This isn't including John Brown. 

 

It's very clear many of you haven't watched Justin Jefferson play. 

 

I've watched him play. The kid is balling. I was not high on him coming out because I questioned if he could play outside and while I knew he could play the slot and be really good there I don't think that is ever worth a first round pick. I was wrong the kid can play outside and while he is still an incredible route runner from the slot, his speed and change of direction skills are such that he has been more than capable outside.

 

Where I disagree with you is the Bills being 9-3 with Diggs not because of him. I would argue after Josh Allen no other player is as big of a reason for why the Bills are 9-3 than Stefon Diggs. The reason Beasley is having a career year? Because teams are finding it hard to cover him with Diggs on the field. He doesn't just impact the Bills offense when he catches the ball. Stef impacts our offense every snap. Teams defend us differently. They play less man than teams did last year, in zone coverage they are playing soft to one side of the field because of Diggs.... he has made a huge difference. And while Jefferson might have got to that point, likely even got there quickly (he is now the past three weeks getting what Diggs got in Minnesota - drawing the doubles while teams leave Thielen 1v1) he would not have commanded that respect from the moment he stepped on the field week 1 in the way Stefon Diggs did.

 

It isn't hating on Jefferson, I was wrong on him, I have already waved that white flag... he'd have been a fine use of the 22nd pick... but for what the Bills needed at this stage for the development of the team and Josh Allen now.... I'd still do that trade.

[Ya Digg?]

10 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

 

I really don't understand why anyone thinks throwing Minnesota's record out there is something! He's won them more games than Diggs has won Buffalo. 

 

Ask Vikings fans:

http://www.vikingsmessageboard.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38009

 

 

Diggs has more targets and catches but Jefferson has more TDs and yardage. Vikings are run first. Bills are pass first. Jefferson and Allen could have been the best QB-WR for the next decade. Lets make sure we bump this thread in a year or two and see how everyone is feeling. 

This is a trade that has worked out for both sides - Jefferson has played really well in Minnesota, but right now it's still hard to make a comparison in my opinion.  Diggs has been the focal point since day one here.  Jefferson has not faced many double teams until very recently.  Diggs has been getting the other team's top corner more often than Jefferson.  You can't deny that Diggs ability (along with Allen's improvement) has completely changed the offense here.  

 

I'm confused by your statement saying Jefferson has won more games than Diggs though

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

1 hour ago, dma0034 said:

They are two different types of receivers but Justin Jefferson is going to be a better WR than Diggs and may already be. Contract is better for 5 year. So I don't really know if it silences the trade skeptics honestly.

This may end up being true but the draft is uncertain and it's unclear whether Jefferson would be there, would the Bills pick him, and would Jefferson end up being as good as he has so far. I think the point is just that the Bills determined they were in Win-Now mode and the certainty that they would get a top 5 receiver this year was MUCH higher getting Diggs than seeing who they get in the first round and whether that player works out as hoped (which is rare for a rookie WR). 

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

 Lets make sure we bump this thread in a year or two and see how everyone is feeling. 

 

But the question even then (and I'm convinced Diggs has at least 4 more years of great football left) has to be not just "who is the best player?" or "who has provided the best value for a 1st round pick with contracts included?" For it to be a serious and sensible debate even in 3 or 4 years time it has to be about "who was the better fit for where the Bills were and what they needed?" 

 

If that is the question we are asking I don't really think it matters whether we ask it today or in 4 years time. But maybe I'll be wrong. Let's see.

[DaggersEOD]

The way I see it, JJ would not have commanded the on-field respect / coverage that was absolutely key to our success at the beginning of the year.

 

We'd have had Brown and Beas at #1/2 with JJ potentially seeing the field initially as a #3. That bumps our entire WR corps up a notch (Brown on #1 CB, Beas on #2).

 

Right now JJ is the #2 WR on the team and is only now starting to draw the #1 CB.

 

Diggs always draw the majority of coverage that makes the rest of our WR corps better.  So it's not just apples to apples with SD and JJ.

 

To truly understand the impact of SD, you also have to account for his position at the top of the depth chart from the beginning of the season. This allowed the rest of the corps to compete against lesser competition.

 

IMO SD is a force multiplier:

Established Elite WR that commands special attention (#1 CB / Double coverage) the first day he stepped on the field.

Unquestioned #1 WR the day he walked into the WR room - Knocks JB and Beas down the depth chart to compete against lesser talent

Intangibles - hard worker, expects the best of everyone, high standards; no rookie walks in the door with these assets

Immediate rapport with JA - a rookie has to establish that he can compete at this level and build trust with his QB/OC before he has the opportunity to build that relationship

 

I'm sure there are other positive impacts, but the point is, he did more for this team than ANY rookie could possibly do, and while JJ MAY develop into this kind of force multiplier in the future, SD already is.

 

We knew what this team needed and we knew where to find it.  So we went and got it.

 

The Bills absolutely won in this trade.  That said the Vikings didn't lose either.

Edited December 9, 2020 by DaggersEOD

[Bronxbomber21]

53 minutes ago, Rk_Bills86 said:

Anyone that might be saying - OH we could have had Jefferson with our first round pick....

 

1) There was no way of knowing he would be there when we picked

2) There was no way of knowing he would actually be as good as he is

3) As is the case with almost all rookie WRs, he has limitations as a pro - but he has 100% taken advantage of his situation and having Cousins certainly helps (it's not like he's on the Jags/Bear/Jets where the QB situation is..... poor)

 

Trading for a proven 26 yr old and seeing immediate returns not only from his own production but what it has done to increase the production of the team makes us the overall winner. I'd also like to add.... for a rookie as our number 4 WR Davis is having a stellar season :

 

25 rec for 422 yds and 5 tds (Not exactly a slouch for rookie stats)

 

For quick comparison Jefferson is 61 rec for 1039 yds and 7 tds.... While it's not fair to do a strait extrapolation and comparison, just for fun - if we bump Davis up to 50 catches his stat line comes to 50 rec for 850 yds and 10 tds - not a fair comparison but still.

 

We got Diggs AND Davis. Frankly we're stacked.

Davis could have what 8 tds , the drop vs the Patriots the no challenge vs Raiders and penalty vs Jets

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, 27yanks said:

"I want him to be him. I don't want him to be anything else but him," Daboll said. "He's got juice, he's got fiery competitiveness, he's got swagger -- and I want him to have it because it rubs off on our team.

"He's an old throwback. He wants to grind at practice, you've got to take him out because he just wants to keep going. And if it's not right at practice, he gets hot. He's just been such a pleasure to be around."

 

 

Awesome quote.

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, DaggersEOD said:

The way I see it, JJ would not have commanded the on-field respect / coverage that was absolutely key to our success at the beginning of the year.

 

We'd have had Brown and Beas at #1/2 with JJ potentially seeing the field initially as a #3. That bumps our entire WR corps up a notch (Brown on #1 CB, Beas on #2).

 

Right now JJ is the #2 WR on the team and is only now starting to draw the #1 CB.

 

Diggs always draw the majority of coverage that makes the rest of our WR corps better.  So it's not just apples to apples with SD and JJ.

 

To truly understand the impact of SD, you also have to account for his position at the top of the depth chart from the beginning of the season. This allowed the rest of the corps to compete against lesser competition.

 

IMO SD is a force multiplier:

Established Elite WR that commands special attention (#1 CB / Double coverage) the first day he stepped on the field.

Unquestioned #1 WR the day he walked into the WR room - Knocks JB and Beas down the depth chart to compete against lesser talent

Intangibles - hard worker, expects the best of everyone, high standards; no rookie walks in the door with these assets

Immediate rapport with JA - a rookie has to establish that he can compete at this level and build trust with his QB/OC before he has the opportunity to build that relationship

 

I'm sure there are other positive impacts, but the point is, he did more for this team than ANY rookie could possibly do, and while JJ MAY develop into this kind of force multiplier in the future, SD already is.

 

We knew what this team needed and we knew where to find it.  So we went and got it.

 

The Bills absolutely won in this trade.  That said the Vikings didn't lose either.

 

Exactly this.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, dma0034 said:

They are two different types of receivers but Justin Jefferson is going to be a better WR than Diggs and may already be. Contract is better for 5 year. So I don't really know if it silences the trade skeptics honestly.

 

The one thing you're likely way understating is how much Diggs being here has helped Allen.  Jefferson never could have provided that as a rookie.  Diggs also likely had helped Davis develop too.

[Buffalo Junction]

The Diggs trade was a rare win/win for both teams. We had a young QB that needed an experience #1 WR. Minnesota needed cap space and a young weapon to replace a guy that didn’t mesh with an expensive veteran QB. Both WRs are balling out. Let’s be honest here about Diggs’ contract..... It’s damn cheap for the performance level. Particularly when you at Hopkins post trade contract.

[1ManRaid]

5 hours ago, dma0034 said:

They are two different types of receivers but Justin Jefferson is going to be a better WR than Diggs and may already be. Contract is better for 5 year. So I don't really know if it silences the trade skeptics honestly.

 

Trades are not a zero sum game, both sides can win.  That's actually the ideal outcome as it keeps teams WANTING to trade with you and it's always good to have options and could drive bidding wars to deal with you.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 hours ago, dma0034 said:

Jefferson is already very good at running routes (not as good as Diggs). He is better in the Red Zone. He is cheaper and has more potential than Diggs. I'm not saying Diggs is bad by any means I'm not. This is a rare situation where you traded for a top 10 WR and traded away the pick that went towards a WR that will probably will be a top 5 WR in 2 years (he's that talented). Jefferson is going to finish the season with: 80 catches, 1300 yards and 10 TDs.  Those are crazy numbers! Only Boldin and Moss will finish with better rookie seasons.

Its pretty difficult to compare receivers on two different teams in two completely different offensive systems I feel like.  It would be hard to call this anything but a win win for both teams.  We were closer to our window of competing and wanted an established wr...rookie wide outs usually take awhile to develop so we may have not wanted to take a risk on any of the guys available in the draft.  

[Solomon Grundy]

Hope he retires and goes into HOF as a member of the Buffalo Bills. Put his bust right next to Reed and Lofton

Edited December 9, 2020 by Solomon Grundy

[JGMcD2]

6 hours ago, dma0034 said:

They are two different types of receivers but Justin Jefferson is going to be a better WR than Diggs and may already be. Contract is better for 5 year. So I don't really know if it silences the trade skeptics honestly.

We didn’t trade Justin Jefferson, we traded the pick that became Jefferson. 
 

Who is to say we don’t trade up and CeeDee Lamb? What if they take Dugger in RD1 had they not traded for Jefferson? 
 

Jefferson is great, Jefferson wasn’t going to provide our offense what we needed. He wasn’t. 
 

It’s a win/win for both sides. Minnesota is paying a lot of money for an average QB and minimal money for a very good WR. We’re paying a lot of money for a very good WR and minimal money for a very good QB. Different teams, different situations, different needs and different trajectories. 
 

Answer this question, even if you believe Jefferson is a better receiver than Diggs... would he have been a better receiver for US than Diggs? 

[Just Joshin']

6 hours ago, dma0034 said:

They are two different types of receivers but Justin Jefferson is going to be a better WR than Diggs and may already be. Contract is better for 5 year. So I don't really know if it silences the trade skeptics honestly.

Please repost when Jefferson has sustained success.  Off to a good start but many players have one good year.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

The Bills had no way of knowing Jefferson would be available and we have no way of knowing that he would have been their pick had they been given the chance (enormously deep WR class). 

 

We traded the pick for Diggs, not Jefferson for Diggs.  Diggs was worth the pick.  You don't analyze draft pick trades by analyzing what the trade partner did with the pick unless it's an extreme case like 1st overall and there's a unanimous best player.

[DCbillsfan]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I've watched him play. The kid is balling. I was not high on him coming out because I questioned if he could play outside and while I knew he could play the slot and be really good there I don't think that is ever worth a first round pick. I was wrong the kid can play outside and while he is still an incredible route runner from the slot, his speed and change of direction skills are such that he has been more than capable outside.

 

Where I disagree with you is the Bills being 9-3 with Diggs not because of him. I would argue after Josh Allen no other player is as big of a reason for why the Bills are 9-3 than Stefon Diggs. The reason Beasley is having a career year? Because teams are finding it hard to cover him with Diggs on the field. He doesn't just impact the Bills offense when he catches the ball. Stef impacts our offense every snap. Teams defend us differently. They play less man than teams did last year, in zone coverage they are playing soft to one side of the field because of Diggs.... he has made a huge difference. And while Jefferson might have got to that point, likely even got there quickly (he is now the past three weeks getting what Diggs got in Minnesota - drawing the doubles while teams leave Thielen 1v1) he would not have commanded that respect from the moment he stepped on the field week 1 in the way Stefon Diggs did.

 

It isn't hating on Jefferson, I was wrong on him, I have already waved that white flag... he'd have been a fine use of the 22nd pick... but for what the Bills needed at this stage for the development of the team and Josh Allen now.... I'd still do that trade.

All of this.  Plus I liked Jefferson coming out of LSU.  I was actually hoping the Bills would have drafted him but they traded for Diggs instead.  I understand why.  To me, all you have to do is look at the Houston playoff game.  No way Bills lose that if they had a proven WR1.  Texans forced Allen to throw to Duke Williams because they emphasized stopping Brown and Beasley.  Williams started off well but didn't make plays later on.

[HOUSE]

Back in 1st place for WRs

https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/receiving/2020/REG/all/receivingreceptions/desc

[dma0034]

59 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Its pretty difficult to compare receivers on two different teams in two completely different offensive systems I feel like.  It would be hard to call this anything but a win win for both teams.  We were closer to our window of competing and wanted an established wr...rookie wide outs usually take awhile to develop so we may have not wanted to take a risk on any of the guys available in the draft.  

 

They aren't super unsimilar. And everyone does it: Who is the best WR in football right now? You don't say "depends on if you mean a slot receiver or a deep route" it's all or nothing. Diggs for 5 years isn't as valuable as Jefferson for 10. 

 

33 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

We didn’t trade Justin Jefferson, we traded the pick that became Jefferson. 
 

Who is to say we don’t trade up and CeeDee Lamb? What if they take Dugger in RD1 had they not traded for Jefferson? 
 

Jefferson is great, Jefferson wasn’t going to provide our offense what we needed. He wasn’t. 
 

It’s a win/win for both sides. Minnesota is paying a lot of money for an average QB and minimal money for a very good WR. We’re paying a lot of money for a very good WR and minimal money for a very good QB. Different teams, different situations, different needs and different trajectories. 
 

Answer this question, even if you believe Jefferson is a better receiver than Diggs... would he have been a better receiver for US than Diggs? 

 

Yeah yeah, we also didn't trade Mahomes we traded the pick that became Mahomes. The pick was used to select Jefferson so that's the argument. 

 

Do I think Jefferson would be a better receiver? Yes, I do. Vikings gave him limited snaps in the first two weeks. Bills have thrown 428 times this year; Vikings 363. And yet Jefferson has put up similar yardage. He is their #1 WR

 

 

32 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

Please repost when Jefferson has sustained success.  Off to a good start but many players have one good year.

 

Dumb. This is his rookie season and he will put up a better season that Diggs has ever had in terms of stats. This is the Steven A. Smith award for "he's unproven and therefore not great". Guess Allen sucks because he hasn't won a playoff game?

 

30 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

The Bills had no way of knowing Jefferson would be available and we have no way of knowing that he would have been their pick had they been given the chance (enormously deep WR class). 

 

We traded the pick for Diggs, not Jefferson for Diggs.  Diggs was worth the pick.  You don't analyze draft pick trades by analyzing what the trade partner did with the pick unless it's an extreme case like 1st overall and there's a unanimous best player.

 

That is a fair point. 

 

5 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

The one thing you're likely way understating is how much Diggs being here has helped Allen.  Jefferson never could have provided that as a rookie.  Diggs also likely had helped Davis develop too.

 

Very good point. No doubt that Diggs has more knowledge and has contributed to Josh's growth. What you aren't stating is how Jefferson is 5 years younger. He could be a difference make for 10 years. Diggs is probably 5. I don't want short term success. I want long term success. 

[JaCrispy]

7 hours ago, 27yanks said:

"I want him to be him. I don't want him to be anything else but him," Daboll said. "He's got juice, he's got fiery competitiveness, he's got swagger -- and I want him to have it because it rubs off on our team.

"He's an old throwback. He wants to grind at practice, you've got to take him out because he just wants to keep going. And if it's not right at practice, he gets hot. He's just been such a pleasure to be around."

This is a fantastic quote...thanks for sharing...👍

[JGMcD2]

7 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

 

They aren't super unsimilar. And everyone does it: Who is the best WR in football right now? You don't say "depends on if you mean a slot receiver or a deep route" it's all or nothing. Diggs for 5 years isn't as valuable as Jefferson for 10. 

 

 

Yeah yeah, we also didn't trade Mahomes we traded the pick that became Mahomes. The pick was used to select Jefferson so that's the argument. 

 

Do I think Jefferson would be a better receiver? Yes, I do. Vikings gave him limited snaps in the first two weeks. Bills have thrown 428 times this year; Vikings 363. And yet Jefferson has put up similar yardage. He is their #1 WR

 

 

 

Dumb. This is his rookie season and he will put up a better season that Diggs has ever had in terms of stats. This is the Steven A. Smith award for "he's unproven and therefore not great". Guess Allen sucks because he hasn't won a playoff game?

 

 

That is a fair point. 

 

 

Very good point. No doubt that Diggs has more knowledge and has contributed to Josh's growth. What you aren't stating is how Jefferson is 5 years younger. He could be a difference make for 10 years. Diggs is probably 5. I don't want short term success. I want long term success. 

Wait a minute... I said the same thing as @SageAgainstTheMachine and his point was fair and mine wasn’t? Way to conveniently contradict yourself in the same post... 
 

You also didn’t answer my question... do you think Justin Jefferson would provide for our offense what Stefon Diggs has? You know, like the things that can’t be quantified? 
 

I didn’t ask if you thought he was better, that’s been established. 
 

EDIT: Which now I see that you answer my question in response to someone else and admit that Diggs has provided things that Jefferson wouldn’t have been able to this season. 
 

Edited December 9, 2020 by JGMcD2

[dma0034]

2 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Wait a minute... I said the same thing as @SageAgainstTheMachine and his point was fair and mine wasn’t? Way to conveniently contradict yourself in the same post... 
 

You also didn’t answer my question... do you think Justin Jefferson would provide for our offense what Stefon Diggs has? You know, like the things that can’t be quantified? 
 

I didn’t ask if you thought he was better, that’s been established. 

 

I did answer that. 100% he would.

[JGMcD2]

11 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

 

I did answer that. 100% he would.

But you also contradict yourself and say that Diggs has provided things that have helped Josh grow this season that need to be taken into account...you’re hopping between arguments there... unless you think that Jefferson would provide a veteran presence that’s helped Josh grow? You contradict yourself twice in the same post responding to me and then in subsequent responses to other posters. 

 

If your argument is that Jefferson is going to be around longer because he’s younger, that’s fine. I mean that’s not being argued... he’s younger than Diggs so I’d expect him to play a little longer... 
 

The sustained success comment you made doesn’t make a ton of sense, really, Diggs is controlled for the same amount of time as Jefferson. We’d then have to provide an extension to retain either player’s services beyond that point... what if he signs a contract with another team? Does that contribute to sustained success? 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by JGMcD2

[dma0034]

3 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

But you also contradict yourself and say that Diggs has provided things that have helped Josh grow this season that need to be taken into account...you’re hopping between arguments there... unless you think that Jefferson would provide a veteran presence that’s helped Josh grow? 

 

If your argument is that Jefferson is going to be around longer because he’s younger, that’s fine. I mean that’s not being argued... he’s younger than Diggs so I’d expect him to play a little longer... 
 

 

The sustained success comment you made doesn’t make a ton of sense, really, Diggs is controlled for the same amount of time as Jefferson. We’d then have to provide an extension to retain either player’s services beyond that point... what if he signs a contract with another team? Does that contribute to sustained success? 

 

 

 

 

I don't really think the Bills needed a veteran presence. They have Beasley and Brown as WRs... you think Diggs provides a veteran presence with that group? He helps Josh because Josh is looks for him often on 3rd down (especially with no John Brown)

 

Jefferson is controlled longer than Diggs because of age. Jefferson will get another contract with the Vikings (or they'll franchise tag him). Diggs isn't getting a Franchise tag at 31 and even if he did he isn't going to get a long term extension like Jefferson. Let's not pretend that Diggs is going to play until he is 38 at a high level

 

[27yanks]

7 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Yah, anyone who thinks Buffalo gave up to much on this trade, or thought Diggs would not fit in and grow with this team is an idiot. 
 

Go Bills!!!

Dude swing by Ne and pick me up!!!

Just now, 27yanks said:

Dude swing by Ne and pick me up!!!

🌴🌴🌴🌴

[JGMcD2]

19 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

 

 

I don't really think the Bills needed a veteran presence. They have Beasley and Brown as WRs... you think Diggs provides a veteran presence with that group? He helps Josh because Josh is looks for him often on 3rd down (especially with no John Brown)

 

Jefferson is controlled longer than Diggs because of age. Jefferson will get another contract with the Vikings (or they'll franchise tag him). Diggs isn't getting a Franchise tag at 31 and even if he did he isn't going to get a long term extension like Jefferson. Let's not pretend that Diggs is going to play until he is 38 at a high level

 

Diggs has done more to help Josh other than Josh looking for him on third downs... come on... is that really all you believe he’s provided Josh? 
 

I don’t think you understand what control is. Control is how long a player is under contract.  Jefferson isn’t controlled longer than Diggs... he’s just younger than Diggs. Both of their contracts run out in 2023. Therefore neither are controlled past that year. 
 

You have fundamentally botched the very definition of what control is and anything else you’re providing about a franchise tag or extension is purely speculation and not actual control over either player. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by JGMcD2

[dma0034]

2 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Diggs has done more to help Josh other than Josh looking for him on third downs... come on... is that really all you believe he’s provided Josh? 
 

I don’t think you understand what control is. Control is how long a player is under contract.  Jefferson isn’t controlled longer than Diggs... he’s just younger than Diggs. Both of their contracts run out in 2023. Therefore neither are controlled past that year. 
 

You have fundamentally botched the very definition of what control is and anything else you’re providing about a franchise tag or extension is purely speculation and not actual control over either player. 

 

I'm not saying the Vikings have complete control. I'm saying they are more likely to sign Jefferson than the Bills are to signing Diggs. You keep trying to make points as a way to counter me.... they don't. You aren't taking into age. You keep acting like Jefferson is going to walk away and the Vikings will after 5 years (remember Vikings get 5th year option). Also Diggs is only signed for 4 years so once again: you're wrong.

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Trade skeptics were mostly with regard and in comparison to what Buffalo fave up compared to Arizona for Hopkins. Everyone feels Hopkins is a better WR and the trade value given up by Arizona was far less.

But in the end that doesn't much matter.  Diggs appears to be well worth the 1st  round pick.

[JGMcD2]

Just now, dma0034 said:

 

I'm not saying the Vikings have complete control. I'm saying they are more likely to sign Jefferson than the Bills are to signing Diggs. You keep trying to make points as a way to counter me.... they don't. You aren't taking into age. You keep acting like Jefferson is going to walk away and the Vikings will after 5 years (remember Vikings get 5th year option). Also Diggs is only signed for 4 years so once again: you're wrong.

 

 

I’ve acknowledged the age point numerous times, it doesn’t guarantee the Vikings will control him longer... it just means it’s more likely he will play longer than Diggs. I’m not acting like he’s going to walk away or they won’t extend him... literally nobody knows what is going to happen with Jefferson beyond 2023... it’s speculation. The facts are that they’re both controlled through 2023... it’s indisputable. 
 

Well then they don’t have control... they just are more likely to sign him to extension. That’s not remotely the same thing. 
 

I understand they have a 5th year option... that’s not guaranteed... it’s exactly what it sounds like... an option. It’s not a guarantee... it’s an option. 
 

Once again, I’m wrong? The only one who’s been wrong is you... you have and continue to misdefine the word control in the context of sports. 

[dma0034]

Just now, JGMcD2 said:

I’ve acknowledged the age point numerous times, it doesn’t guarantee the Vikings will control him longer... it just means it’s more likely he will play longer than Diggs. I’m not acting like he’s going to walk away or they won’t extend him... literally nobody knows what is going to happen with Jefferson beyond 2023... it’s speculation. The facts are that they’re both controlled through 2023... it’s indisputable. 
 

Well then they don’t have control... they just are more likely to sign him to extension. That’s not remotely the same thing. 
 

I understand they have a 5th year option... that’s not guaranteed... it’s exactly what it sounds like... an option. It’s not a guarantee... it’s an option. 
 

Once again, I’m wrong? The only one who’s been wrong is you... you have and continue to misdefine the word control in the context of sports. 

 

 

It's an option for the team...... that means Team Control. Teams leverage the franchise tag into signing players long term. SO after 5 years when Jefferson is 26 the team will leverage the franchise tag and have him sign for probably between 4-6 years. After 4 years Diggs will be 30; it is less likely the Bills will sign him to a longer term deal; if anything they'll use a franchise tag maybe once due to age or sign him to a shorter deal. This isn't even like a prediction; it's what 99% of the clubs with franchise players do. The only thing that gets in the way of that imo is injury which I'm not going to include in this conversation for either Diggs or Jefferson. 

[JGMcD2]

1 minute ago, dma0034 said:

 

 

It's an option for the team...... that means Team Control. Teams leverage the franchise tag into signing players long term. SO after 5 years when Jefferson is 26 the team will leverage the franchise tag and have him sign for probably between 4-6 years. After 4 years Diggs will be 30; it is less likely the Bills will sign him to a longer term deal; if anything they'll use a franchise tag maybe once due to age or sign him to a shorter deal. This isn't even like a prediction; it's what 99% of the clubs with franchise players do. The only thing that gets in the way of that imo is injury which I'm not going to include in this conversation for either Diggs or Jefferson. 

Well you said control the entire time... not team control, again something different. Syntax matters. 
 

There are plenty of things that get in the way of Jefferson remaining with the Vikings... Jefferson not continuing to produce at the level he’s producing at? Or Jefferson signing with another team in FA? Or Jefferson being traded away? 
 

That’s speculation, so like you, I won’t get into it. But injury is not the only thing that gets in the way of that. Diggs is literally an example of what you’re describing happening with Jefferson and he didn’t see the end of this contract with Minnesota. 

[Don Otreply]

44 minutes ago, 27yanks said:

Dude swing by Ne and pick me up!!!

🌴🌴🌴🌴

Way to cold up there, headed farther south in the am, 😁

[Steptide]

All I know is I'm thankful the bills avoided the Antonio brown trade. What a disaster that would've been, and who knows how it would've impacted Allen or the rest of the team 

[jlgarsh]

8 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Stanky I don't know about your physical skills, but I do know mine and I swear to you that when I watch him on some plays he makes other professionals whose job it is to cover him look like me in trying to do it.  

 

It's like slow motion.

 

It's like they are standing still and maybe they have never stepped on a football field before that play.

 

Really.  Really it is.  

 

For those of you who don't already know what we are talking about, go look at some of the tape.  

Diggs has the best footwork i think I've ever seen. His ability to get 2 feet down on any sideline/ending is unreal. He's elevated his teammates as well. Beasley has taken his game up to another level this year.

[jlgarsh]

2 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Back in 1st place for WRs

https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/receiving/2020/REG/all/receivingreceptions/desc

Still 4 games left. Does Moulds have the Bills single season record?

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I still support the decision to make the trade.............but Minnesota got rid of a player who was at odds with the fully guaranteed-contract-QB,  they saved like $50M in salary and got a player who looks like he's already as good or better.    More yards, A TON more yards per catch and more TD's.  

 

No guarantee who Beane would have picked had he maintained the selection.........he after all had foolishly passed on the likes of AJ Brown, DK Metcalf and Terry McLaurin in favor of Cody Ford.   But had they gotten Jefferson I don't think there is any evidence that they'd be any worse off as a team this season.   That dude is a game breaker.

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, dma0034 said:

Very good point. No doubt that Diggs has more knowledge and has contributed to Josh's growth. What you aren't stating is how Jefferson is 5 years younger. He could be a difference make for 10 years. Diggs is probably 5. I don't want short term success. I want long term success. 

 

Long term success like Hopkins with Texans, or OBJ with Giants, or Sammy in Buffalo?  If you can get five years success out of almost any player these days you're doing good.  To much can change to quickly to worry about ten years out.  Recall maybe 4 or 5 years back all the talk about how Dallas would have the best O-line for the next ten years or so, how's that working? 

 

The one exception being QB IF you do find a good one, try and do everything to hang on, but that's often at the demise of affording other players.  Even that's tricky, look at Tannerhill in Miami.  Allen, Mahomes, maybe Murrey to be able to afford then, if/once they become top talent, you can't afford the #1 WR's and others, instead you need to keep drafting new ones on rookie contracts.  Look at all the churn in Green Bay WR group over the years.  Overall you need a ten year plan, but best to keep as few actual names in it as you can so not really thinking about what Jefferson can give you ten years from now.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Back in 1st place for WRs

https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/receiving/2020/REG/all/receivingreceptions/desc

 

 

First in catches.............tied for 75th in yards per catch.

 

Allen was amazing against SF but they need Brown back so they can get Diggs some room to run his routes past the sticks like he did in the first month of the season.  

 

That would stop the prevalence of the 7-8 yard grabs with zero RAC that have putting them in too many unnecessary 3rd and 4th down situations.   In the meantime learning to turn and get low and dive for the line to go after those shorties like Beasley does would be helpful.