Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Tipster19

Would you give our 2020 1st rd pick to the Lions for Kenny Golliday?

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, njbuff said:

This is a WR rich draft.

 

Why give up draft choices when you can draft 2-4 WR's in this draft alone and let them develop with Allen?

 

Give up a 1st round pick AND pay Golliday? Beyond stupid.

Because one is proven, while the other 2-4 aren't and would need time to develop into what the other one already is, and they would have to develop along with a QB that still needs to develop himself......

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Why are you worried about things 3-4 years down the road? 

 

Whats more important a Super Bowl victory or cap space?

I was gonna say.  Guy is worried about some people we don't have to pay for years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Why are you worried about things 3-4 years down the road? 

 

Whats more important a Super Bowl victory or cap space?

Last time we valued a super bowl victory over future cap space, we went 8-8 and 7-9 and we’re left in cap hell that set the franchise back 2 years and took 3 years to fully clean up. 

 

Super bowls are nice and the ultimate goal, but we have a staff that’s valuing sustainability and success at the same time.  They’re showing you can do both by keeping the long-term cap space in the plans, let’s get on board as fans instead of writing it off. 

 

Do we want to look like the Rams, fall just short in one year and then completely come apart after, or the Patriots who get it done year in and year out? 

 

I dont know about you, but I think one of these are a clear and obvious choice. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Why are you worried about things 3-4 years down the road? 

 

Whats more important a Super Bowl victory or cap space?

The Bills are building a team that can win consistently for years to come, not throwing everything in for a single year that might or might not work out, only to watch the team dissolve.

  • Like (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Golloday is a legit top 10 receiver in the league who has not peaked yet. 
I would be thrilled to get him for a first. 
That said, Detroit is going to extend him and this is all just for fun. He’s the best player on their whole team. They have the money to extend Slay and Golloday. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bet not too many would have objected too loudly when Antonio Brown was once a remote possibility and that guy was demanding ALL the money. Is it inconceivable of working out a contract with Golliday BEFORE you finalize the trade? It happens all the time, I just don’t get some of the people’s thinking around here. It’s called doing your due diligence and as far as I can tell Beane is pretty good at it. 
 

 Another aspect that I like about Golliday is that he would be coming from playing with a big arm QB to another big arm QB in Josh Allen. If the Lions would do it then this would be a no brained.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Tipster19 said:

I bet not too many would have objected too loudly when Antonio Brown was once a remote possibility and that guy was demanding ALL the money.

That guy was also traded for a 3rd and 5th round pick, not a 1st rounder. 

 

EDIT: That guy was also consistently a top 3 player at his position and probably a first ballot hall of famer if he didn’t tear his career apart this past year, 2 completely different levels of talent. 

Edited by elijah
  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Virgil said:


Golliday is better than anyone in this draft and it’s not even close.  He’s the speed, big bodied guy everyone says we need 


say it to Jerry Jeudy’s face ! 

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Haha (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, elijah said:

Last time we valued a super bowl victory over future cap space, we went 8-8 and 7-9 and we’re left in cap hell that set the franchise back 2 years and took 3 years to fully clean up. 

 

Super bowls are nice and the ultimate goal, but we have a staff that’s valuing sustainability and success at the same time.  They’re showing you can do both by keeping the long-term cap space in the plans, let’s get on board as fans instead of writing it off. 

 

Do we want to look like the Rams, fall just short in one year and then completely come apart after, or the Patriots who get it done year in and year out? 

 

I dont know about you, but I think one of these are a clear and obvious choice. 

The reason for the Patriots success (other then cheating) has been having one of the greatest HCs in the game to go with possibly the greatest QB to play the game who was willing to play on cheaper deals to keep the cap hits down. They also were able to get big name FAs to sign cheaper there because they gave them the best chance at a SB win. It really helps when your able to get some of the best players come to you on affordable deals instead of having to grossly overpay mediocre guys to play for you.

 

Also let's not go too overboard with the Bills way of doing things yet, so far it's gotten them a 'one and done' playoff appearance in a weak year......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Why are you worried about things 3-4 years down the road? 

 

Whats more important a Super Bowl victory or cap space?

All these - we dont have the cap space, what about player xyz, build via the draft talkers must just love mediocrity. Lets do our best to just keep our own and maintain a decent team. We can have some excitement bouncing around from 6-10 to 10-6. Good times. 

 

This is the NFL. Teams can get out of deals so easily and manipulate the cap and rosters. You have to go all in when you think you have a window to win. If the Bills are not at that point yet then they are in trouble. The next 3-4 years they have a shot to be good. You worry about that now and adjust as needed when you need to. 

  • Thanks! (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

Because one is proven, while the other 2-4 aren't and would need time to develop into what the other one already is, and they would have to develop along with a QB that still needs to develop himself......

 

Money is going to be needed to invest elsewhere.

 

WR's can develop quicker in today's NFL and I am fine with drafting WR's from this draft. These kids are talented enough to contribute RIGHT AWAY.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Utah John said:

The Bills are building a team that can win consistently for years to come, not throwing everything in for a single year that might or might not work out, only to watch the team dissolve.

Why do people look at obtaining a 25-26 year old proven player as a one year thing? If the Bills can sign any elite player in his prime that is for the long term. We have the money to do both. Supplement this roster with more elite talent, keep our own and draft for the future. It is possible to do it all with the current state of our roster. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, we need to continue building through the draft and free agency.  We need that first pick to add a player that will develop with Josh for the next several years. Trading a pick away for a player that will demand a big pay day next year is a bad move on my opinion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, njbuff said:

This is a WR rich draft.

 

Why give up draft choices when you can draft 2-4 WR's in this draft alone and let them develop with Allen?

 

Give up a 1st round pick AND pay Golliday? Beyond stupid.

 

Welllllllllll......I haven't tabulated stuff and put it all together.  But I've had a look at the recent WR drafts from 2013 to 2017 (giving players 2 yrs to develop).

Currently the best receiver from that draft class (by pro-football-reference career average value)  taken in the first 2 rounds is something like:

2017 6th WR drafted (pick 62) - Juju Smith Schuster

2016 6th WR drafted (pick 47) - Mike Thomas

2015 1st WR drafted (#4), 3rd WR drafted (#14) - Amari Cooper, Davante Parker

2014  - 4th WR  - Brandin Cooks, 3rd WR - Beckham Jr - 2nd WR - Mike Evans, 12th WR drafted - Jarvis Landry 9th WR drafted - Davante Adams #1 WR drafted - Sammy Watkins

2013 - #2 WR drafted (pick 27) - DeAndre Hopkins #5 Wr drafted (41) - Robert Woods

 

Golladay isn't on this list because he was drafted in the 3rd round.

 

Now one can debate PFR's Career Average Value or the specific ordering - but I think the point stands that professional NFL talent scouts on many teams whiff on picking the best WR talent in the draft quite a lot. 

 

So if one has the chance to acquire a proven strong talent at WR, that might be the way to go even if you gotta give up a pick and pay him.

 

But as previously noted, AFAIK the Lions have 0 motivation to move on from Golladay this season and every motivation to keep him.

         

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Welllllllllll......I haven't tabulated stuff and put it all together.  But I've had a look at the recent WR drafts from 2013 to 2017 (giving players 2 yrs to develop).

Currently the best receiver from that draft class (by pro-football-reference career average value)  taken in the first 2 rounds is something like:

2017 6th WR drafted (pick 62) - Juju Smith Schuster

2016 6th WR drafted (pick 47) - Mike Williams

2015 1st WR drafted (#4), 3rd WR drafted (#14) - Amari Cooper, Davante Parker

2014  - 4th WR  - Brandin Cooks, 3rd WR - Beckham Jr - 2nd WR - Mike Evans, 12th WR drafted - Jarvis Landry 9th WR drafted - Davante Adams #1 WR drafted - Sammy Watkins

2013 - #2 WR drafted (pick 27) - DeAndre Hopkins #5 Wr drafted (41) - Robert Woods

 

Golladay isn't on this list because he was drafted in the 3rd round.

 

Now one can debate PFR's Career Average Value or the specific ordering - but I think the point stands that professional NFL talent scouts on many teams whiff on picking the best WR talent in the draft quite a lot. 

 

So if one has the chance to acquire a proven strong talent at WR, that might be the way to go even if you gotta give up a pick and pay him.

 

But as previously noted, AFAIK the Lions have 0 motivation to move on from Golladay this season and every motivation to keep him.

         

IIRC Mike Williams and JJSS were 2017 draft class, your 2016 guy would be Michael Thomas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Detroit's dealing a WR, I'm guessing it's Marvin Jones Jr., who's 29 and in the last year of his contract.

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Golden Goat said:

If Detroit's dealing a WR, I'm guessing it's Marvin Jones Jr., who's 29 and in the last year of his contract.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Send a 3rd and a 5th for him. Draft BPA in 1st and WR in 2nd. Extend Jones for 2 years if he has a good year.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

IIRC Mike Williams and JJSS were 2017 draft class, your 2016 guy would be Michael Thomas

 

You are correct

 

Point stands though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Virgil said:


Golliday is better than anyone in this draft and it’s not even close.  He’s the speed, big bodied guy everyone says we need 

Golladay is good but not a speed guy by any means, big bodied yes, speedy no. In fact his 4.5 40 was 20th in his combine wr class and his 3 cone was 26th.

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, nato7412 said:

This is exactly what I was thinking. Send a 3rd and a 5th for him. Draft BPA in 1st and WR in 2nd. Extend Jones for 2 years if he has a good year.

A 3rd and a 5th for 30 yr old Marvin Jones? 😬

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, Virgil said:


Golliday is better than anyone in this draft and it’s not even close.  He’s the speed, big bodied guy everyone says we need 

 

Certainly better than anybody the Bills would pick up with the 22nd pick.

 

2 hours ago, elijah said:

Edmunds, Milano, Dawkins, Josh, Tre, Poyer, etc. are all guys that are going to need to get paid soon. Adding Golladay to the list doesn’t help, he expires after this season. 

 

The cap space is nice right now but it doesn’t last forever.  We have a young core with most of our important players on their rookie contracts, these rookie contracts don’t last forever.  Give me a number one who we have cost controlled for 4 years, not a number one with one year left and a $15M+ contract coming. 

2 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

But draft also doesn't guarantee Pro level success. Golliday has already proven he can play in the league at a high level, the players in the draft have not.

 

As for your list in the other post, only Tre is in line for a Big deal soon, the rest haven't done anything yet to deserve deals that could break the bank, even Josh hasn't hit that level yet. 

 

Exactly right about paying people.  White is the only one that will be due big $$$ soon.  Dawkins and Milano are in need of new deals but not due big pay days.  They're decent players, but not enough above average to warrant paying them more than the average starter money at their positions.  If somebody wanted to offer one or both big $$$ then maybe the Bills should let them leave rather than  pass on the opportunity to bring in a WR like Golliday simply to keep both, and if it came down to picking one of them, I'd sure keep Dawkins rather than Milano simply because starting OTs, even average ones, are harder to come by than starting LBs.  Poyer is due a decent pay day but it shouldn't break the bank. Allen and  Edmunds have 3 more years on their rookie deals, and they both have lots of room to improve before they start thinking big $$$.

 

More importantly, the Bills absolutely need to determine what they have in Josh Allen ASAP because the salaries for top QBs are over $30 million now and racing upward.  For decent starters, it's $15-$20 million.  For quality veteran backups it's $5-$10.   All QBs need protection and targets, and young QBs especially are helped by having a strong running game.  The Bills OL is adequate but could be better.  Once Allen gets past Beasley, Brown, and Singletary, though, he doesn't have good enough receivers or runners to help him.  Are Allen's mediocre passing numbers primarily because of his own shortcomings or primarily because too often the lack of first rate offensive talent limits what kind of plays the Bills can run and how much success any QB would have?  Maybe Dawson Knox can develop into a good pass catching TE, but adding a WR of Golliday's caliber would enable the Bills to get a much clearer picture of Allen's worth.  

 

What I know the Bills can't afford is to pay Allen $30+ million a year when his performance doesn't justify that kind of money because they're still waiting for him to "get it" because he still doesn't have good protection, good targets, and a good running game.  Surrounding Allen with plenty of talent eliminates the excuses that we've heard for Allen's play for two seasons now (and which, in many cases, were very valid).   So, if the Bills could swing a trade for Golliday, especially if they agreed to a new deal in advance, I'd be a happy camper.

 

 

Edited by SoTier

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...