Another Bills reporter trying to make himself the story

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Doc Brown said:

Does he have enough arm strength to send Barkley packing?  That's all I care about.

It's not his strong suit either.

[LeviF]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

how do you separate this:

 

Spoke to Bills QB Jake Fromm, who insisted he's had many difficult conversations over the past few months since his "elite white people" texts surfaced. He said he's starting to see the world in a new perspective. Also insists that text is not indicative of who he is as a person

 

 

from his answer to what he thinks of the issues of the last few months? I’m not trying to cancel him or anything but obviously I’m an ideal answer he’d have a bit more content than love god and each other if he’s had many important conversations on race 

 

I mean yeah he should probably have more content than that but let's not pretend that there's more than one answer that MLJ would find "acceptable."  It's a non-story that he's turning into a story about himself instead of asking tough follow-up questions.  It's a journalistic failure. 

[dwight in philly]

1 hour ago, co_springs_billsfan said:

I have zero issue with Fromm's responses

Totally agree! move on for crissakes! Slow day for a reporter i never heard of.. 

[JESSEFEFFER]

It was a weak, tepid, apolitical response to to generally weak, overly simple question.  If the answer MLJ wanted to hear needed to be political to be "acceptable" then it should not have been asked.  He probably hoped for a response that was more profound but Fromm given the time he had to reflect on it but Jake is not in a position to be a lightning rod for anything. 

 

MLJ will be on OBL after commercial and it's likely to come up.

[C.Biscuit97]

8 minutes ago, eball said:

 

That's cool, I didn't have a strong reaction either way.  It's just how it came across to me.  I'll never understand the logic of extremely religious people so their message is largely lost on me.  I'm more of a "do the right thing because it's the right thing to do" kind of guy.

Agree with this 1000%.  There are people who think that saying that are a certain religion absolves every terrible thing they do.  And they love judging others.  
 

instead of clinging to the Bible (a wild book written over 1000 years ago), I was always taught to live by the golden rule. Treat people the way you want to be treated.  If people really did this, the world would be a much better place. It’s that simple, 

[MJS]

56 minutes ago, eball said:

Eh, I think Fromm’s response was questionable also. Why not just say we need to love all people equally? He makes it sound as though the only people capable of this have to be Jesus freaks first. 

In his view loving God leads to loving all people. You don't have to accept that philosophy, but that's what he's trying to say.

 

Nothing he said was going to be accepted by all. When you talk about politics AND religion you are estranging half the population automatically.

 

And apparently if you say you don't want to talk about those things you are also offending people. So really it's a lose lose situation for the kid.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

12 minutes ago, Logic said:

Fromm’s lack of self awareness and respect for the serious and complex nature of the issues at hand at this moment in history are not unique.

 

His blindness and obliviousness in this instance reflects the blindness and obliviousness of many in this country.

 

Hopefully, he does some self reflection and realizes that “everyone should love God”, while a fine idea, is not in itself a sufficient answer to the question of “how can we foster meaningful change to the problems of systemic racism and endemic white supremacy”.

Mark 12:30-31. Racism/white supremacy find no refuge in Jesus' words here. 

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

I mean It is the same none the less. The scale of views is the only difference. The action is the same. 

It's not the same reporters and journalists are held to a higher standard than random people on the internet. I mean if they're not they sure as hell should be.

[MJS]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agree with this 1000%.  There are people who think that saying that are a certain religion absolves every terrible thing they do.  And they love judging others.  
 

instead of clinging to the Bible (a wild book written over 1000 years ago), I was always taught to live by the golden rule. Treat people the way you want to be treated.  If people really did this, the world would be a much better place. It’s that simple, 

Haha. The golden rule is from the Bible.

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

 

You’re missing Fromm’s point. He’s saying he isn’t going to get into details because he’s learned his lesson about speaking without thinking. So he offers a basic answer and a guide by which he aspires to live his life. 
 

Marcel doesn’t believe his guide is valid, or else he’d see it as an appropriate response. He’s demanding more. He doesn’t believe that simply seeking to love one another is a good enough response for some stupid mistakes. 

 

Your kid gets in a fight at school. 
 

you have a big talk about conflict resolution etc...

 

ask your kid about a situation you witness and your kid says “love god and each other” and doesn’t talk continue on to the deescalation techniques you discussed or strategies for better outcomes... does questioning whether he got the point mean you have disregarded his faith? 
 

marcel doesn’t say his faith is wrong but without tying your faith to knowledge and action it’s just faith, not an example of growth and new maturity that he was looking for. It’s fair to question whether he actually understands how to better live his faith than he did prior. Fromm didn’t offer that info. Which is his right to sidestep but it’ll irk some people.

[C.Biscuit97]

43 minutes ago, Dragoon said:

Im sick of cancel culture and we all need to stand up to it. 

Who is getting canceled?  A fifth round pick with a weak arm is goOmg to camp after saying elite whites are the only ones who Should have guns.  He gave a generic apology and literally nothing Of consequence happen to him.  

[Jauronimo]

Just now, whatdrought said:

 

You’re missing Fromm’s point. He’s saying he isn’t going to get into details because he’s learned his lesson about speaking without thinking. So he offers a basic answer and a guide by which he aspires to live his life. 
 

Marcel doesn’t believe his guide is valid, or else he’d see it as an appropriate response. He’s demanding more. He doesn’t believe that simply seeking to love one another is a good enough response for some stupid mistakes. 

Once again, that is your unsupportable interpretation of the words.  The only interpretation based on the quoted words is that Marcel is not a christian or doesn't believe the Bible is valid?  If Marcel was a Christian he wouldn't view Fromm's admission that he wasn't going to get political as a dodge?

 

Father forgive whatdrought for he know not what he done.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Haha. The golden rule is from the Bible.

But a lot of people don’t pay attention to that rule.  Our leader is someone whose whole political career is trashing people. And some Christians praise the guy like he is a god.  It’s weird. 

[Jauronimo]

7 minutes ago, DFT said:

 You really had to stretch the actual conversation to fit all of the things you were expecting from the conversation. So if I’m to look at that intelligently, it looks like you were expecting something to come from a conversation just like the reporter was expecting. That’s not wrong. What’s wrong is condemning Jake’s response because it didn’t fit what you were expecting. He still deserves to have his faith respected just as he deserves to be expected to respect others. 

Marcel didn't disrespect Fromm's faith.  Only a person with a persecution complex would suggest otherwise.

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, LeviF91 said:

 

I mean yeah he should probably have more content than that but let's not pretend that there's more than one answer that MLJ would find "acceptable."  It's a non-story that he's turning into a story about himself instead of asking tough follow-up questions.  It's a journalistic failure. 

Oh I’m not saying MLJ is good. Wasn’t even touching on that a little.

 

just discussing whether it was a solid way to address it. Questionable at best in my opinion. Doesn’t make Fromm the devil either. He’s a young guy learning tough lessons in front of the media. Not easy, and I suspect he’s not an overtly racist jerk... just a clumsy young man feeling his way through. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

20 minutes ago, eball said:

 

That's cool, I didn't have a strong reaction either way.  It's just how it came across to me.  I'll never understand the logic of extremely religious people so their message is largely lost on me.  I'm more of a "do the right thing because it's the right thing to do" kind of guy.

I get it eball, I really do. Just want to say that this type of person doesn't automatically equate to "authentic Christ follower"--you can be a loud Bible thumper and not truly understand its core message as taught by Jesus--in fact, being someone who wants to beat others over the head with it in a condemning manner probably makes it more likely that you're missing the forest for the trees.    

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Once again, that is your unsupportable interpretation of the words.  The only interpretation based on the quoted words is that Marcel is not a christian or doesn't believe the Bible is valid?  If Marcel was a Christian he wouldn't view Fromm's admission that he wasn't going to get political as a dodge?

 

Father forgive whatdrought for he know not what he done.

I'd say my issue is that Marcel is essentially saying that Fromm has to answer this question and give a significant answer but that's not true Fromm doesn't have tell him *****.

[MJS]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

But a lot of people don’t pay attention to that rule.  Our leader is someone whose whole political career is trashing people. And some Christians praise the guy like he is a god.  It’s weird. 

Oh I agree. I find Trump to be wildly inappropriate and immoral and I am confused too that so many Christians are willing to overlook that. I think if most were honest they would prefer some different figurehead, but it comes down to a fear of what domocratic leaders would do instead of really believing in the republican representative.

[DFT]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

Marcel didn't disrespect Fromm's faith.  Only a person with a persecution complex would suggest otherwise.

I don’t think you and I are going to agree and that is totally OK. So let’s just agree to disagree.

[MJS]

Just now, Doc said:

More mountains being made out of mole hills. more mountains being made out of mole hills.:rolleyes:

That's the culture we have chosen, unfortunately.

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

I'd say my issue is that Marcel is essentially saying that Fromm has to answer this question and give a significant answer but that's not true Fromm doesn't have tell him *****.

100% agree.  Fromm doesn't owe Marcel or the public a dissertation on BLM, police brutality, social justice or anything else.

[Doc Brown]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

Oh I agree. I find Trump to be wildly inappropriate and immoral and I am confused too that so many Christians are willing to overlook that. I think if most were honest they would prefer some different figurehead, but it comes down to a fear of what domocratic leaders would do instead of really believing in the republican representative.

They like that he punches back to what they see as an increasing secular society more similar to European countries.

[Doc]

More mountains being made out of mole hills.

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, MJS said:

Oh I agree. I find Trump to be wildly inappropriate and immoral and I am confused too that so many Christians are willing to overlook that. I think if most were honest they would prefer some different figurehead, but it comes down to a fear of what domocratic leaders would do instead of really believing in the republican representative.

Good post.  But I think that’s kinda what is disingenuous about Fromm’s answer.  Did he really learn from this or is it just say God this and God that while still believing the same stuff?  
 

Personally, this is such a non story.  I think Fromm said something really stupid and while I think he has some typical southern believes, I really doubt he is a racist.  If his teammates at Georgia and now with the Bills are cool with him, that’s fine.  Now as others have said, the question is if he’s good enough.  For that, I have doubts but literally nothing has really happened to the guy. 

[NoSaint]

9 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

It's ok to see a correlation there, but I don't think it's Fromm's responsibility to do so. I say this as someone who's extremely opposed to what he said. The reporter needs to ask a better and more direct question, not try to connect dots.

I’ll continue to echo that I’m not saying the reporters great.

 

but if you spent your last couple months having big meaningful conversations about a major topic that’s playing out around you and then you are asked about that topic at hand... it’s a reasonable expectation to see him say something more meaningful about the issue. Like I said, not the end of the world but good reason to have a questions (which the reporter may or may not have been able to ask)

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

100% agree.  Fromm doesn't owe Marcel or the public a dissertation on BLM, police brutality, social justice or anything else.

Disagree.  I think the world was waiting for the words of wisdom from Jake Fromm.  

[NoSaint]

4 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I'd say my issue is that Marcel is essentially saying that Fromm has to answer this question and give a significant answer but that's not true Fromm doesn't have tell him *****.

but likewise the reporter doesn’t have to say his answer sufficed. 
 

your allowed to duck the question and the reporters allowed to say you ducked it and then the fans are allowed to think what they will 

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

More mountains being made out of mole hills.

i would say calling this tweet and/or the reaction a mountain is certainly you doing exactly that

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

I just felt like he judged Fromm’s response personally, and attached it to his reporting of the quote. It struck me as unprofessional.

 

FWIW, here is Marcel LJ's story.  Do you find it unprofessional?

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29615286/jake-fromm-looks-make-amends-elite-white-people-text

I think we're in the "grey fuzzy area" where Twitter is

-a tool reporters use to build following thus enhance their value to employers

-but also a platform for that reporter's personal beliefs and reactions

 

I think MLJ wrote a good professional article about Fromm's interview.  Then in twitter gave his perspective as a black man.   My personal thought was, as the result of 2 months purported "educating myself, staying really close to my friends that are on the other side, having those conversations and really helping out however I can", for Fromm to be asked his opinion "on the state of social inequality in the country" and respond "last thing I want to do is get political in any way" but add the "world would be a better place if we can love God first and then love people" is Weak-Sauce. 

 

There's a lot of space between full-on "Black Lives Matter" and "last thing I want to do is get political in any way".

 

JMO.

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

but likewise the reporter doesn’t have to say his answer sufficed. 
 

your allowed to duck the question and the reporters allowed to say you ducked it and then the fans are allowed to think what they will 

But that's not what Marcel said he said it wasn't acceptable if not giving a real answer isn't acceptable then he's implying he has to give an answer.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

25 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agree with this 1000%.  There are people who think that saying that are a certain religion absolves every terrible thing they do.  And they love judging others.  
 

instead of clinging to the Bible (a wild book written over 1000 years ago), I was always taught to live by the golden rule. Treat people the way you want to be treated.  If people really did this, the world would be a much better place. It’s that simple, 

When Jesus gave the parable of "The Good Samaritan" (starts at Luke 10:30), it was the embodiment of the golden rule. A man who by rights was the sworn enemy of another in a different tribe, stops to help and rescues his enemy from certain death, and pays for his recovery care--all while getting nothing back in return. If those who say they cling to the Bible were to put it into actual practice, then your take would hopefully be different as well.   

 

 

 

edit:  this would be like me stopping on a 5-lane interstate to fix Bill Belichick's flat tire--I can hardly think of a more detestable thing to have to do! 

Edited August 7, 2020 by NoHuddleKelly12

[Jauronimo]

Just now, NoSaint said:

but likewise the reporter doesn’t have to say his answer sufficed. 
 

your allowed to duck the question and the reporters allowed to say you ducked it and then the fans are allowed to think what they will 

Not if the player says anything remotely Christian no matter how cryptic or how badly butchered.  Once that happens, everyone forfeits their right to criticism. 

 

UNLESS that player has just turned the ball over 5 times in one half of football.  In that case, something like, I don't know, this:

 

"“At the end of day I know where my true identity lies: in Christ. ... Being a child of God, basically. Not finding my identity in football." 

 

doesn't even come close to an acceptable response to "what did you learn from your performance today?".

[RiotAct]

MLJ Day - August 7th, 2020

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, DFT said:

“Love God first and love people...”

”That’s not an acceptable response!”

 

When a quote from Jesus isn’t an acceptable response to you, you may have a problem that extends beyond the person that’s quoting him.

I got called in front of my boss for using some racially insensitive language.  When asked what I learned from a few weeks of sensitivity training and how I will change my behavior in the future I dropped the old "I'm not going to get into that, but I will say I'm focused on loving God and deepening my relationship with Christ".  I was let go!!!! 

 

I am now suing Chick Fil A Corporate for their anti-Christian agenda.

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Jauronimo said:

I got called in front of my boss for using some racially insensitive language.  When asked what I learned from a few weeks of sensitivity training and how I will change my behavior in the future I dropped the old "I'm not going to get into that, but I will say I'm focused on loving God and deepening my relationship with Christ".  I was let go!!!! 

 

I am now suing Chick Fil A Corporate for their anti-Christian agenda.

Chick Fil A’s homophobic chicken is so good though!!!

 

my pleasure 

[HamSandwhich]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

I like MLJ in general. But my first thought when I saw that was ... “acceptable to whom?” 

This is the problem with the BLM, they are now the arbiters of what is right and wrong to say. That’s exactly what this is stemming from. Fromm said nothing wrong but to a Supporter of what BLM actually stands for, this is the way they will see this.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

100% agree.  Fromm doesn't owe Marcel or the public a dissertation on BLM, police brutality, social justice or anything else.

 

No, he doesn't owe Marcel or the public those things, but if he wants to persuade Marcel LJ (who seems to be one of just a handful of black reporters for national media) and provide evidence to black players on other teams that he's genuinely educating himself on issues of race, one would think in 2 months he could come up with a better answer.

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

I got called in front of my boss for using some racially insensitive language.  When asked what I learned from a few weeks of sensitivity training and how I will change my behavior in the future I dropped the old "I'm not going to get into that, but I will say I'm focused on loving God and deepening my relationship with Christ".  I was let go!!!! 

 

I am now suing Chick Fil A Corporate for their anti-Christian agenda.

Not a very good analogy this wasn't a private conversation it was one specifically meant to be put out there for all to see.

[Buffalo716]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

FWIW, here is Marcel LJ's story.  Do you find it unprofessional?

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29615286/jake-fromm-looks-make-amends-elite-white-people-text

I think we're in the "grey fuzzy area" where Twitter is

-a tool reporters use to build following thus enhance their value to employers

-but also a platform for that reporter's personal beliefs and reactions

 

I think MLJ wrote a good professional article about Fromm's interview.  Then in twitter gave his perspective as a black man.   My personal thought was, as the result of 2 months purported "educating myself, staying really close to my friends that are on the other side, having those conversations and really helping out however I can", for Fromm to be asked his opinion "on the state of social inequality in the country" and respond "last thing I want to do is get political in any way" but add the "world would be a better place if we can love God first and then love people" is Weak-Sauce. 

 

There's a lot of space between full-on "Black Lives Matter" and "last thing I want to do is get political in any way".

 

JMO.

In my opinion politics should not even be brought up in interviews

 

Remember the 70s and 80s and 60s when politics was never discussed? It's like religion

 

It's a no-go discussion because it just causes friction

 

Fromm made a mistake, as a 20 year old kid, every single person alive made mistakes at 20

 

He already got dragged through the mud, I think his name has already got enough stains on it

Edited August 7, 2020 by Buffalo716

[RiotAct]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

Not if the player says anything remotely Christian no matter how cryptic or how badly butchered.  Once that happens, everyone forfeits their right to criticism. 

 

UNLESS that player has just turned the ball over 5 times in one half of football.  In that case, something like, I don't know, this:

 

"“At the end of day I know where my true identity lies: in Christ. ... Being a child of God, basically. Not finding my identity in football." 

 

doesn't even come close to an acceptable response to "what did you learn from your performance today?".

who cares?  It’s an idiotic question in the first place

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, HamSandwhich said:

This is the problem with the BLM, they are now the arbiters of what is right and wrong to say. That’s exactly what this is stemming from. Fromm said nothing wrong but to a Supporter of what BLM actually stands for, this is the way they will see this.

How about “acceptable to someone that was just told that the speaker has been learning important information about the topic”