So many good young qbs in the NFL right now

[Whkfc]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/week-3-nfl-qb-power-rankings-jared-goff-josh-allen-surge-into-top-10-as-carson-wentz-drew-brees-slide/

Going through the list its pretty crazy how deep the qb position is in the NFL right now Trent Dilfer says alot of it is due to the lack of crowd noise right now. But man so many guys are putting up some great numbers. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

Yeah, the changing of the guard is here.  Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rivers etc are at the end of their careers, Rodgers, Wilson, Newton, Ryan, Stafford and a couple of others are the new old guard and then there is a large group of very talented QB's who have been in the league for less than 5 years.  The NFL landscape is shifting dramatically because of it.  I just hope a few of these teams that have been set at the QB position for 15 + years get to experience what it is like to no longer be set at the most critical position.

 

By the way LOL at Darnold being ranked behind Driskell and Mullins!  

 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by buffaloboyinATL

[Process]

Mahomes at 3 behind jackson and Murray at 5 is laughable.

[Malazan]

Quote

Trent Dilfer says alot of it is due to the lack of crowd noise right now.

 

or...ya know...the NFL told referees to stuff the whistle..

Edited September 24, 2020 by jeremy2020

[thenorthremembers]

17 minutes ago, Process said:

Mahomes at 3 behind jackson and Murray at 5 is laughable.

Murray that high is laughable alone.

[C.Biscuit97]

There are definitely a lot of good young qbs but it is a product of the rules.  Herbert threw for 300 yards in his first nfl start with zero notice.  This would have never Happened before. 
 

It has never been easier to be a nfl qb.

Just now, thenorthremembers said:

Murray that high is laughable alone.

Why? I seriously doubted him but he has consistently improved and opened the season beating the SB champs on the road.

 

hes a little person but he is a damn good qb.

[GunnerBill]

The NFL has finally realised what colleges are giving them. I think the last 5 years has really seen an influx of talented young Quarterbacks. They are just not the prototype that NFL teams were looking for in 2010 for example. It took the league a while to realise those guys were scarce and they needed to change their search criteria.

[buffaloboyinATL]

18 minutes ago, Process said:

Mahomes at 3 behind jackson and Murray at 5 is laughable.

He is behind Wilson and Jackson right now,. Murray is at 5 behind Rodgers.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The NFL has finally realised what colleges are giving them. I think the last 5 years has really seen an influx of talented young Quarterbacks. They are just not the prototype that NFL teams were looking for in 2010 for example. It took the league a while to realise those guys were scarce and they needed to change their search criteria.

I think a lot of teams are going to get fooled into paying non elite guys elite money.  This is like the PED era for baseball right now for qbs and wrs.  I think the playoffs become more old school in what they call.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The NFL has finally realised what colleges are giving them. I think the last 5 years has really seen an influx of talented young Quarterbacks. They are just not the prototype that NFL teams were looking for in 2010 for example. It took the league a while to realise those guys were scarce and they needed to change their search criteria.

 

Poor Timmy Tebow...

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Poor Timmy Tebow...

I loved Tebow in college but Nate Peterman is Pat Mahomes compared to him throwing the ball. 

[thenorthremembers]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

There are definitely a lot of good young qbs but it is a product of the rules.  Herbert threw for 300 yards in his first nfl start with zero notice.  This would have never Happened before. 
 

It has never been easier to be a nfl qb.

Why? I seriously doubted him but he has consistently improved and opened the season beating the SB champs on the road.

 

hes a little person but he is a damn good qb.

Not saying he hasnt been good, but he hasnt been better Allen, Goff and arguably Matt Ryan despite his coach being a complete fool.

 

Also, when did he beat the SB champs?

 

 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, thenorthremembers said:

Not saying he hasnt been good, but he hasnt been better Allen, Goff and arguably Matt Ryan despite his coach being a complete fool.

 

Also, when did he beat the SB champs?

 

 

 

Agree with that. Murray has played well. He is going to be a good QB but I do think people have gone slightly overboard with how he played the first two weeks and I agree all three of those guys you mention have been better than him.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I loved Tebow in college but Nate Peterman is Pat Mahomes compared to him throwing the ball. 

 

Point is, if he had the benefit of today's perspective, he might have coaches who were willing to rebuild the offense completely just for him (Jackson), or a team who was willing to bring in a college offense coach (Murray).

 

He may still have sucked, but we'll never know what could have been with a real chance and a full team support.

 

Bums me out because he was so fun to watch in college. Probably the best college player I've watched with my own two eyes (considering I didnt really start watching college ball until about 2003).

[mannc]

I hate to say it, but based on his performance Sunday night, I’d have to say Cam Newton is seriously underrated here.  It’s probably the best he’s played since his MVP season, and i don’t think it’s a fluke.  He looks fully healthy and he’s finally being well-coached.  Looks to be an upgrade from Brady, unfortunately.

[Malazan]

7 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Not saying he hasnt been good, but he hasnt been better Allen, Goff and arguably Matt Ryan despite his coach being a complete fool.

 

Also, when did he beat the SB champs?

 

Reality doesn't matter much to some posters

[thenorthremembers]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Point is, if he had the benefit of today's perspective, he might have coaches who were willing to rebuild the offense completely just for him (Jackson), or a team who was willing to bring in a college offense coach (Murray).

 

He may still have sucked, but we'll never know what could have been with a real chance and a full team support.

 

Bums me out because he was so fun to watch in college. Probably the best college player I've watched with my own two eyes (considering I didnt really start watching college ball until about 2003).

He was fantastic and maybe the best leader I've ever seen in football.    I agree with you here, he needed to be drafted to a good organization.    McDaniels wasnt/isnt head coach material and the Broncos were in win now mode rather than trying to develop him long term. 

 

Despite, that Tebow is still a really good example for young athletes.  About to finish his book Shaken, very good read for people going through stressful times in their lives.

[Bangarang]

How can someone who puts Kyler Murray at 5 say it might be too soon to put Allen in the top 10?

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, mannc said:

I hate to say it, but based on his performance Sunday night, I’d have to say Cam Newton is seriously underrated here.  It’s probably the best he’s played since his MVP season, and i don’t think it’s a fluke.  He looks fully healthy and he’s finally being well-coached.  Looks to be an upgrade from Brady, unfortunately.

 

He definitely looks like an upgrade from Brady. I don't know how anyone could watch SNF and not think "man the Pat are better at QB than this time last year."

[eball]

45 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

There are definitely a lot of good young qbs but it is a product of the rules.  Herbert threw for 300 yards in his first nfl start with zero notice.  This would have never Happened before. 
 

It has never been easier to be a nfl qb.

 

 

Ha, look at you moving the goalposts as you see Josh Allen have success.  So funny and so predictable.  Now it's "easy" to be an NFL QB.

 

No, what's happening is that there a lot of athletic, talented QBs coming into the league and coordinators are finding ways to use their strengths rather than insisting upon the old "prototype" of what an NFL QB is supposed to be.

[MJS]

There was definately a talent vacuum there for awhile. The last few years have luckily brought in some more talented QB's.

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, Process said:

Mahomes at 3 behind jackson and Murray at 5 is laughable.

 

Mahomes behind anyone not named Wilson is laughable.  I'd have Wilson, Mahomes, then Jackson.  JA at #4, but I can see him challenging for #1.  

1 hour ago, Whkfc said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/week-3-nfl-qb-power-rankings-jared-goff-josh-allen-surge-into-top-10-as-carson-wentz-drew-brees-slide/

Going through the list its pretty crazy how deep the qb position is in the NFL right now Trent Dilfer says alot of it is due to the lack of crowd noise right now. But man so many guys are putting up some great numbers. 

 

the lack of fan noise is an interesting take.  I bet it is a def. advantage for rookie or 2nd year QB's. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by RyanC883

[Whkfc]

7 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Mahomes behind anyone not named Wilson is laughable.  I'd have Wilson, Mahomes, then Jackson.  JA at #4, but I can see him challenging for #1.  

 

the lack of fan noise is an interesting take.  I bet it is a def. advantage for rookie or 2nd year QB's. 

Here is the link to the article i read. 

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/trent-dilfer-veteran-nfl-qbs-shred-defenses.amp

[mjt328]

What stands out to me?  Almost all the young QBs are athletic and can make plays outside the pocket.

Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Kyler Murray.

 

I've been watching the NFL for 30 years, and this is the first time I've seen the "pure pocket passers" fade into the background.

The traditional mold definitely seems to be breaking.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

Ha, look at you moving the goalposts as you see Josh Allen have success.  So funny and so predictable.  Now it's "easy" to be an NFL QB.

 

No, what's happening is that there a lot of athletic, talented QBs coming into the league and coordinators are finding ways to use their strengths rather than insisting upon the old "prototype" of what an NFL QB is supposed to be.

Dude, you’re such a tool.  Any non stupid person (ask around to find one) would tell you it is a million times to be a qb now.  It is absolutely idiotic to compare stats now to stats in 2000 and before.  Jim Kelly had an 84.4 QB rating. That put him behind Jeff Driskel.  Great point eballs.

 

you are so weird.  Not one person has said anything negative about Allen so far and you still are crying.  Bills players aren’t going to sleep with you.  But you are the bestest fan ever!!! You definitely would make a great Jill. 

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He definitely looks like an upgrade from Brady. I don't know how anyone could watch SNF and not think "man the Pat are better at QB than this time last year."

It’s so weird to say that but it’s true.  Now it’s if he can stay healthy. 

2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Not saying he hasnt been good, but he hasnt been better Allen, Goff and arguably Matt Ryan despite his coach being a complete fool.

 

Also, when did he beat the SB champs?

 

 

It was the SB runner ups.  And he is coming off a very solid rookie year.  He’s definitely better than Goff.  Might be a little high right now but he looks very good.  And I hated him because of his size coming out. 

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Point is, if he had the benefit of today's perspective, he might have coaches who were willing to rebuild the offense completely just for him (Jackson), or a team who was willing to bring in a college offense coach (Murray).

 

He may still have sucked, but we'll never know what could have been with a real chance and a full team support.

 

Bums me out because he was so fun to watch in college. Probably the best college player I've watched with my own two eyes (considering I didnt really start watching college ball until about 2003).

Denver completely switched their offense for Tebow.  That’s why people weren’t worried about Newton in NE because McDaniel did similar things with Tebow.  Tebow had a really weak arm and was never going to be a good enough passer.  
 

one if the best college qbs ever though. 

[Kwai San]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

There are definitely a lot of good young qbs but it is a product of the rules.  Herbert threw for 300 yards in his first nfl start with zero notice.  This would have never Happened before. 
 

It has never been easier to be a nfl qb.

 

 

I do not agree with that....not at all.  EVERYONE would be throwing for 400 and 4 td's every sundee.  Nope - we are seeing a lot of decent performances grouped together that skews the curve making some think we have a million good QB's.  At the end of the season time will tell us that there are only a handful of top tier passers in this league....

[Nextmanup]

This has been a topic of conversation lately.

 

I think what's changing is the offensive coaching is learning how to best utilize the QB talent they have in new and effective ways.

 

Eventually defenses will probably catch up, but right now we seem to be in a period where the offense is winning the battle.

 

 

[eball]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Dude, you’re such a tool.  Any non stupid person (ask around to find one) would tell you it is a million times to be a qb now.  It is absolutely idiotic to compare stats now to stats in 2000 and before.  Jim Kelly had an 84.4 QB rating. That put him behind Jeff Driskel.  Great point eballs.

 

you are so weird.  Not one person has said anything negative about Allen so far and you still are crying.  Bills players aren’t going to sleep with you.  But you are the bestest fan ever!!! You definitely would make a great Jill. 

This is pretty typical for someone of your intelligence level. At least you didn’t physically threaten me this time, so maybe there’s hope. 

[Saint Doug]

9 hours ago, Whkfc said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/week-3-nfl-qb-power-rankings-jared-goff-josh-allen-surge-into-top-10-as-carson-wentz-drew-brees-slide/

Going through the list its pretty crazy how deep the qb position is in the NFL right now Trent Dilfer says alot of it is due to the lack of crowd noise right now. But man so many guys are putting up some great numbers. 

That Cam Newton pic is Ridiculous. 

[Zerovoltz]

I do think the level of QB play overall, in the NFL has never been higher....and I think there are alot of contributing factors.

 

1.  I do think, the NFL has come to understand that colleges are supplying guys that can run and pass, who aren't orthodox like the old days. 

2. The rules favor passing, making it easier for some guys who might have been on the fringe, to now be successful

3. There are simply more people than ever being born and playing sports overall, wich was bound to lead to a few more genitically gifted, trained dudes that can QB

4. NFL scouting of QB has improved in the last decade...especially the last 5 years....they are getting better and knowing what to look for...so fewer busts.

5. The rookie NFL scale for draft picks has made it so that it isn't a franchise death nell when you miss on a 1st round QB like it used to be.  Teams are willing to take the risk....Arizona was able to move on from Rosen after 1 season to draft Murray..that would NEVER have happend pre rookie scale.  Alot of teams....like the Bills for example, could afford a guy like Allen who was high risk, high reward because the money wasn't prohibative if it didn't work.

 

Still......all 32 can't be awesome....there will always be a degree of separation from best to worst.  Also....as the passing games keep ramping up, we'll see teams like th 49ers and Titans shift to power run games or teams use big 3 TE sets against these small nickel and dime looks designed to prevent the pass......but yeah...QB play has never been better than it is now.

[Mr. WEO]

Remember when people posted that the college game doesn't prepare QBs for the pros?

 

Yeah....

[EasternOHBillsFan]

23 hours ago, Process said:

Mahomes at 3 behind jackson and Murray at 5 is laughable.

 

Not if you have him as a Fantasy QB like I do... he hasn't been Mahomes-like so far this season.

[Shaw66]

On 9/24/2020 at 9:48 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

I think a lot of teams are going to get fooled into paying non elite guys elite money.  This is like the PED era for baseball right now for qbs and wrs.  I think the playoffs become more old school in what they call.

I think you're right.  The style of play is changing, and it looks like it is pretty easy for QBs right now.  But it won't continue.  The defenses will catch up, and who seem to be standing out right now will fall back to mediocre.  I think that will happen to Jackson.  

 

But some guys will time it just right and get big money.  Then the league will catch up to them, and they'll be overpaid.   I think, for example, that's what happened with Flacco.  He looked like the perfect QB, and then he wasn't. 

[Shaw66]

On 9/24/2020 at 10:12 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

He definitely looks like an upgrade from Brady. I don't know how anyone could watch SNF and not think "man the Pat are better at QB than this time last year."

I don't agree with this.   I didn't watch much of Sunday night, and when I did watch, Newton looked really good.  But I don't think that means Newton is a top quarterback, and I don't think anyone is ever going to say he's better than Brady.   I don't think that in December anyone will be saying Newton is better than Brady a year ago.  

 

As I said, I think the game is relatively easy for QBs right now.  The way receivers can run free in the defensive backfields is completely different than the old days.  If you have a QB with good protection or good mobility, he can complete over 60% of his passes.   Fitzpatrick looks like a star, but nobody is going to convince me that he's made this big jump in ability over the last two years.  It's just that we're in a period when it's relatively easy to pass.  Admittedly, we're also in a period when there are a bunch of young guys who can both run and throw - Watson, Allen, Murray, Jackson, even Mahomes.  That's new.  

 

But the defenses will adjust - they always do, and the QBs who stay on top will have the same qualities that the QBs on top always have - brains, serious understanding of defenses, ability to read pre-snap and post-snap, all of that.  Toughness, leadership.   As the defenses adjust and those important qualities rise to the top, I think Newton will fall off the leader board.  If Newton had those skills, he would have been dominant five years ago, and in my mind he never was.   

 

What we're seeing from Newton right now is what we always have seen with Belichick - give him a player with a special skill set and Belichick will find ways to use those skills.  But at the end of the day, Belichick, any coach, needs a QB who can run an increasingly complex offense, a QB who can keep his cool and keep his ego in check.   I don't think that's Newton.  

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't agree with this.   I didn't watch much of Sunday night, and when I did watch, Newton looked really good.  But I don't think that means Newton is a top quarterback, and I don't think anyone is ever going to say he's better than Brady.   I don't think that in December anyone will be saying Newton is better than Brady a year ago.  

 

As I said, I think the game is relatively easy for QBs right now.  The way receivers can run free in the defensive backfields is completely different than the old days.  If you have a QB with good protection or good mobility, he can complete over 60% of his passes.   Fitzpatrick looks like a star, but nobody is going to convince me that he's made this big jump in ability over the last two years.  It's just that we're in a period when it's relatively easy to pass.  Admittedly, we're also in a period when there are a bunch of young guys who can both run and throw - Watson, Allen, Murray, Jackson, even Mahomes.  That's new.  

 

But the defenses will adjust - they always do, and the QBs who stay on top will have the same qualities that the QBs on top always have - brains, serious understanding of defenses, ability to read pre-snap and post-snap, all of that.  Toughness, leadership.   As the defenses adjust and those important qualities rise to the top, I think Newton will fall off the leader board.  If Newton had those skills, he would have been dominant five years ago, and in my mind he never was.   

 

What we're seeing from Newton right now is what we always have seen with Belichick - give him a player with a special skill set and Belichick will find ways to use those skills.  But at the end of the day, Belichick, any coach, needs a QB who can run an increasingly complex offense, a QB who can keep his cool and keep his ego in check.   I don't think that's Newton.  

 

I disagree. Brady was bad last year. Newton looks good so far this. Not great. But good. Good is an upgrade on 2019 Brady.

[Shaw66]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree. Brady was bad last year. Newton looks good so far this. Not great. But good. Good is an upgrade on 2019 Brady.

I know.  I just think that when we get later in the season, when the defenses are better and the games are tougher, Newton won't execute.  

 

Newton's got better physical skills than Fitzpatrick.  Fitz has better thinking skills than Cam.  They're both top 10 today; I don't think either will be top ten in three months. 

 

Newton has had two seasons where his passer rating was better than Brady last season, and he's had one season when he's never thrown for more yards than Brady did last season.  Newton now gets the benefit of the best coaching he's ever had, but the question remains whether he can take advantage of it. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Shaw66

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I know.  I just think that when we get later in the season, when the defenses are better and the games are tougher, Newton won't execute.  

 

Newton's got better physical skills than Fitzpatrick.  Fitz has better thinking skills than Cam.  They're both top 10 today; I don't think either will be top ten in three months. 

 

Newton has had two seasons where his passer rating was better than Brady last season, and he's had one season when he's never thrown for more yards than Brady did last season.  Newton now gets the benefit of the best coaching he's ever had, but the question remains whether he can take advantage of it. 

 

It isn't just about numbers though. Sure Cam has to keep it up but his performances through two weeks are an upgrade at Quarterback and I see no reason it won't stay that way.

[Shaw66]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It isn't just about numbers though. Sure Cam has to keep it up but his performances through two weeks are an upgrade at Quarterback and I see no reason it won't stay that way.

I've never liked Cam.   We'll see.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I think you're right.  The style of play is changing, and it looks like it is pretty easy for QBs right now.  But it won't continue.  The defenses will catch up, and who seem to be standing out right now will fall back to mediocre.  I think that will happen to Jackson.  

 

But some guys will time it just right and get big money.  Then the league will catch up to them, and they'll be overpaid.   I think, for example, that's what happened with Flacco.  He looked like the perfect QB, and then he wasn't. 

 

I read that here over and over for most of last season.  How is the catching up going?

[Shaw66]

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I read that here over and over for most of last season.  How is the catching up going?

I'm not talking about this week or next week.  I'm talking about what the next ten years will look like.  Some of these young QBs are the Mannings and Bradys of the future, and some of them are the Flaccos.  

 

Carson Wentz was everyone's can't miss Wunderkind two years ago.   Not so much today.  

 

I think Jackson will come back to the pack.  I could be wrong, for sure.  If I need a QB for next week's game, he's one of a half dozen I want.  But if I need one for the next ten years, I don't think he's my guy.   Mahomes?  Yes.  Watson?  Yes.  I wouldn't trade Allen even up for Jackson.  Allen is the better long-term prospect.