Ed Oliver vs Quinnen Williams

[JetsFan20]

Quinnen is on the trade block. Jets asking for a 2nd round pick.

 

Has Oliver been good for Buffalo?

[Logic]

Honestly, I don't know that he's been substantially more impactful than Quinnen this season.

Oliver is a plus run stopper, but so far just an average pass rusher. As I understand it, that's Q's story, too.

Where I think Oliver may have an advantage over Williams is in the "hustle" department. His motor never stops. There's also at least a little reason to believe that he's still hampered by the leg injury he suffered earlier this year.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Logic

[colin]

he's big and talented, if that price was a 3rd, i'd do it in a new york minute.  frankly, i am tempted for a 2nd

[PaattMaann]

how about that Oliver isnt as effective this season because hes being asked to play the 1-tech when he should be playing the 3-tech, the position we drafted him for? 

[JetsFan20]

Just now, Logic said:

Honestly, I don't know that he's been substantially more impactful than Quinnen this season.

Oliver is a plus run stopper, but so far just an average pass rusher. As I understand it, that's Q's story, too.

 
Correct (outside of one game in Quinnens career in week 2 )

 

 

[ngbills]

I would do it. It is a huge need for the Bills and the guy needs a change of scenery. 

[MJS]

Has Ed Oliver been given more than a season and a hand full of games before being labeled a bust?

 

No. No he hasn't.

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, PaattMaann said:

how about that Oliver isnt as effective this season because hes being asked to play the 1-tech when he should be playing the 3-tech, the position we drafted him for? 

 

Coaches & Beane deserve the blame on this one big time.  He was small to begin with, too small to play 1-tech consistently.

[dorquemada]

Yeah he could come here and even get to still pay NYS taxes, what's not to like?

[PetermansRedemption]

1 minute ago, dorquemada said:

Yeah he could come here and even get to still pay NYS taxes, what's not to like?

Do they actually pay New York taxes when playing for the Jets? Considering it’s actually in New Jersey, I would think they pay Jersey state taxes?

[aristocrat]

you get him on a rookie deal for 2.5 seasons and then the fifth year option. comes into a great system. beane needs to make this move. 

[PaattMaann]

4 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Coaches & Beane deserve the blame on this one big time.  He was small to begin with, too small to play 1-tech consistently.

 

Or....they are in a bind and trying to do their best with what they have? Oliver would be thriving as the 3-tech, what he was drafted for. That isnt on Beane for drafting him or Coaches for not developing him there - because he isnt playing there. How could they plan for Star opting out and forcing him to play there? 

[DasNootz]

3 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

Yeah he could come here and even get to still pay NYS taxes, what's not to like?

He pays NJ taxes... he’d actually pay a little less in Buffalo.

[aristocrat]

1 minute ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Do they actually pay New York taxes when playing for the Jets? Considering it’s actually in New Jersey, I would think they pay Jersey state taxes?

 

it depends where is home residence is which might be alabama where he's from. if that's the case he pays their tax rate. especially with covid this year i'd imagine he stayed down their for most of the year. 

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

Has Ed Oliver been given more than a season and a hand full of games before being labeled a bust?

 

No. No he hasn't.

He’s not a bust, but he hasn’t been what we thought we were getting.  Not even close to what I thought we were getting.  I’m one of his biggest advocates, but he needs to step it up.  I thought he flashed a few times Vs the jets week 1.  Maybe only 1 flash a game the rest of the way, if that. 
 

In his defense, it’s tough on him when the opposing OL decides to double him and force him to play the 1 tech.  He’s NOT aaron Donald.  When he’s doubled, he’s usually neutralized instantly.  
 

I’d trade a 3rd for Williams.  Maybe a 2nd.  Haven’t focused in his play at all since scouting him for the draft but that tape might be worth a 2nd

 

@JetsFan20 how would you rate Williams play so far with the jets?

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, PaattMaann said:

 

Or....they are in a bind and trying to do their best with what they have? Oliver would be thriving as the 3-tech, what he was drafted for. That isnt on Beane for drafting him or Coaches for not developing him there - because he isnt playing there. How could they plan for Star opting out and forcing him to play there? 

 

Star opted out in July, should have been adequately addressed back then.   JMHO

[thenorthremembers]

I dont think its really a Williams vs Oliver thing.  Oliver was better last year, Williams has been better this year.   There is some mumbling about Oliver playing injured, so who knows.

 

What it comes down to is if you can get Williams on his rookie deal why not.  They both are talented players.   If you can rotate them, and then determine which you want to keep I'd say go for it.

[MAJBobby]

17 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said:

Quinnen is on the trade block. Jets asking for a 2nd round pick.

 

Has Oliver been good for Buffalo?

Q and Oliver on the same DL would be nice for a couple years..  Both would have 2021 and 2022 on Rookie contracts, with both 2023 5th year option (guessing would only pick 1 by that point).  

 

And if I can get it done for a 2nd inside the Division I DEFINATELY would do that, as I think the assets are going to defense anyway next year, so essentially your 2nd round pick is Q Williams with a 2 year rookie contract.

 

I would be all over it.

[JetsFan20]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

He’s not a bust, but he hasn’t been what we thought we were getting.  Not even close to what I thought we were getting.  I’m one of his biggest advocates, but he needs to step it up.  I thought he flashed a few times Vs the jets week 1.  Maybe only 1 flash a game the rest of the way, if that. 
 

In his defense, it’s tough on him when the opposing OL decides to double him and force him to play the 1 tech.  He’s NOT aaron Donald.  When he’s doubled, he’s usually neutralized instantly.  
 

I’d trade a 3rd for Williams.  Maybe a 2nd.  Haven’t focused in his play at all since scouting him for the draft but that tape might be worth a 2nd

 

@JetsFan20 how would you rate Williams play so far with the jets?

He’s been a lot more active this season, but still inconsistent. Had great games vs Broncos and 49ers.

 

Its so tough to evaluate these guys because the games are typically over midway through 2nd quarter. 

[NewEra]

Just now, JetsFan20 said:

He’s been a lot more active this season, but still inconsistent. Had great games vs Broncos and 49ers.

 

Its so tough to evaluate these guys because the games are typically over midway through 2nd quarter. 

True.  Gotta be tough getting motivated to dominate.  Different mindset I’m sure.

[PaattMaann]

4 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Star opted out in July, should have been adequately addressed back then.   JMHO

 

AFTER free agency/the draft. And in a year when we were already close to the cap spending, and having extensions of key players coming up, JMHO that its understandable they couldnt/didnt address it and hoped they can piece together a solution from the current roster. That obviously isnt working NOW, but options are limited. 

[H2o]

I'd give up a 2nd for Williams. He was definitely one of the most talented players in the draft last year. I think a change of scenery would do him well. 

[ALLEN1QB]

Who was the big guy we drafted to take the place of Kyle Williams and what has he done is he still on the team

[JohnnyK]

21 minutes ago, colin said:

he's big and talented, if that price was a 3rd, i'd do it in a new york minute.  frankly, i am tempted for a 2nd

I would do it now as our window for winning might be now, once Allen gets a new deal we are are in a totally different situation cap wise.  Our 2nd next year hopefully is towards the end of the draft, so it would be less than what you would give up to move up on draft day.  Jets and Miami might improve quickly and we might miss our opportunity.  

[billsfan89]

I would rather make a trade with the other NY/NJ team and go after Tomlinson from the Giants. Tomlinson was a 2nd round pick in 2017 who is a very good run stuffer but not a great pass rusher. The Giants have Leonard Williams and Simmons at the DT position and are unlikely to put up the money needed to resign a run stuffer who isn't the best on the pass rush. The cost would probably be lower and the Giants are more likely to deal with the Bills than the Jets are. I also think cap wise it helps that Tomlinson makes next to nothing on the last year of his rookie 2nd round deal. Whereas Williams makes a lot more due to being a fairly high draft pick. 

[mjt328]

Adding Quinnen Williams doesn't really solve our problem.

 

The McDermott/Frasier defense needs a 1-Tech DT who can occupy blockers and command double-teams.  

- We had a decent one with Star Lotulelei, but he opted out at the end of July.  By that point, it was too late to focus on the position in free agency or the draft.

- The hope was that Harrison Phillips would be a seamless replacement.  But he has clearly not recovered from his ACL injury last year, and has struggled.

- The Vernon Butler signing was a one-year flyer, hoping to salvage the career of a former 1st Round Pick.  It has not worked out.

 

As of right now, the coaching staff has been forced to either play bad players (Phillips/Butler) in that position... or go with undersized guys (Oliver/Jefferson/Zimmer) who aren't good in that role and are getting run-over.  Williams would likely be adding to the latter.  It's the same reason I don't really think re-signing Jordan Phillips would be making much of a difference right now.  

 

I fully expect Brandon Beane to make a move for a DT at some point (honestly surprised it hasn't happened yet).  But I just don't see Williams being an option.

 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, ALLEN1QB said:

Who was the big guy we drafted to take the place of Kyle Williams and what has he done is he still on the team

He has done about as much as the rest of them on the D line. lol. None of them have been too hot lately. Hopefully something can be figured out.

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, PaattMaann said:

 

AFTER free agency/the draft. And in a year when we were already close to the cap spending, and having extensions of key players coming up, JMHO that its understandable they couldnt/didnt address it and hoped they can piece together a solution from the current roster. That obviously isnt working NOW, but options are limited. 

 

Well with Covid coming up Beane et al should have been prepared for players opting out, this was a bad/risky year to spend so close to cap limits.  Is that 20/20, yes but it is also very pragmatic.

[billsfan89]

6 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

AFTER free agency/the draft. And in a year when we were already close to the cap spending, and having extensions of key players coming up, JMHO that its understandable they couldnt/didnt address it and hoped they can piece together a solution from the current roster. That obviously isnt working NOW, but options are limited. 

 

They should have gone after someone else besides Butler. I just don't understand what the Butler signing was about. They signed Addision and Jefferson to replace Phillips and Shaq and honestly Addision and Jefferson have been mostly what we thought they would be. But why sign Butler if you think Star is playing? At that point you have Oliver and Jefferson as the pass rushers and Star and Harry as the bigger guys. You could have spent that 7ish million on another depth piece or rolled it over. It just was such an odd choice to add an expensive 5th DT. 

 

Unless you felt concerned about Star opting out and signed Butler as insurance. In that case you just wiffed and should have signed a more pure run stuffer.

[RoyBatty is alive]

5 minutes ago, ALLEN1QB said:

Who was the big guy we drafted to take the place of Kyle Williams and what has he done is he still on the team

Harrison Philips?  Ehh he was much better last year, not the same post injury.

[BADOLBILZ]

12 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Star opted out in July, should have been adequately addressed back then.   JMHO

 

 

As I have said before.........for those of you who miss super-Star watching RB's run past him while he absorbs the single team block.........getting him back next year is going to be like getting an extra first round pick!

[whatdrought]

Oliver progressed down the stretch last year and started looking better and we had high hopes coming into this year, but with the whole defense going to pot it’s been hard to really judge any specific player properly. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

As I have said before.........for those of you who miss super-Star watching RB's run past him while he absorbs the single team block.........getting him back next year is going to be like getting an extra first round pick!

Assuming he comes back, wouldnt shock me at all if he retires and if Covid is still raging, being his size,, and the amount he has made,  i certainly wouldnt blame him.

[PaattMaann]

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

They should have gone after someone else besides Butler. I just don't understand what the Butler signing was about. They signed Addision and Jefferson to replace Phillips and Shaq and honestly Addision and Jefferson have been mostly what we thought they would be. But why sign Butler if you think Star is playing? At that point you have Oliver and Jefferson as the pass rushers and Star and Harry as the bigger guys. You could have spent that 7ish million on another depth piece or rolled it over. It just was such an odd choice to add an expensive 5th DT. 

 

Unless you felt concerned about Star opting out and signed Butler as insurance. In that case you just wiffed and should have signed a more pure run stuffer.

 

This is something that is more than fair to wonder about. I am also not sure. Really it seems like you have Oliver, Butler and Harry as the 3-t's because they are all better suited for that role and then just Star as the 1-T. Maybe they thought they could get away with those 30 percent of other snaps that Star doesnt play being a combo of the other guys?? Good point though. 

[MAJBobby]

Yeah this contract outlook should be a no Brainer for Beane or any team really to give up a 2nd. 

 

 

[whatdrought]

13 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

I would rather make a trade with the other NY/NJ team and go after Tomlinson from the Giants. Tomlinson was a 2nd round pick in 2017 who is a very good run stuffer but not a great pass rusher. The Giants have Leonard Williams and Simmons at the DT position and are unlikely to put up the money needed to resign a run stuffer who isn't the best on the pass rush. The cost would probably be lower and the Giants are more likely to deal with the Bills than the Jets are. I also think cap wise it helps that Tomlinson makes next to nothing on the last year of his rookie 2nd round deal. Whereas Williams makes a lot more due to being a fairly high draft pick. 

 

I looked into him and I’m all on this train now. Syracuse.com and Buffalorumblings both have articles mentioning him as a target we should pursue. I’d rather give a 4th for him; as opposed to a 2nd for Q. 

[JerseyBills]

44 minutes ago, colin said:

he's big and talented, if that price was a 3rd, i'd do it in a new york minute.  frankly, i am tempted for a 2nd

Living in NYC area, I'll listen to sports radio in my car. Apparently it's more mental with Q. 

Which you can argue is good or bad. 

 

Good because maybe coming to a competent team with real leadership and accountability can get him zoned in.

 

Bad because maybe that doesn't make a difference and he just doesn't have the mentality to want to be great. 

 

I'd probably still dish a 3rd. The talent is undeniable. And I'd be cautiously optimistic that coach and our leaders can keep him motivated. 

28 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

AFTER free agency/the draft. And in a year when we were already close to the cap spending, and having extensions of key players coming up, JMHO that its understandable they couldnt/didnt address it and hoped they can piece together a solution from the current roster. That obviously isnt working NOW, but options are limited. 

I think Harry Phillips was the guy they were hoping can take over for Star but he just hasn't looked good. I just hope it isn't from the injury and can be corrected 

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

Living in NYC area, I'll listen to sports radio in my car. Apparently it's more mental with Q. 

Which you can argue is good or bad. 

 

Good because maybe coming to a competent team with real leadership and accountability can get him zoned in.

 

Bad because maybe that doesn't make a difference and he just doesn't have the mentality to want to be great. 

 

I'd probably still dish a 3rd. The talent is undeniable. And I'd be cautiously optimistic that coach and our leaders can keep him motivated. 

I will always point to the players that get away from Gase improve.  There are ALOT of them.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

27 minutes ago, H2o said:

I'd give up a 2nd for Williams. He was definitely one of the most talented players in the draft last year. I think a change of scenery would do him well. 

I would do this Immediately. Pair him (1 tech) next to Ed (3 tech) and that would be very good NT combo with time to evaluate both before their rookie contracts comes due. Give them a 2nd.

[colin]

2 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Living in NYC area, I'll listen to sports radio in my car. Apparently it's more mental with Q. 

Which you can argue is good or bad. 

 

Good because maybe coming to a competent team with real leadership and accountability can get him zoned in.

 

Bad because maybe that doesn't make a difference and he just doesn't have the mentality to want to be great. 

 

I'd probably still dish a 3rd. The talent is undeniable. And I'd be cautiously optimistic that coach and our leaders can keep him motivated. 

 

im in NJ too bro, Monmouth county.

 

Just a big body who can punch some people in the mouth is a big addition at this point.  phillips is too hurt to anchor, star is afraid of the big bad covid so's doing jack for us, oliver has a knee and he's not really a 1 tech anyhow.

 

if it could happen, i'd fire off the 2nd and get q in here and at the least keep the LBs clean for like 40% of our plays on D