Huge Bills contingent at Clemson pro day

[MJS]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

So which is it 4.4 or 4.56

Have to remember that the difference is miniscule. The difference could be just a slight hesitation in the get off.

[RyanC883]

54 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Injury prone? Is that true? Seems like he didn’t miss many if any games in college. He got pulled from the fiesta bowl for concussion protocol but came back. What else ... I admittedly did no research 

 

i wrote seems because he does not appear to engage in physical play.  I thought he was pulled from the bowl game due to a hamstring issue--i could be wrong.  (likely).  

 

I just prefer a WR who is more physical if he's big.  Again, I have no problem drafting him, (was very pro Higgins a while ago and people roasted me for suggesting we pick him at 22), but now there are other WR's I'd take ahead of him.  Of course, I'm not Bean! 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

i wrote seems because he does not appear to engage in physical play.  I thought he was pulled from the bowl game due to a hamstring issue--i could be wrong.  (likely).  

 

I just prefer a WR who is more physical if he's big.  Again, I have no problem drafting him, (was very pro Higgins a while ago and people roasted me for suggesting we pick him at 22), but now there are other WR's I'd take ahead of him.  Of course, I'm not Bean! 

They took his helmet away and announced it was concussion but guess he got cleared at the half 

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

They took his helmet away and announced it was concussion but guess he got cleared at the half 

 

Thanks!  I had no clue.  But,  don't blame me. Blame my kids bedtime, and the fact I didn't really care who won, so my concentration was not great. 

 

 

[dje85]

34 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

I will be bummed if we pick Higgins, just have no love for this guy. Gets dinged up, not good a releasing, can suffer from the dropsies, not great at seperation, not great at YAC = not what I want, especially at 22

 

Dropsies? Not sure we watched the same wr. The kid has sure hands. 

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, dje85 said:

 

Dropsies? Not sure we watched the same wr. The kid has sure hands. 

Didn't say it was all the time, but he has had some concetration drops here and there and hoenstly, the bills have enough of those types of players

[NewEra]

Just now, Reed83HOF said:

Didn't say it was all the time, but he has had some concetration drops here and there and hoenstly, the bills have enough of those types of players

Every wr has.  He has great hands. 

[Reed83HOF]

Just now, NewEra said:

Every wr has.  He has great hands. 

Just my opinion, we can do a lot better at #22. Of the tier 2 WR prospects, my least favorite one

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

I will be bummed if we pick Higgins, just have no love for this guy. Gets dinged up, not good a releasing, can suffer from the dropsies, not great at seperation, not great at YAC = not what I want, especially at 22

He gets dinged up?  Did you watch one Clemson game, the NCG and decide this?  He hasn’t missed a game in 2 years.

 

He has great hands.

 

he’s very good RAC

 

he has solid separation at the top of his routes

 

I don’t understand this post.  

 

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by NewEra

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

The 4.43 is faster than anyone on Earth expected...?

 

Except Tee btw...Who said he would run in the 4.4's...And it looks like he did...At least once...?

It's all hand timed at pro days.. there are huge inconsistencies between scouts timing

 

There's a reason he didn't wanna be laser timed and I don't buy lack of time

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

I will be bummed if we pick Higgins, just have no love for this guy. Gets dinged up, not good a releasing, can suffer from the dropsies, not great at seperation, not great at YAC = not what I want, especially at 22

I don't really agree with any of that tbh. I think he's at worst adequate in terms of releasing, has some of the best hands in the class, and shockingly good in terms of YAC ability.

[Putin]

2 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I don't really agree with any of that tbh. I think he's at worst adequate in terms of releasing, has some of the best hands in the class, and shockingly good in terms of YAC ability.

Not a big fan of Higgins  injuries scare me , I would love J Jefferson to fall to us at 22 , but I don’t believe he makes it past Philly ... 

BTW he’s my favorite WR of this class , 

[Warcodered]

14 minutes ago, Putin said:

Not a big fan of Higgins  injuries scare me , I would love J Jefferson to fall to us at 22 , but I don’t believe he makes it past Philly ... 

BTW he’s my favorite WR of this class , 

What injuries I tried looking it up and all I found is the one from the last bowl game that he came back into the game from.

[KOKBILLS]

41 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's all hand timed at pro days.. there are huge inconsistencies between scouts timing

 

There's a reason he didn't wanna be laser timed and I don't buy lack of time

 

So he's slow, and manipulative I guess?...?

[Reed83HOF]

56 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He gets signed up?  Did you watch one Clemson game, the NCG and decide this?  He hasn’t missed a game in 2 years.

 

He has great hands.

 

he’s very good RAC

 

he has solid separation at the top of his routes

 

I don’t understand this post.  

 

 

He misses time during the games, my best friend went to Clemson and is a huge fan (I have watched enough games), personally I see a Will Fuller type player in him.

 

What he does have:

 

1.) good catch radius

2.) makes contested catches

3.) body control

4.) good on the outside

 

What he doesn't have:

 

1.) struggles in tight spaces (dropsies) and

2.) does not get good separation,

3.) YAC is based on big plays and not on stopping making a defender miss and taking it to the house

4.) limited route tree - is this based on slower agility and he can only be effective on the outside (as Beane says are the coaches protecting the player?)

5.) double digit receptions 

 

 What we are missing on the team

 

1.) Separation

2.) YAC

3.) consistent catching

 

What Daboll requires:

 

1.) good route tree

2.) I am going to generalize here, but the WR needs to have a brain in his skull to read the D and change their route

 

Where I struggle is:

 

1.) a limited route tree (by far better on the outside than in,

2.) doesn't make players miss

3.) most of his success (stats) have been on downfield plays, which is not a staple of our offense. Josh as of now is a short and mid throw passer, our OL is not great and we want to get the ball out of his hands quicker. A slower WR who seems to be an outside only guy who plays better with the long ball than the short =/= what we are doing on offense. There are simply better players who fit the mold

 

Edit: forgot to mention this - Is he CJ Spiller/Sammy level clemson intelligent?

Edited March 12, 2020 by Reed83HOF

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

So he's slow, and manipulative I guess?...?

I wouldn't say slow

 

It just looks better to run a 4.43 handtimed , than run a 4.51 laser

[BillsFan17]

30 minutes ago, Putin said:

Not a big fan of Higgins  injuries scare me , I would love J Jefferson to fall to us at 22 , but I don’t believe he makes it past Philly ... 

BTW he’s my favorite WR of this class , 

Injuries? He played 15 games back to back years... being dinged up is not the same as being legit injured. Every player gets dinged up.

Edited March 12, 2020 by BillsFan17

[Reed83HOF]

36 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I don't really agree with any of that tbh. I think he's at worst adequate in terms of releasing, has some of the best hands in the class, and shockingly good in terms of YAC ability.

how are his hands when he isn't outside and is in tight space? How is is YAC on shorter throws? The way he gets free in college - how does that translate in the NFL? I have concerns here

[BillsFan17]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

how are his hands when he isn't outside and is in tight space? How is is YAC on shorter throws? The way he gets free in college - how does that translate in the NFL? I have concerns here

Higgins did have a high volume of broken tackles. While he isnt overly explosive, he does have a physical element that allowed him to make plays with the ball in his hands.

[Reed83HOF]

6 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

Higgins did have a high volume of broken tackles. While he isnt overly explosive, he does have a physical element that allowed him to make plays with the ball in his hands.

 

I don't disgaree, he is huge in terms of size and a phsyical WR.  I also think him getting dinged could be related to needing a bit more muscle on his frame...

 

We have no explosive playmakers on our offense, which is an issue. If you look at how we run our offense, as of now (have no ccue how we are looking to evolve it). Get the ball out of Josh's hands quickly and WRs being able to read the D and adjust their routes - you need good  quick separtation...

 

I fail to see him as the best fit at 22 with the other tier 2 WRs on the board; the same basic reasoning why I am down on Shenault as well. 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Reed83HOF

[par73]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

I will be bummed if we pick Higgins, just have no love for this guy. Gets dinged up, not good a releasing, can suffer from the dropsies, not great at seperation, not great at YAC = not what I want, especially at 22

Don't want to beat up on the guy too much (I've made several posts about him already), but I feel the same way.

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, par73 said:

Don't want to beat up on the guy too much (I've made several posts about him already), but I feel the same way.

I mean I don't hate him, just not a great for for us and see a skill vs need/want mismatch.

 

[NewEra]

18 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

He misses time during the games, my best friend went to Clemson and is a huge fan (I have watched enough games), personally I see a Will Fuller type player in him.

 

What he does have:

 

1.) good catch radius

2.) makes contested catches

3.) body control

4.) good on the outside

 

What he doesn't have:

 

1.) struggles in tight spaces (dropsies) and

2.) does not get good separation,

3.) YAC is based on big plays and not on stopping making a defender miss and taking it to the house

4.) limited route tree - is this based on slower agility and he can only be effective on the outside (as Beane says are the coaches protecting the player?)

5.) double digit receptions 

 

 What we are missing on the team

 

1.) Separation

2.) YAC

3.) consistent catching

 

What Daboll requires:

 

1.) good route tree

2.) I am going to generalize here, but the WR needs to have a brain in his skull to read the D and change their route

 

Where I struggle is:

 

1.) a limited route tree (by far better on the outside than in,

2.) doesn't make players miss

3.) most of his success (stats) have been on downfield plays, which is not a staple of our offense. Josh as of now is a short and mid throw passer, our OL is not great and we want to get the ball out of his hands quicker. A slower WR who seems to be an outside only guy who plays better with the long ball than the short =/= what we are doing on offense. There are simply better players who fit the mold

 

Edit: forgot to mention this - Is he CJ Spiller/Sammy level clemson intelligent?

We could also use some height at WR.  A wr that is always open, regardless of separation.  He IS that.  He has tremendous hands and catches almost everything in his grasp (minus some lapses on easy grabs).  
 

I think his RAC is under appreciated to be honest.  It’s not great but he knows how to maximize yardage from what I’ve seen. 
 

When you have those hands and that size you don’t always need separation.

 

i get it.  You want more explosiveness and there are more explosive WRs in this draft.  Makes sense, I don’t blame you.  I just think Higgins is better than you  think he is.
 

A lot will depend on his QBs ability (as is with many WRs).   Allen might not be a good fit if he can’t get it close.  He’s gonna need a qb that can get it within range.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[BillsFan17]

Moreover, Higgins had six drops (out of 120 catchable balls) over two years, not sure where the narrative started that he has issues catching the ball.

[Lurker]

15 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

I mean I don't hate him, just not a great for for us and see a skill vs need/want mismatch.

 

 

Nor do I hate him.   I just don't want him at #22.

 

Now if he falls into Round 2, I won't feel bad if Beane trades up to get him in the #35-40 range, where I feel his value is more appropriate.

 

Just don't overdraft for need, which I trust this front office (if not TSW) to do...

[Reed83HOF]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

We could also use some height at WR.  A wr that is always open, regardless of separation.  He IS that.  He has tremendous hands and catches almost everything in his grasp (minus some lapses on easy grabs).  
 

I think his RAC is under appreciated to be honest.  It’s not great but he knows how to maximize yardage from what I’ve seen. 
 

When you have those hands and that size you don’t always need separation.

 

i get it.  You want more explosiveness and there are more explosive WRs in this draft.  Makes sense, I don’t blame you.  I just think Higgins is better than you  think he is.
 

A lot will depend on his QBs ability (as is with many WRs).   Allen might not be a good fit if he can’t get it close.  He’s gonna need a qb that can get it within range.

 

With your top point on size and always open - I used to feel that way as well. I think I have evolved past that though. I need someone who can separate and catch. As McD says, I want someone who can catch the ball - we have had too many drops (higgins catches the ball). IIRC, Josh is better when he gets rid of the ball in under 2.5 seconds - so knowing what route to run based on the D (and be able to go in or out) and be open in 2.5 seconds is a skill I am looking highly at right now. In that short time frame, making a catch in tight quarters and being able to accelerate to generate YAC and make some people miss is at the top of my list for needs in a WR.

 

When I hear a WR who is big and open regardless of speartation I envision that player as the QBs best friend, a TE, which is where I like that profile a lot, someone who can be mean like Knox (when he holds on to the ball).

 

It's not that I don't like Higgins, just feel he isn't a match skill wise for what I see at least. I think he will be a solid WR in the NFL. 

[IgotBILLStopay]

4 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Simpson is a MAN.

Simpson completely neutralized Quinnen Williams in last year's championship game. But .. he was not so good at the Senior bowl. So which Simpson will we get? I dont mind using a 4th rounder on him at all. Can probably fill in for Spain.

[KOKBILLS]

54 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I wouldn't say slow

 

It just looks better to run a 4.43 handtimed , than run a 4.51 laser

 

Fair enough...?

[NewEra]

19 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

With your top point on size and always open - I used to feel that way as well. I think I have evolved past that though. I need someone who can separate and catch. As McD says, I want someone who can catch the ball - we have had too many drops (higgins catches the ball). IIRC, Josh is better when he gets rid of the ball in under 2.5 seconds - so knowing what route to run based on the D (and be able to go in or out) and be open in 2.5 seconds is a skill I am looking highly at right now. In that short time frame, making a catch in tight quarters and being able to accelerate to generate YAC and make some people miss is at the top of my list for needs in a WR.

 

When I hear a WR who is big and open regardless of speartation I envision that player as the QBs best friend, a TE, which is where I like that profile a lot, someone who can be mean like Knox (when he holds on to the ball).

 

It's not that I don't like Higgins, just feel he isn't a match skill wise for what I see at least. I think he will be a solid WR in the NFL. 

I feel Josh is wants a big target.  Duke actually plays vs the Texans and leads the team in targets with 10.  Maybe that was due to the Texans scheme, regardless, he threw the big mans way.  
 

I really like mims too.  Wouldn’t be upset if we took him before Tee.  Lots to like in this draft.  I think we’re going to get exactly the guy Beane and McD want.  
 

 

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

He misses time during the games, my best friend went to Clemson and is a huge fan (I have watched enough games), personally I see a Will Fuller type player in him.

 

What he does have:

 

1.) good catch radius

2.) makes contested catches

3.) body control

4.) good on the outside

 

What he doesn't have:

 

1.) struggles in tight spaces (dropsies) and

2.) does not get good separation,

3.) YAC is based on big plays and not on stopping making a defender miss and taking it to the house

4.) limited route tree - is this based on slower agility and he can only be effective on the outside (as Beane says are the coaches protecting the player?)

5.) double digit receptions 

 

 What we are missing on the team

 

1.) Separation

2.) YAC

3.) consistent catching

 

What Daboll requires:

 

1.) good route tree

2.) I am going to generalize here, but the WR needs to have a brain in his skull to read the D and change their route

 

Where I struggle is:

 

1.) a limited route tree (by far better on the outside than in,

2.) doesn't make players miss

3.) most of his success (stats) have been on downfield plays, which is not a staple of our offense. Josh as of now is a short and mid throw passer, our OL is not great and we want to get the ball out of his hands quicker. A slower WR who seems to be an outside only guy who plays better with the long ball than the short =/= what we are doing on offense. There are simply better players who fit the mold

 

Edit: forgot to mention this - Is he CJ Spiller/Sammy level clemson intelligent?

Sammy it appears is s flat earther, not that many people are that willfully ignorant, so there is hope for Tee...

[Buffalo Junction]

4 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

With your top point on size and always open - I used to feel that way as well. I think I have evolved past that though. I need someone who can separate and catch. As McD says, I want someone who can catch the ball - we have had too many drops (higgins catches the ball). IIRC, Josh is better when he gets rid of the ball in under 2.5 seconds - so knowing what route to run based on the D (and be able to go in or out) and be open in 2.5 seconds is a skill I am looking highly at right now. In that short time frame, making a catch in tight quarters and being able to accelerate to generate YAC and make some people miss is at the top of my list for needs in a WR.

 

When I hear a WR who is big and open regardless of speartation I envision that player as the QBs best friend, a TE, which is where I like that profile a lot, someone who can be mean like Knox (when he holds on to the ball).

 

It's not that I don't like Higgins, just feel he isn't a match skill wise for what I see at least. I think he will be a solid WR in the NFL. 

This basically sums up my sentiments on the matter. I think that as a whole we should be focusing on the wideouts with QB experience, advanced route running, exceptional separation skills, and/ experience in Daboll’s system. 

[JaCrispy]

Trade down... 

[Chicken Boo]

Higgins is my guy at #22.  That won't change between now and the draft. 

 

He can be for Allen what Plaxico was for Eli.  

[MrEpsYtown]

10 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Remember this tweet, CLEARLY the Bills have an interest. You aren’t bringing your OL coach unless there was someone you wanted him to see up close. 

Reminds me of McDermott working Ed Oliver to death on all those d line drills at his pro day. 

[Locomark]

11 hours ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

Maybe so...I know folks like Mims more for example, and he's got pretty good height and length as well as more explosion...No doubt you will not get a consensus on Drafting Tee...Especially at #22...

 

However I do get the feeling that is exactly what the Bills are going to do...I watched him a ton last year...Seemed open a lot to me and Lawrence threw it to him regardless...I have no issues with Tee assuming they don't take him ahead of the top 3 WR's......But I fully understand those who do, and why they do...We'll just have to see...?

Tee made a lot of catches that were off the Mark where Lawrence but the ball in awkward positions or off his stride....sound familiar?

[YoloinOhio]

11 minutes ago, Locomark said:

Tee made a lot of catches that were off the Mark where Lawrence but the ball in awkward positions or off his stride....sound familiar?

Yes there were frequent bailouts for Trev’s inaccuracies and “yolo” (no relation) passes 

Edited March 13, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[billsbackto81]

19 hours ago, hjnick said:

Now we know why he was tired at the combine...

 

Does this push him back in the WR line???  2nd round now?

Larry Fitzgerald 4.63

Jerry Rice 4.71

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Larry Fitzgerald    2004

Jerry Rice   1985

 

Fixed...

[John from Riverside]

Fine with Higgins at 22

he absolutely feels a need