Why You Shouldn’t Feel Completely Dejected Over Josh Allen’s Poor Performance

[RichRiderBills]

8 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Some yes and some no to this. Josh missing the deep balls impact how the game can be called. They literally played one on one with no safety much of the game because they had no concern Josh could hit one of those. That shrinks the field drastically. 

There are other ways to counter a blitz than deep outs. 

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Indeed

 

 

I gave McKenzie a drop on the end zone ball that hit him in the hands

 

I feel like Devin mis-timed his jump; he probably could've had that one

I don't think he could have caught that even if he hadn't jumped. It wasn't a terrible throw, but it wasn't as accurate as it could have been. 

[thebandit27]

Just now, RichRiderBills said:

I thought the last throw to Brown was a drop. Yes, Smith got a hand in to knock around, but i felt it could have been wrangled in.

 

I wouldn't call it a drop if it never hit his hands. I would say, however, that (irrespective of that play) Brown shows a bothersome lack of competitiveness on critical passes.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, mannc said:

I didn’t see a great replay of it, but I think the last pass to Brown was catchable.  The DB was all over Brown, but I don’t think he actually got his hand on the ball.  I could be wrong, though.

Peters knocked it away. It was a great play by the DB on a good throw and a good route. There are good players on the other side too!

[thebandit27]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I don't think he could have caught that even if he hadn't jumped. It wasn't a terrible throw, but it wasn't as accurate as it could have been. 

 

I'd like to see that one again from the eye in the sky. 

[Big Gun]

2 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I'm sorry.  17/39 is putrid.  Needs to be better.  Yes, some drops, but also at least 5 poorly thrown balls that would have led to at least 14 points

Bad passes are bad passes and nothing could be done about them but had the drops been caught Josh stat line might look something like 25/39 250 yards 1TD 0 int, is that acceptable to all you haters?

[dave mcbride]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

 

I'd like to see that one again from the eye in the sky. 

Agreed.

Just now, pop gun said:

Bad passes are bad passes and nothing could be done about them but had the drops been caught Josh stat line might look something like 25/39 250 yards 1TD 0 int, is that acceptable to all you haters?

There definitely weren't 8 drops.

[VW82]

45 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Did he really get outplayed by Lamar though?  Maybe if you consider that Lamar found the endzone 3 times whereas Allen could only lead the offense to FG’s for most of the game.  
 

Other than that, it appeared that both struggled versus good defenses

 

I think he absolutely got outplayed when you consider the context. Lamar was on the road in a notoriously difficult place to play vs. the slightly better defense by most metrics and without his top target for most of the game. Josh had every advantage and yet Lamar passed for more yards, ran for more yards, did it more efficiently, and his team won. 

[colin]

allen sucks to start, and was kinda ok after.  the sack fumble was entirely on the blocking, that was disgusting.

 

as a team, how can we not do anything vs good man coverage and a blitz?  NE and Balt have sick secondaries, and they roughed us up up front, but the missed blocks and that are just too much.

 

what really stands out to me (and don't get me wrong, Lamar outplayed Josh totally yesterday) is that the ravens have the whole O running plays that are easier to execute, while we have tight ends one on one blocking solid pass rushers, and slow to develop plays vs jailhouse breaks.  obviously allen could read the D pre snap better, and the o line could just do their jobs better, but why are the majority of our plays more complicated than they need to be?

 

all that said, a power back, real RT (a healthy Ty woulda done) and a big body wr who can run (parker in miami, that rookie in denver, there are a few of these guys out there) would have delivered a win for us today.

[ngbills]

9 minutes ago, Mango said:

Most had a TD (except Watson, Dalton, Goff) 

Everybody threw a pick, Josh did not, but he dd lose a fumble

Josh threw for the least yards

Josh had the worst Y/A

Josh had the worst completion percentage 

 

I do not understand the comparable. Dude had a very bad game against a good defense. It is OK, as long as it does not become a pattern moving forward. I don't understand the need for everybody to say he did fine. He didn't. 

 

He was bad. Play calling was bad. Offensive line was bad. All of these things can be true, and it does not have to be a pie/mutually exclusive. He has been better the last 3 weeks. Concerning to have this bad of showing against very good defenses. Hopefully this does not become a pattern. We will find out against Pitt and NE, whose DVOA are both better than Baltimore. If JA lays another clunker against Pitt and NE 2.0, there is cause for concern. If he can carve at least one of them up, it is just part of the maturation process. 

This just makes too much sense and is too rational. You are only allowed to hate Allen or think everything he does is perfect and its always someone else fault. 

[london_bills]

1 hour ago, buffalobillswin said:

His inability to connect on deep throws is very worrying. I’m not saying he needs to complete every deep pass but when receivers are running two steps ahead of the cornerback, at least some of those passes need to land. It’s very hard to win in this league 5 yards at a time. 

Totally. If your a high drafted QB you have to be able to hit them. There just isn't an excuse long term.

[Big Blitz]

15 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Whose D is better - ours or BALT?

 

Baltimore.  They have better depth at Corner and the scheme creates pressure.  From everywhere. 

 

My D ranks:

 

Baltimore 

New England 

Buffalo 

San Francisco 

Chicago

Rams 

[Lurker]

I'm not down on Josh today.   I'm down on Dabol, however.

 

The play calling never seemed to adjust to the Ravens blitzing.  They had 10 days to work on a game plan and came up with something that looked like it was written up in 10 minutes.   Where were the hot reads, screens to make the front 7 back off, 5-yard outlets to the TE, putting the FB in to help with the pass blocking and on and on.   

 

I know, I know...we've got personnel limitations.  Maybe we can't run those kind of plays enough.   But damn it, that what the OC and other coaches are paid to adjust to.   

 

I also know Josh feels more comfortable in the spread.   But that played right into the hands of the Ravens blitzers, giving them easy open lanes to the QB.   About the only time I saw a good adjustment was Beasley's TD and 2-point conversion.   Hard to believe that was the only time those routes were open during the game.

 

The last thing I'm pissed about is how the coaching staff repeatedly left Josh to sit and stew on the sidelines, rather than being in his ear, showing him all-22 photos or just building him up.   There must have been 8-10 shots during the broadcast of him sitting on the bench by himself, looking like he'd just been run over by a bus.   Coaching would have helped his mental state a lot, IMO. 

 

It's clear the Steelers will bring the same defensive game plan Sunday night.    If the coaching staff doesn't adjust to the 'book' that's now out on Josh, this team doesn't deserve to win a playoff berth. 

 

End or Rant...

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Peters knocked it away. It was a great play by the DB on a good throw and a good route. There are good players on the other side too!

I am not so sure about that. I think it hit Brown in both hands

 

[Lurker]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

I am not so sure about that. I think it hit Brown in both hands

 

It did.  And Peters knocked it out...

[Mango]

10 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I'm not down on Josh today.   I'm down on Dabol, however.

 

The play calling never seemed to adjust to the Ravens blitzing.  They had 10 days to work on a game plan and came up with something that looked like it was written up in 10 minutes.   Where were the hot reads, screens to make the front 7 back off, 5-yard outlets to the TE, putting the FB in to help with the pass blocking and on and on.   

 

I know, I know...we've got personnel limitations.  Maybe we can't run those kind of plays enough.   But damn it, that what the OC and other coaches are paid to adjust to.   

 

I also know Josh feels more comfortable in the spread.   But that played right into the hands of the Ravens blitzers, giving them easy open lanes to the QB.   About the only time I saw a good adjustment was Beasley's TD and 2-point conversion.   Hard to believe that was the only time those routes were open during the game.

 

The last thing I'm pissed about is how the coaching staff repeatedly left Josh to sit and stew on the sidelines, rather than being in his ear, showing him all-22 photos or just building him up.   There must have been 8-10 shots during the broadcast of him sitting on the bench by himself, looking like he'd just been run over by a bus.   Coaching would have helped his mental state a lot, IMO. 

 

It's clear the Steelers will bring the same defensive game plan Sunday night.    If the coaching staff doesn't adjust to the 'book' that's now out on Josh, this team doesn't deserve to win a playoff berth. 

 

End or Rant...

 

We did call a bunch of screens, many of which were absolutely maddening. Our screen game is pretty terrible even with guys like Singletary, Mckenzie, and Foster. It has been bad all year, I don't really understand it. 

 

I am unsure if Josh just kept looking deep, trying to make something happen, or there was just a total lack of digs, slants, and crossers. Those would have been really helpful in holding the blitz off. 

 

It was clear by about the 4:00 mark that the game plan was trash on offense. Which is concerning given 10 days to put one together. 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Mango

[Elite Poster]

I'm not down on his poor game moving forward. It happens, he isn't going to be dealing every week. Just disappointed he wasn't able to adjust at all to the blitz. Kept looking far down field when Cole was open a lot underneath. 

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I am not so sure about that. I think it hit Brown in both hands

 

I just watched the replay again multiple times and it's not at all clear that Peters ever touched the ball.  He clearly affected Brown's ability to catch it, but it doesn't look like he actually touched the ball.  

[Big Blitz]

There were so many plays no WRs were open.

 

No one seems to understand how good that secondary is.  

 

Smith 

Humphrey 

Peters 

And oh yea they have Earl Thomas.  

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

I just watched the replay again multiple times and it's not at all clear that Peters ever touched the ball.  He clearly affected Brown's ability to catch it, but it doesn't look like he actually touched the ball.  

I see it similarly, again I don't count that a drop, it's a difficult play but not unreasonable to expect your best wideout to make that catch imo

[oldmanfan]

Tough day for a young QB.  He certainly could have performed better.  I would say my bigger disappointment was the O line; they got steamrolled all day.  Not sure if it's Josh or Morse that calls out the blocking changes but whoever is doing that, they nee to recognize the blitz, change assigments, and look for the hot read.  Do we truly have hot reads against the blitz?

[Reed83HOF]

35 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The question will be, now that it's on film, will he rebound against Pittsburgh and NE?

It's been on film since week 4 and I am frankly surprised that it hasn't been used much again until now. I expect NE to be a repeat and for sure Pitts will match what Balt did against - as both teams should. 

 

Looking further into the future, what are the moves we make if we can't overcome this? There is a degree of doubt in my head as of now that, we don't have the players or necessarily plays that can beat it. As of now,  Daboll hasn't exactly called great plays against it and the OL, WRs, RB and QB are certianly having issues with it - not all of these players are rookies and frankly Cover 0 is not a new exotic blitz package. Our players can't execute against it and we don't have gimme plays that can beat it. Over the past 10 weeks, we haven't improved against it either. BTW - I am purposely being harsh with this questioning...

 

edit: Balt ran this the entire game once they saw we had no answers for it. We actually can collapse and miss the playoffs if we can't adjust

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Reed83HOF

[CSBill]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I'm dejected because plays were there to be made. I don't really like moral victories. 

 

This!

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I see it similarly, again I don't count that a drop, it's a difficult play but not unreasonable to expect your best wideout to make that catch imo

I also have a problem with Brown’s route.  If he was running closer to parallel with the goal line, I don’t think Peters is able to make that play.

[Phil The Thrill]

47 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

He also missed some of his guys downfield and made some truly terrible decisions with the football, as well as displaying the kind of accuracy on the INT that other QBs get routinely killed for.

Yep I noticed that.  Lamar was under pressure bad and chucked the ball just to get rid of it.  
 

If that was Allen, genius faux analysts like Chi-En Fahey and Bill Barnwell would be RT’ing that play

[Lurker]

4 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

There were so many plays no WRs were open.

 

No one seems to understand how good that secondary is.  

 

I don't buy that entirely.   The laws of physics (i.e., throw the damn ball in 1.5 seconds for a 5-yard gain) can't be undone just because they're good cover guys.   The Pats have won 6 titles doing that.

 

I know, I know...Josh isn't the GOAT.   But give us a least a few of those.   Use the pass as a version of the run game... 

[Reed83HOF]

20 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Peters knocked it away. It was a great play by the DB on a good throw and a good route. There are good players on the other side too!

IIRC, there was not much separation on the play.

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

10 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

There were so many plays no WRs were open.

 

No one seems to understand how good that secondary is.  

 

Smith 

Humphrey 

Peters 

And oh yea they have Earl Thomas.  

I'll use another baseball analogy here. Jim Leyland used to say something along the lines of, "at some point, you've got to stop tipping your cap to good pitching and score some runs."

 

There were plays to be made and they weren't. It's really that simple. It would be unreasonable to expect to light up that Baltimore D, but they're not the 85 Bears. There were drops, there were miscues, there was poor play calling, and Allen made some bad throws on what could and should have been home runs.

 

It's not the end of the world, but this was a missed opportunity. I don't see a silver lining.

 

What I see is an opportunity to go into Pitt and beat a quality team with an excellent defense. That is going to be a really tough game and things could become dicey if it's an L. There will be no moral victories next week.

Edited December 9, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[GoBills808]

Just now, Phil The Thrill said:

Yep I noticed that.  Lamar was under pressure bad and chucked the ball just to get rid of it.  
 

If that was Allen, genius faux analysts like Chi-En Fahey and Bill Barnwell would be RT’ing that play

You will hear nothing about the INT, I guarantee it. And not that it bothers me a ton, but it's indicative of the narrative that in the same breath condemns and excuses similar play.

[VW82]

Bills receivers got credited with three official drops yesterday. Interesting. 

[Phil The Thrill]

18 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

I think he absolutely got outplayed when you consider the context. Lamar was on the road in a notoriously difficult place to play vs. the slightly better defense by most metrics and without his top target for most of the game. Josh had every advantage and yet Lamar passed for more yards, ran for more yards, did it more efficiently, and his team won. 

Check the stats.  Passed for more yards?  Not quite...Josh had 1 more yard, but that doesn’t fit your narrative, so it’s not true.  
 

In terms of rushing, Josh only ran twice and he actually averaged more yards per carry.  But that doesn’t fit your narrative so I guess it didn’t happen. 
 

Also Lamar had the advantage of a short field and a blown coverage.  If you want to say that he outplayed him marginally its fine, but you are straight-up lying to prove to your point.  

[wettlaufer]

The offense was consistently getting to the line around or under 15 ticks on the play clock -- didn't look like Allen got a good amount of time with Daboll looking at the same thing.

 

We need TEs and big receivers to move the ball 7-15 yards past the LOS to neutralize this kind of attacking D. Definitely plays to Duke William's capabilities.

[Phil The Thrill]

22 minutes ago, ngbills said:

This just makes too much sense and is too rational. You are only allowed to hate Allen or think everything he does is perfect and its always someone else fault. 

Give me a break.  My point is that every QB had a very bad game.    Allen’s bad game is certainly comparable to Deshawn Watson, but I don’t see Texan fans says “Watson sucks” 

[VW82]

6 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Check the stats.  Passed for more yards?  Not quite...Josh had 1 more yard, but that doesn’t fit your narrative, so it’s not true.  
 

In terms of rushing, Josh only ran twice and he actually averaged more yards per carry.  But that doesn’t fit your narrative so I guess it didn’t happen. 
 

Also Lamar had the advantage of a short field and a blown coverage.  If you want to say that he outplayed him marginally its fine, but you are straight-up lying to prove to your point.  

 

Are we not counting all the sacks Josh gave up? He had 105 net passing yards compared to 139 for Lamar. 

 

Counting runs, Josh had 114 total yards on 41 drop backs for 2.78 yards per play. Lamar had 179 total yards on 36 drop backs for 4.97 yards per play. No narrative, just numbers. I didn't use any adjectives to qualify how much he got outplayed. I just said he got outplayed. I didn't lie about anything.

Edited December 9, 2019 by VW82

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You will hear nothing about the INT, I guarantee it. And not that it bothers me a ton, but it's indicative of the narrative that in the same breath condemns and excuses similar play.

 

You won't hear about it because Lamar also threw 3 TD's,  completed 64% of his passes, they won the game, and LJ has had moments this season where he has been absolutely unstoppable against and on a 9 game win streak.

 

The Buffalo offense was bad as a whole. Josh has 1 TO and 1 score, completed well under 50% of his passes, been up and down all year, and has had some very good games, but nothing as dominant this year as LJ has had. 

 

When Josh becomes more consistent, the media will be more willing to give him a pass on bad days, until then they will question if days like yesterday are defining moments. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Are we not counting all the sacks Josh gave up? He had 105 net passing yards compared to 139 for Lamar. 

 

Counting runs, Josh had 114 total yards on 41 drop backs for 2.78 yards per play. Lamar had 179 total yards on 36 drop backs for 4.97 yards per play. No narrative, just numbers.

How about context then...nearly 40% of Jackson's yards were YAC on a busted coverage.

Just now, Mango said:

 

You won't hear about it because Lamar also threw 3 TD's,  completed 64% of his passes, they won the game, and LJ has had moments this season where he has been absolutely unstoppable against and on a 9 game win streak.

 

The Buffalo offense was bad as a whole. Josh has 1 TO and 1 score, completed well under 50% of his passes, been up and down all year, and has had some very good games, but nothing as dominant this year as LJ has had. 

 

When Josh becomes more consistent, the media will be more willing to give him a pass on bad days, until then they will question if days like yesterday are defining moments. 

lmao @3tds that is the weakest argument lolol

[blacklabel]

It was a rough day for him, but the line and receiver group didn't help much. I like Dawson Knox, but man, dude has to catch passes that hit him in the hands. He dropped a big one on that 3rd and 8, then he dropped one in the end zone, throw could've been a bit better but it was there. So he misses on those but then he goes and pulls in a one-hander on a perfectly placed ball. Beasely missed a well-thrown ball, Singletary had the one drop. It felt like they were rusty. That was one of my concerns with the 10 day break, it can take teams out of their rhythm and routine. Obviously it's good for the players so they can get extra rest/rehab but sometimes it seems like it's a bit of detriment. However, every team plays at least one Thursday game per season so they have to just work with the schedule change. 

 

It's definitely a bummer to continue to see Josh miss on deep throws, especially when his receiver has a step or two on his man. But, I'm hopeful that Josh will turn it around with that like he did with short/intermediate throws. He struggled with those last season and spent all off-season working on it and showed a ton of improvement this year. I think this off-season he'll do the same with the long ball. He shows a great ability to be coached, to adapt, adjust, etc. I think right now he might be in his head a bit too much, he might be overthinking things. We know his instinct has been, "I must make a play on every play!" so he keeps that in mind when he's out there, don't go slapping on the Superman cape and try to do too much. Also, the path to success is never linear, there are ups and downs and this week he was on the downside, it happens. Despite the rough outing, he still had his team in position to at least tie the game. I'm sure the competitor in him wants to show that he can be/will be the guy that we saw against Dallas. I hope he comes out next week on fire outta the gate and through the whole game.

[KD in CA]

Allen has improved significantly, but he hasn't yet learned how to deal with pressure.  More and more teams will blitz him relentlessly until he learns.  Hopefully that happens in year 3.

[Mango]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

How about context then...nearly 40% of Jackson's yards were YAC on a busted coverage.

lmao @3tds that is the weakest argument lolol

 

I listed a bunch of reasons why LJ  isn't being judged the same way as Josh. You chose just one....And yes throwing 3 TD's against 1 turn over in a win, will garner you less criticism than 1 TD and 1 turn over. 

 

I am unsure if you actually don't understand that or just don't  want to except it. 

[VW82]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

How about context then...nearly 40% of Jackson's yards were YAC on a busted coverage.

 

True. Josh could have had some excellent YAC as well on some coverages we beat but he missed those throws. He was also playing at home whereas Lamar was playing on the road in a difficult environment, and without his top target for the majority of the game.