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PFF claims Matt Milano has struggled this year

Big Turk

By Big Turk
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Buffalo_Stampede Hall of Famer

Buffalo_Stampede

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8 hours ago, Tisker A Tasker said:

 

I reference them when when they support my arguments.  Otherwise, I dislike them.

Lol. I find this to be the case with most fans. Truth is they watch everything and give an opinion. They aren't bad but you can't take their grades as facts. They are useful however. I find most of the time their grades are equal to what I see.

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GreggTX Veteran

GreggTX

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Many Bills fans hate PFF because they are honest and unbiased and they actually watch the players closely and measure their performance. They don't measure players by popularity. Bills fans tend to judge the players by their feelings toward them. Hence, Allen and Milano are great when, in fact, neither player is better than average.

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Pine Barrens Mafia Hall of Famer

Pine Barrens Mafia

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7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Lol. I find this to be the case with most fans. Truth is they watch everything and give an opinion. They aren't bad but you can't take their grades as facts. They are useful however. I find most of the time their grades are equal to what I see.

 

Not me. I don't give any credence to any of PFFs made up stats.

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Doc Brown Hall of Famer

Doc Brown

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50 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Many Bills fans hate PFF because they are honest and unbiased and they actually watch the players closely and measure their performance. They don't measure players by popularity. Bills fans tend to judge the players by their feelings toward them. Hence, Allen and Milano are great when, in fact, neither player is better than average.

Fans love PFF when it sheds a positive light on their favorite players.  If it doesn't, disregard it as they don't know what they're talking about.  It's like political polls.

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HOUSE Hall of Famer

HOUSE

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He wasn't ready to start the season, seemed to favor the leg or was worried if it wouldn't hold up. I don't think he was 100% till just a few weeks ago.

Anyone who had a serous injury like Milano's understands the mental part of overcoming a serious injury. Over time you just block it out.

Been there...

 

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Spiderweb

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On 11/18/2019 at 1:16 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He struggled after the hamstring but looked back vs Miami.

To these eyes, Milano played his best and most effectively active game of the season against Miami. Before getting hurt last year he was a play maker and until Miami last Sunday, he's been much quieter. I was very happy to sée him back to making plays.

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Captain_Quint Veteran

Captain_Quint

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As others said, he has been inconsistent so far. A mix of good games, and games where he was swallowed up and the RB goes through clean. Last week he looked really good, so hopefully he continues that. 

 

If he and Edmunds start consistently playing at a high level, the sky is the limit for this defense. 

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Big Turk Hall of Famer

Big Turk

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12 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Oh ok that makes it all legit then...

NFL teams have also admitted to using them but as someone stated up thread its more basic stuff that lessens the burden on their in house staff, not analytic based info which they typically will do themselves and have their own proprietary metrics

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Thurman#1 Hall of Famer

Thurman#1

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On 11/19/2019 at 3:16 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He struggled after the hamstring but looked back vs Miami.

 

 

Yeah, this, I think. He hadn't been the old Milano through a fair part of the year, but he does seem to be playing like his old self now.

On 11/19/2019 at 4:57 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Pretty much, This.

 

 

The data the NFL teams use is not the rankings they provide to the public.  It's more hard data like snap counts for different players in different situations, situational data, stuff like that.

 

 

So, you've talked to the NFL teams about what they use?

 

Come on, you don't know, 'cause neither side says. Why would a team reveal what it uses and doesn't use.

 

Yes, PFF provides a ton of extra stuff to the teams but that they pay them for data shows the teams believe in PFF and their data. Does that mean they believe in all of it and use all of it? Not necessarily, but there's also no particular reason to think they don't. If PFF says Milano is having a bad year, why wouldn't teams want to know why they think so and go take a look at Milano's film more carefully? Wouldn't they want to have the opportunity to think, "Gee, we've generally thought Milano is a fine player ... is there something he's not doing well right now that PFF is picking up that we haven't? Is he, for example, not moving as quickly laterally as he did last year, and can we attack that? Let's go hit the film and see what we turn up." Why wouldn't they want to have a chance to have that kind of conversation?

 

PFF does a damn good job. Not perfect, nobody is. But damn good.

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Thurman#1 Hall of Famer

Thurman#1

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9 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Got proof on that?

 

 

That NFL teams use their data? Or that their data is reliable? Not sure which you meant, so here are some articles addressing both claims. There's lots more out there, but here are a quick few:

 

 

https://www.si.com/2015/01/25/pro-football-focus-nfl-neil-hornsby-cris-collinsworth-analytics

 

Four or five relevant stories at that link

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/06/27/nfl-analytics-what-nfl-teams-use-pff-stats-llc-tendencies-player-tracking-injuries-chip-kelly

 

 

 

" Longtime Bengals offensive line coach Paul Alexander last season reviewed about 600 plays where PFF had downgraded one of his blockers; he told company founder Neil Hornsby that he disagreed with perhaps 12, “which is pretty remarkable,” Alexander said. "

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2017/09/20/__trashed/ 

 

"[from the 2017 Washington Post article just above, Chip] Kelly didn’t confine his critique to those meetings, either. Late last season, when a reporter covering the 49ers suggested that one of San Francisco’s offensive linemen was statistically superior to another, citing PFF data, Kelly let loose.

“I mean, I’ve said it all along: How can they grade an offensive lineman when they don’t know what the play is?” Kelly asked. He went through the standard complaint: An outside analyst can’t know what play was called, or who had what assignment, and thus the grading process is unreliable.

I think there’s a lot of players and coaches that feel the same way,” Kelly said. “You can do whatever you want with it. It’s like me going into a bank and grading a teller because they gave me a lollipop. I gave them a 94.3.”

After the season, though, Kelly did what the company has invited its critics to do: He studied its process. He met some of its analysts — who watch every player on every snap — and watched them make evaluations. And then, according to Collinsworth, he bought a share of the company.

“The coaches that have come in there cannot believe the process and how thorough it is,” Collinsworth said in a phone interview this week. “Is it perfect? I’m sure it’s not perfect. But it’s pretty darn close.”

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

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4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That NFL teams use their data? Or that their data is reliable? Not sure which you meant, so here are some articles addressing both claims. There's lots more out there, but here are a quick few:

 

 

https://www.si.com/2015/01/25/pro-football-focus-nfl-neil-hornsby-cris-collinsworth-analytics

 

Four or five relevant stories at that link

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/06/27/nfl-analytics-what-nfl-teams-use-pff-stats-llc-tendencies-player-tracking-injuries-chip-kelly

 

 

 

" Longtime Bengals offensive line coach Paul Alexander last season reviewed about 600 plays where PFF had downgraded one of his blockers; he told company founder Neil Hornsby that he disagreed with perhaps 12, “which is pretty remarkable,” Alexander said. "

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2017/09/20/__trashed/ 

 

"[from the 2017 Washington Post article just above, Chip] Kelly didn’t confine his critique to those meetings, either. Late last season, when a reporter covering the 49ers suggested that one of San Francisco’s offensive linemen was statistically superior to another, citing PFF data, Kelly let loose.

“I mean, I’ve said it all along: How can they grade an offensive lineman when they don’t know what the play is?” Kelly asked. He went through the standard complaint: An outside analyst can’t know what play was called, or who had what assignment, and thus the grading process is unreliable.

I think there’s a lot of players and coaches that feel the same way,” Kelly said. “You can do whatever you want with it. It’s like me going into a bank and grading a teller because they gave me a lollipop. I gave them a 94.3.”

After the season, though, Kelly did what the company has invited its critics to do: He studied its process. He met some of its analysts — who watch every player on every snap — and watched them make evaluations. And then, according to Collinsworth, he bought a share of the company.

“The coaches that have come in there cannot believe the process and how thorough it is,” Collinsworth said in a phone interview this week. “Is it perfect? I’m sure it’s not perfect. But it’s pretty darn close.”

 

I am with you Thurm. It isn't perfect. There are what I would consider "flaws" and it should never be used as anyone's sole evaluation tool. But it is pretty good and it is a tool worthwhile having in one's toolbox.

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