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Allen or Watson ( Who would you rather have leading your team Saturday)

Buffalo716

By Buffalo716
in The Stadium Wall Archives

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Who would you rather have   

311 members have voted

  1. 1. This Saturday: If you had the choice of either QB, who would you want leading your team

    • Josh Allen
      158
    • Deshaun Watson
      153

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

No. If a 4% bad throw rate isn’t significant, neither is a 3% difference in drop rate.


Two things:

 

1) I didn’t say it was insignificant; I said that simply referring to rank without contextual reference implies a much greater difference than what the actual numbers show

 

2) This is as disingenuous as it gets. You’re really implying that having double the drop rate—something that is entirely beyond his control—doesn’t adversely affect Allen’s performance metrics? That’s total horse manure.

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elijah
elijah

If you’re choosing Allen over Watson you’re blinding yourself as a Bills fan.    This shouldn’t be a debate.    Im as big of an Allen supporter as there is, but Watson is primed to

C.Biscuit97
C.Biscuit97

I mean this is the definition of being a homer.  I think Allen has done some good things but Watson might be a top 5 qb right now. He has to carry that team to wins.  Watson and our defense would be a

wppete
wppete

Cmon..... I think Watson is great but I’ll take Josh Allen all day. Let’s go!!! 

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OldTimeAFLGuy Hall of Famer

OldTimeAFLGuy

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Posted
On 1/1/2020 at 6:18 PM, Buffalo716 said:

Agreed

 

A football conversation with somebody saying they'd rather have Watson sparked this interest in me

 

 

....um...er....well...uh....ALLEN dammit.....think he has made great strides in year 2, avoiding the dreaded "sophomore slump"....offensive remake, new coaches, Daboll (hopefully) becoming more confident in this kid's attributes.....not taking anything away from the Watson kid, but I think he has somewhat better offensive weapons......

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NewEra Hall of Famer

NewEra

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1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/passing_advanced.htm

 

There’s a fair bit that you’re leaving out:

 

That apparently huge difference between 9 and 20 in on-target percentage amounts to 3%. Not exactly the chasm you’re implying.

 

Same goes for bad throw percentage; the difference is 4%.

 

The difference in CAY/PA is half a yard.

 

Now for the stuff that you didn’t mention:

 

Allen suffered a drop rate of 7.2%—highest in the NFL. Watson’s was 4.4%. WR play matters.
 

Both QBs faced the same number of hurried despite Watson having more attempts; Allen was also hit 4 more times. OL play matters.

 

Even though their respective efficiencies on RPOs are very similar, Josh had less than half of Watson’s combined run/pass attempts from RPO plays. Play calling matters.


I find it rather interesting that you left out a significant measure of context after calling me out for cherry picking/obfuscating (actually it was for being “strawmanny” earlier in this thread (and it was in a different thread).


His NFL track record?

 

Not really. He has one playoff win over the Connor Cook lead Raiders.

 

I like Watson, but let’s be accurate.

Pretty sure he’s 0-1 in the playoffs.

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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39 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Pretty much supports what I said - Houston are bottom 6 and the Bills are about average. They are probably a couple of spots lower than I would have them on eye test but nothing there that significantly contradicts my view. 

 

You might have been talking about BO'B here I am not sure but Watson wasn't yet drafted when they beat the Raiders. I think that was the Brocketship. 


Aw crud, you’re right 

 

Thanks

Just now, NewEra said:

Pretty sure he’s 0-1 in the playoffs.


Yeah I got his record crossed up with O’Brien’s

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NewEra Hall of Famer

NewEra

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34 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:


True. Do you suppose that such a humongous drop rate might have a trickle-down effect on stats like YPA, TD %, INT%, and CAY/PA? That was more my point in citing that statistic.

I feel his drop rate is a bit higher than it should be because he throws the ball too hard at times. I love watching him fire laser beams all around the field, but on a few throws, if his WRs had an additional fraction of a second to react, I feel they would’ve made the catches

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BringBackOrton All Pro

BringBackOrton

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:


Two things:

 

1) I didn’t say it was insignificant; I said that simply referring to rank without contextual reference implies a much greater difference than what the actual numbers show

 

2) This is as disingenuous as it gets. You’re really implying that having double the drop rate—something that is entirely beyond his control—doesn’t adversely affect Allen’s performance metrics? That’s total horse manure.

You call me disingenuous? How bout instead of calling it “double” the drop rate, you give the context of # of dropped passes per game difference it truly is?

 

Does drop rate affect his bad throw rating? Does it affect his on target percentage? No and no, which is why I picked those stats. Unless you think Zay Jones dropping a pass or two means that Allen put more in the hospitality tent. 

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

You call me disingenuous? How bout instead of calling it “double” the drop rate, you give the context of # of dropped passes per game difference it truly is?

 

Does drop rate affect his bad throw rating? Does it affect his on target percentage? No and no, which is why I picked those stats. Unless you think Zay Jones dropping a pass or two means that Allen put more in the hospitality tent. 


Yes, totally disingenuous including in this very post.

 

I made it clear that the highest drop rate will almost certainly have a trickle down effect on other stats like YPA etc. You’ve decided to completely ignore that and pivot to other stats. It’s also nothing short of intentional misrepresentation to categorize the number of drops as “Zay Jones dropped a pass or two”. 
 

No offense, but I no longer believe that you’re really interested in a factual discussion on this topic.


EDIT...

You know what? That was too strong a reply. My apologies.

 

This discussion isn’t going anywhere and we should be more focused on the positive today. Go Bills.

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DCbillsfan Veteran

DCbillsfan

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I'll take Allen since he's on the Bills.  Watson is a heckuva player and a good person.  I think Allen is just scratching the surface.  If he keeps working on his game and they get him two more receivers, one of them being a true WR1, to go along with Brown and Beasley - Look Out!!!

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BringBackOrton All Pro

BringBackOrton

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1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:


Yes, totally disingenuous including in this very post.

 

I made it clear that the highest drop rate will almost certainly have a trickle down effect on other stats like YPA etc. You’ve decided to completely ignore that and pivot to other stats. It’s also nothing short of intentional misrepresentation to categorize the number of drops as “Zay Jones dropped a pass or two”. 
 

No offense, but I no longer believe that you’re really interested in a factual discussion on this topic.


EDIT...

You know what? That was too strong a reply. My apologies.

 

This discussion isn’t going anywhere and we should be more focused on the positive today. Go Bills.

Don’t you ever apologize to me!

 

We definitely both hope Watson plays like Peterman today.

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Nextmanup Hall of Famer

Nextmanup

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I'm not a huge fan of Watson, but I'd take him for sure as he's the clearly better QB.

 

 

On 1/1/2020 at 6:21 PM, elijah said:

If you’re choosing Allen over Watson you’re blinding yourself as a Bills fan. 

 

This shouldn’t be a debate. 

 

Im as big of an Allen supporter as there is, but Watson is primed to be one of the best in the league for a long long time. 

C'mon man!  This is 2BD!  Where the blind lead the blind every day.

 

 

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BringBackOrton All Pro

BringBackOrton

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3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Ultimately when the game was on the line this question was answered. His offense was crumbling and he put the game on his back. 

 

Josh played a decent game. A brilliant first half and a so-so 2nd / OT. 

 

But the better Quarterback won today. 

So-so? I thought I was watching EJ in London in the second half. Josh was absolutely out of control. You could hear him hyperventilating.

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NoSaint Hall of Famer

NoSaint

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1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

Ultimately when the game was on the line this question was answered. His offense was crumbling and he put the game on his back. 

 

Josh played a decent game. A brilliant first half and a so-so 2nd / OT. 

 

But the better Quarterback won today. 


I still think you are overstating the first. He played well - at times excellent but he got very lucky a few times. If the same exact throw was a pick 6 and the same exact tackle had his knee up about a tenth of a second for the fumble it wouldn’t have been brilliant and would’ve changed nothing in his actual play.
 

He also was disorganized on the end of half along with the coaches- the greats playing brilliantly don’t have that happen there. 

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

So-so? I thought I was watching EJ in London in the second half. Josh was absolutely out of control. You could hear him hyperventilating.


 

for a LONG stretch too

 

it wasn’t a bad play or something. Amazed they couldn’t reel him back in at any point

 

honestly gives me pause about times I’ve said McD keeps him too tight if that’s what could happen 

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BringBackOrton All Pro

BringBackOrton

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4 minutes ago, NoSaint said:


I still think you are overstating the first. He played well - at times excellent but he got very lucky a few times. If the same exact throw was a pick 6 and the same exact tackle had his knee up about a tenth of a second for the fumble it wouldn’t have been brilliant and would’ve changed nothing in his actual play.
 

He also was disorganized on the end of half along with the coaches- the greats playing brilliantly don’t have that happen there. 


 

for a LONG stretch too

 

it wasn’t a bad play or something. Amazed they couldn’t reel him back in at any point

 

honestly gives me pause about times I’ve said McD keeps him too tight if that’s what could happen 

Downside of Daboll in the booth, he can’t see Josh’s body language. Every time the camera was on him, you could feel his anxiety. I would have called 10 runs in a row before I let him throw again like that.

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Brand J Veteran

Brand J

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Allen was 24/46 for 264 with a 5.7 average 0 TDs and a 69.5 rating against one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. 
Watson was 20/25 for 247 with a 9.9 average, 1 TD and a 121.2 rating against one of the best pass defenses in the NFL. 
Is this thread still a thing?

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BullBuchanan Veteran

BullBuchanan

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The fact that this is even a question people are willing to entertain shows the insanity of the Bills fanbase and why we're a joke of an organization. 2 time NCAA Champ, who would have been OROTY if he hadn't gotten hurt, 2x Pro Bowler ,and has won back to back division championships. Meanwhile Allen came in 3rd place in his division in the Mountain West, has never thrown a 300 yard game, and leads the league in fumbles.

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jaybee RFA

jaybee

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Not sure we are any closer now than we were at the beginning of the season in knowing if Josh is that guy. Fortunately he didn't get intercepted today and that was luck. The fumble.. I guess it could happen to anyone. But that throw out of bounds? What the hell?

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