Week 17: NJ Jets at Buffalo Bills PostGame

[Do The Reich Thing]

13 minutes ago, iinii said:

When he plays like one. 

So... by that logic you’re saying Barkley > Allen?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Small complaint. Why didn’t McDermott challenge that total bogus OPI on Sweeney? 

[jkeerie]

14 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

Small complaint. Why didn’t McDermott challenge that total bogus OPI on Sweeney? 

He was ready to, but coaches have been burned all year on obvious PI calls not being overturned on review.   

[deraeler]

Yay to WideNine's points re: using the sidelines and wrapping up. Spot on dude.

 

RE: QB/WR failures, they favor speed, but Foster is never on the right page.  DW is but isn't fast enough.  

But its a coaches jobs to work with these discrepancies and make something work.  Is this on the QB coach? Because its been an issue with both Barclay and Allen.

 

I'm just left with such an empty feeling that these (admittedly few, but costly) injuries were SO unnecessary and gained us NOTHING. We didn't improve or learn or help our playoff status at all, and we finished the season on a dirge of a game in a negative all around atmosphere. The guys can't take a positive feeling into the playoffs from the fact that our 2's played their 1's pretty well (and only one defense, on offense - they just didn't).

 

It wouldn't have taken that much more to beat the PAts, and then the Jets, winning the division - and these guys would be unstoppablle heading into <insert opponent here>.

 

Re: the Sweeney challenge McD has to hear two dissenting opinions to challenge, and I guess he didn't (at least according to Feeley).

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

He was ready to, but coaches have been burned all year on obvious PI calls not being overturned on review.   

They should be aware that some of these calls have been getting overturned in recent weeks. Earlier in the season, that was not the case. 

[jkeerie]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

They should be aware that some of these calls have been getting overturned in recent weeks. Earlier in the season, that was not the case. 

I agree to an extent but there's no rhyme nor reason to it.  I can't fault McD for not wanting to risk losing a challenge and a time out. 

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, deraeler said:

Yay to WideNine's points re: using the sidelines and wrapping up. Spot on dude.

 

RE: QB/WR failures, they favor speed, but Foster is never on the right page.  DW is but isn't fast enough.  

But its a coaches jobs to work with these discrepancies and make something work.  Is this on the QB coach? Because its been an issue with both Barclay and Allen.

 

I'm just left with such an empty feeling that these (admittedly few, but costly) injuries were SO unnecessary and gained us NOTHING. We didn't improve or learn or help our playoff status at all, and we finished the season on a dirge of a game in a negative all around atmosphere. The guys can't take a positive feeling into the playoffs from the fact that our 2's played their 1's pretty well (and only one defense, on offense - they just didn't).

 

It wouldn't have taken that much more to beat the PAts, and then the Jets, winning the division - and these guys would be unstoppablle heading into <insert opponent here>.

 

Re: the Sweeney challenge McD has to hear two dissenting opinions to challenge, and I guess he didn't (at least according to Feeley).

Wouldn’t beating the Jets have taken quite a bit more ? Such as playing the starters on offense ? Seems like you’re advocating against this , lamenting injuries ( which can happen at any time in any game) . So which is it ? The players looked confident today, and I doubt their confidence is shaken in any way. It will take a lot more to beat the Pats*, too. The Bills have about two wins over Brady in his career. The team isn’t there yet, but they are in the playoffs, and can win too. Your “ probation “ should be revoked. 

2 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

I agree to an extent but there's no rhyme nor reason to it.  I can't fault McD for not wanting to risk losing a challenge and a time out. 

In a meaningless game, why not put it to the test ? It’s a minor quibble, to be sure though. 

[PolishPrince]

43 minutes ago, MDH said:

 

Foster is a huge part of the Bills’ ST. Fans don’t notice those contributions, or lack thereof, until a big return happens.

 

If you want to be WR 5, you better contribute to STs. Otherwise you’ll never see the field.

The problem is our #4 and #5 are pretty much only special teamers in Roberts and Foster... our #3 is a gadget player. We need to either focus getting the TE's involved more, or sit Foster and put in Duke. 
 

As decent as Roberts has been returning kicks this year, I wont be upset if his injury lingers another week. Let McKenzie return kicks, Foster stays for gunning, and Duke gets called up for Roberts

Edited December 29, 2019 by PolishPrince

[MDH]

9 minutes ago, PolishPrince said:

The problem is our #4 and #5 are pretty much only special teamers in Roberts and Foster... our #3 is a gadget player. We need to either focus getting the TE's involved more, or sit Foster and put in Duke. 
 

As decent as Roberts has been returning kicks this year, I wont be upset if his injury lingers another week. Let McKenzie return kicks, Foster stays for gunning, and Duke gets called up for Roberts

Roberts is as sure handed as it gets returning punts. People are forgetting how questionable McKenzie is returning punts. early in the year they decided to have Hyde fair catch every punt instead of putting McKenzie back there.

 

If the Bills could find the roster spot I’d rather have Yeldon active than Duke.

[PolishPrince]

4 minutes ago, MDH said:

Roberts is as sure handed as it gets returning punts. People are forgetting how questionable McKenzie is returning punts. early in the year they decided to have Hyde fair catch every punt instead of putting McKenzie back there.

 

If the Bills could find the roster spot I’d rather have Yeldon active than Duke.

Then let Hyde fair catch again. We essentially have 4 gimmick players. 1 returner only. 2x gunner only in Perry and Foster, and McKenzie only used on sweeps and faking a sweep.... not to mention we also have DiMarco who plays like 10 snaps at most a game (but is special teams ace), and a pure blocking TE in Smith. With all of our special teams ace's I wonder why our ST still has such poor days. Its like 50-50 if they are going to be fantastic, or crap.

[MDH]

1 minute ago, PolishPrince said:

Then let Hyde fair catch again. We essentially have 4 gimmick players. 1 returner only. 2x gunner only in Perry and Foster, and McKenzie only used on sweeps and faking a sweep.... not to mention we also have DiMarco who plays like 10 snaps at most a game (but is special teams ace), and a pure blocking TE in Smith. With all of our special teams ace's I wonder why our ST still has such poor days. Its like 50-50 if they are going to be fantastic, or crap.

Other than the Pats’ punt block the ST have been solid all year on coverage and return units.  Not sure of this 50/50 stuff

you're referring to.

 

ST is a unit that is taken for granted by fans until they give up a big play that costs the team.

 

Personally, I don’t think Williams adds more

value as a WR 5 than the players that contribute to ST.

 

And yeah, I’d like a big, fast, all around stud at WR. I just don’t believe Duke is anywhere

near being that player. 

[Rocky Landing]

A lot of hay has been made today about how Yeldon needs to be active. I would like to point out that Yeldon averaged 2.6 YPC on seven carries for 18 yards. Gore averaged 4.3 YPC for 26 yards on six carries, and Gore did all his work up the middle. Motor is the clear starter. Who is Yeldon meant to supplant?

[mannc]

36 minutes ago, MDH said:

Roberts is as sure handed as it gets returning punts. People are forgetting how questionable McKenzie is returning punts. early in the year they decided to have Hyde fair catch every punt instead of putting McKenzie back there.

 

If the Bills could find the roster spot I’d rather have Yeldon active than Duke.

Tre White was an excellent punt returner at LSU.  I’d put him back there if Roberts can’t go.

[PolishPrince]

29 minutes ago, MDH said:

Other than the Pats’ punt block the ST have been solid all year on coverage and return units.  Not sure of this 50/50 stuff

you're referring to.

 

ST is a unit that is taken for granted by fans until they give up a big play that costs the team.

 

Personally, I don’t think Williams adds more

value as a WR 5 than the players that contribute to ST.

 

And yeah, I’d like a big, fast, all around stud at WR. I just don’t believe Duke is anywhere

near being that player. 

And I can think of multiple games this year where people were wanting our ST coach fired because our coverage was mediocre to poor and we were miscuing on plays. If you have 4+ members on your active roster dedicated solely for niche special teams role (not including P/K) then you should be better IMO. Siran Neal is the MUCH better gunner than Foster, and Neal has contributed in the secondary all year.

7 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

A lot of hay has been made today about how Yeldon needs to be active. I would like to point out that Yeldon averaged 2.6 YPC on seven carries for 18 yards. Gore averaged 4.3 YPC for 26 yards on six carries, and Gore did all his work up the middle. Motor is the clear starter. Who is Yeldon meant to supplant?

I agree with you, not sure what people saw Yeldon do to cement an active place - I just dont think he is as bad as others claim with the fumbles.

 

Duke and Sweeney need to be starting over some combination of Perry, Foster, Smith, DiMarco....IMO.

[tcampbell104]

2 hours ago, Do The Reich Thing said:

So I guess the question is when does Allen not need a mentor and he, himself considered a vet?

kelly always relied on riech for advice on what the defense was doing

[TigerJ]

Buffalo got through the game with relatively minor injury losses.  They identified a couple guys who could be contributors in the playoffs and a number of players who are unlikely to be contributors ever.  All in all, not a total loss.

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, Do The Reich Thing said:

Barkley is 100% gone next year. We will draft or pick up a QB more in-line with Josh's skill set. 

 

Barkley is a lock to go to camp and preseason.

 

As for the game I'll add that Duke Williams played well and should get an "active" status for the Texans game.

[MDH]

6 minutes ago, PolishPrince said:

And I can think of multiple games this year where people were wanting our ST coach fired

 

Let’s hear those games. They’ve been very solid since early season.

 

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Barkley is not a back up QB. 

 

My comment was about Barkley going to camp.

Personally I think they make a move to upgrade the backup position.

[CincyBillsFan]

This game reminded me of about 50 Bills games from over the last 20 years.  The only difference was that in those games it was our starters losing!  As others have said there's not a lot you can take away from what amounted to a final preseason game for the Bills.  But here are a few observations:

 

*  Folks are overreacting about Barkley.  No game plan and back-ups all over the field can do that to a QB.  Throw in a cold rain and why would anyone be surprised he struggled?  With that being said, last season Allen did more with less and hopefully today will end any talk about Allen not being #1 & Barkley not being #2. 

 

*  I thought our back-up defensive players did well.  Some good hustle & hard nosed play gives me confidence that the next man up is real with our defensive personnel. 

 

*  Duke & Sweeney played very well and these guys should be given a long hard look during the off season as possible starters/key substitutes.  I get the argument that right now Foster has more value because of his ST play and should be activated over Duke.  But it's hard to ignore the 100 yard receiving game Duke put up today.  We might get real lucky here folks -- real lucky.

 

*  While on the subject of Sweeney, he started right back up where he left off during preseason.  He gets open and catches the ball.  With an off season of conditioning and working on his blocking he and Knox may be a very solid 1/2 punch at TE next season.  They're both rookies and we should see a big jump in their play from this year to next. 

 

*  If we could get "lucky" with Duke as the big bodied WR and Knox/Sweeney as the TE's Bean & McD could concentrate on RB & OL in the off season.  That would be huge.

 

*  If I was a Jets fan I would be having some concern over Darnold right now.  I thought he played poorly today against our backups.  The difference between him and Allen seems to have widened.  While the stat sheet will only show one INT today he should have had 2 - 3 more.  He missed a wide open receiver in the end zone and his pocket awareness seemed poor.  Given the recent Jet's "run" today was their Super Bowl and playing against our back-ups Darnold should have shined.  Instead he seemed close to seeing "ghosts" on the field again. 

 

 

 

[GG]

14 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

Buffalo got through the game with relatively minor injury losses.  They identified a couple guys who could be contributors in the playoffs and a number of players who are unlikely to be contributors ever.  All in all, not a total loss.

 

I wouldn’t call two key players leaving in walking boots, minor.

[PolishPrince]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I wouldn’t call two key players leaving in walking boots, minor.

If I had to think of it in a "positive spin." A lot of people around here have been saying Wallace is bad anyway, so if we had to lose 1 defensive starter he hurts the least... I dont actually agree with these takes, I think he has been great in coverage personally - just gets more light shined on him due to teams not going after white as much for obvious reasons......

 

And Neshke: To be honest, his first injury I thought was much more severe and he wouldnt be back at all, so it is almost a wash IMO. I wish we had him though 

[gobills1212]

Wasnt a horrible waste as it was nice to see Duke. I feel like he could be a safe posession WR type that will reel balls in. Nice effort on a well placed Allen pass early on and save the bad drop - showed what he brings and I like it bc its a bit different than the other starters. I dont love sitting Foster, but like the idea of what Duke brings to the table so itll be interesting to see how they handle it. Easiest is sit Roberts but they prob feel as though they need his for the return game. Earlier in the year id say sit McKenzie as he didnt show much as an actual WR, but hes come on the last few weeks and has found a nice niche w/his sweeps. Foster is prob most likely to be replaced but even that could be different as if he and Barklet were on the same page and he looked up he may have had a catch and run down the seam for a TD. At the end of the day i guess Duke gets the nod bc he took advantage while foster didnt - but he has shown his wirth in the past. Again, will be interesting to see how it shakes out. I also liked where Sweeney seems to be at. We hadnt seen him in a while and although id imagine Kroft gets the nod as the vet, TS seemed to show progress and potential even if it is for next year.

 Also, i posted this in another thread but since it is likley to be shut down bc its pure nonsense ill post here...

 

Did anyone else hear the idiot named Aaron who called the post game show to say how Barkley really came on as the game progressed and asked if he showed enough to come into camp to compete for the starters job? Because i kid you not, that was a call. As was a guy who actually took time out of his day to wait on hold to ask-get this- why there wasnt a penalty for the Jets players celebrating on the field for Barkleys fumble (which was called a fumble on the field) and wanted the refs to retroactively call a penalty for the celebration once it was deemed an incomplete pass. 

Now granted, its my fault for listening and to be fair its not like a show that takes callers is going to be super high end - but good grief! These are actual living, breathing people who CLAIM to be fans of this team.... and they may be, but they obviously arent embarrassed so ill just be embarrassed for them. Surely the Pats bandwagon can fit a few more tools on board...

 

I, foolishly thought 6 pts would be enough to silence the small crowd of fans who dont understand the concept of a FQB and think Barkley will magically lift the O to 35 point games BUT that wasactly the 2nd call on that subject... the 1st rightfully was hung up on;)

[Heitz]

2 hours ago, Nitro said:

This game was nothing to get worked up about.  Barkley played p like a rusty back up.  Sure this team needs up grades but every team does.  They lost by seven to a team playing starters.  Many showed why they should be on the active roster.  Some showed why they need to be replaced.   That is the nature of the NFL.

This is 100% where I’m at.  And being at the game, I can tell you that while it wasn’t windy, or cold, But the rain made it kinda miserable and I think we saw that with both Os.  And you know the whole backups vs starters thing...

 

I will say this, the best part of the game was the tailgate - as usual, Hammer’s Lot was a blast.  Shouts to Mead for the amazing Stromboli (dare I say “legendary”?), Donnie, Captain, Kenny, @BuffaloShouts (an Insta must follow), Moulds80 and crew, PTR (another New Englander and a HECK of a guy), and of course Hammer himself.  Thanks to all of you and everyone I didn’t list - y’all are like family!  Hope everyone that had a VT beer got nice and warm before the game...

 

And while the outcome wasn’t what we were looking for, it’s the next game that REALLY matters.  Can’t wait for Houston - bring em on!

 

Lastly, Go Bills!!

 

[GG]

 Tiny moral victory is that Jets dropped 2 spots in draft order to No. 11.  Sadly they have the weakest SoS of the 7-9 teams, and didn’t drop into the mid round.

[PolishPrince]

23 minutes ago, MDH said:

 

Let’s hear those games. They’ve been very solid since early season.

 

 

 

Here you go:

 

 

[billsfan_34]

2 minutes ago, PolishPrince said:

Here you go:

 

 

Teams still does nothing special- however they did clean up some towards the latter part of the season.

[CaptnCoke11]

2 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

Small complaint. Why didn’t McDermott challenge that total bogus OPI on Sweeney? 

Probably less than 1% it’s overturned.  

[MDH]

16 minutes ago, PolishPrince said:

Here you go:

 

 

You’re quoting posts from September when I clearly said, “they’ve been very solid since early season.”

Edit: Also, do you know who was inactive for several early season games? Robert Foster. Coincidence?

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by MDH

[gobills1212]

3 hours ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

No way you're a Jets fan today and feeling good about the way this season ended. 

 

They came a few competent QB plays away from losing to the Jills.

They still are sticking to the company line they ended up w the better QB and Allen is bad at throwing the football. I get it, they can judge Sam better than we can as they see every snap he plays. Their (as ours would be) knocks against him are more hearsay as well as more defensive than anything else as you dont want to be the team who chose the wrong guy let alone have your rival be the team that picked the right guy. It may just simply be Sam hasnt had the same atmosphere as Josh, conducive to learning and growing. If Gase really brushes of criticism by answering he doesnt care bc hes rich AF and stuff like Darnold was the only qb he didnt bring in in MIA bc he wasnt a fan are true - thats not a good situation for a young qb. It seems the jets have a Gase problem. This win hurt them 2fold as it was a weak win against backups that they just eeekkkked by. They didnt look good, struggled and sure they won, but it wasnt pretty and was the opposite of the morale booster. When they say they werent impressed w Allen today its maddening BUT its more them coping w their situation than them actually assessing the qb. In reality, if your opinion is made in 2 series when it was more about situational reps than calling plays with any context - youd already made an assessment or just arent that smart....

[MasterStrategist]

18 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I wouldn’t call two key players leaving in walking boots, minor.

Not minor, but considering our relatively fortunate season (knock on wood) with injuries, overall it is a good situation heading into week 1 of playoffs.

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, jkeerie said:

I agree to an extent but there's no rhyme nor reason to it.  I can't fault McD for not wanting to risk losing a challenge and a time out. 

 

McD has an angel on his shoulder, or consider it a challenge flag caddie. This staff does do some self-scouting and McD had to know that his challenge flag success rate was pretty low the past few years so perhaps they made some changes.

 

The announcers during the game mentioned that McD was adamant about having just one person who really understood the rules and how they are interpreted in a position to tell him if he should or shouldn't challenge a call on the field. That individual clearly told McD NOT to throw the flag as you could tell he REALLY wanted to throw it, but reluctantly put it back in his pocket after a brief discussion over his headset.

 

Pretty cut and dry. The guy he has placed his trust in to help him make the right decision around challenging calls on the field told him not to throw it so he didn't.

[billsfan_34]

6 minutes ago, MDH said:

You’re quoting posts from September when I clearly said, “they’ve been very solid since early season.”

 

Lets let this die- it doesn’t really matter. Houston here we come!  

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Not minor, but considering our relatively fortunate season (knock on wood) with injuries, overall it is a good situation heading into week 1 of playoffs.

This^^ timing of injuries is never good, but Nsekhe being ready to come back was a real long shot. To many bodies falling around to play OL in his hobbled condition. Wallace is a bigger loss than many give him credit for ( if he can’t go) , hope Fuller is out because we are thin at DB. 

[WideNine]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

This^^ timing of injuries is never good, but Nsekhe being ready to come back was a real long shot. To many bodies falling around to play OL in his hobbled condition. Wallace is a bigger loss than many give him credit for ( if he can’t go) , hope Fuller is out because we are thin at DB. 

 

Not sure if Wallace will be too much of a drop. He has been shaky in coverage and a liability coming up to stop the run. 

 

That being said, I think that he has been trying to improve his game and I would like to see him succeed. I think he just needs to bulk up a bit (without losing speed) and get stronger in his upper body over the offseason so he can win more of the one on one battles and also become a better tackler when he comes up in run support. Kevin and Taron Johnson should be able step up and fill with a week of prep as they have been splitting reps with him any ways.

 

I was surprised to see Nsekhe out there too; was probably a bit early for him to come back.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

31 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Probably less than 1% it’s overturned.  

Yeah, but why not push the refs there some? It was a nothing game in the first half,  and I would have liked to have put the refs on the spot to defend that call. It was clear that the refs just assumed the defender was pushed by Sweeney, when it was clear that he slipped and fell down. 

[Big Blitz]

Lol Jets comments after today.  "Huge" going in to off season 6-2.  Mmmm k.  

 

Beat our 3rd stringers today barely.  

Beat Pittsburgh by 6 at home. 

Got assaulted by Baltimore.

Beat Miami by 1 at home. 

Lost badly to the Bengals 22-6.

Beat the Giants and Raiders at home. 

Beat Washington.

 

Nice job guys!   Huge!  

[Do The Reich Thing]

1 hour ago, tcampbell104 said:

kelly always relied on riech for advice on what the defense was doing

Barkley is not Reich lol

[TwistofFate]

4 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Perhaps, but what sucked the most about him today was his lack of feel and presence in the pocket. He looked about a full second slow out there. 

Agree.   Complete lack of awareness most of the day and carelessness with the ball.

[TwistofFate]

4 hours ago, dakrider said:

This game basically just reinforced how pitiful the Bills offense actually is, regardless of who's playing out there.  From play calling to execution to mistakes there's something on every possession that prevents this team from consistently scoring.  

It actually reinforced to me, the strides this team made as a unit.  

 

This game reminded me of week 1, only this time around is was 2nd stringers out there and they were unable to scrap out a win. 

 

I believe the first unit would have dominated the Jets today.