Don Otreply Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Those that complain a lot will always jump at the first opportunity to do so, because it requires less long term thinking, and is the easier route to take. For a rookie DT it appears EO has filled KW shoes admirably. Go Bills!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hooks Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, syhuang said: Is that where Talley's streak ended? Can Ed own the record with 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I said it on draft night and still say it.... Ed Oliver dropping to #9 shows sometimes NFL personnel people are stupid. No problem at all with Arizona taking Murray at #1 - if you think a guy can be your franchise QB you pick him - but Bosa and Oliver were the best two players in the class and there was a gap to the third best. Everyone from the Jets on got it wrong in my opinion. The Lions took a ***** Tight End. I mean seriously. You can't fix stupid. It goes to show one important thing: One hit wonders in CFB can be dangerous. Ed Oliver was the consensus best player in this draft going into last season - he had a slight down year, but still played very well. Q. Williams came out of nowhere and dominated on a stacked team for one year and everyone decided he was better than Ed. Q might have a good career, but so far Ed is the better player. This is something I'm wondering about w/regard to Burrow... Edited December 2, 2019 by whatdrought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said: Is that where Talley's streak ended? Can Ed own the record with 4? Yes, Talley's streak ended at 3 games in his rookie season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hooks Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 minute ago, syhuang said: Yes, Talley's streak ended at 3 games in his rookie season. That's a good factoid to know for the Ravens game. I can act like a snapple cap and break that out if h e gets a sack. Meh... who am i kidding, i'll probably use it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Survivor Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Oliver has been a menace the past few games. Scary what this kid could become if he's determined to be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Foxx said: right but you don't compare apples and oranges for comparison's sake. I would so do that. It drives the stats geeks crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I think we only need about 13 more "Oliver is playing well despite lack of early stats" threads before we'll get the point. 3 hours ago, Foxx said: right but you don't compare apples and oranges for comparison's sake. There are plenty of comparisons you could make. One is orange, the other typically is not. One is pulpy, the other is firm. One has a thick detachable peel, the other's is thin and fixed. But both are still popular tree fruits. Easy to compare. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I said it on draft night and still say it.... Ed Oliver dropping to #9 shows sometimes NFL personnel people are stupid. No problem at all with Arizona taking Murray at #1 - if you think a guy can be your franchise QB you pick him - but Bosa and Oliver were the best two players in the class and there was a gap to the third best. Everyone from the Jets on got it wrong in my opinion. The Lions took a ***** Tight End. I mean seriously. You can't fix stupid. Wasn’t he viewed as a top 3 guy early in the season? Not sure what happened, if it was disappointing play on the field, or the silly coat stuff, or something else but I never expected him to fall to us. I thought that was a huge break (with a special thank you to Giants and Lions), then people here started questioning if he was a bust a few games into his rookie season. Geez, it can take a little time for the young guys! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 5 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said: I think the Jets needed Kentucky Josh Allen. How is he doing? I have not heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 The plays also weren't designed for him to make the big sacks/stops. His job was to cause the distruption so the other guys like Lawson could make the sack. And he's done it to near perfection all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, DJB said: https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/buffalo-bills-rookie-dt-ed-oliver-is-heating-up Production is a poor way to measure the play of DTs, but the anticipation for Oliver to become an immediate star left room for disappointment. Truth is, rookies at this position do not typically light up the box score in their first eight professional games. Here are some notable NFL star defensive tackles and their production across their first eight games in the league: Aaron Donald: 20 tackles, one sack Fletcher Cox: 16 tackles, one sack Geno Atkins: Five tackles, 1/2 sack Gerald McCoy 14 tackles, zero sacks Ed Oliver 28 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 PDef , 1 FF (12 game totals) Just wanted to point out that the stats above are bogus. Not trying to call you out OP - after all you are only citing thedraftnetwork:) Through 8 games in his rookie season, Aaron Donald had 22 tackles and 3 sacks. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/16716/type/nfl/year/2014 Through 8 games in his rookie season, Fletcher Cox had 24 tackles and 0 sacks. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/14941/type/nfl/year/2014 Through 8 games in his rookie season, Geno Atkins had 12 tackles and 2.5 sacks. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/13311/type/nfl/year/2010 Through 8 games in his rookie season, Gerald McCoy had 21 tackles and 0 sacks. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/13240/type/nfl/year/2010 Through 8 games, Ed Oliver had 23 tackles and 2 sacks. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/4039303/ed-oliver Wrong stats nothwithstanding, Oliver's stats through 8 games are no doubt not that far from Geno Atkins and Aaron Donald and probably better than Fletcher Cox Edited December 2, 2019 by IgotBILLStopay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say When... Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said: Just wanted to point out that the stats above are bogus. Not trying to call you out OP - after all you are only citing thedraftnetwork:) Through 8 games in his rookie season, Aaron Donald had 22 tackles and 3 sacks. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/16716/type/nfl/year/2014 Through 8 games in his rookie season, Fletcher Cox had 24 tackles and 0 sacks. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/14941/type/nfl/year/2014 Through 8 games in his rookie season, Geno Atkins had 12 tackles and 2.5 sacks. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/13311/type/nfl/year/2010 Through 8 games in his rookie season, Gerald McCoy had 21 tackles and 0 sacks. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/13240/type/nfl/year/2010 Through 8 games, Ed Oliver has 23 tackles and 2 sacks. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/4039303/ed-oliver Wrong stats nothwithstanding, Oliver's stats through 8 games are no doubt not that far from Geno Atkins and Aaron Donald and probably better than Fletcher Cox how embarrassing for TDN, the guy that wrote it holds the title "Director of Administration". I wonder if he was looking at 'games started' because Donald didn't start his first 4 and he had 1 sack so that indicates some of the difference... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DonaAa00/gamelog/2014/ regardless, someone should let the original writer know, I don't do Twitter or Facebook or i would. Edited December 2, 2019 by Say When... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) Through 10 played games the stats appear to be Player Tackles Sacks Donald 28 4 Cox 32 1 Atkins 16 3 McCoy 27 3 Oliver 28 5 Oliver is no doubt justifying his lofty pick status In view of the Jets Nation labeling Quinnen Williams a bust, here are his stats through 8 played games 23 Tackles and 1.5 sacks Edited December 2, 2019 by IgotBILLStopay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Stop Billeiving Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 6 hours ago, Just Joshin' said: A shot on Jets today in MMQB that they should have taken Oliver, not Williams. Also this...never forget I bet this dude can’t even stand up on a horse either... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbomb Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 6 hours ago, wppete said: I don’t think anyone is worried about Oliver. There was. People complaining about no sacks, he needs a position change, etc. some fans have no patience with rookies 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla03 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I have no doubt Oliver will thrive in this system. once Harrison comes back they could be the best DT duo in the league. throw in an elite pass rusher and we have a top 3 dline in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 8 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: I wanted to suck bad enough last year for either Bosa or Oliver and I still can't believe we got Oliver at 9. I really thought we wouldn't have a chance in hell I'd still do a lot of sucking for Bosa... extra for both of them. Throw in the Watts and well...? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said: Through 10 played games the stats appear to be Player Tackles Sacks Donald 28 4 Cox 32 1 Atkins 16 3 McCoy 27 3 Oliver 28 5 Oliver is no doubt justifying his lofty pick status In view of the Jets Nation labeling Quinnen Williams a bust, here are his stats through 8 played games 23 Tackles and 1.5 sacks Supposedly they are using him at the nose and cut eating blocks. If that’s true, what a terrible use of a top 5 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 13 hours ago, MJS said: I'm serious about representing data correctly. I have no problems with Oliver. Agree- the best thing to do would have been to show totals through 1-8 and 9-12 for the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZBILLS Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: Supposedly they are using him at the nose and cut eating blocks. If that’s true, what a terrible use of a top 5 pick. Which is why we should get in early and offer a late pick. they'll cut their losses quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, DJB said: https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/buffalo-bills-rookie-dt-ed-oliver-is-heating-up Production is a poor way to measure the play of DTs, but the anticipation for Oliver to become an immediate star left room for disappointment. Truth is, rookies at this position do not typically light up the box score in their first eight professional games. Here are some notable NFL star defensive tackles and their production across their first eight games in the league: Aaron Donald: 20 tackles, one sack Fletcher Cox: 16 tackles, one sack Geno Atkins: Five tackles, 1/2 sack Gerald McCoy 14 tackles, zero sacks Ed Oliver 28 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 PDef , 1 FF (12 game totals) I didn't read the article, but the figures at the end there are way out of whack. After his first eight games in the league, Aaron Donald had three sacks and Oliver had one. Donald had 22 tackles and Oliver 20. Oliver had one pass defended. Donald had an absurd 11 tackles for loss, and Oliver only one. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OlivEd00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DonaAa00/gamelog/2014/ EDIT: I see, you compared Oliver's 12 game figures to Donald's (and Cox's and Atkins' and McCoy's) eight game figures. You know that's not exactly fair to Donald or the others, right? FURTHER EDIT: I see others have already picked up on this. Not that I'm not loving Oliver. He's been effective all year even though not putting up the big numbers early. Edited December 3, 2019 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 If Oliver continues to get better and becomes a huge problem for the Bills opponents OL's................ the sky is the limit for this team the next half decade. But we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 21 hours ago, MJS said: Why are we taking 12 games for Oliver? Just to make his stats look better? How about just the first 8 games? 20 tackles, 1 Sack. Funny how stats are so easy to cherry pick to prove a point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 7 hours ago, OZBILLS said: Which is why we should get in early and offer a late pick. they'll cut their losses quickly. I read some team "who wouldn't take no for an answer" offered them a blockbuster package for Quinnen at trade deadline... Didn't take it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: I didn't read the article, but the figures at the end there are way out of whack. After his first eight games in the league, Aaron Donald had three sacks and Oliver had one. Donald had 22 tackles and Oliver 20. Oliver had one pass defended. Donald had an absurd 11 tackles for loss, and Oliver only one. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OlivEd00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DonaAa00/gamelog/2014/ EDIT: I see, you compared Oliver's 12 game figures to Donald's (and Cox's and Atkins' and McCoy's) eight game figures. You know that's not exactly fair to Donald or the others, right? FURTHER EDIT: I see others have already picked up on this. Not that I'm not loving Oliver. He's been effective all year even though not putting up the big numbers early. This has been pointed out multiple times in this thread. the OP said that it’s not to directly compare who’s been better, rather to show that those great players didn’t do very much to start their career (as there were some fans stating oliver hasn’t done anything) 1 hour ago, CLTbills said: Funny how stats are so easy to cherry pick to prove a point... Funny how some people don’t actually read the threads that they troll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Augie said: Wasn’t he viewed as a top 3 guy early in the season? Not sure what happened, if it was disappointing play on the field, or the silly coat stuff, or something else but I never expected him to fall to us. I thought that was a huge break (with a special thank you to Giants and Lions), then people here started questioning if he was a bust a few games into his rookie season. Geez, it can take a little time for the young guys! He was viewed as a top 1-2 guy. Oliver and Bosa. still can’t believe he fell to us......and that Detroit took a tight end. edit: and that the giants took Danny “Dimes” LMAO!! Fitz 2.0 imo Edited December 3, 2019 by NewEra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, NewEra said: Funny how some people don’t actually read the threads that they troll Funny that I read the thread and actually am not trolling. I actually agree with using the 12-game stat versus the 8-game stat. 12 games is a larger sample size and eliminates some outliers, or at least reduces their impact on the overall statistic. All I'm saying is that in general, people pick the stat that proves their point while conveniently ignoring the stat that doesn't. The OP started the thread on the "first eight games" premise, but never mentioned Oliver's first eight in comparison. He used Oliver's first TWELVE compared to their eight. When you pull the other players' first twelve and compare to Oliver, they are right in line. But the OP was trying to show how Oliver had actually performed better than those players, which isn't the case. Imagine thinking everybody that didn't agree with you 100% is a troll. Edited December 3, 2019 by CLTbills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 27 minutes ago, CLTbills said: Funny that I read the thread and actually am not trolling. I actually agree with using the 12-game stat versus the 8-game stat. 12 games is a larger sample size and eliminates some outliers, or at least reduces their impact on the overall statistic. All I'm saying is that in general, people pick the stat that proves their point while conveniently ignoring the stat that doesn't. The OP started the thread on the "first eight games" premise, but never mentioned Oliver's first eight in comparison. He used Oliver's first TWELVE compared to their eight. When you pull the other players' first twelve and compare to Oliver, they are right in line. But the OP was trying to show how Oliver had actually performed better than those players, which isn't the case. Imagine thinking everybody that didn't agree with you 100% is a troll. Obviously..... he was trying to say that just because Oliver doesn’t have great stats through his first half season doesn’t mean he won’t be great. All of the most recent greats started similarly. Imagine trying to call out every person that makes a point and uses stats to back up their point while ignoring the stats that don’t? It’s a daunting task. Yes, we all realize that people pick the stats that prove their point and conveniently ignore the stats that doesn’t. If that’s your contribution to the thread. the purpose of the thread wasn’t to show that Oliver was better. He was too lazy to compile the stats of his first 8 games. It’s a message board thread, it’s ok to be lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 On 12/2/2019 at 10:36 AM, I'm Spartacus said: Good thing our players are well grounded, and probably don't listen to most of the negative social media comments about them! Same for our staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 I had high hopes for Ed and still do. It may have taken a while for him to get used to a new position in the NFL. He played NT in a 3-4 in college and excelled. He was taking on 2 blockers on most every snap. As he gains experience in his new position, I think he'll develop into a stud. Even so, he has done pretty good for a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 On 12/2/2019 at 8:49 AM, Royale with Cheese said: ' He was already called a bust on here by some. He's figuring it out now. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets to 10 sacks this season. OMG how awesome would that be? Only the foolish ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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