Sean McDermott is the 2nd Best Coach in Bills History

[Billsfan1972]

5 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

I'm not saying the Pats weren't good obviously they had a great run. Playing in the AFCE they were guaranteed to win the division and get the #1 or #2 seed in the AFC. They basically drove over the Bills, Jets, Dolphins like they were little speed bumps a combined 6 times. They were basically gifted 5 or 6 wins every year. It wasn't that hard for them to get 12 or 13 wins. You give Belichick 2 weeks to prepare for opponent he would never lose as NE never had to play WC weekend.  Again the Pats were very good but they were almost automatic to be in the AFC championship every year. Its not like the AFCN where Pitt and Bal would kick the crap out of each other fighting for the division.

And you are right, but as I've pointed out McD 2017-19 25-23, Marrone/Ryan 2014-16 24-24.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

I'm not saying the Pats weren't good obviously they had a great run. Playing in the AFCE they were guaranteed to win the division and get the #1 or #2 seed in the AFC. They basically drove over the Bills, Jets, Dolphins like they were little speed bumps a combined 6 times. They were basically gifted 5 or 6 wins every year. It wasn't that hard for them to get 12 or 13 wins. You give Belichick 2 weeks to prepare for opponent he would never lose as NE never had to play WC weekend.  Again the Pats were very good but they were almost automatic to be in the AFC championship every year. Its not like the AFCN where Pitt and Bal would kick the crap out of each other fighting for the division.

 

Brady splits across divisions over his career.  I don't feel like taking out 2020 so...

 

Value	G	W	L
AFC East	108	86	22
AFC Central	1	1	0
AFC North	35	28	7
AFC South	34	26	8
AFC West	38	25	13
NFC East	20	17	3
NFC Central	1	0	1
NFC North	22	18	4
NFC South	18	13	5
NFC West	15	10	5

[teef]

7 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And you are right, but as I've pointed out McD 2017-19 25-23, Marrone/Ryan 2014-16 24-24.

this is an incredibly child like way to view their success as a coach.    would you rather have mcd or marrone/ryan?

 

(i'm not advocating that he's the second best coach in team history.  just commenting on the things you feel are important)

[auburnbillsbacker]

11 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Wade Phillips was dogmeat, Lou Saban sucked, clearly.

Yep.  Wade Phillips took over for 2 Hall of Fame coaches and won more games the year after.  More than Levy.  More than Parcells.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

1.Knox

2.Saban

3.Levy

4.Phillips

5.McDermott

6.Marrone

 

Right now he is closing in on Phillips, but not there yet, IMO.

 

Phillips really lacked the attention to detail to be a stud HC.......but he was also a "take what I have and make it work.....and build my schemes around the talent" coach......which is extremely valuable.

 

McDermott totally botched his first OC hire and he doesn't adapt his defensive scheme to his players.......he has to have HIS players.   That has lead to them creating unbelievable dead money to clear the decks and then pretty much spending it all again and still not having nailed it.   He is 0-6 versus his top rival and his record versus winning teams is atrocious.......so obviously he is this close to the top because this list kinda' sucks.

 

The Bills have never won a SB of course but they haven't even employed a HC who would go on to win a SB elsewhere as a HC.

 

That said McDermott is so far more organized than Phillips it's not funny.   With the pandemic limiting workouts the Bills are having more injury issues this year but prior to that he had really turned the strength and conditioning department into a huge advantage.   Wade Phillips was totally slack on this and his teams were constantly nagged by soft tissue injuries.

 

I have to agree with this, reluctantly because I want to believe in McD.

 

It's almost as though if you somehow could merge Phillips and McDermott, you could have a great HC.

 

As I understand it, in theory, McD's defensive scheme not supposed to depend upon great players.  It's supposed to depend upon capable players Doing their Job and be relatively plug-n-play.  But apparently the job they have to do is sufficiently demanding mentally that it takes special guys to do it and still play fast and instinctively enough to win in the NFL, especially at linebacker.  And apparently some veteran pro linebackers just can't figure it out (I'm looking at you, AJ Klein)

 

I wonder sometimes if Frazier is too....easy-going? laid-back? to really drill the defense and get them prepared for the week.  We heard last week about the intensity of practices and preparation, and the D played better, especially in the 2nd half.  So why weren't those practices and preparation super-intense coming out of the Rams game when it was clear the D laid an egg, and certainly going into the Titans and KC?  Puzzling.

[uticaclub]

46 minutes ago, teef said:

this is an incredibly child like way to view their success as a coach.    would you rather have mcd or marrone/ryan?

 

(i'm not advocating that he's the second best coach in team history.  just commenting on the things you feel are important)

So you only like the stats that support your viewpoint?

[teef]

1 minute ago, uticaclub said:

So you only like the stats that support your viewpoint?

do you not understand why just showing records is not a good comparison?  i bet you don't.

 

so...answer the question.  which coach would you rather have out of those 3 listed, and explain why.

[uticaclub]

1 minute ago, teef said:

do you not understand why just showing records is not a good comparison?  i bet you don't.

 

so...answer the question.  which coach would you rather have out of those 3 listed, and explain why.

A call here or a bounce there and 2015 or 2016 could have easily been 2017. McDermott's been the best, but I want better. This is like a tallest midget contest. 

[TN Bills Fan]

Lou Saban turned the franchise around twice and won championships. Levy took them to four Super Bowls.  McDermott has never even won a playoff game.  Not even in the conversation as yet.  

[BADOLBILZ]

41 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I have to agree with this, reluctantly because I want to believe in McD.

 

It's almost as though if you somehow could merge Phillips and McDermott, you could have a great HC.

 

As I understand it, in theory, McD's defensive scheme not supposed to depend upon great players.  It's supposed to depend upon capable players Doing their Job and be relatively plug-n-play.  But apparently the job they have to do is sufficiently demanding mentally that it takes special guys to do it and still play fast and instinctively enough to win in the NFL, especially at linebacker.  And apparently some veteran pro linebackers just can't figure it out (I'm looking at you, AJ Klein)

 

I wonder sometimes if Frazier is too....easy-going? laid-back? to really drill the defense and get them prepared for the week.  We heard last week about the intensity of practices and preparation, and the D played better, especially in the 2nd half.  So why weren't those practices and preparation super-intense coming out of the Rams game when it was clear the D laid an egg, and certainly going into the Titans and KC?  Puzzling.

 

 

Rex Ryan's defense was sold as not needing studs except for at CB.    But as you mentioned with McD's defense.........you still needed certain types of guys.   The Bills didn't have a Jim Leonhard to run Ryan's D.   The current Bills don't have a Luke Kuechly.    

 

People might hate to hear it.......but now that the Bills are near contender status the weaker side of the ball is the one McD specializes in...........not unlike what happened with Rex.

 

Obviously Rex was a total turd but the point being that flexible coaches have a better chance to succeed in the long term.     

 

When McD came in he turned a top 10 scoring offense inside out for a scheme specific coach with a very different approach in Rick Dennison.   By contrast, whenWade took over he hired Joe Pendry..........who was unspectacular at prior stops(as was Dennison) but a much more versatile football coach who then changed the offense to fit the players he had.

 

The nice thing about McD is that I wouldn't put it past him to learn that maybe he could use a change in defensive philosophy and go to school on it.   At least he has shown a willingness to adapt.   Rex did not.   And Wade was very stubborn about his shortcomings too........they were just more related to his preparation of the team and his sideline work.   

[billykay]

12 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I think that’s on Marv, but also on largely on Jimbo. (Also unpopular.) He refused to take what they were giving him. He fell into the trap. If Thurman has 10 more runs he’s the MVP and he has a Super Bowl ring. Heck, he should have been the MVP anyway!  Jim was making those calls. It was great when it worked, but he need to be reined in when he got carried away. That didn’t happen. 

 

Ultimately, the HC has to make it happen. Love Marv, that was a fail.  

 

As to ranking coaches, that’s impossible after only a few years. History will give us a better vision, though still fuzzy. 

 

 

.

SB 25 was on the D. The offense scored around a point a minute.

[Artem Lipatov]

4 consecutive Super Bowls  vs 2 playoffs lost games. 🤔 McD is best Bills coach in 21st century, but he must deserve to be compared with HOFer Levy. So far achievements are not even close

[KD in CA]

I love when "Bills history" starts in 1988 (or 2000).

[teef]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

A call here or a bounce there and 2015 or 2016 could have easily been 2017. McDermott's been the best, but I want better. This is like a tallest midget contest. 

set that bar bro.  strive for excellence.

[dave mcbride]

Levy was the best, I think. Was he perfect? No. But I think people seriously underestimate the importance of managing personalities in team sports like the NFL. That was a team that always had the potential to implode because of the personalities on it, but he kept it all together and got them to the playoffs 8 out of 9 years. And people forget that the Bills actually had a terrific game plan in the final Super Bowl. The problem was crazy plays (turnovers) and talent winning out in the end. People talking up Knox ( @BADOLBILZ ) seem to forget that he didn't lose Super Bowls because his unimaginative approach to coaching led to a long series of playoff disappointments in LA, Buffalo, and Seattle. Knox's lifetime winning percentage was .558, and Levy's was .561. Knox was 7-11 in the postseason, and Levy was 11-8. And it's not like Knox didn't have talented teams. His first five Rams teams were dominant (54-13-1 in total), yet in their five playoff losses, they scored 16, 10, 7, 13, and 7 points. That's a sign of a severe lack of offensive imagination. And I watched most of those games. They were painfully dull on offense. 

 

As for Saban, I get why people like him, but he was coaching in an inferior ten-team league. It was just too far removed from the modern NFL to compare. Just my opinion. 

 

1. Levy

2. Saban

3. Knox

4. Phillips

5. McDermott

 

There is no #6. I don't think that a coach that got to 9-7 simply because the Pats benched their starters early on and who quit after year two deserves a spot. Same goes for Mularkey, who was basically the same in terms of production (and manner of departure!) as Marrone. I'd take Jauron over Marrone, who did slightly more with less.  But none of these guys are any good--all have had careers that scream "replacement-level player."   

Edited October 28, 2020 by dave mcbride

[uticaclub]

3 minutes ago, teef said:

set that bar bro.  strive for excellence.

I want to dominate, I want to beat the best teams not the garbage performances we saw against Tenn or KC. This game against New England will be franchise defining. If this Bills team can't beat that New England, we might as well blow it up. We broke the draught, a 1st round playoff loss is no longer acceptable, it's championship contender or bust.

[hondo in seattle]

14 hours ago, LB48 said:

Sean took over a team that hadn't won anything in 17 years.  January 2000 was our last play-off appearance!  We all lived through it and it was UGLY.  Many players and coaches couldn't make the Bills a winner despite tremendous fan support.

 

Now I see posts about "winning signature games" or if we lose to the Patriots it's a disaster.  Crazy and stupid!  It's the NFL in 2020 and most teams have a very good QB and can win against any opponent.

 

IMO Chuck Knox was the best coach in Bills history.  He took a losing franchise to respectability and back-to-back play-off seasons.  He assembled rookies and veterans to build a strong team.  IF he got his indoor practice facility, an aggressive GM and a upgraded contract he might have stayed around. 

 

Marv Levy was an ORGANIZER!  Not a great head coach.  He had the best team in the NFL talent wise.  He refused to make 'adjustments' during a game and felt the best way to win was to let the players do it.  Four Super Bowl losses should fall on him.  No game planning and no adjustments. Kelly could only do so much but didn't coach the defense and a lot of his success was due to ad-lib plays and Thurman Thomas.

 

I respect Sean and the 'process'.  It's working and Buffalo has a good, NFL competitive on the field each week.   GO BILLS!

 

 

 

I strongly disagree.

 

Ask Bruce, Thurman, or Jim if Marv was a great coach or not.  They'll disagree with your assessment of him as a mere "organizer" and - no offense - I'll trust their judgment more.

 

And I'm not sure at all that Bills had the best team in the NFL talent wise back then.  They did indeed have some stars.  But they had a number of pedestrian players, too, especially on defense. 

 

Taking over a crap team recently off back-to-back 2-14 seasons and winning the AFC Championship four years in a row is no small feat.  The HOF Selection Committee made no mistake when they enshrined Marv. 

 

And I don't know how you can leave Lou Saban out of the conversation?  Lou led us to two AFL titles with a stifling defense and was twice named UPI AFL "Coach of the Year."  

 

I like Knox well enough but he's third on my list.  McD - if he delivers a Lombardi - will move up to #1 but in my mind right now he probably ranks #4.  

 

Here are the top  Bills coaches in terms of win percentage:

 

 

Levy            .615

Phillips       .604

Saban         .598

McD            .545

Knox           .507

 

Amazingly, we've had 20 head coaches and these are the only ones with winning records.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by hondo in seattle

[teef]

Just now, uticaclub said:

I want to dominate, I want to beat the best teams not the garbage performances we saw against Tenn or KC. This game against New England will be franchise defining. If this Bills team can't beat that New England, we might as well blow it up. We broke the draught, a 1st round playoff loss is no longer acceptable, it's championship contender or bust.

oh i'm with you.  i just don't freak out with every hiccup in a season.  even the best teams take a step back on occasion.  is this team elite at this point?  no, but they need to keep following through with their plan and see what this year holds.  they need to get into the playoffs and win some games.  we all want the same thing.

 

if this team loses to the pats, i'm going to be furious.  it wouldn't cripple the season, but it's time to win games like this.

[uticaclub]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

oh i'm with you.  i just don't freak out with every hiccup in a season.  even the best teams take a step back on occasion.  is this team elite at this point?  no, but they need to keep following through with their plan and see what this year holds.  they need to get into the playoffs and win some games.  we all want the same thing.

 

if this team loses to the pats, i'm going to be furious.  it wouldn't cripple the season, but it's time to win games like this.

I only freak out because I base my expectations on prior experiences. Well I see the Bills not belong on the same field on contenders in the conference, I think this is going to be like every other year where the Bills are mediocre at best, I want good teams to fears us and say "Oh no, we have to play Buffalo, no way we beat them"

[teef]

4 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

I only freak out because I base my expectations on prior experiences. Well I see the Bills not belong on the same field on contenders in the conference, I think this is going to be like every other year where the Bills are mediocre at best, I want good teams to fears us and say "Oh no, we have to play Buffalo, no way we beat them"

well, no one feared the titans at the beginning of the season last year, and look where they are now.  things can change...good or bad.

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

If Marv was a great coach, the Bills probably would've won 3 out of 4 of those Superbowl appearances with that totally stacked team.

The only team they were better than was the Giants. Bear in mind that they were smack dab in the middle of a run of 13 straight NFC SB victories. Also, the Bills outcoached Dallas in the final one, but the players failed -- a combination of their own mistakes and Dallas's superior talent.

[BuffaloBobs]

I think at this point Wade Phillips and Sean McDermott are about equal as Buffalo Bills coaches on record alone. Wade had slightly more regular season success over three seasons but he inarguably inherited a better team than McDermott did.

 

For me, it's McDermott's development of Josh Allen that puts him above Wade. If that continues he'll be in rarified company as one of only two Buffalo Bills head coaches to develop a franchise quarterback.

 

 

[Greg S]

I am surprised their is no love for Kay Stephenson and Hank Bullough.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Rex Ryan's defense was sold as not needing studs except for at CB.    But as you mentioned with McD's defense.........you still needed certain types of guys.   The Bills didn't have a Jim Leonhard to run Ryan's D.   The current Bills don't have a Luke Kuechly.    

 

People might hate to hear it.......but now that the Bills are near contender status the weaker side of the ball is the one McD specializes in...........not unlike what happened with Rex.

 

Obviously Rex was a total turd but the point being that flexible coaches have a better chance to succeed in the long term.     

 

When McD came in he turned a top 10 scoring offense inside out for a scheme specific coach with a very different approach in Rick Dennison.   By contrast, whenWade took over he hired Joe Pendry..........who was unspectacular at prior stops(as was Dennison) but a much more versatile football coach who then changed the offense to fit the players he had.

 

The nice thing about McD is that I wouldn't put it past him to learn that maybe he could use a change in defensive philosophy and go to school on it.   At least he has shown a willingness to adapt.   Rex did not.   And Wade was very stubborn about his shortcomings too........they were just more related to his preparation of the team and his sideline work.   

 

I agree completely about flexible coaches being at a huge advantage and about Wade Phillips being a coach who adjusts his scheme to fit his players

 

Nit: I was pretty sure Rex's scheme needed a certain type of NT and at least 1 or maybe 2 LB that fit it...I thought that was the rationale for why we drafted (overdrafted) Reggie Ragland and Shaq Lawson

 

The thing that irks me about McD is that we have seen the same failure to contain the QB/allow the long 3rd down conversion bite us at least since Baltimore last season.  If the Plan is that every player on defense must play mistake-free on every play or it all falls apart, well, that strikes me as a Plan where you Lose Your Hat...a Bad Plan.  So I hope he adapts.

 

 

[BuffaloBill]

14 hours ago, ALLEN1QB said:

I like the Rex guy. McClapper is a joke. 👏👏👏👏👏👏

 

Rex was the best at pressers... no coach has ever been better at self promotion.

[Like A Mofo]

Chuck Knox was a very underrated coach: 186 career wins at the time he retied (.558 win %) he was 6th all time in the NFL in wins. Sadly he is forgotten in Buffalo coaching lore.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Like A Mofo

[Greg S]

12 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Knox, Saba, Levy in that order.  

McD has a long way to go.  Wade is probably number 4 and Marchibroda as an assistant probably had more impact then McD has as of yet.  

 

I always wonder if the Bills had gotten homefield in 1980 then they probably go to the Super Bowl vs the Eagles. They had two bad losses to the Colts that year which cost them homefield advantage. Then that heartbreaking playoff loss to the Chargers in SD was a tough way to end the season.

[chaccof]

15 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Not even close Marv Levy, Lou Saban, Chuck Knox

Hard to argue with this.  So who between Levy and Saban got the most out of their talent?  I feel like Levy's teams were really loaded while Saban got a ton out of better than average talent, but not really great overall.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

6.Marrone

 

Jesus I just spit out my coffee

 

Marrone ??   Maybe 16 th  

[hondo in seattle]

What do you think of Marv Levy as a head coach?

 

OP:  "Marv Levy was an ORGANIZER!  Not a great head coach."

 

Jim Kelly:  "He was a great coach. He didn’t scream and yell. He knew how to get the best out of every player. He was intelligent and chose his words wisely with each player. He believed that if he had to motivate you, then you wouldn’t fit. He thought that at that level you shouldn’t need to be motivated to play."

 

http://www.sportshistoryweekly.com/stories/jim-kelly-quarterback-buffalo-bills-nfl-super-bowl-football,801

 

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Greg S said:

I am surprised their is no love for Kay Stephenson and Hank Bullough.

 

Or my all-time favorite, Harvey Johnson.  He did so well his first time (1-10) that we brought him back after John Rauch (7-20) was fired in 1970.  

 

The second time around, Johnson was even better - going 1-13.

[oldmanfan]

Not a head coach, but arguably one of the best coaches the Bills have ever had was Joe Collier, the architect of the AFL championship defenses.  A defensive genius; wound up being a terrible HC but a defensive genius.  

[Billsfan1972]

5 hours ago, teef said:

this is an incredibly child like way to view their success as a coach.    would you rather have mcd or marrone/ryan?

 

(i'm not advocating that he's the second best coach in team history.  just commenting on the things you feel are important)

Because you & others are so enamoured with McD and the Process you don't realize that the offense stunk for 3 years playing weak schedules and conversley the Defence looked great.

 

What I saw was being blown out a lot of times, terrible offensive execution and playcalling, a pathetic record vs. playoff teams 3-17 and only 5 wins vs. teams over .500 (the other two being an 8-7-1 & and 9-7 record).  Oh & 0-2 in playoffs, both which were winnable games.

 

Let's add to that terrible on challenges, third quarter adjustments, giving up leads as well.

 

But let's talk about that 17-10 win vs. Pitt & Thanksgiving vs. Dallas and annoint McD.

 

Marrone was an idiot to leave and Ryan was Ryan, but somehow stumbled and produced the same record.

[teef]

9 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Because you & others are so enamoured with McD and the Process you don't realize that the offense stunk for 3 years playing weak schedules and conversley the Defence looked great.

 

What I saw was being blown out a lot of times, terrible offensive execution and playcalling, a pathetic record vs. playoff teams 3-17 and only 5 wins vs. teams over .500 (the other two being an 8-7-1 & and 9-7 record).  Oh & 0-2 in playoffs, both which were winnable games.

 

Let's add to that terrible on challenges, third quarter adjustments, giving up leads as well.

 

But let's talk about that 17-10 win vs. Pitt & Thanksgiving vs. Dallas and annoint McD.

 

Marrone was an idiot to leave and Ryan was Ryan, but somehow stumbled and produced the same record.

jesus...this is really how you look at it?

 

first off, it's not about being enamoured with mcd.  it's about realizing the positive strides made, (and continue to make) with staff.  you seem to want to only, and i mean only look at the negative.  tell us about how the staff has been blown out...that seems to effect you greatly.  but going to the playoffs twice, considering it hadn't been done in 17 years, is a nothing.  one playoff appearance is with tyrod, and the other was with a second year, very raw still qb.  both were away games, and both teams were better than the bills at that point.  the bills still looked  competitive.  you just seemed to be more bothered that people appreciate what's going on here.  i'm sorry it wasn't done your way, but that's life.

 

again, you keep bringing up records, like that a reasonable comparison.  the records were similar, but did either of those coaches take us to the playoffs twice.  did either coach have us poised to win the afc east?  no.   it's just like when people were trying to say mcd and gase were similar coaches due to their records.  it was insanely stupid to even imply that, this is equally as foolish.  

 

honestly, since you don't have 300 yard games to complain about, this has become your new thing.  you keep spitting out the same stats over and over again to prove a point that isn't there.  if you don't like mcd...fine.  some of us are just willing to let this play out more before throwing the staff under a bus.  

 

you're an adult, assumingly older than i am, yet you still insist on instant gratification.

 

edit:  also lost in all of this is that mcd and this staff are properly developing a qb.  when has that actually happened here in the last 20 years?  you're right though...lets just keep complaining.  you just demand excellence!

Edited October 28, 2020 by teef

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

I always wonder if the Bills had gotten homefield in 1980 then they probably go to the Super Bowl vs the Eagles. They had two bad losses to the Colts that year which cost them homefield advantage. Then that heartbreaking playoff loss to the Chargers in SD was a tough way to end the season.

Yes but if Ferguson doesn't sprain ankle in week 15 or whatever week it was, then they probably beat San Diego. Bills could have won the whole thing in 1980 with that defense and Cribbs/Butler.

[Billsfan1972]

11 minutes ago, teef said:

jesus...this is really how you look at it?

 

first off, it's not about being enamoured with mcd.  it's about realizing the positive strides made, (and continue to make) with staff.  you seem to want to only, and i mean only look at the negative.  tell us about how the staff has been blown out...that seems to effect you greatly.  but going to the playoffs twice, considering it hadn't been done in 17 years, is a nothing.  one playoff appearance is with tyrod, and the other was with a second year, very raw still qb.  both were away games, and both teams were better than the bills at that point.  the bills still looked  competitive.  you just seemed to be more bothered that people appreciate what's going on here.  i'm sorry it wasn't done your way, but that's life.

 

again, you keep bringing up records, like that a reasonable comparison.  the records were similar, but did either of those coaches take us to the playoffs twice.  did either coach have us poised to win the afc east?  no.   it's just like when people were trying to say mcd and gase were similar coaches due to their records.  it was insanely stupid to even imply that, this is equally as foolish.  

 

honestly, since you don't have 300 yard games to complain about, this has become your new thing.  you keep spitting out the same stats over and over again to prove a point that isn't there.  if you don't like mcd...fine.  some of us are just willing to let this play out more before throwing the staff under a bus.  

 

you're an adult, assumingly older than i am, yet you still insist on instant gratification.

 

edit:  also lost in all of this is that mcd and this staff are properly developing a qb.  when has that actually happened here in the last 20 years?  you're right though...lets just keep complaining.  you just demand excellence!

No, I expect more.....  I have said too that I'm turing the corner on McD (but you ignore that), but I'm not that enamoured with many things 2017-19 or the record or the playoff appearances.

 

As for Allen, I will repeat again and compare him to Burrow & Herbert, where I'm sure you'll compare him to Darnold, Mayfield & Rosen (and you maybe right or maybe I am)......  My view always was that they were too conservative with Allen and he could have been brought along quicker, which may have resulted in a different outcome vs. Houston.  

 

The fact McD is maybe the olny coach in the last 25 years not to have a QB throw for 300 yards in a game to me is telling.  

[oldmanfan]

17 minutes ago, teef said:

jesus...this is really how you look at it?

 

first off, it's not about being enamoured with mcd.  it's about realizing the positive strides made, (and continue to make) with staff.  you seem to want to only, and i mean only look at the negative.  tell us about how the staff has been blown out...that seems to effect you greatly.  but going to the playoffs twice, considering it hadn't been done in 17 years, is a nothing.  one playoff appearance is with tyrod, and the other was with a second year, very raw still qb.  both were away games, and both teams were better than the bills at that point.  the bills still looked  competitive.  you just seemed to be more bothered that people appreciate what's going on here.  i'm sorry it wasn't done your way, but that's life.

 

again, you keep bringing up records, like that a reasonable comparison.  the records were similar, but did either of those coaches take us to the playoffs twice.  did either coach have us poised to win the afc east?  no.   it's just like when people were trying to say mcd and gase were similar coaches due to their records.  it was insanely stupid to even imply that, this is equally as foolish.  

 

honestly, since you don't have 300 yard games to complain about, this has become your new thing.  you keep spitting out the same stats over and over again to prove a point that isn't there.  if you don't like mcd...fine.  some of us are just willing to let this play out more before throwing the staff under a bus.  

 

you're an adult, assumingly older than i am, yet you still insist on instant gratification.

 

edit:  also lost in all of this is that mcd and this staff are properly developing a qb.  when has that actually happened here in the last 20 years?  you're right though...lets just keep complaining.  you just demand excellence!

He has advocated for the Bills to lose.  That’s all you need to know.

[LABILLBACKER]

Win a SB, then you get to be the greatest Bills coach of all time. Blowing that 16-0 lead to a mediocre Texans team will not elevate you much. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Levy was the best, I think. Was he perfect? No. But I think people seriously underestimate the importance of managing personalities in team sports like the NFL. That was a team that always had the potential to implode because of the personalities on it, but he kept it all together and got them to the playoffs 8 out of 9 years. And people forget that the Bills actually had a terrific game plan in the final Super Bowl. The problem was crazy plays (turnovers) and talent winning out in the end. People talking up Knox ( @BADOLBILZ ) seem to forget that he didn't lose Super Bowls because his unimaginative approach to coaching led to a long series of playoff disappointments in LA, Buffalo, and Seattle. Knox's lifetime winning percentage was .558, and Levy's was .561. Knox was 7-11 in the postseason, and Levy was 11-8. And it's not like Knox didn't have talented teams. His first five Rams teams were dominant (54-13-1 in total), yet in their five playoff losses, they scored 16, 10, 7, 13, and 7 points. That's a sign of a severe lack of offensive imagination. And I watched most of those games. They were painfully dull on offense. 

 

As for Saban, I get why people like him, but he was coaching in an inferior ten-team league. It was just too far removed from the modern NFL to compare. Just my opinion. 

 

1. Levy

2. Saban

3. Knox

4. Phillips

5. McDermott

 

There is no #6. I don't think that a coach that got to 9-7 simply because the Pats benched their starters early on and who quit after year two deserves a spot. Same goes for Mularkey, who was basically the same in terms of production (and manner of departure!) as Marrone. I'd take Jauron over Marrone, who did slightly more with less.  But none of these guys are any good--all have had careers that scream "replacement-level player."   

 

 

I put a lot more stock into turning around moribund franchises......which is why Kox is #1 and Saban #2.

 

Levy fell in just as the Bills were getting to the point where they were too talented to deny success..........and while he did pull it together and manage the personalities.........that was one of his few strengths.

 

Knox turned programs around the way McDermott is trying to do here..........including hiring the underrated people who ultimately helped build the foundation for Polian,  who gets just a little too much credit for the foundation of the roster that made it to 4 SB's.

 

The scope of what Knox brought to an organization was just so much broader than what Levy did at his only successful NFL stop.

 

And let's be honest here........Knox never had a QB like Jim Kelly and his Rams teams were impeded by Roger Staubach and Fran Tarkenton......HOF'ers.  

 

But like I said it's not a GREAT list.

 

Bills have never had a GREAT HC.

 

And fwiw..........Marrone may have got to 9-7 because the Pats were resting........but he most certainly turned around a very sickly franchise and he hired two very successful DC's in two years.  Mularkey inherited a team that was talented and the coaching job he did in his second season was tragically bad.   Marrone never had that problem in Buffalo and he took a team to a conference championship game elsewhere.   I would take that over anything Mularkey and Jauron could spin cobble together.

[jester43]

17 hours ago, LB48 said:

Sean took over a team that hadn't won anything in 17 years.  January 2000 was our last play-off appearance!  We all lived through it and it was UGLY.  Many players and coaches couldn't make the Bills a winner despite tremendous fan support.

 

Now I see posts about "winning signature games" or if we lose to the Patriots it's a disaster.  Crazy and stupid!  It's the NFL in 2020 and most teams have a very good QB and can win against any opponent.

 

IMO Chuck Knox was the best coach in Bills history.  He took a losing franchise to respectability and back-to-back play-off seasons.  He assembled rookies and veterans to build a strong team.  IF he got his indoor practice facility, an aggressive GM and a upgraded contract he might have stayed around. 

 

Marv Levy was an ORGANIZER!  Not a great head coach.  He had the best team in the NFL talent wise.  He refused to make 'adjustments' during a game and felt the best way to win was to let the players do it.  Four Super Bowl losses should fall on him.  No game planning and no adjustments. Kelly could only do so much but didn't coach the defense and a lot of his success was due to ad-lib plays and Thurman Thomas.

 

I respect Sean and the 'process'.  It's working and Buffalo has a good, NFL competitive on the field each week.   GO BILLS!

 

 

I'm not sure about McDermott being 2nd, but I definitely agree about Knox being 1st.  That's another one Ralph ran out the door who should have been here and winning for a long long time.  That 1980 team is one of my favorite Bills teams ever.