Allen slammed on ESPN

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Always controversial 

 

Just a buffoon lol

[Billsfan1972]

And Dan hit the nail on the head (as wrong as he was about Allen & the 4th quarter).....  No one is turning on the Bills (outside their & the opponents fans) Sunday @ 1:00 pm when there are 8 games to see a 17-16 game.....

 

BTW opposite the Baltimore game was a yawner NO vs. SF, which we know would have upset McD & his disciples here.....

[Z-Mann]

I just don't understand how both can't be true - feels like either you love Allen and he can do no wrong...and on the other side, if someone levels some criticism Allen's way, then they must think Allen is terrible and will always be awful.  

 

Both can be true - he's not having the year that we expected and he definitely has some opportunity to get better...but at the same time he's the QB of a playoff team and he has definitely contributed to some of our wins.  His passer rating has improved, along with his TD to INT ratio, and his DVOA is better this year than last.  His completion % also increased significantly as well...so there is a lot to like, and I feel like it's borderline foolish to say he isn't any better this year.

 

On the other side...he's become a game Manager at this point in his early career.  I hope we didn't draft up and pick a QB...to be a good game Manager.  There's nothing wrong with with a QB like this, and teams can win games with good game managers, and teams can make playoffs with good game managers...just have to expect that there is a ceiling with this type of QB, if this ends up being what he is.  

 

It is disheartening to see QB's who are in their first year perform statistically as good or better in 2019 than Allen.  Makes me think that, in today's NFL, anyone can be at LEAST an Andy Dalton or David Carr with any sort of decent coaching, but I was expecting JA to be better than that.  May still happen, just hasn't happen in 2019. 

[billsrul120]

On 12/20/2019 at 4:48 PM, Billsfan1972 said:

No I'm saying that the Bills for some reason (i.e. coaching philosophy & paly calling) have not reached 300 yards passing in almost 3 full seasons, while every friggin  team in the NFL is capable & does it at least once a season.

 

 

Right so you concede that 300 yards doesn't really mean anything to the team winning?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, Z-Mann said:

I just don't understand how both can't be true - feels like either you love Allen and he can do no wrong...and on the other side, if someone levels some criticism Allen's way, then they must think Allen is terrible and will always be awful.  

 

Both can be true - he's not having the year that we expected and he definitely has some opportunity to get better...but at the same time he's the QB of a playoff team and he has definitely contributed to some of our wins.  His passer rating has improved, along with his TD to INT ratio, and his DVOA is better this year than last.  His completion % also increased significantly as well...so there is a lot to like, and I feel like it's borderline foolish to say he isn't any better this year.

 

On the other side...he's become a game Manager at this point in his early career.  I hope we didn't draft up and pick a QB...to be a good game Manager.  There's nothing wrong with with a QB like this, and teams can win games with good game managers, and teams can make playoffs with good game managers...just have to expect that there is a ceiling with this type of QB, if this ends up being what he is.  

 

It is disheartening to see QB's who are in their first year perform statistically as good or better in 2019 than Allen.  Makes me think that, in today's NFL, anyone can be at LEAST an Andy Dalton or David Carr with any sort of decent coaching, but I was expecting JA to be better than that.  May still happen, just hasn't happen in 2019. 

 

In a good or bad way?  I think he's done better than most expected.  There were way more people labeling him a bust before the season started.  He's improved just about everywhere, is he still missing throws, yes, but he still has limited  WR's and his completion percentage will likely never be great as he doesn't throw the 5 yard dump offs.

[C.Biscuit97]

The best part of this are the fans most upset are the ones who call everyone ❄️.  Who cares?  Allen is still pretty raw and while I definitely have seen some very positive signs, this is still a team that wins with its defense.  What do you think they were saying about Mitchell last year and Bortles before? The key for Allen is to prove he is more than along for the ride and without a doubt will get to show that in the playoffs and next year at worse.  

[wppete]

On 12/19/2019 at 6:42 AM, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Start at 6:13. This is some of the most vehement hate for Allen I've seen. Methinks this should find its way to Josh...

 

 

Absolutely ridiculous!

This guy a tool. Probably never played a sport in his life. This guy and his cartoon character father are complete idiots.

[TPS]

1 hour ago, billsrul120 said:

Right so you concede that 300 yards doesn't really mean anything to the team winning?

Fwiw, the top 5 QBs, by total passing yards, are not in the playoffs. 

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, wppete said:

This guy a tool. Probably never played a sport in his life. This guy and his cartoon character father are complete idiots.

As someone who used to have the same logic, are the only people who can call out athletes just former athletes?  
 

we have a different perspective on Allen because we’re Bills fans.  But there’s no way if you’re not a Bills fan, you are as sold on him.  And the best thing is Allen has all the power to prove them wrong. 

[thebandit27]

13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The best part of this are the fans most upset are the ones who call everyone ❄️.  Who cares?  Allen is still pretty raw and while I definitely have seen some very positive signs, this is still a team that wins with its defense.  What do you think they were saying about Mitchell last year and Bortles before? The key for Allen is to prove he is more than along for the ride and without a doubt will get to show that in the playoffs and next year at worse.  

 

No offense here: name one game that this team won with defense.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, TPS said:

Fwiw, the top 5 QBs, by total passing yards, are not in the playoffs. 

Pat Mahomes almost 5,000 yards last year and nearly carried the 2nd worst defense in the nfl to the SB.  Passing yards is not a bad thing.  Why do Bills fans have such an outdated way of thinking?

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Pat Mahomes almost 5,000 yards last year and nearly carried the 2nd worst defense in the nfl to the SB.  Passing yards is not a bad thing.  Why do Bills fans have such an outdated way of thinking?

 

I mean you have to at least admit that it isn't all Mahomes.  Certainly the most important part.  He does however have one of the best offensive coaches ever and targets so good that Watkins is the 4th best of the bunch.  Id take Brown and Beasley all day but this offense is lacking in more than just Allen.

[dave mcbride]

10 minutes ago, TPS said:

Fwiw, the top 5 QBs, by total passing yards, are not in the playoffs. 

Yet QBs ranked 6-11 are all in the playoffs. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by dave mcbride

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

No offense here: name one game that this team won with defense.

I know you’re smart that making this a trick question because the defense has scored no tds.  But:

 

Jets game. 16-0, could have been a blow out in the first half with the turnovers and short fields.  Offense doesn’t score until Moslesy leaves.  Defense is the only reason the game was winnable.

 

Titans. 
 

pit.

 

its a team game I know.  This defense gives Allen more chances to win games that most teams.  Other teams with bad defenses, see the Falcons, put their offense in immediate holes. Allen rarely has to deal with that.  And it’s not even a knock. It’s a good strategy for a young qb.  And as I always go back to, either Allen is Bortles or Mitchell or he’s Brady or Wilson.  But without a doubt, the defense is the MVP of this team.  Allen with a bad defense would be struggling big time. 

 

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I mean you have to at least admit that it isn't all Mahomes.  Certainly the most important part.  He does however have one of the best offensive coaches ever and targets so good that Watkins is the 4th best of the bunch.  Id take Brown and Beasley all day but this offense is lacking in more than just Allen.

I don’t disagree. But that great offensive coach targeted Mahomes and traded up for him.  He took a team to levels even a solid qb like Smith couldn’t imagine.  He’s just an elite player.  
 

At this point, Allen is a solid game manager with big play ability. You could do a lot worse that that.  Now the next step (and we may not see it this year because of the game plan) is if Allen can carry the team when the defense struggles. He almost got it done of Saturday and definitely made some big boy throws. 

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I know you’re smart that making this a trick question because the defense has scored no tds.  But:

 

Jets game. 16-0, could have been a blow out in the first half with the turnovers and short fields.  Offense doesn’t score until Moslesy leaves.  Defense is the only reason the game was winnable.

 

Titans. 
 

pit.

 

its a team game I know.  This defense gives Allen more chances to win games that most teams.  Other teams with bad defenses, see the Falcons, put their offense in immediate holes. Allen rarely has to deal with that.  And it’s not even a knock. It’s a good strategy for a young qb.  And as I always go back to, either Allen is Bortles or Mitchell or he’s Brady or Wilson.  But without a doubt, the defense is the MVP of this team.  Allen with a bad defense would be struggling big time. 

 

I don’t disagree. But that great offensive coach targeted Mahomes and traded up for him.  He took a team to levels even a solid qb like Smith couldn’t imagine.  He’s just an elite player.  
 

At this point, Allen is a solid game manager with big play ability. You could do a lot worse that that.  Now the next step (and we may not see it this year because of the game plan) is if Allen can carry the team when the defense struggles. He almost got it done of Saturday and definitely made some big boy throws. 

 

Touched a nerve huh?

 

Look, the simple fact is that the team is not winning with defense. There are teams that do; the 2000 Ravens, 2015 Broncos, and 2019 Pats****** come to mind.

 

The QB has scored more TDs than all but a handful of other QBs in the league. That's decidedly NOT winning with defense. 

 

And for the record regarding non-Bills fan opinions of Allen: I have close friends that are both NE****** and Miami fans; each is unequivocally and thoroughly sold on Allen as a franchise QB.

[Scott7975]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I know you’re smart that making this a trick question because the defense has scored no tds.  But:

 

Jets game. 16-0, could have been a blow out in the first half with the turnovers and short fields.  Offense doesn’t score until Moslesy leaves.  Defense is the only reason the game was winnable.

 

Titans. 
 

pit.

 

its a team game I know.  This defense gives Allen more chances to win games that most teams.  Other teams with bad defenses, see the Falcons, put their offense in immediate holes. Allen rarely has to deal with that.  And it’s not even a knock. It’s a good strategy for a young qb.  And as I always go back to, either Allen is Bortles or Mitchell or he’s Brady or Wilson.  But without a doubt, the defense is the MVP of this team.  Allen with a bad defense would be struggling big time. 

 

I don’t disagree. But that great offensive coach targeted Mahomes and traded up for him.  He took a team to levels even a solid qb like Smith couldn’t imagine.  He’s just an elite player.  
 

At this point, Allen is a solid game manager with big play ability. You could do a lot worse that that.  Now the next step (and we may not see it this year because of the game plan) is if Allen can carry the team when the defense struggles. He almost got it done of Saturday and definitely made some big boy throws. 

 

I agree with you here man.  I think we are so close but not quite there yet.  Allen was so far behind, but I think has made good progress.  Another couple pieces on offense (for me a big target Allen can rely on to make the imperfect pass turn into a completion, and a little better on the O-line) and I think we will be even closer.  Allen I feel needs a ways to go but I also feel with time he will get there.  

 

Allen works hard to improve and it actually shows.  I have heard tons of other QBs that talk about working hard and stuff but it never shows.  There is a lot of promise here.  I think Allen CAN be that great QB.  I think it will just take another year or two to really show.

[reddogblitz]

28 minutes ago, TPS said:

Fwiw, the top 5 QBs, by total passing yards, are not in the playoffs. 

 

and of those 31 teams thAt have thrown for 300 yards, 22 of them are behind us in the W column.

Edited December 23, 2019 by reddogblitz

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Touched a nerve huh?

 

Look, the simple fact is that the team is not winning with defense. There are teams that do; the 2000 Ravens, 2015 Broncos, and 2019 Pats****** come to mind.

 

The QB has scored more TDs than all but a handful of other QBs in the league. That's decidedly NOT winning with defense. 

 

And for the record regarding non-Bills fan opinions of Allen: I have close friends that are both NE****** and Miami fans; each is unequivocally and thoroughly sold on Allen as a franchise QB.

Honestly, bro and it’s know it’s post. But I feel great and probably the most in on Allen since he’s been drafted.  Don’t what nerve you think you touched but it’s all good.  
 

I think this is a smart situation.  But let’s not pretend like Allen doesn’t benefit hugely from this defense.  This team can score 7 points for 3 quarters and still have a chance to win.  Not many qbs have that luxury.  And to Allen’s credit, he’s made plays at the end of games.   Mitchell T scored 27 tds in 14 games last year.  

7 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I agree with you here man.  I think we are so close but not quite there yet.  Allen was so far behind, but I think has made good progress.  Another couple pieces on offense (for me a big target Allen can rely on to make the imperfect pass turn into a completion, and a little better on the O-line) and I think we will be even closer.  Allen I feel needs a ways to go but I also feel with time he will get there.  

 

Allen works hard to improve and it actually shows.  I have heard tons of other QBs that talk about working hard and stuff but it never shows.  There is a lot of promise here.  I think Allen CAN be that great QB.  I think it will just take another year or two to really show.

Good post. I admit that guys like Allen scare me as qb prospects.  Guys with Allen’s production in a lower level conference rarely become franchise guys.

 

bur he certainly is doing his part and showing growth.  I would like to see a game against a good team where I can say without doubt Allen is the reason we won it.  He was very close against NE and as much as it sucked, I actually felt the best about him.  I still had the droughts we go on offense sometimes and think that is part of Allen’s inconsistency at this point.  But id be lying if I said there were a bunch of good things too.

[thebandit27]

27 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Honestly, bro and it’s know it’s post. But I feel great and probably the most in on Allen since he’s been drafted.  Don’t what nerve you think you touched but it’s all good.  
 

I think this is a smart situation.  But let’s not pretend like Allen doesn’t benefit hugely from this defense.  This team can score 7 points for 3 quarters and still have a chance to win.  Not many qbs have that luxury.  And to Allen’s credit, he’s made plays at the end of games.   Mitchell T scored 27 tds in 14 games last year.  

Good post. I admit that guys like Allen scare me as qb prospects.  Guys with Allen’s production in a lower level conference rarely become franchise guys.

 

bur he certainly is doing his part and showing growth.  I would like to see a game against a good team where I can say without doubt Allen is the reason we won it.  He was very close against NE and as much as it sucked, I actually felt the best about him.  I still had the droughts we go on offense sometimes and think that is part of Allen’s inconsistency at this point.  But id be lying if I said there were a bunch of good things too.

 

Of course man; you know we're just talking 'ball.

?

[GoBills808]

Boooooo more fighting

[BringBackOrton]

43 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Touched a nerve huh?

 

Look, the simple fact is that the team is not winning with defense. There are teams that do; the 2000 Ravens, 2015 Broncos, and 2019 Pats****** come to mind.

 

The QB has scored more TDs than all but a handful of other QBs in the league. That's decidedly NOT winning with defense. 

 

And for the record regarding non-Bills fan opinions of Allen: I have close friends that are both NE****** and Miami fans; each is unequivocally and thoroughly sold on Allen as a franchise QB.

Oh dear god. Your point this whole time is this team doesn’t win games with their defense because the defense doesn’t score TD’s??

 

Even though the offense is like 23rd in points and the defense is 2nd in points allowed?

 

Was that the case in 2014 too? Mario as a DPOY candidate and those other boys had a top 4 defense, but because they didn’t score (on defense) a lot, it was really Kyle Orton who was the Bills MVP?

 

Is there a Josh Allen gas leak in here?

[thebandit27]

2 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Oh dear god. Your point this whole time is this team doesn’t win games with their defense because the defense doesn’t score TD’s??

 

Even though the offense is like 23rd in points and the defense is 2nd in points allowed?

 

Was that the case in 2014 too? Mario as a DPOY candidate and those other boys had a top 4 defense, but because they didn’t score (on defense) a lot, it was really Kyle Orton who was the Bills MVP?

 

Is there a Josh Allen gas leak in here?

 

Broseph, take a pill and relax.

 

The point should be really easy to understand: when the QB is among the leaders at his position in TDs scored, and the team has a grand total of 1 non-offensive TDs (that coming on an onside kick in a decided contest), you can't exactly claim that the team is "winning with defense".

 

Winning with defense is the Baltimore Ravens in 2000 going 5 games without an offensive TD. Winning with defense is the 2015 Broncos overcoming a 1:2 TD:INT ratio from a broken Peyton Manning.

 

Holding teams to less than 17 points is wonderful. It wins you zero games if the offense doesn't put up more than that.

 

Maybe you see the distinction and maybe you don't, but either way it's very easy to understand.

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Broseph, take a pill and relax.

 

The point should be really easy to understand: when the QB is among the leaders at his position in TDs scored, and the team has a grand total of 1 non-offensive TDs (that coming on an onside kick in a decided contest), you can't exactly claim that the team is "winning with defense".

 

Winning with defense is the Baltimore Ravens in 2000 going 5 games without an offensive TD. Winning with defense is the 2015 Broncos overcoming a 1:2 TD:INT ratio from a broken Peyton Manning.

 

Holding teams to less than 17 points is wonderful. It wins you zero games if the offense doesn't put up more than that.

 

Maybe you see the distinction and maybe you don't, but either way it's very easy to understand.

Incredibly, you point to the QB TD totals instead of points scored by our offense, in a debate about POINTS SCORED BY OUR OFFENSE.

 

It’s just sooo intellectually lazy and obvious. 

 

Heres another stat for you. Our offensive units field position ranking is 7th in the NFL. Who decides offensive field position? The defense and special teams mostly, no? Incredibly, the offense (including Josh), squander that to the tune of 25th in yards and 24th in points per drive, and 20th in time per drive.

 

Meanwhile, the defense is 11th in field position, but is SECOND in points per drive. And 11th in time per drive. The defense quite literally gets the offense the ball in great spots, doesn’t allow terribly long drives and doesn’t allow lots of points. And the offense is STILL bad.

 

Your opinion regarding this matter is clearly flawed. You’re using some weird pseudo definition to defend a point that clearly falls on its face with even a cursory examination of the facts. 

[thebandit27]

19 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Incredibly, you point to the QB TD totals instead of points scored by our offense, in a debate about POINTS SCORED BY OUR OFFENSE.

 

It’s just sooo intellectually lazy and obvious. 

 

Heres another stat for you. Our offensive units field position ranking is 7th in the NFL. Who decides offensive field position? The defense and special teams mostly, no? Incredibly, the offense (including Josh), squander that to the tune of 25th in yards and 24th in points per drive, and 20th in time per drive.

 

Meanwhile, the defense is 11th in field position, but is SECOND in points per drive. And 11th in time per drive. The defense quite literally gets the offense the ball in great spots, doesn’t allow terribly long drives and doesn’t allow lots of points. And the offense is STILL bad.

 

Your opinion regarding this matter is clearly flawed. You’re using some weird pseudo definition to defend a point that clearly falls on its face with even a cursory examination of the facts. 

 

Ok then, let's simplify it for you...here is a comprehensive list of every game the team would've won without the contributions of the offense:

 

 

 

 

 

[TPS]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Pat Mahomes almost 5,000 yards last year and nearly carried the 2nd worst defense in the nfl to the SB.  Passing yards is not a bad thing.  Why do Bills fans have such an outdated way of thinking?

It was not meant as a comment against passing yards. Just pointing out having a prolific passing game isn’t necessary for winning it all. Ask the Rams. 

However, Give allen a true #1 and I’m sure he’ll hit some 300 yard games and make people happy....

[BuffaloBill963]

On 12/21/2019 at 2:13 PM, Billsfan1972 said:

And Dan hit the nail on the head (as wrong as he was about Allen & the 4th quarter).....  No one is turning on the Bills (outside their & the opponents fans) Sunday @ 1:00 pm when there are 8 games to see a 17-16 game.....

 

BTW opposite the Baltimore game was a yawner NO vs. SF, which we know would have upset McD & his disciples here.....

So when building a team they should care about the entertainment value as determined by casual fans who don’t know and appreciate football?

[BringBackOrton]

17 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Ok then, let's simplify it for you...here is a comprehensive list of every game the team would've won without the contributions of the offense:

 

 

 

 

 

Incredible. You proved that you need to score points to win games in the NFL. Any team that scores even a FG on offense is clearly being carried by them.

 

Here’s a fun stat:

 

The 2015 Broncos averaged more PPG on offense than the 2019 Bills. And the 2019 Bills averaged less PPG allowed on defense than the 2015 Broncos.

 

Wasnt that your team that DEFINED a defense carrying the offense?

[thebandit27]

12 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Incredible. You proved that you need to score points to win games in the NFL. Any team that scores even a FG on offense is clearly being carried by them.

 

Here’s a fun stat:

 

The 2015 Broncos averaged more PPG on offense than the 2019 Bills. And the 2019 Bills averaged less PPG allowed on defense than the 2015 Broncos.

 

Wasnt that your team that DEFINED a defense carrying the offense?

 

No, no they didn't average more offensive points.

 

The team scored 355 points...but,

get this: the defense scored 35 and the STs scored 14. So...yeah, they scored pretty much the same as

Buffalo has through 15 games.

 

But even at that minutiae, you're missing it. The Denver defense scored the deciding points in 4 games that season. Four games in which the defense scored the game-winning TD. Defense. Winning games.

 

There's a difference. If you don't get it at this stage there isn't much more I can do.

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill963 said:

So when building a team they should care about the entertainment value as determined by casual fans who don’t know and appreciate football?

I know, appreciate football & am a Bills fan.

 

I also can tell you they are not a fun team to watch......  

 

I know as fans this is hard to understand, but they are a very boring team the way they play football....

 

K-Gun was fun, so was a lot of the Flutie run.  OJ & ground & pound was not that exciting & McD & this coaching philosophy has been successful against a weak schedule going 10-5, however the games have not been overly entertaining.....

 

Yep the Offense the past three years ranked 31, 30 & 24(or 25) too does not excite most football fans.....

 

And the bothersome part is I think this offense could be fun to watch, McD & Daboll however won't allow it.

 

Are none of you honest and can't see that?

Edited December 24, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[Johnnycage46]

19 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I know, appreciate football & am a Bills fan.

 

I also can tell you they are not a fun team to watch......  

 

I know as fans this is hard to understand, but they are a very boring team the way they play football....

 

K-Gun was fun, so was a lot of the Flutie run.  OJ & ground & pound was not that exciting & McD & this coaching philosophy has been successful against a weak schedule going 10-5, however the games have not been overly entertaining.....

 

Yep the Offense the past three years ranked 31, 30 & 24(or 25) too does not excite most football fans.....

 

And the bothersome part is I think this offense could be fun to watch, McD & Daboll however won't allow it.

 

Are none of you honest and can't see that?

Your posts are not fun to read.  Are you actually a Bills fan?  Serious question.  Because you seem very upset that the team is in the playoffs.  What more can the team do for you to make you happy? 

[BuffaloBill963]

49 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I know, appreciate football & am a Bills fan.

 

I also can tell you they are not a fun team to watch......  

 

I know as fans this is hard to understand, but they are a very boring team the way they play football....

 

K-Gun was fun, so was a lot of the Flutie run.  OJ & ground & pound was not that exciting & McD & this coaching philosophy has been successful against a weak schedule going 10-5, however the games have not been overly entertaining.....

 

Yep the Offense the past three years ranked 31, 30 & 24(or 25) too does not excite most football fans.....

 

And the bothersome part is I think this offense could be fun to watch, McD & Daboll however won't allow it.

 

Are none of you honest and can't see that?

I love watching them and absolutely love watching our defense on point especially. I also understand where they are in the development process on offense.

 

I’m not the 18 year girlfriend of some football fan that the nfl apparently wants to appeal to. That’s what you come off as w this argument.

[london_bills]

Just something to mention..

 

There is generally a change of belief in allen I sense from this game. Even if you believed in him before, the long pass was missing. 

 

I feel like people feel more sure of him now after the Pats game. He hit a couple of deep balls in this game which we're a big thing and was an arguement against him beforehand. 

 

Before this game he hadn't hit these with alot of regularity as we all know so that was form of monkey off his back.  It's a big thing to hit those and it was great to see. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by london_bills

[BringBackOrton]

3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

No, no they didn't average more offensive points.

 

The team scored 355 points...but,

get this: the defense scored 35 and the STs scored 14. So...yeah, they scored pretty much the same as

Buffalo has through 15 games.

 

But even at that minutiae, you're missing it. The Denver defense scored the deciding points in 4 games that season. Four games in which the defense scored the game-winning TD. Defense. Winning games.

 

There's a difference. If you don't get it at this stage there isn't much more I can do.

Wait wait wait!

4 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Ok then, let's simplify it for you...here is a comprehensive list of every game the team would've won without the contributions of the offense:

 

 

 

 

 

Can we play this fun game with the 2015 Broncos? I’ll start:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like the defense didn’t carry the team after all that year. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by BringBackOrton

[Dr.Sack]

ESPN is right about one thing Josh Allen is the most inaccurate starting QB in the NFL. Outside of that stats we get a range of opinions.  I think Allen simply doesn’t read the defense early enough & doesn’t get to his hot read early enough. Instead he stays in the pocket or scrambles trying to find deeper patterns developing. There is no shame in getting the ball out early on 1st or 2nd down passes.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill963 said:

I love watching them and absolutely love watching our defense on point especially. I also understand where they are in the development process on offense.

 

I’m not the 18 year girlfriend of some football fan that the nfl apparently wants to appeal to. That’s what you come off as w this argument.

Agreed. You don’t go from 31st in passing to 10th in one offseason. I’m enjoying watching  them this season while still wanting the offense to improve. If some fans want to call the Bills boring, Ill take boring if that means wins and playoff games. It beats watching a team with lots of 300 yard passing games , but few wins and your thoughts turning to the draft by Thanksgiving. We’ve certainly been there before , and for far too long. 

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I know, appreciate football & am a Bills fan.

 

I also can tell you they are not a fun team to watch......  

 

I know as fans this is hard to understand, but they are a very boring team the way they play football....

 

K-Gun was fun, so was a lot of the Flutie run.  OJ & ground & pound was not that exciting & McD & this coaching philosophy has been successful against a weak schedule going 10-5, however the games have not been overly entertaining.....

 

Yep the Offense the past three years ranked 31, 30 & 24(or 25) too does not excite most football fans.....

 

And the bothersome part is I think this offense could be fun to watch, McD & Daboll however won't allow it.

 

Are none of you honest and can't see that?

In your opinion.  And we’re sick of it.  There are some like me who like watching good defense, or a good running play.  And I watched every game OJ played and if you didn’t think he was an exciting football player you’re nuts.

 

We are sick of you hijacking thread after thread after thread to continue to spout off about what is or is not exciting football.  We are tired of you going off all the time about the necessity of a 300 yard passing game when you have been shown dozens of times it does not correlate with wins.  And we are especially sick of you pledging your fandom for the team when you have made it abundantly clear you care more about being what you call entertained than having a winning Bills team.

 

You don’t like the way they play that’s too damn bad.  Then don’t watch.  Or find an more exciting team that entertains you.  Or go to the movies.  Just quit trying to make this your personal chat room to promote your agenda time and again. 

 

Mods, am I wrong?

[thebandit27]

6 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Wait wait wait!

Can we play this fun game with the 2015 Broncos? I’ll start:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like the defense didn’t carry the team after all that year. 

 

Good job springing the trap on yourself. The next most logical step is this: remove all non-offensive TDs from the 2019 Bills, and their record doesn't change. Remove all non-offensive TDs from the 2015 Broncos, and they lose an additional 4 regular season games. Haven't looked at the playoffs, but their first TD in the Super Bowl was defensive as well.

[BringBackOrton]

58 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Good job springing the trap on yourself. The next most logical step is this: remove all non-offensive TDs from the 2019 Bills, and their record doesn't change. Remove all non-offensive TDs from the 2015 Broncos, and they lose an additional 4 regular season games. Haven't looked at the playoffs, but their first TD in the Super Bowl was defensive as well.

Spring the trap? You didn’t even try to fill in my chart.

 

Please let me know what games in 2015 the Broncos would have won without their offensive contributions.

 

You can’t jump to the “next most logical step” without doing your part!

 

In the meantime, I’m gonna alert the NFL that their record keeping is wrong. Josh Allen contributed 2 TD’s in the Pats game and Tom Brady only contributed 1! Our QB scored more points and number of touchdowns than their QB did. That means we must have actually won the game (carried by our offense of course.)

Edited December 24, 2019 by BringBackOrton

[thebandit27]

8 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Spring the trap? You didn’t even try to fill in my chart.

 

Please let me know what games in 2015 the Broncos would have won without their offensive contributions.

 

You can’t jump to the “next most logical step” without doing your part!

 

In the meantime, I’m gonna alert the NFL that their record keeping is wrong. Josh Allen contributed 2 TD’s in the Pats game and Tom Brady only contributed 1! Our QB scored more points and number of touchdowns than their QB did. That means we must have actually won the game (carried by our offense of course.)

 

Ok man. Whatever you say. The defense is the only reason that the team has won any games.

[SoTier]

8 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I know, appreciate football & am a Bills fan.

 

I also can tell you they are not a fun team to watch......  

 

I know as fans this is hard to understand, but they are a very boring team the way they play football....

 

K-Gun was fun, so was a lot of the Flutie run.  OJ & ground & pound was not that exciting & McD & this coaching philosophy has been successful against a weak schedule going 10-5, however the games have not been overly entertaining.....

 

Yep the Offense the past three years ranked 31, 30 & 24(or 25) too does not excite most football fans.....

 

And the bothersome part is I think this offense could be fun to watch, McD & Daboll however won't allow it.

 

Are none of you honest and can't see that?

 

You know what's really not a fun to watch???   Watching your team lose 9,10 or 11 games season after season for almost 20 years. 

 

I'm not a big Beane/McDermott fan, and I remain skeptical about the team's commitment to building a team truly good enough to compete seriously for the Super Bowl, but that's an issue for the off season  It doesn't diminish how great it feels as a fan to FINALLY have a Bills team that's not only competitive in every game, but also wins most of the time ... or a team that again has "nothing to play for" in week 17, but finally for the right reason: a clinched playoff berth.

 

How can you NOT find a December game in Foxborough with playoff seedings on the line for both teams entertaining, especially when the Bills not only played the defending Super Bowl champion Patriots close but also had a real chance to tie the game in the closing seconds???