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Josh Allen "Prove it" Season In Year 3


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Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Eh, I don’t agree on the wins.  Allen could have a better year, the defense could slip a better, and with a harder schedule, we might not win as much. So I don’t think that’s fair to put entirely on Allen. 

I only care about wins. I’m not as concerned about Allen putting stats as I am about him playing winning football. The defense might slip statistically , but they’re a unit that’s good enough to contend for a title. The offense hasn’t been good enough, but I think they’re closer now in terms of talent. Still questions at TE and RT, but they are getting close. The schedule is an unknown every year, regardless of what the prognosticators say. The end results might not be entirely on Allen, but his progress/ performance will have the biggest impact on the Bills season. 

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JA can’t do anything about the bad and predictable play calling. That alone would have won the WC game and we all know that. 
 

Adding Diggs is a HUGE upgrade over whatever player du jour was on the outside each week. It will also hold guys like Beasley accountable when he doesn’t fight for catchable balls. 
 

Execution on 3rd down is a HUGE need. I’d like to see him play with more urgency in those situations, doing whatever needs to be done to keep the offense on the field. That’s something that we all saw guys like Mahomes and Russell Wilson do time and time again all season, and both of them were late season MVP candidates. I would love to see JA take that leap and move into that tier of player. He’s shown he can do it late in the game. If he can do that on 3rd and long in the 2nd qtr, he won’t have to play out of his mind in the 4th. 
 

 

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13 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

Many on this site would like Josh to be cut immediately. That's the nature of fandom these days. But, he is making substantial progress regardless of what some fans think. Plus, he is a natural born leader and that's something we have not seen in quite a while. I like what I am seeing and hope his ceiling is where we all would like it to be.

Please find one post where anyone has said close to that.  

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Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Please find one post where anyone has said close to that.  

Find the guy who claimed Allen was a bottom 5 passer in all categories and then mysteriously disappeared after being proven wrong.

 

He's the one whose posts you were liking.

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1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

I don't think it's necessary to parse this, myself.

 

I'd say something like ... improve significantly and improve more as the season goes along. Be among the top half of all starters in 2020 and hopefully even a bit higher than that.

And be a guy who gives you confidence he's going to make the play with two minutes left and the game on the line.  Doesn't have to do it every time, but he has to look like he can and not make us wonder what good, bad or weird thing is about to happen. 

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10 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

And be a guy who gives you confidence he's going to make the play with two minutes left and the game on the line.  Doesn't have to do it every time, but he has to look like he can and not make us wonder what good, bad or weird thing is about to happen. 

He's already that guy tho

 

It's the other stuff he needs to work on

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39 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Off target is interesting too.  Allen is really high up there.  But Rodgers is because he throws the ball away a lot.  
 

imo, these stats need more context.  Not every drop is the same.  And not every off target throw is the same.  
 

allen needs to be more accurate.  If this year happens. I’m very excited because it should be a much tougher schedule and we be facing a ton more good qbs.  So there will be more pressure on the offense to score.  I hope Allen proves he is the guy. 

I mean he gets credit for being a winning qb because we have an awesome defense.  It goes both ways.  Too much blame and too much credit.  

Did the defense engineer all those 4th quarter game winning drives?

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23 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Find the guy who claimed Allen was a bottom 5 passer in all categories and then mysteriously disappeared after being proven wrong.

 

He's the one whose posts you were liking.

Did he say they should cut him?  Even if a guy is lower tier starting qb, he belongs on the roster.  Now a guy like Barkley, who is nice, can be cut.

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1 hour ago, longtimebillsfan said:

That is a tough question.  I hate to give up on him.  For me it depends on if he has showing improvement on other areas of his game.  IE: decision making, long through accuracy, and eliminating the panic plays where is turns the ball over when trying to do too much.

Yup I agree...I had explained during Allen’s first season that the fans would stay behind Josh’s low production so long as he kept improving...however, if he ever stopped improving, and still had low production, it was my opinion that that would be when fans would start to turn on him...

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It’s a big year for Allen and this offense. I definitely would not call him a franchise QB right now. My standards aren’t that low. The excuses have all but dried up. I’m looking forward to see if he can continue improving.

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2 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

I am a Josh Allen fan.  I believe that he has the physical gifts to be a generational quarterback.  I also am aware of his weaknesses.

 

Now that Josh has one of the best trio starting wide receivers in the league, what does he have to do to show that he is the Bills franchise quarterback?


I don’t think it’s necessarily related to a stat line (though it probably is) but I think we need to see Josh show that he’s capable of succeeding and scoring on good defenses.  I’d like to see him take over games - the way that Patrick Mahomes took over the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl.  We saw glimpses of this last season, but outside of the win against Dallas it’s hard to find a complete game from Allen

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2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

It’s a big year for Allen and this offense. I definitely would not call him a franchise QB right now. My standards aren’t that low. The excuses have all but dried up. I’m looking forward to see if he can continue improving.

This is a fair and measured take. 

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2 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Did the defense engineer all those 4th quarter game winning drives?

People really don’t get how this works?  When the offense struggles to score more than 14 points or so all game, the defense keeps us in the game.  The defense was the only reason the Jets didn’t blow us out in the opener with all the turnovers we had in the first half. 
 

mark Sanchez had 5 game owing drives in a season because the offense sucked most of the game but the defense kept the game close. 
 

pat mahomes nearly carried the 31st ranked defense to the SB.  Allen beat the Titans 14-7.  A little different than Mahomes coming back to beat the Lions 34-30, right?

5 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

It’s a big year for Allen and this offense. I definitely would not call him a franchise QB right now. My standards aren’t that low. The excuses have all but dried up. I’m looking forward to see if he can continue improving.

I don’t know how any rational fan could argue that. But 200 yards passing is a party for us now, so who knows?

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1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

People really don’t get how this works?  When the offense struggles to score more than 14 points or so all game, the defense keeps us in the game.  The defense was the only reason the Jets didn’t blow us out in the opener with all the turnovers we had in the first half. 
 

mark Sanchez had 5 game owing drives in a season because the offense sucked most of the game but the defense kept the game close. 
 

pat mahomes nearly carried the 31st ranked defense to the SB.  Allen beat the Titans 14-7.  A little different than Mahomes coming back to beat the Lions 34-30, right?

The other alternative is he could have completely fallen apart like Fitz would have or not had the talent to engineer a two minute offense like Tyrod. What do you want from the guy?  Haha. 
 

Bottom line is people who don’t like Allen will continue to make reasons why he came up clutch in late game situations more often than not. Heck, he even went the length of the field against Houston to tie the game and send it to OT. You can even argue that if Knox or Morse would have made a block on his keeper in Houston territory we would won that game. 
 

Another poster in this thread nailed it when he said Allen gets all the blame, which comes with being a qb. But please, for thelove of God,  give the kid some credit. It’s really sickening how people bash him to death in this board. 

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Allen HAS kept improving, had very little mental collapses. He has shown to be a leader, coachable, etc. He has thrown very little INTs. He does not need to improve that much to be a top tier QB. While a few parts of the D could have gotten older in a bad way, 2nd year of most of the OL together, better experience for Knox, Singletarry and Josh himself, and of course Diggs, wow, the potential is there. Add a couple of 1st downs per game and one deep ball every other game, and your mythical 300 ypg will happen. Barring injuries, always the potential monkey wrench, this offense could be a powerhouse IMO.

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2 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

The other alternative is he could have completely fallen apart like Fitz would have or not had the talent to engineer a two minute offense like Tyrod. What do you want from the guy?  Haha. 
 

Bottom line is people who don’t like Allen will continue to make reasons why he came up clutch in late game situations more often than not. Heck, he even went the length of the field against Houston to tie the game and send it to OT. You can even argue that if Knox or Morse would have made a block on his keeper in Houston territory we would won that game. 
 

Another poster in this thread nailed it when he said Allen gets all the blame, which comes with being a qb. But please, for thelove of God,  give the kid some credit. It’s really sickening how people bash him to death in this board. 

Where I’m at with Allen.  He has the luxury of playing with a very good defense that makes his margin of error much higher than most qbs.  I think a lot of qbs, say Andy Dalton, could have “lead” us to the playoffs last year.  It was a really good situations. 
 

that said, the dude is super talent and very exciting. Most of the time, the moment doesn’t look to big for him.  But he is very inconsistent and that really needs to improve this year.  Too many highs and lows.  Watch Brady highlights.  They are rarely super exciting but he is just maddeningly consistent.  That’s what we need Allen to be.  

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13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t know how any rational fan could argue that. But 200 yards passing is a party for us now, so who knows?


I’m not going to crap all over Allen as if everything was on him. It wouldn’t be fair.
 

I went back and watched every game from last year and it was painful to see how many drives were stalled or points were missed because of a breakdown on the o-line, a drop by a receiver or an off target throw from Allen. 


He desperately needs to fix the deep ball, be more efficient, and stop being a fumbling machine.

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1 hour ago, TuelTime said:

How much would you pay Josh Allen if he were a FA today? 10, 15, 20 mil a year??

 

Russell Wilson gets 35 a year, Tom Brady just got 25, and Tyrod and Fitz are at 5.5.

 

He already makes 5.2 a year so I doubt he would take less than that, but in your most objective opinion, how much do you think Josh Allen is worth? How many years and how much guaranteed? Teddy Bridgewater just got 21 million a year.. Has Josh shown enough yet to be worth more than Bridgewater?

 

 

I would pay him the contract we initially offered Tyrod...18-20 mil per year...

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1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Where I’m at with Allen.  He has the luxury of playing with a very good defense that makes his margin of error much higher than most qbs.  I think a lot of qbs, say Andy Dalton, could have “lead” us to the playoffs last year.  It was a really good situations. 
 

that said, the dude is super talent and very exciting. Most of the time, the moment doesn’t look to big for him.  But he is very inconsistent and that really needs to improve this year.  Too many highs and lows.  Watch Brady highlights.  They are rarely super exciting but he is just maddeningly consistent.  That’s what we need Allen to be.  

This is fair. I thought the moment looked way too big for him in the second half of the Houston game. I rewatched it the other day since there is nothing better to do. You can see it in his eyes. They were as big as dinner plates. That sort of went against everything else he did last year. I thought he stayed composed most of the time, but that moment just got too big. 
 

The good news is he’s still only gonna be 24 and he was never drafted as a finished product. He is going to be working with the most talented offense he’s ever had at any level, and he’s gotten plenty of experience the last few years. He has a tendency to improve on his weaknesses and I have little doubt his deeper throws will improve this year. 
 

Another poster and I talk all the time about Allen’s clutch ability. He seems to have it. Not all qbs do, but when the game is on the line, we both feel VERY confident he’ll deliver. He has more often than not.

 

You brought up Brady. While Allen isn’t as refined, he has that burning desire to be great like Brady. I just don’t see that with all the other young QBs. Most of them seem to be satisfied with just being in the league. Allen really couldn’t care about anything less than wins. That’s got to speak for something. 

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3 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

This is fair. I thought the moment looked way too big for him in the second half of the Houston game. I rewatched it the other day since there is nothing better to do. You can see it in his eyes. They were as big as dinner plates. That sort of went against everything else he did last year. I thought he stayed composed most of the time, but that moment just got too big. 
 

The good news is he’s still only gonna be 24 and he was never drafted as a finished product. He is going to be working with the most talented offense he’s ever had at any level, and he’s gotten plenty of experience the last few years. He has a tendency to improve on his weaknesses and I have little doubt his deeper throws will improve this year. 
 

Another poster and I talk all the time about Allen’s clutch ability. He seems to have it. Not all qbs do, but when the game is on the line, we both feel VERY confident he’ll deliver. He has more often than not.

 

You brought up Brady. While Allen isn’t as refined, he has that burning desire to be great like Brady. I just don’t see that with all the other young QBs. Most of them seem to be satisfied with just being in the league. Allen really couldn’t care about anything less than wins. That’s got to speak for something. 

I could nitpick but good post.  The crazy thing about the Houston game was the first half was the most impressed with him that I have ever been.  Then, the second half happened.  That’s where the consistency needs to happen.

 

the best description of watching Allen is he is like a drug.  Many highs and many lows ? 

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3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I could nitpick but good post.  The crazy thing about the Houston game was the first half was the most impressed with him that I have ever been.  Then, the second half happened.  That’s where the consistency needs to happen.

 

the best description of watching Allen is he is like a drug.  Many highs and many lows ? 

Yeah and the first half should have been better. IMO, Brown had terrible footwork on the one sideline incompletion and his throw to Duke in the end zone was on the money. We should have been up more than we were at the half. 
 

The second half was maddening. He played terrible most of the half and  then sprung to life again when the game was on the line to tie it. I still think Daboll had a completely atrocious game plan for the second half. He was almost surely playing not to lose. The problem was, Watson and Allen switched in the second half. Where Allen was great in the first half, Watson was even better in the second. Our defense couldn’t stop him. He literally did just about anything he wanted to do. 

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2 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

The offense has to get out of the teens when it comes to points per game.

 

But importantly Allen just needs to start making it happen when it needs to happen.  But that is just the standard all top QBs are held to.  So it’s a fair ask.

Actually, the Bills did pretty well in the fourth quarter this past year, albeit against a weak schedule.   Gonna be a lot tougher schedule this year.  So, 10-6 again might convince me.

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This is what aggravates me about people who are evaluate Allen.

 

Do you people realize that he has basically been a one man gang all of his football life?

 

Do you people realize he was a project who was supposed to sit and learn the QB position his first two years before he saw the field?

 

Now, I am not saying he is the perfect QB by any means, but his improvement from year one to year two was amazing.

 

He also has the talent, work ethic and leadership skills to be awesome.

 

He needs to read the blitz better (which only comes with experience) and he has to have better mechanics when you throws the deep ball, He rushes it. But we saw him connect more by the end of the season.

 

Allen's improvement is second, because I have faith he can do it. 

 

The most important improvement on the entire team in 2020 has to be from Cody Ford. The Bills showed faith in him by not bringing in a FA. Now he needs to reward the team's faith in him and become a reliable pass blocker for Allen.

18 minutes ago, Bangarang said:


I’m not going to crap all over Allen as if everything was on him. It wouldn’t be fair.
 

I went back and watched every game from last year and it was painful to see how many drives were stalled or points were missed because of a breakdown on the o-line, a drop by a receiver or an off target throw from Allen. 


He desperately needs to fix the deep ball, be more efficient, and stop being a fumbling machine.

 

I noticed rewatching these games that Beasley barely got called out for his amazing amount of drops for a supposed sure-handed guy.

 

I think Beasley will be better though in 2020 when it comes to drops.

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3 minutes ago, njbuff said:

This is what aggravates me about people who are evaluate Allen.

 

Do you people realize that he has basically been a one man gang all of his football life?

 

Do you people realize he was a project who was supposed to sit and learn the QB position his first two years before he saw the field?

 

Now, I am not saying he is the perfect QB by any means, but his improvement from year one to year two was amazing.

 

He also has the talent, work ethic and leadership skills to be awesome.

 

He needs to read the blitz better (which only comes with experience) and he has to have better mechanics when you throws the deep ball, He rushes it. But we saw him connect more by the end of the season.

 

Allen's improvement is second, because I have faith he can do it. 

 

The most important improvement on the entire team in 2020 has to be from Cody Ford. The Bills showed faith in him by not bringing in a FA. Now he needs to reward the team's faith in him and become a reliable pass blocker for Allen.

 

I noticed rewatching these games that Beasley barely got called out for his amazing amount of drops for a supposed sure-handed guy.

 

I think Beasley will be better though in 2020 when it comes to drops.

This has long been an argument of mine. Allen never had decent talent around him in his entire high school, junior college, or college career. It can be argued that the talent around him his rookie year sucked too. Last year the talent was way better and he showed marked improvements. This year, he has a legit offensive infrastructure around him so the first time in his life he will be working with an offense that has the pieces to keep up with any team. 

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2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

You mean once I think for like 3 seconds about how he wouldn't have been 'bottom 5 in most passing categories' if his receivers had dropped his passes at just an average NFL rate? Yeah pretty easy

8 passes wasn't going to make that happen. That's all that separated them from the average. It's a problem, but so is he. 

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Just now, whorlnut said:

This has long been an argument of mine. Allen never had decent talent around him in his entire high school, junior college, or college career. It can be argued that the talent around him his rookie year sucked too. Last year the talent was way better and he showed marked improvements. This year, he has a legit offensive infrastructure around him so the first time in his life he will be working with an offense that has the pieces to keep up with any team. 

 

People forget that Allen played well in Pittsburgh and New England to finish out the season.

 

And he brought the Bills back against Houston when all the momentum was against them on the final drive, including the biggest bonehead play of his career.

 

The kid is a gamer and I am counting on another big step forward in year 3.

 

Problem is everyone wants Allen to be great right away like Marino and Mahomes, for example. Thing is, guys like them are the exception and not the rule. 99% of NFL QB's need time to develop their games. Case closed.

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2 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

process faster

not lose his mechanics when their needed most

know the routes and throw to spots, stop relying on your arm to get it there

throw the receivers open

stop fumbling

 

In other words (for me anyway), just keep getting better. Make more progress. It won’t be perfection, but if he keeps getting better I’m good. 

 

I won’t say X for completion % or yards or TD’s. There are too many variable beyond his control. Just keep getting better Josh. 

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57 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Yup I agree...I had explained during Allen’s first season that the fans would stay behind Josh’s low production so long as he kept improving...however, if he ever stopped improving, and still had low production, it was my opinion that that would be when fans would start to turn on him...

You are most likely correct.  This will be a high pressure year for Allen.   It will be interesting to see how he handles it.

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14 minutes ago, njbuff said:

This is what aggravates me about people who are evaluate Allen.

 

Do you people realize that he has basically been a one man gang all of his football life?

 

Do you people realize he was a project who was supposed to sit and learn the QB position his first two years before he saw the field?

 

Now, I am not saying he is the perfect QB by any means, but his improvement from year one to year two was amazing.

 

He also has the talent, work ethic and leadership skills to be awesome.

 

He needs to read the blitz better (which only comes with experience) and he has to have better mechanics when you throws the deep ball, He rushes it. But we saw him connect more by the end of the season.

 

Allen's improvement is second, because I have faith he can do it. 

 

The most important improvement on the entire team in 2020 has to be from Cody Ford. The Bills showed faith in him by not bringing in a FA. Now he needs to reward the team's faith in him and become a reliable pass blocker for Allen.

 

I noticed rewatching these games that Beasley barely got called out for his amazing amount of drops for a supposed sure-handed guy.

 

I think Beasley will be better though in 2020 when it comes to drops.

Unless he stops playing like a one man gang he'll not reach his potential and neither will the team.

 

The reason you mention, intact offense with one big exception (Diggs) and soon to be chosen complementary RB is the exact reason why the pressure is indeed on Josh Allen.  He has one season to prove it or the team is going to be forced to bring in competition in 2021.  He is either going to command big bucks or he won't and Beane needs to know by the end of the 2020 season.

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1 minute ago, Cripple Creek said:

Unless he stops playing like a one man gang he'll not reach his potential and neither will the team.

 

The reason you mention, intact offense with one big exception (Diggs) and soon to be chosen complementary RB is the exact reason why the pressure is indeed on Josh Allen.  He has one season to prove it or the team is going to be forced to bring in competition in 2021.  He is either going to command big bucks or he won't and Beane needs to know by the end of the 2020 season.

 

I have every confidence that he will learn to not be a one man gang anymore and trust his teammates.

 

Which means, I have every confidence he is the man to lead this team for the next 12-15 years.

 

If I am wrong, I will take responsibility for him failing. ?

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58 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:


I don’t think it’s necessarily related to a stat line (though it probably is) but I think we need to see Josh show that he’s capable of succeeding and scoring on good defenses.  I’d like to see him take over games - the way that Patrick Mahomes took over the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl.  We saw glimpses of this last season, but outside of the win against Dallas it’s hard to find a complete game from Allen

You are most likely correct. The Bills need to remove the constraints on Allen and see what he can do unfettered.  This could be an interesting year.

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