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Tipster19

Would you give our 2020 1st rd pick to the Lions for Kenny Golliday?

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Is he rumored to be available?  If not, then what’s point of thread?  Might as well I start threads about trading for any unavailable player if he’s not.

 

If he is, then it’s a resounding yes.  You trade the 22nd pick for a young beast of a WR.

Edited by Alphadawg7
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6 hours ago, elijah said:

Edmunds, Milano, Dawkins, Josh, Tre, Poyer, etc. are all guys that are going to need to get paid soon.

Hopefully, they all need to get paid. That'll be a good problem to have.

 

In the meantime, this is a golden opportunity to acquire assets with so many guys on rookie contracts. The good teams work around the cap with ease.

 

The time to win is now. They've been patient and that's great, but the roster, as currently constructed, is not a SB contender. They're good, but they lack "game changers." Gotta spend money if you want to acquire these guys.

 

If Golliday is on the block, I'm in. In the broader context, I'd prefer to see them be aggressive in FA'cy in general. Doesn't mean you doll out huge contracts left and right, but the notion of NOT acquiring an individual top flight receiver because of "cap concerns" down the line just isn't a compelling argument. Not for me anyways.

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7 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I would, the guy could be the offensive game changer that the Bills are looking for. He’s entering his last year of his rookie contract and the Lions will have to make a decision on him sooner or later. Being a Belichick disciple I would think that Patricia isn’t looking to lock up a ton of money on a WR. Pay him now and they might just be willing to give him up. The guy has been in the league and is ready to ball.

 

I hate crying football players

Hard Pass

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7 hours ago, elijah said:

Last time we valued a super bowl victory over future cap space, we went 8-8 and 7-9 and we’re left in cap hell that set the franchise back 2 years and took 3 years to fully clean up. 

 

Super bowls are nice and the ultimate goal, but we have a staff that’s valuing sustainability and success at the same time.  They’re showing you can do both by keeping the long-term cap space in the plans, let’s get on board as fans instead of writing it off. 

 

Do we want to look like the Rams, fall just short in one year and then completely come apart after, or the Patriots who get it done year in and year out? 

 

I dont know about you, but I think one of these are a clear and obvious choice. 

 

7 hours ago, Utah John said:

The Bills are building a team that can win consistently for years to come, not throwing everything in for a single year that might or might not work out, only to watch the team dissolve.

 

There is no such thing as "sustainability" in the NFL.  Roster turn over is a fact of life whether teams are consistently competing in the playoffs or consistently missing them.    Plain and simple, the modern NFL is dominated by teams that figure out how to manage the salary cap, and those are the teams that win consistently, make conference championships, and win Super Bowls.  Only the Buccaneers among Super Bowl winners in the last 20 years  have failed to be a consistent winner.  They have not made the playoffs since 2008.  Only the Falcons have been a consistent winner that has only made the Super Bowl once in the last year, and only the Vikings have been a consistent winner that has failed to make the Super Bowl in the last 20 years.

 

In the 20 years since 2000, these are the Super Bowl winners:

New England Patriots - 20 winnings seasons - 18 playoff seasons - 13 conference championship appearances - 9 SB appearances - 6 SBs

Indianapolis Colts -  15 winning seasons - 15 playoff seasons - 4 conference championship appearances - 2 SB appearances - 1 SB

Green Bay Packers - 15 winning seasons - 14 playoff seasons - 5 conference championship appearances - 1 SB appearance - 1 SB

Seattle Seahawks - 15 winning seasons - 13 playoff seasons - 3 conference championship appearances - 3 SB appearances - 1 SB

Philadelphia Eagles - 14 winning seasons - 13 playoff seasons - 6 conference championship appearances - 2 SB appearances - 1 SB

Pittsburgh Steelers - 15 winning seasons - 12 playoff seasons - 5 conference championship appearances - 3 SB appearances - 2 SBs

Baltimore Ravens - 14 winning seasons - 12 playoff seasons - 4 conference championship appearances - 2 SB appearances - 2 SBs

Denver Broncos - 12 winning seasons - 9 playoff seasons - 3 conference championship appearances - 2 SB appearances - 1 SB

Kansas City Chiefs - 11 winning seasons -  9 playoff seasons - 2 conference championship appearances -1 SB appearance - 1 SB

New Orleans Saints - 10 winning seasons - 9 playoff seasons - 3 conference championship appearances - 1 SB appearance -1 SB

New York Giants - 10 winning seasons - 8 playoff seasons - 3 conference championship appearances - 3 SB appearances -2 SBs

Tampa Bay Buccaneers - 6 winning seasons -5 playoff seasons - 1 conference championship appearances - 1 SB appearance -1 SB

 

If the Bills don't strive to win the Super Bowl, they certainly aren't likely to become "consistent winners".

Edited by SoTier
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8 hours ago, elijah said:

Edmunds, Milano, Dawkins, Josh, Tre, Poyer, etc. are all guys that are going to need to get paid soon. Adding Golladay to the list doesn’t help, he expires after this season. 

 

The cap space is nice right now but it doesn’t last forever.  We have a young core with most of our important players on their rookie contracts, these rookie contracts don’t last forever.  Give me a number one who we have cost controlled for 4 years, not a number one with one year left and a $15M+ contract coming. 

 

 

Make it even easier then:  who would you rather pay?  Poyer or Golliday?  Sure, there's a difference in price, but for what you're getting, this difference is negligible.

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34 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Make it even easier then:  who would you rather pay?  Poyer or Golliday?  Sure, there's a difference in price, but for what you're getting, this difference is negligible.

Exactly. And the elephant in the room is that we don't know with certainty that JA will be a guy worthy of that big contract a couple YEARS from now. We just don't.

 

Unless they acquire enough offensive talent to properly judge the QB, we may STILL not know.

 

So that's yet another reason to target a guy like Golliday.

 

And as other's have said, this is a hypothetical scenario because I HIGHLY doubt the Lions move Golliday. I just have no idea why people have become so cap obsessed.

Edited by LSHMEAB
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7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Why are you worried about things 3-4 years down the road? 

 

Whats more important a Super Bowl victory or cap space?

 

This should be a poll question.

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17 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

 

This should be a poll question.

Sad thing is it would be close.

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In other news about WRs, it looks like KC’s WR Demarcus Robinson just might become a FA. I’m not impressed, the guy dropped too many balls in the sample size that I saw him in. If the Bills don’t draft a big time WR then I hope that they trade for an elite talent. I’d like to see them go after players that aren’t advertised, they have the capital and resources to entice just about any team to give it a 2nd thought. Beane is aggressive and if a player makes sense then I believe that he would pony up for the right player. Golliday imo is the right player.

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Um yes.

 

And no, he's not leaving Detroit.

 

I think the game he had vs White last year was the worst game of White's career.  

 

Dude is a beast.  

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4 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

In other news about WRs, it looks like KC’s WR Demarcus Robinson just might become a FA. I’m not impressed, the guy dropped too many balls in the sample size that I saw him in. If the Bills don’t draft a big time WR then I hope that they trade for an elite talent. I’d like to see them go after players that aren’t advertised, they have the capital and resources to entice just about any team to give it a 2nd thought. Beane is aggressive and if a player makes sense then I believe that he would pony up for the right player. Golliday imo is the right player.

That’s been my stance all offseason. 
Diggs, Evans in Tampa, Keenan Allen in LA, I didn’t consider Golloday cause they can easily sign him long term.. But Beane should absolutely be floating that first rounder out there if he can snag a game changer receiver or pass rusher for it. 

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13 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Love Golliday. He looked very good against White in 2018. Doubt the Bills would do it though. Maybe a 2nd and a future early pick would get it done.

Why are you concerned about money? 

 

Why is he concerned about money? Because everyone should be ... always. 

 

 

12 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Why are you worried about things 3-4 years down the road? 

 

Whats more important a Super Bowl victory or cap space?

 

That question utterly and totally misses the point. It's like asking, which do you want, to be rich or to save money?

 

The answer should be both. Saving money is one of the main things that leads to being rich. Same as handling your cap space smartly and frugally is one of the main things that leads to consistently being competitive for Super Bowls.

 

 

12 hours ago, KD in CA said:

"Trading draft picks for guys that are due to be paid is an excellent way to build a consistent winner."

 

-Dan Snyder

 

 

Oh, man, is that ever dead on target.

 

 

 

Edited by Thurman#1

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5 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

 

There is no such thing as "sustainability" in the NFL.  Roster turn over is a fact of life whether teams are consistently competing in the playoffs or consistently missing them.    Plain and simple, the modern NFL is dominated by teams that figure out how to manage the salary cap, and those are the teams that win consistently, make conference championships, and win Super Bowls.  Only the Buccaneers among Super Bowl winners in the last 20 years  have failed to be a consistent winner.  They have not made the playoffs since 2008.  Only the Falcons have been a consistent winner that has only made the Super Bowl once in the last year, and only the Vikings have been a consistent winner that has failed to make the Super Bowl in the last 20 years.

 

In the 20 years since 2000, these are the Super Bowl winners:

New England Patriots - 20 winnings seasons - 18 playoff seasons - 13 conference championship appearances - 9 SB appearances - 6 SBs

Indianapolis Colts -  15 winning seasons - 15 playoff seasons - 4 conference championship appearances - 2 SB appearances - 1 SB

Green Bay Packers - 15 winning seasons - 14 playoff seasons - 5 conference championship appearances - 1 SB appearance - 1 SB

Seattle Seahawks - 15 winning seasons - 13 playoff seasons - 3 conference championship appearances - 3 SB appearances - 1 SB

Philadelphia Eagles - 14 winning seasons - 13 playoff seasons - 6 conference championship appearances - 2 SB appearances - 1 SB

Pittsburgh Steelers - 15 winning seasons - 12 playoff seasons - 5 conference championship appearances - 3 SB appearances - 2 SBs

Baltimore Ravens - 14 winning seasons - 12 playoff seasons - 4 conference championship appearances - 2 SB appearances - 2 SBs

Denver Broncos - 12 winning seasons - 9 playoff seasons - 3 conference championship appearances - 2 SB appearances - 1 SB

Kansas City Chiefs - 11 winning seasons -  9 playoff seasons - 2 conference championship appearances -1 SB appearance - 1 SB

New Orleans Saints - 10 winning seasons - 9 playoff seasons - 3 conference championship appearances - 1 SB appearance -1 SB

New York Giants - 10 winning seasons - 8 playoff seasons - 3 conference championship appearances - 3 SB appearances -2 SBs

Tampa Bay Buccaneers - 6 winning seasons -5 playoff seasons - 1 conference championship appearances - 1 SB appearance -1 SB

 

If the Bills don't strive to win the Super Bowl, they certainly aren't likely to become "consistent winners".

 

 

You're mixing cause and effect, IMO. If the Bills don't strive to become consistent winners, they aren't likely to win the Super Bowl.

 

If you win consistently, you will have chances in several years rather than just one. That drastically raises your odds.

 

Thoughtful and interesting post, though. But I do wonder about your first few sentences. You say there's no such thing as sustainability in the NFL and then you point out how one group of teams have sustained excellence for quite a long time.

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6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Why is he concerned about money? Because everyone should be ... always. 

 

 

 

That question utterly and totally misses the point. It's like asking, which do you want, to be rich or to save money?

 

The answer should be both. Saving money is one of the main things that leads to being rich. Same as handling your cap space smartly and frugally is one of the main things that leads to consistently being competitive for Super Bowls.

 

 

 

 

Oh, man, is that ever dead on target.

 

 

 

 

If this was always true, Pegula wouldn't have bought the Bills.

 

Also, amassing a huge cap space has come at the expense of putting out an offense that still struggles to score points.  Is that considered being rich?

Edited by Mr. WEO
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6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Why is he concerned about money? Because everyone should be ... always. 

 

That question utterly and totally misses the point. It's like asking, which do you want, to be rich or to save money?

 

The answer should be both. Saving money is one of the main things that leads to being rich. Same as handling your cap space smartly and frugally is one of the main things that leads to consistently being competitive for Super Bowls.

 

ScottLaw was totally right.  The guy he quoted was implying we couldn't hypothetically sign Golladay to a big contract because we had to pay the guys like Edmunds and Allen.  Those guys just finished their 2nd year.  The Bills have the rights to those guys for another 3 years.  Milano and Dawkins aren't going to break the bank.  This "cap hell" some people worry about is a total exaggeration.  The Bills for 2020 currently have 1 player with a cap hit of 10 million or more.  The Chiefs have 8 and still have to pay Mahomes.  I guess they should have cancelled the Super Bowl parade.  I remember 5 years ago when everyone said the Saints were in "salary cap hell".  What happened?  There's no prize in the NFL for doing the most while spending the least.  The Bills have plenty of money to spend.

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Lions have $45M cap space should sign their tall WR,  interesting thought though.

 

He was pick #96 in 3rd rd good drafting for them.

 

Edited by ALF

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20 hours ago, elijah said:

No. 

 

Draft offers more youth, some players seemingly with more talent, and a lot less money. 

 

The first round pick for X questions just don’t make much sense, especially with the WR depth this year. 

Lol everything said here is the opposite of what matters. 

Fact- Bills are very bad at drafting WRs

Fact- this money issue isn't an issue

 

But I wouldn't give up a first for him.

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can it be next year's first?  i didn't realize how big golladay is.  i thought he was like a 6 foot guy not 6-4 for some reason. 

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7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Why is he concerned about money? Because everyone should be ... always. 

 

 

 

That question utterly and totally misses the point. It's like asking, which do you want, to be rich or to save money?

 

The answer should be both. Saving money is one of the main things that leads to being rich. Same as handling your cap space smartly and frugally is one of the main things that leads to consistently being competitive for Super Bowls.

 

 

 

 

Oh, man, is that ever dead on target.

 

 

 

Have the Saints handled their cap space smartly and frugally? 

 

Seems just about every year they are over the cap going into the offseason, and every year they are a perennial contender. 

 

My point was, why worry about money when you have over $90 million in cap space? The guys worried about locking up Josh Allen, who still has a whole ***** ton to prove before having to give out a gigantic contract to him. 

 

And Poyer? He's a solid player, but not someone I'm giving a hefty contract extension to. 

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1 hour ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

 

ScottLaw was totally right.  The guy he quoted was implying we couldn't hypothetically sign Golladay to a big contract because we had to pay the guys like Edmunds and Allen.  Those guys just finished their 2nd year.  The Bills have the rights to those guys for another 3 years.  Milano and Dawkins aren't going to break the bank.  This "cap hell" some people worry about is a total exaggeration.  The Bills for 2020 currently have 1 player with a cap hit of 10 million or more.  The Chiefs have 8 and still have to pay Mahomes.  I guess they should have cancelled the Super Bowl parade.  I remember 5 years ago when everyone said the Saints were in "salary cap hell".  What happened?  There's no prize in the NFL for doing the most while spending the least.  The Bills have plenty of money to spend.


The Bills are a long, long way from any cap problems, but that’s not to say that they should waste space or give out bad contracts.  OTOH paying market value to elite players at important positions should be on their “To Do” list, not something they shy away from.  If they do that and draft well they’re going to be fine. 

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57 minutes ago, Hardhatharry said:

Lol everything said here is the opposite of what matters. 

Fact- Bills are very bad at drafting WRs

Fact- this money issue isn't an issue

 

But I wouldn't give up a first for him.


Why is it a fact that the Bills are “very bad” at drafting WRs?

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12 hours ago, wppete said:

No. Not trading our #1.

Why? People over value #1 picks, I mean to me Golliday gives this team what it needs/wants at the WR position and unlike a rookie is at least NFL proven. I make a trade like this all day every day. 

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38 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:


The Bills are a long, long way from any cap problems, but that’s not to say that they should waste space or give out bad contracts.  OTOH paying market value to elite players at important positions should be on their “To Do” list, not something they shy away from.  If they do that and draft well they’re going to be fine. 

I'm definitely not for being one of those teams that give out a ton of bad contract to FA's but the Bills can no doubt sign their own guys and sign a Premier FA or 2.

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