David Carr Criticizes Winston’s workout

[DCOrange]

I imagine Jameis will settle for a 1 year deal as a backup. He's absolutely a starting caliber QB though. But the teams that realistically want new QBs right now are looking more for someone that can just take care of the ball and keep the offense on schedule. Jameis hasn't shown the ability to do that; what he has shown is that he can put a lot of points on the board (yes, for his opponents sometimes, but Tampa's offenses have been great with him at the helm).

 

I'd say he's roughly the same tier of QB right now as Allen, but obviously very different risk-reward profiles.

[machine gun kelly]

Some opinions are from people who haven’t watched him like myself and other Tampa residents where he killed games with pic 6’s.  He’s a back up and no issues, but he had a good o line, not great and probably the best skilled offensive players in the nfl and still threw this many pics.  He’s not a starting QB.  He had five years.

 

You think he should back up Big Ben or another team, I understand, but I’m skeptical he can ever be a starter.  It’s not like he didn’t have decent offensive minds in Arians, Cutter, and so on.

[purple haze]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/09/david-carr-chides-jameis-winston-for-training-choices/amp/. 
 

I guess in some ways David has a point. I don’t think any NFL team goes after him to be honest, hasn’t really shown that’s he’s capable of being a starting QB in the NFL, especially after last year being a disaster for him

Yes, he had 30 INT's last year, but he also threw for 5,000 yards and 30 TD's.  People seem to overlook those facts.  That's starting  talent.    Jameis will be somewhere, but he'll have to be a backup for a little while until/if he gets a chance to compete for a starting job, probably with some poor team.

Edited April 11, 2020 by purple haze

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Tyrod is starting this season presumably, I’d much rather go into a game with Famous than that bum under center.

 

Oh 100%. 

10 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Some opinions are from people who haven’t watched him like myself and other Tampa residents where he killed games with pic 6’s.  He’s a back up and no issues, but he had a good o line, not great and probably the best skilled offensive players in the nfl and still threw this many pics.  He’s not a starting QB.  He had five years.

 

You think he should back up Big Ben or another team, I understand, but I’m skeptical he can ever be a starter.  It’s not like he didn’t have decent offensive minds in Arians, Cutter, and so on.

 

This is true. But he is STILL a better QB than David Carr ever was. Oh and as for him being a starter v a backup.... if Tyrod Taylor is an NFL starting QB then Jameis definitely is. 

[Turk71]

2 minutes ago, purple haze said:

Yes, he had 30 INT's last year, but he also threw for 5,000 yards and 30 TD's.  People seem to overlook those facts.  That's starting  talent.    Jameis will be somewhere, but he'll have to be a backup for a little while until/if he gets a chance to compete for a starting job, probably with some poor team.

If the Bills didn't have Allen would you want Winston? I know I wouldn't. The upside is just not there. He is what he is at this point imo.

  I noticed he only has 7 4th qtr comebacks in 70 starts. Josh has 6 in 27. His record as a starter is 28-42. He's not eating enough Ws. 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In Winston's worst year he threw more touchdown's than David Carr's best year. Winston threw more tds than ints every year in Tampa. Carr managed that only three times in Houston. 

 

Yes. Winston is a much better QB than Carr ever was. 

 

but how does that change that it’s a goofy drill to be running and that jameis may be in need of a change from his JV trainer as he’s on a bad trajectory and never had a rep of surrounding himself with winners.

 

in the last few weeks we’ve seen him pushing a car and doing this. Would we be thrilled if these were are looks into joshs training?

[machine gun kelly]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh 100%. 

 

This is true. But he is STILL a better QB than David Carr ever was. Oh and as for him being a starter v a backup.... if Tyrod Taylor is an NFL starting QB then Jameis definitely is. 

GB- Agreed, but remember David Carr had the worst O Line probably in history as he was getting killed over and over again.  I’m not into the defending Carr thing, but Winston did have at least the last couple of years a decent line and still threw a ton of pics.  Good point on Tyrod, but he really isn’t a starting QB as we all know.  He’s a very good back up.  That’s it.  I’m betting Lynn does not start him whenever we have a season.  I’ll take him as a backup as well as Winston anytime, as they are good for that role.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

but how does that change that it’s a goofy drill to be running and that jameis may be in need of a change from his JV trainer as he’s on a bad trajectory and never had a rep of surrounding himself with winners.

 

in the last few weeks we’ve seen him pushing a car and doing this. Would we be thrilled if these were are looks into joshs training?

 

So unprofessional Jameis is still better than professional David Carr. Jameis is a bit crazy. He always has been. 

Just now, machine gun kelly said:

GB- Agreed, but remember David Carr had the worst O Line probably in history as he was getting killed over and over again.  I’m not into the defending Carr thing, but Winston did have at least the last couple of years a decent line and still threw a ton of pics.  Good point on Tyrod, but he really isn’t a starting QB as we all know.  He’s a very good back up.  That’s it.  I’m betting Lynn does not start him whenever we have a season.  I’ll take him as a backup as well as Winston anytime, as they are good for that role.

 

Winston always threw picks. He did throw touchdowns too. That was the bit David Carr used to forget. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Just now, machine gun kelly said:

GB- Agreed, but remember David Carr had the worst O Line probably in history as he was getting killed over and over again.  I’m not into the defending Carr thing, but Winston did have at least the last couple of years a decent line and still threw a ton of pics.  Good point on Tyrod, but he really isn’t a starting QB as we all know.  He’s a very good back up.  That’s it.  I’m betting Lynn does not start him whenever we have a season.  I’ll take him as a backup as well as Winston anytime, as they are good for that role.

the problem with David Carr though is he ran out of excuses. Every year it was something:

 

1) David Carr needs a better line (then he gets one)

2) David Carr needs a true #1 WR (he gets one)

3) Davis Carr needs a great running game (he gets one)

4) Davis Carr needs a much better no. 2 receiving option (he gets one).

5) David Carr needs a great pass-catching TE (he gets one).

 

At a certain point, Surrounding a guy with all the talent in the world isn’t going to help a truly mediocre QB. 

[Chicken Boo]

4 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

If Winston could get the picks under control, he never would have lost is job in the first place ... the guy has arm talent and is mobile 

 

If he got the turnovers under control, he'd be near top 5 QB status.

[cba fan]

3 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

I thought his brother did make the playoffs one year. The Raiders got knocked out the 1st round though if I remember correctly.

2016 Derek Carr broke his leg and did not play. Ironically Raiders lost to Texans, David's former team.

 

Raiders had a great chance to win if Carr plays as Brock Osweiler was Texans QB.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Did you know this? Peyton Manning threw 100 INTs his 1st 5 years in the NFL? 23 his 4th year. Winston has thrown 88.

 

Manning only threw 53 INTs the next 5 years.

 

 

True but misleading.  Manning threw his largest number of INTs his first season, 3 of the 4 seasons afterwards significantly better TD/INT ratio.

 

This past, 5th season was Winston’s worst.  He threw 33 TD, but his INTs soared to 30.  It’s the fact that he seems to be struggling to play productively while taking care of the football after 5 seasons that is of more concern.

 

 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So unprofessional Jameis is still better than professional David Carr. Jameis is a bit crazy. He always has been. 

 

Winston always threw picks. He did throw touchdowns too. That was the bit David Carr used to forget. 

 

buuuuut gunner why does any of that matter in the commentary of whether or not his trainer is giving him good workouts yet alone his marketing person sharing silly workouts? 
 

is Carr not allowed to talk about any players? Seems a silly standard 

[Richard Noggin]

I mean...that particular drill DOES look effing useless. 

 

About as useless as David Carr's analysis. And like Carr himself said: "two things can be true."

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Sure he had a crazy year last season, but he has 20k yards and 121 TDs in 70 starts.  In the NFL, that's a starting QB easily.

 

 

It's the fumbles, interceptions, and off the field stupidity that cost him his job and makes other teams uninterested in him.  When his supporters quote his stats, they need to look at the whole picture.  Turnovers lose games and Jameis cost his team a ton of games.  His four year history has him without a job.  Teams know who he is and what type of player he is.  He is certainly better than many backup QB's and can have a long career if he chooses to take that kind of job.

[Turk71]

Regardless of whether Carr is one to talk, that workout video is freaking hilarious.?

Hard to believe they posted that.

[Process]

Winston is awful and better suited for Canadian football or the WWE than the NFL. With that said Carr's criticism is childish and makes no sense, especially from a guy who had 0 success in the league.

[BurpleBull]

 

 

 

                       "The styling gel that keeps you cool under pressure".

 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

buuuuut gunner why does any of that matter in the commentary of whether or not his trainer is giving him good workouts yet alone his marketing person sharing silly workouts? 
 

is Carr not allowed to talk about any players? Seems a silly standard 

 

Jameis does silly workouts. David Carr is just plain silly. 

[purple haze]

9 hours ago, Turk71 said:

If the Bills didn't have Allen would you want Winston? I know I wouldn't. The upside is just not there. He is what he is at this point imo.

  I noticed he only has 7 4th qtr comebacks in 70 starts. Josh has 6 in 27. His record as a starter is 28-42. He's not eating enough Ws. 

Depends on the other options.  Over the likes of the Tannehill types?  Most definitely.  

[Buftex]

There is a place on a roster for Winston.  You don't have that kind of production, turnovers and all, and not wind up somewhere. How many teams has Fitz found a job with?  I think Chris Simms makes a great point in the video.  Some teams don't want a guy like Winston as a backup, because he is just too talented...he would create a QB controversy with some teams.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Buftex

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Sure he had a crazy year last season, but he has 20k yards and 121 TDs in 70 starts.  In the NFL, that's a starting QB easily.

 

 

 

Yeah? How about Dem INTs

[SoTier]

15 hours ago, FireChans said:

Tyrod is starting this season presumably, I’d much rather go into a game with Famous than that bum under center.

 

I don't get your and some other fans' blatant hatred -- and it is hatred -- for Taylor.   Tyrod Taylor is what he is -- a modestly talented QB who simply reached his plateau as an NFL QB which is competent backup -- and that hardly makes him not "a bum".   He was always a good team mate, even in trying circumstances.  He never criticized the Bills for how they handled his situation even after he left the team (which wasn't his decison BTW). 

 

If you feel the need to be angry at somebody over the Bills poor QB situation in recent years, I suggest you consider the individuals who put Taylor in the position to fail miserably as a Bills starting QB through their personnel and coaching decisions in 2017 and 2018:  Russ Brandon, Doug Whaley, Brandon Beane, Rex Ryan, and Sean McDermott.   Taylor did not name himself the starter.  He did not have a say in what offensives players the Bills did or did not draft or did or didn't re-sign any more than Josh Allen has. 

 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I don't get your and some other fans' blatant hatred -- and it is hatred -- for Taylor.   Tyrod Taylor is what he is -- a modestly talented QB who simply reached his plateau as an NFL QB which is competent backup -- and that hardly makes him not "a bum".   He was always a good team mate, even in trying circumstances.  He never criticized the Bills for how they handled his situation even after he left the team (which wasn't his decison BTW). 

 

If you feel the need to be angry at somebody over the Bills poor QB situation in recent years, I suggest you consider the individuals who put Taylor in the position to fail miserably as a Bills starting QB through their personnel and coaching decisions in 2017 and 2018:  Russ Brandon, Doug Whaley, Brandon Beane, Rex Ryan, and Sean McDermott.   Taylor did not name himself the starter.  He did not have a say in what offensives players the Bills did or did not draft or did or didn't re-sign any more than Josh Allen has. 

 

 

I don't have hate for any player but Tyrod is as close as you can get. Watching him play QB actually makes me miserable. And sports should be fun. 

2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Yeah? How about Dem INTs

 

He does throw too many picks. No question. But he isn't a complete bum. He can make plays. He is better than guys who will start next year. I'd still take him above Bridgewater and Tyrod for a kick off. I'd take above Fitz too as much as I love Fitz. 

 

Winston will have to sign somewhere as a backup though and wait his next chance. 

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Tampa Bays defense was bad in points allowed because ol crablegs gave the other team the ball inside the 40 2x per game. Their defense was low key very decent. PPG is not how you evaluate the defense of a team whose QB throws 30 picks.

 

The average opponent Offense drive LOS for Tampa was the 32.  The Best in the NFL was the 25.  The Bills was 28 (league average). 

 

TB had 194 Offensive possessions, 30 resulted in INTs. Of the 449 scored against TB, 36 were pick-six.

 

 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

It's the fumbles, interceptions, and off the field stupidity that cost him his job and makes other teams uninterested in him.  When his supporters quote his stats, they need to look at the whole picture.  Turnovers lose games and Jameis cost his team a ton of games.  His four year history has him without a job.  Teams know who he is and what type of player he is.  He is certainly better than many backup QB's and can have a long career if he chooses to take that kind of job.

 

I'm certainly no "supporter" of Winston.  But given his history of being wild with the ball, Arians still thought it would be a great idea to jack UP his attempts to, by far, a career high (for 16 games) of 626.  He came to TB and chose to build his Offense around Winton's weakness.  The outcome seems to have surprised Arians.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Yeah? How about Dem INTs

 

Good pickup...

[FireChans]

12 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I don't get your and some other fans' blatant hatred -- and it is hatred -- for Taylor.   Tyrod Taylor is what he is -- a modestly talented QB who simply reached his plateau as an NFL QB which is competent backup -- and that hardly makes him not "a bum".   He was always a good team mate, even in trying circumstances.  He never criticized the Bills for how they handled his situation even after he left the team (which wasn't his decison BTW). 

 

If you feel the need to be angry at somebody over the Bills poor QB situation in recent years, I suggest you consider the individuals who put Taylor in the position to fail miserably as a Bills starting QB through their personnel and coaching decisions in 2017 and 2018:  Russ Brandon, Doug Whaley, Brandon Beane, Rex Ryan, and Sean McDermott.   Taylor did not name himself the starter.  He did not have a say in what offensives players the Bills did or did not draft or did or didn't re-sign any more than Josh Allen has. 

 

I don’t hate Tyrod the man. There are very few players that I hate as people, that’s mostly reserved for the scumbags of the world. But I hate, yes HATE, Tyrod the player. He is like watching paint dry, but paint in a color you hate.

[KD in CA]

In Carr's defense, that drill does look pretty pointless.

 

But yes, of course someone will sign Winston.  Obviously he can play and would be a very high caliber #2.  I assume it's just a matter of his asking price dropping to a reasonable level at this stage.   

[hondo in seattle]

I don't get all the Carr criticism.  Just because the guy wasn't a great NFL QB, he doesn't have the right to criticize a current NFL QB?

 

Then I guess that none of us have the right to criticize any NFL QB - including David Carr.  

[ALF]

Jameis Winston undergoes LASIK eye surgery

 

Few operations could fit Winston better. Just months after he became the first quarterback to throw 30 touchdowns and 30 interceptions, Winston had his eyesight fixed. Likely gone are the photos of Winston squinting on the sideline, which often became memes. Perhaps the interceptions won't be as frequent, too.

 

There's no telling how much such an operation might help the nearsighted Winston.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001101946/article/jameis-winston-undergoes-lasik-eye-surgery

 

Some team could get lucky with him at a reasonable price.