HOUSE Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 The Buffalo Bills are going to let free agent defensive tackle Jordan Phillips test free agency this spring reports John Wawrow of the Associated Press. While both sides “enjoyed his two seasons in Buffalo”, they don’t expect to stay together for a third or beyond. “[The] thinking behind decision is question of how much Bills can spend because they have to focus on re-signing others,” continued Wawrow. We projected that this was how the story was going to play out when we looked at Phillips in January. With Ed Oliver ready to step up in his second season and be the lead 3-tech, there was no need to re-sign Phillips to a massive free agent contract. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2020/2/22/21148528/buffalo-bills-going-to-let-dt-jordan-phillips-test-free-agency-2020 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Beane pretty much announced this at the end of season presser. “He’s earned the right the test the market” 10 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 This doesn’t mean they didn’t offer him a contract, just that they didn’t agree, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Beane pretty much announced this at the end of season presser. “He’s earned the right the test the market” Should be interesting to see if Brandon Beane says the same to Tre White & Josh Allen when the time comes .. Edited February 22, 2020 by HOUSE 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Just now, HOUSE said: Should be interesting to see if Brandon Beane says the same about Tre White & Josh Allen when the time comes What are the similarities between them and Jordan Phillips? 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 He’s been great for us! Loves playing with the Bills and a big playmaker from the day he signed. These type of players are hard to find. 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moulds 808080 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 If any one has been at a game a saw him in action they would be as bummed as I am if we are truly letting him walk. The guy is the biggest cheerleader getting crowd going!!! I was fortunate to go to Houston and Miami games on the road and he constantly is spinning towel in air and pump fisting. I totally agree with Chandler#81. 4 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) It will be interesting to see when he gets on the market. And if it’s reasonable, will he allow the Bills to match it? But smart move on the Bills’ part. With Ed Oliver expected to dominate next year and horrible Harry coming back, to go with Star and Vincent Taylor, they don’t need to offer him a ridiculous deal to stay. Edited February 22, 2020 by Doc 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Can't sign every player you like to a big long term deal. That's how the system works. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Seems like the smart move to me. If some team wants to overpay based on his sack numbers from this past season, let them. If the market Phillips is expecting isn’t there, then they can discuss bringing him back on a deal that would be more in line with his position as a rotational DT in this system. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 23 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: What are the similarities between them and Jordan Phillips? I was referring to having the right to explore free agency Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Really torn here. Jordan is a good player who loves Buffalo. But with Harrison returning on a smaller deal and with Ed's contract down the road we can't tie up that kind of money on both DT's. Maybe we snag him if the market sours some? But it's time to spend money on the offense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushypeaches Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, Moulds 808080 said: If any one has been at a game a saw him in action they would be as bummed as I am if we are truly letting him walk. The guy is the biggest cheerleader getting crowd going!!! I was fortunate to go to Houston and Miami games on the road and he constantly is spinning towel in air and pump fisting. I totally agree with Chandler#81. Yes!!! Let's overpay for a guy who got released by the Dolphins, will likely not put up the stats again that he did this year, and will cost a fortune to hold onto at the same position we just drafted a guy in the first round... But but but, he's a "chearleader" and loves Buffalo. That'll come in handy later when we can't re-sign our really talented draft picks to second contracts! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Doc said: It will be interesting to see when he gets on the market. And if it’s reasonable, will he allow the Bills to match it? But smart move on the Bills’ heart. With Ed Oliver expected to dominate next year and horrible Harry coming back, to go with Star and Vincent Taylor, they don’t need to offer him a ridiculous deal to stay. I would think so. It seems Beane is being honest, upfront and fair with Phillips. He's kind of a hard guy to judge his worth. I'm sure Beane has a limit to what he is worth to the team but if Phillips can command a lot more from someone else then good for him. I'm still hopeful that in the end he stays a Bill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, HOUSE said: I was referring to having the right to explore free agency I can’t imagine he will be making statements like that about homegrown cornerstone players at critical positions? With Allen, if he performs that well, he won’t be close to ever testing the market. He is Beane’s guy, through and through. He would be extended before becoming a FA. The thought process doesn’t make sense. He didn’t draft White, but McDermott did, and the Pegulas have made him a face of the franchise. I don’t see similarities here at all with Phillips. Jordan Phillips was a guy they signed off of waivers who did well (at times) in this scheme but isn’t a critical position they need to overpay for. Edited February 22, 2020 by YoloinOhio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said: I can’t imagine he will be making statements like that about homegrown cornerstone players at critical positions? With Allen, if he performs that well, he won’t be close to ever testing the market. He is Beane’s guy, through and through. He would be extended before becoming a FA. The thought process doesn’t make sense. He didn’t draft White, but McDermott did, and the Pegulas have made him a face of the franchise. I don’t see similarities here at all with Phillips. Jordan Phillips was a guy they signed off of waivers who did well (at times) in this scheme but isn’t a critical position they need to overpay for. Does Josh Allen & Tre White have the right to explore free agency ? Of course they do but I doubt Brandon Beane will let them hit the open market Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 19 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: This doesn’t mean they didn’t offer him a contract, just that they didn’t agree, right? The good working assumption is that we would like to have Phillips back, and had initial talks with his agent which were too far apart to proceed to a contract. Phillips said something in a tweet about statistically being a top-3 (or maybe top-5) DT in the league. That's Cox-Jarrett-Atkins money, meaning he sees himself as $17M AAV or 4 yr/$68M. My guess is the Bills would see him as more an $8M AAV ($7-10M), 3 yr/$26M kind of guy. (~ what Spotrac suggests as his market value) So letting Phillips test the market is the obvious move. If he finds teams lining up to take him for $17M/4 yr $68M the Bills wish him the best, and I'm not sure they're making a mistake. OTOH, if he finds teams offering him ~$9M/3 yr/$30M it would be a bit disappointing to me if the Bills wouldn't counter. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 20 minutes ago, Doc said: It will be interesting to see when he gets on the market. And if it’s reasonable, will he allow the Bills to match it? But smart move on the Bills’ heart. With Ed Oliver expected to dominate next year and horrible Harry coming back, to go with Star and Vincent Taylor, they don’t need to offer him a ridiculous deal to stay. Can someone say more about Vincent Taylor, because I haven't heard much? I know he's a 6th round pick who spent 2 years with the Dolphins where he struggled with injuries before being waived at roster cutdown, and that we signed him to our practice squad then activated him in November when we decided Kyle Peko just wasn't getting it done. I don't even know if he's a 3-tech or 1-tech guy, I had assumed 1-tech. The other question in-house is whether the Bills saw enough that they liked out of Corey Liuget to offer him a contract. (I believe he's also a 1-tech). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, HOUSE said: Does Josh Allen & Tre White have the right to explore free agency ? Of course they do but I doubt Brandon Beane will let them hit the open market Every player has the “right” if they don’t want to re-sign with their current team. Maybe I’m misinterpreting your comment, as I’m not sure why you selected those two players. But the reason that Beane said that publically at the end of the season is he already knows that Phillips market value is going to be higher than his value to the Bills. This is clearly not the case with White, and if Allen performs at a high level, won’t be the case with him either. Or a number of other players they feel are critical or have committed assets toward. It was just an odd comment to me, maybe i just didn’t get what you meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 33 minutes ago, Moulds 808080 said: If any one has been at a game a saw him in action they would be as bummed as I am if we are truly letting him walk. The guy is the biggest cheerleader getting crowd going!!! I was fortunate to go to Houston and Miami games on the road and he constantly is spinning towel in air and pump fisting. I totally agree with Chandler#81. Shouldn’t have to get the crowd going. Get off your rears and make some noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I can’t imagine he will be making statements like that about homegrown cornerstone players at critical positions? With Allen, if he performs that well, he won’t be close to ever testing the market. He is Beane’s guy, through and through. He would be extended before becoming a FA. The thought process doesn’t make sense. He didn’t draft White, but McDermott did, and the Pegulas have made him a face of the franchise. I don’t see similarities here at all with Phillips. Jordan Phillips was a guy they signed off of waivers who did well (at times) in this scheme but isn’t a critical position they need to overpay for. It's the "at times" qualifier that is key here. Beane put it out there (gently) in his post-season - something about "I think he still has room to grow as a player" You don't pay a guy who has "room to grow" like a top-3 or top-5 guy. Bottom line, Phillips was a great guy and played his butt off to good effect, but he also had gaps in his game (namely run D). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It's the "at times" qualifier that is key here. Beane put it out there (gently) in his post-season - something about "I think he still has room to grow as a player" You don't pay a guy who has "room to grow" like a top-3 or top-5 guy. Bottom line, Phillips was a great guy and played his butt off to good effect, but he also had gaps in his game (namely run D). He wasn’t good against the run . The difference between him and Oliver was significant. Teams attached that weakness especially with Liuget/Phillips subbed in Edited February 22, 2020 by YoloinOhio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said: Every player has the “right” if they don’t want to re-sign with their current team. Maybe I’m misinterpreting your comment, as I’m not sure why you selected those two players. But the reason that Beane said that publically at the end of the season is he already knows that Phillips market value is going to be higher than his value to the Bills. This is clearly not the case with White, and if Allen performs at a high level, won’t be the case with him either. Or a number of other players they feel are critical or have committed assets toward. It was just an odd comment to me, maybe i just didn’t get what you meant. I selected the two players because both could hit free agency soon. I think there is a double standard. It appears Brandon Beane is letting Phillips hit the market because he really doesn't care if he loses him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, HOUSE said: I selected the two players because both could hit free agency soon. I think there is a double standard. It appears Brandon Beane is letting Phillips hit the market because he really doesn't care if he loses him I mean... obviously. Why wouldn’t there be? The situations are nothing alike. And of course he doesn’t care if he loses him. Edited February 22, 2020 by YoloinOhio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I mean... obviously If it so obvious why are people pounding on me like the comment came from outer space...lol Edited February 22, 2020 by HOUSE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 This was pretty much always how it was going to play out. The talk of a franchise tag was just ludicrous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, HOUSE said: I selected the two players because both could hit free agency soon. I think there is a double standard. It appears Brandon Beane is letting Phillips hit the market because he really doesn't care if he loses him By what criteria would you describe that as a "double standard"? A "double standard" to most people's understanding means you have two people with similar value or talents who are regarded differently due to factors having nothing to do with their contributions. Tre' White has followed an upward trajectory since he entered the league and is regarded as one of the better CBs in the league, which is why he is "Pro Bowl Tre" and an all-pro. Of course Beane is going to back up the Brinks truck to keep him. Jordan Phillips is a 2nd round pick whose first team gave up on him partway through his 4th season after he threw a tantrum about playing time on the sideline. He locked in and took a nice step with the Bills in his 1.5 years here, but he is seen here as having some gaps in his DT game for McD's scheme. They're being evaluated or going to be evaluated by a single standard, the standard of their performance and value to our team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Since 3 DT’s are going to see most of the playing time in 2020 (Oliver, Harrison and Star)........ McBeane is probably looking for a DT to play about 33% of the snaps anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, HOUSE said: If it so obvious why are people pounding on me like the comment came from outer space...lol I didn’t see anyone do that 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffBillsForLife Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 I like Phillips, he plays hard and he deserves his pay day. But the Bills don't need to throw money at him, as long as Oliver doesn't regress we should be fine with interior DL. Best of luck to him on other teams that aren't named Patriots/Jets/Dolphins (not that he would go back to the Dolphins) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moulds 808080 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 46 minutes ago, mushypeaches said: Yes!!! Let's overpay for a guy who got released by the Dolphins, will likely not put up the stats again that he did this year, and will cost a fortune to hold onto at the same position we just drafted a guy in the first round... But but but, he's a "chearleader" and loves Buffalo. That'll come in handy later when we can't re-sign our really talented draft picks to second contracts! Your missing the point.. He has been a playmaker but we always run them out of town than we say dang we shouldn't have let him leave. Did you notice his sack total??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIZ Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, HOUSE said: The Buffalo Bills are going to let free agent defensive tackle Jordan Phillips test free agency this spring reports John Wawrow of the Associated Press. While both sides “enjoyed his two seasons in Buffalo”, they don’t expect to stay together for a third or beyond. “[The] thinking behind decision is question of how much Bills can spend because they have to focus on re-signing others,” continued Wawrow. We projected that this was how the story was going to play out when we looked at Phillips in January. With Ed Oliver ready to step up in his second season and be the lead 3-tech, there was no need to re-sign Phillips to a massive free agent contract. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2020/2/22/21148528/buffalo-bills-going-to-let-dt-jordan-phillips-test-free-agency-2020 Thanks for posting. I didn’t hear the entire presser, so thanks for the article. Seems that Beane and company are so tight lipped in FA and the Draft, that any additional info is appreciated. Edited February 22, 2020 by PIZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Phillips thinks his value is much higher than it should be. He has the flashy sack stat which helps his cause. I think if he tests free agency someone will pony up. Might not be as much as he want, but more than we will offer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, njbuff said: Since 3 DT’s are going to see most of the playing time in 2020 (Oliver, Harrison and Star)........ McBeane is probably looking for a DT to play about 33% of the snaps anyways. Right on. With DT being possibly being the deepest position in free agency, I think when the dust settles we'll find someone pretty good to handle that 33% ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) This is exactly the type of player who gets overpaid in FA every year (coming off a big stats year). He’s a good player, but not worth top dollar. Thank goodness for Beane. Edited February 22, 2020 by KD in CA 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushypeaches Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 16 minutes ago, Moulds 808080 said: Your missing the point.. He has been a playmaker but we always run them out of town than we say dang we shouldn't have let him leave. Did you notice his sack total??? I'm not missing any point there, fella. His "plays" more often than not were a result of other more talented players winning their battles. Let's not overpay for JAG. I don't think anyone is going to be saying "dang" about Jordan Phillips leaving, especially if he gets big $$$. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 I don't know if it would help or hurt, but I had words to him on Twitter about GMs being unlikely to pay what he is demanding for a player with ONE good year in a top defense surrounding him with talent. Suggested he take a more reasonable short term extension with an option. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Moulds 808080 said: Your missing the point.. He has been a playmaker but we always run them out of town than we say dang we shouldn't have let him leave. Did you notice his sack total??? Quote The casual fan will look at Phillips’ stat line and think this was a breakout year. He had 10 sacks after recording just six in his first four seasons combined. The issue is that the sacks didn’t come as a result of Phillips winning more of his pass-rushes or showing dominant reps with quick wins. In fact, Phillips had the lowest PFF pass-rushing grade of his career this season at 60.2. 10 of his 25 total pressures resulted in sacks — an extremely high rate — and a good chunk of those sacks came with the quarterback tucking the ball and running into his waiting arms. As a player who has yet to crack an overall grade of 60.0 in a season, it would behoove teams to not spend big money on Phillips chasing his sack total. For all the physical gifts Phillips has, he isn’t consistent on the field. He especially disappoints as a run defender where he doesn’t regularly anchor or maintain his run fits. Whether it’s getting driven out of his gap or shooting too far up the field on run plays, he puts the second level of the defense in compromising situations when attempting to play downhill. https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/nfl-free-agent-jordan-phillips-buffalo-bills-2020 his season was an outlier, and it makes me wonder if it is scheme- related. Which would be ok if he stayed with the Bills, but again the value needs to match and I think Beane believes he can replace him. His sack to pressure ratio is likely unsustainable. Edited February 22, 2020 by YoloinOhio 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 31 minutes ago, mushypeaches said: I'm not missing any point there, fella. His "plays" more often than not were a result of other more talented players winning their battles. Let's not overpay for JAG. I don't think anyone is going to be saying "dang" about Jordan Phillips leaving, especially if he gets big $$$. Even if he turns into a superstar after getting top $$$, it is still objectively a dumb idea to hand that kind of money for a potential one year wonder. Winning the lottery after blowing your life savings on tickets doesn't justify the initial irresponsibility. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 On the other hand, I'd like to keep Luiget in the DT rotation over Taylor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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