Politics in Football, Sports in General

[GottaRun]

11 minutes ago, ALF said:

Just remove the National Anthem from NFL games ( I'm a veteran ) end controversy ,( I support BLM )

No kidding.  National anthems belong at international sporting events (The World Cup) and not in domestic sports.  They should not be played before Bills games.

People who are upset by the kneeling better get ready for the inevitable fans sitting down in the stands during the anthem.  

[purple haze]

On 6/9/2020 at 12:36 PM, Jauronimo said:

 

Name ONE political Rage Against the Machine song.  Just one.  

Killing in the Name.  

Raising consciousness/challenging authority is by its very nature political. Many have been killed for doing just that.

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

A short reply to a long post:  Why is the national anthem political.  It is what it is - a song about the country we live in.  It becomes political when people assign it values and people disagree on those values.

 

There are things we all, every person, can agree upon it seems to me.  Pride in the country we live would seem to be one of them.  I have had the opportunity to travel the world for my job and that pride is warranted.  I have seen poor areas that do not exist in the US.  Yes there are areas of opportunity and always will be but if you want to live free and have the opportunity to make a better life, there is no country better in the world.

 

I really don't care if the anthem is played or not.  Would prefer it so but not lose any sleep if stopped.  If that is removed then something else political will take its place.  The problems will not be solved but the people who want to divide and demote the country will be happy for 2 minutes then onto the next symbol.

 

The person who started this thread complained about politics in sports.  The anthem has nothing to do with sports, was not written for events, and contains lyrics of oppression that are offensive to some people. 

 

Bottom line, you dont want politics in sports from athletes, then remove the politics from the game.  As long as the national anthem, with its divisive lyrics, forcing people to honor whatever connection brings up for them to the song, it will always remain political.  

 

And you are right, song means different things to different people.  To far too many, that meaning carries political ties.  So, simple...someone wants no politics in sports, the sole solution is to remove politics from sports and that starts with the anthem.

 

Me personally, I dont have an issue with the anthem.  I dont care if people argue through the song, kneel, poop, get a beer, have sex, or what not during the song.  Why on earth  anyone else cares what someone else does during the song is beyond me.  If people only cared about their own experience during the song, there would be no issue.  But humans are disgustingly arrogant though all of time that feel they MUST force their experience/belief onto others no matter what.  See almost every war in history.  

 

So when you add a song, that carries different meanings to people that involve politics to the start of a sporting event, you are now forever tying that sport and its athletes, fans, etc to politics.  There is no 2 ways about it. 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

6 hours ago, SDS said:

 

I have one kid who couldn't care less about professional sports and one who will go to Ravens games. I don't sense a strong bond between younger fans and the game.

My kids are casual fans at best .... seems the only real allure for them is the tailgate tomfoolery and drunkfest. Once that inevitably leaves, there will be very little attraction left 

[SDS]

15 minutes ago, purple haze said:

Killing in the Name.  

Raising consciousness/challenging authority is by its very nature political. Many have been killed for doing just that.

Sarcasm. 

[Tenhigh]

24 minutes ago, SDS said:

Sarcasm. 

Mind bottling. 

[without a drought]

  If they removed the National Anthem from regular sports events, the average person would go years without hearing it. Then the only time you would hear it is once again sports, this time being the Olympics.

 

   Maybe I'm missing something, anyone know where and when they would ever hear it again besides sports.

[Coach Tuesday]

4 minutes ago, without a drought said:

  If they removed the National Anthem from regular sports events, the average person would go years without hearing it. Then the only time you would hear it is once again sports, this time being the Olympics.

 

   Maybe I'm missing something, anyone know where and when they would ever hear it again besides sports.

Inaugerations?

[Brueggs]

12 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

And right there, with all due respect, is what is wrong with your argument.  It’s all spelled out right in that statement.  Astronomical platforms can lead to meaningful change.  That’s what protests are all about.  This seems so obvious.

I respect your opinion, but my opinion is that it was the wrong time.  Maybe, if a group of players got together on their own time, put forth a coordinated  effort, organized meetings at their local police precincts and created their own platforms they could have also made a great movement without the backlash.  

[GottaRun]

3 hours ago, without a drought said:

  If they removed the National Anthem from regular sports events, the average person would go years without hearing it. Then the only time you would hear it is once again sports, this time being the Olympics.

 

   Maybe I'm missing something, anyone know where and when they would ever hear it again besides sports.

We used to have to stand and listen to the anthem before movies.  Times change.

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, without a drought said:

  If they removed the National Anthem from regular sports events, the average person would go years without hearing it. Then the only time you would hear it is once again sports, this time being the Olympics.

 

   Maybe I'm missing something, anyone know where and when they would ever hear it again besides sports.

4th of July? Political events. Memorial Day potentially.

 

you could put it on your phone and listen on your drive to work or at bbqs! 

[purple haze]

4 hours ago, SDS said:

Sarcasm. 

Wasn't sure so I treated it seriously.

[GG]

7 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

It really means: “keep politics I don’t agree with out of the NFL.”

 

Then it goes both ways, correct?

[Dr. Who]

12 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Then it goes both ways, correct?

Doubtful.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, GG said:

 

Then it goes both ways, correct?

 

In what sense?

[JoPoy88]

6 hours ago, GG said:

 

Then it goes both ways, correct?

i’ m all ears. How does it ideally “go both ways?”

[Jpsredemption]

I think athletes can have strong impacts with their voices and that can be great. What they don’t need is political correctness skewing their messages or opinions. Just like those who want Kaepernicks voice to be heard, they must also allow for everyone’s voice to be heard. 

[BillnutinHouston]

17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is irrelevant to the point though. If you allow the military to hold PR rallies at your event that choice is in itself political. Any advertising choices the NFL makes are political to an extent.... but most of them are not arms of the state. Most of them don't take their orders, ultimately, from politicians. I don't have any problem with the NFL behaving in that way, but once you open to door to those sorts of political decisions (even with ultimately a financial motive) it is very difficult to say politics must stay out. 

 

The idea that the military is "political" is interesting.  

 

Is the military conservative or liberal?  Before you answer, consider recent statements from Generals Colin Powell, James Mattis, John Kelly, and Admiral William McRaven.

 

[Bill from NYC]

17 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

We are inherently a really, for a lack of better word, STUPID society that is heavily influenced by shiny objects and celebrity.  What I mean by that is simple...as a society, we NEVER elect the most qualified candidates for anything.  Our votes trend to those who have a charisma or some other draw.  We live in a country where the great candidates the Republican Party had were defeated by a man long known for corruption, lying, sexual assault, etc who was a reality TV star and many times over failed business man.  On the democratic side, both in 2016 and 2020 we let a woman no one trusted, with controversy following her and her husband for decades rise to the top of the list and in 2020 we had a deep roster of some really good candidates get over shadowed by a guy with his own skeletons in his closet regarding sexual misconduct, questionable policies on his resume, and who has quite honestly losing his mind a bit with his very old age.   

 

 

You raised some good points AD but you are killing me with the bolded LOL!!!!! Great candidates? I beg to differ.

 

[Coach Tuesday]

10 hours ago, GG said:

 

Then it goes both ways, correct?

I’ve heard plenty of folks in this thread suggest removing the anthem ritual from the pre-game.  So yes?  Personally I have no problem with it if the Army wants to advertise and certain people want to express their patriotism or whatever and others want to kneel.  To each his or her own, Gerry.  But I’m sure you’ll go dig up some incident from 1983 when Joe Biden discussed his love of the national anthem and waive it in our faces as some kind of “See they’re all hypocrites!” retort.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Coach Tuesday

[SoTier]

On 6/9/2020 at 1:23 PM, OutOfBubbleGum said:

What is everyone's opinion? Should politics be kept out of the NFL? My opinion is yes, keep it out. For starters, after a long week of working and seeing the news, I personally want to escape from all of that outside influence and relax watching football. I do not care who is sitting next to me at a football game, from any walk of life, I just want to watch the game and high five. Yet when things become political, the game isn't as enjoyable. My opinion is sports and sports teams should be like Switzerland and be neutral.

 

 

If you want to have a sanitized NFL playing in a vacuum where "the outside world" doesn't intrude, I suggest Madden.  The NFL is made up of people, and people can't divorce themselves from their experiences or from what happens in the world.   Deal with it.

 

This applies as much today as it did 394 years ago ...

 

"No man is an island entire of itself; every man

is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;

if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe

is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as

well as any many of thy friends or of thine

own were; any man's death diminishes me,

because I am involved in mankind.

And therefore never send to know for whom

the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

     John Donne, 1624

 

 

[Putin]

43 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said:

 

The idea that the military is "political" is interesting.  

 

Is the military conservative or liberal?  Before you answer, consider recent statements from Generals Colin Powell, James Mattis, John Kelly, and Admiral William McRaven.

 

Collin Powell also endorsed Obama over John McCain 

[Niagara Bill]

There are advantages to athletes speaking out.

1. You at least know that what they are saying (in general) could potentially  ruin their celebrity cache so they must feel strongly about their convictions.

2. You generally have known of them for a lengthy period of time so you  do know they are not a paid agent of Putin and this is not fake news....I hope.

3. If they signed with the Dolphins as a free agent you know the athlete is nuts and just discount everything they say ?

 

[JMF2006]

22 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Not trying to be an antagonist but I asked this earlier and no one responded. How, specifically, is someone kneeling during the anthem impacting your experience? Are you still thinking about that with 3:38 to go in the 2nd quarter? Once the game starts the only thing that I’m thinking about is how the Bills can have more points when the clock hits zero. I just don’t really understand. 
 

“Wanting to escape” to me is code for “I don’t like the protest.” That’s why I’m asking the question. I want to be educated. If anyone wants to explain how it changes their experience watching the game I’m all ears. It’s just something I can’t wrap my head around at this point.

 

I didn't mention kneeling but seeing as you brought it up I am not an American..... I am Canadian but I proudly stand for your anthem and support your country and despite some flaws and warts its still the envy of most of the worlds population who  would move to your country in a minute if they could.

 

Kneeling to me is disrespectful to all who have served or made the ultimate sacrifice for our combined freedoms(I say combined because if the good ole USA ever fell Canada would be in dire straits)

[GG]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In what sense?

 

3 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

i’ m all ears. How does it ideally “go both ways?”

 

Keep ALL politics & individual protests off the playing field.

[Coach Tuesday]

7 minutes ago, GG said:

 

 

Keep ALL politics & individual protests off the playing field.

Including the anthem itself and the Air Force flyovers?

[GG]

17 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Including the anthem itself and the Air Force flyovers?

 

It is the National anthem.   I could care less about the fly overs at the games, although they are cool to watch.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

It is the National anthem.   I could care less about the fly overs at the games, although they are cool to watch.

It’s political.  Keep it out.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Coach Tuesday

[GG]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

It’s political.  Keep it out.

 

The anthem is supposed to be apolitical.  It's the National anthem.  That's the whole point.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

The anthem is supposed to be apolitical.  It's the National anthem.  That's the whole point.

See how this works?

[GG]

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

See how this works?

 

Again, you're conflating playing the anthem with the private employer's rule of conduct.  The NFL will very likely change its rules this year.  Has nothing to do with playing the anthem before the games or not, or how individuals choose to respond to the National anthem.

[Coach Tuesday]

5 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Again, you're conflating playing the anthem with the private employer's rule of conduct.  The NFL will very likely change its rules this year.  Has nothing to do with playing the anthem before the games or not, or how individuals choose to respond to the National anthem.

 

So if the private employer ok's kneeling during the anthem, you're good with it?

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, BillnutinHouston said:

 

The idea that the military is "political" is interesting.  

 

Is the military conservative or liberal?  Before you answer, consider recent statements from Generals Colin Powell, James Mattis, John Kelly, and Admiral William McRaven.

 

 

I wasn't arguing that the military itself has a political persuasion. But it is an arm of the state. It answers to the Secretary of Defense and ultimately the President - politicians. It is, by its very nature, political. Not in a right v left way. It isn't party political. It is in a "delivery arm of the state" way. 

44 minutes ago, GG said:

 

 

Keep ALL politics & individual protests off the playing field.

 

In principle, yes. In practice it is almost impossible to keep all politics out of any billion dollar industry. 

[GG]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In principle, yes. In practice it is almost impossible to keep all politics out of any billion dollar industry. 

 

It's easy to keep it off the playing field.  Do whatever you want to do once the final whistle sounds

 

7 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

So if the private employer ok's kneeling during the anthem, you're good with it?

 

It's the private employer's rules and my opinion only matters if I want to consume that employer's product.

[Coach Tuesday]

11 minutes ago, GG said:

It's the private employer's rules and my opinion only matters if I want to consume that employer's product.

 

Great!  We agree.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, GG said:

 

It's easy to keep it off the playing field.  Do whatever you want to do once the final whistle sounds

 

And everything being discussed in this thread happens before the first whistle sounds and stays very much out of the game itself.

[Kirby Jackson]

12 minutes ago, GG said:

 

It's easy to keep it off the playing field.  Do whatever you want to do once the final whistle sounds

 

 

It's the private employer's rules and my opinion only matters if I want to consume that employer's product.

I think that’s a fairly utopian view. Should they not fly the flag at games? That’s political. We’ve been over the anthem. We have flyovers. We have presidents throwing out first pitches. We sing God Bless America in the 7th inning stretch. We honor military heroes during games. We do a salute to service month. The stadiums are funded by the public. There are lots and lots of political aspects of sports. That’s never going to change.

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And everything being discussed in this thread happens before the first whistle sounds and stays very much out of the game itself.

That’s one of the things that I keep going back to. If a DB takes a knee on 3rd and 4 it becomes an issue.

[GG]

26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And everything being discussed in this thread happens before the first whistle sounds and stays very much out of the game itself.

 

I can clarify it to when the players take to the playing field.  I'm not thrilled with the post-game prayers either.

 

25 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that’s a fairly utopian view. Should they not fly the flag at games? That’s political. We’ve been over the anthem. We have flyovers. We have presidents throwing out first pitches. We sing God Bless America in the 7th inning stretch. We honor military heroes during games. We do a salute to service month. The stadiums are funded by the public. There are lots and lots of political aspects of sports. That’s never going to change.

That’s one of the things that I keep going back to. If a DB takes a knee on 3rd and 4 it becomes an issue.

 

Of course it's utopian.  Most of those are all National symbols, are largely for the fan benefit and something that the private employer approves.  It's up to the leagues to come up with the workplace rules that appease clients & employees.  Let's see how this plays out.

[Kirby Jackson]

16 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I can clarify it to when the players take to the playing field.  I'm not thrilled with the post-game prayers either.

 

 

Of course it's utopian.  Most of those are all National symbols, are largely for the fan benefit and something that the private employer approves.  It's up to the leagues to come up with the workplace rules that appease clients & employees.  Let's see how this plays out.

It’s not for fan benefit. It’s because the military is a giant sponsor. https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/amount-money-military-gives-nfl.html/
 

 

I agree that we’ve universally accepted it because why would people oppose that? It shouldn’t be “do you accept the anthem or not?” That should be 100% yes. It should be the same with systemic racism too though. That’s where this is headed. It shouldn’t be you sit on one side of the fence or the other. It should have the same universal support. It clearly hasn’t but it is trending in that direction. You aren’t going to see less protesting this year. It will be more and will also be more accepted. It won’t be universally accepted but it won’t be nearly as controversial as when Kaep started.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, JMF2006 said:

 

I didn't mention kneeling but seeing as you brought it up I am not an American..... I am Canadian but I proudly stand for your anthem and support your country and despite some flaws and warts its still the envy of most of the worlds population who  would move to your country in a minute if they could.

 

Kneeling to me is disrespectful to all who have served or made the ultimate sacrifice for our combined freedoms(I say combined because if the good ole USA ever fell Canada would be in dire straits)

 

The military and the country it protects are not synonymous.  The national anthem, like the flag, is simply a symbol of the country while the military is an institution subservient to the country.  The military does not make policy, although its members are too frequently expected to sacrifice for those policies it has no voice in making.   What is disrespectful of the military is presidents sending American soldiers/sailors/flyers into harm's way in pursuit of questionable objectives stemming from short-sighted or foolish policies, not individuals expressing their dissatisfaction with their country during the playing of the national anthem.

 

More importantly, "freedom" rings very hollow if people aren't free to express their dissatisfaction with the conditions in the country or the current government's actions. 

 

1 hour ago, GG said:

 

The anthem is supposed to be apolitical.  It's the National anthem.  That's the whole point.

 

The anthem has NEVER been apolitical as it represents the country which is a political entity.