McDermott Weds Presser: Sullivan asks whether Allen is an improvement over Tyrod

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, FiftyPercent said:

Wow, Jerry's pertinent question got a lot of TBD panties in a wad.

You got that right!  Jerry and Schopp can rev 'em up like no one else.

 

The funny part is that it's so predictable.

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Nextmanup

[Lurker]

24 minutes ago, GG said:

There may be another difference. 

 

You'd have to ask Josh's GF about that...

[GG]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You just dodged the question. I'm asking you simply to confirm what you wrote a couple pages back. 

I'm saying that they are more similar than not after a 20 game career.  

 

Nobody knows whether Allen's career will diverge from Young's from this point forward.  

[Mike in Horseheads]

28 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

You guys told me Jerry was gone so somebody lied here

He came back like Bobby Valentine  with groucho Marx glass's on

[london_bills]

43 minutes ago, Questionable said:

 

I think he's pretty football smart and he's not a dumb individual.  He hasn't by any means mastered reading a defense, he still looks tentative at times in the pocket, like he's unsure.  Other times he does not. That's expected at this point. 

 

My main concern for him is accuracy.  It was the biggest question coming out of college.  Can he deliver the ball accurately to receivers?  When I say accurately, I mean hitting guys in stride with good ball placement for YAC.  At the end of the day that is what racks up yards and leads to big plays.

I can see the accuracy issues. I know he scored high in the wonderlic test. I don't know how football intelligent he is, he seems more of an instinctive Tyrod/ Newton player to me than a manning/Brady type in terms of his football intelligence.. More athletic than cerebral on the field. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by london_bills

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

I thought playing the “LOL STATS” game was stupid. Didn’t you say that two pages ago?

 

i guess when the goal is to defend a mediocre QB whose contemporaries make him look like a failure, anything is fair game as ammunition if it suits your argument.

The method of comparison he used was raw stats (and yes, I think it's a very stupid way of comparing players). Also incorrect, as anyone who watched Young play will be able to confirm.

 

His contemporaries include guys like Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, and Jackson. I'd argue he's outplaying 3/4 of them.

[BringBackOrton]

Here’s a fun game. Let’s look at the first and second 16 starts of some other young QB’s that most of TBD thinks aren’t good enough.

 

Andy Dalton

 

Year 1 3398 yards, 20 TD’s 13 INT

 

Year 2 3639 27 TD 16 INT

 

Ryan Tannehill

 

Year 1 3294 12-13

 

Year 2 3913 24-17

 

Derek Carr 

 

Year 1 3270 21-12

 

Year 2 3987 32-13

 

Will Josh Allen hit those lofty stats of dudes who “suck” by the end of his second year? Or is this another, “the Bills need to demand better QB play, except not like that!!!!!”

 

 

[Success]

What happened to QB development?

 

Josh Allen is going to tear this league up in the years to come.  I’m almost shuddering for the rest of the NFL.  It will be vehement, decisive and legendary.

 

And the no nothings who tried to render a verdict a little over one season in will be shouting “I knew it!  I told everyone!”

 

Watch.  This is what will happen.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

The method of comparison he used was raw stats (and yes, I think it's a very stupid way of comparing players). Also incorrect, as anyone who watched Young play will be able to confirm.

 

His contemporaries include guys like Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, and Jackson. I'd argue he's outplaying 3/4 of them.

Mayfield is a better QB. So is Mahomes, Watson,  Minfield, Goff.

 

Hang your hat on Josh being better than Rosen and Darnold if you wish. I’m sure some Andy Dalton fans were pleased that Andy was better than Brandon Weeden.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Success said:

What happened to QB development?

 

Josh Allen is going to tear this league up in the years to come.  I’m almost shuddering for the rest of the NFL.  It will be vehement, decisive and legendary.

 

And the no nothings who tried to render a verdict a little over one season in will be shouting “I knew it!  I told everyone!”

 

Watch.  This is what will happen.

 

Don't worry, I will hold all of them to account.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

As an overall body of work this season, Allen hasn't been been very good.  I really don't think it can be debated...

 

True.  

However, you should also say and include:  

 

As an overall body of work this season, Allen hasn’t been very bad.   I really don’t think it can be debated...
 

Some people need to be reminded of that as some are delusional and over the top on the negative too.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

Mayfield is a better QB. So is Mahomes, Watson,  Minfield, Goff.

 

Hang your hat on Josh being better than Rosen and Darnold if you wish. I’m sure some Andy Dalton fans were pleased that Andy was better than Brandon Weeden.

Mahomes and Watson are two of the top QBs in the league, so yeah...I would think they're better than Allen.

 

Mayfield and Goff are eminently debatable. LOL @ Minshew

[Questionable]

2 minutes ago, london_bills said:

I can see the accuracy issues. I know he scored high in the wonderlic test. I don't know how football intelligent he is, he seems more of an instinctive Tyrod/ Newton player to me than a manning/Brady type in terms of his football intelligence.. Ore athletic than cerebral on the field. 

 

Well I can only go off of what I've heard him say in pressers after games.  When asked about specific passes during the games, he always seems to recall them, what coverage the defense was in, what they were trying to do defensively, and that he just wasn't able to connect on the pass play. 

 

I also remember reading or seeing somewhere during the draft process they called him on the phone and quizzed him about coverage's they had gone over the prior week or two before during his visit.  He remembered them all.

 

I've have to believe OBD believed Allen had all the mental aspects the were looking for as well as the physical tools, but accuracy was his biggest weakness.  I really think that they believed they could work on mechanics and technique to make him a more accurate passer, knowing he had everything else.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Mahomes and Watson are two of the top QBs in the league, so yeah...I would think they're better than Allen.

 

Mayfield and Goff are eminently debatable. LOL @ Minshew

Yeah Mahomes and Watson were drafted only a year before Allen, so yeah, they are his contemporaries. Even better, Watson was still “technically a rookie” when Allen was in his rookie year.

 

Goff is debateable? Absurdity. Goff benefits from better coaching but he is ABSOLUTELY a better QB than Allen today. It’s not even close. 

[MJS]

27 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

So what? You know that a journalists job is not to lob softballs in pressers, right?

 

They can throw hard balls, but the questions should not be dumb. What does Tyrod Taylor have to do with Josh Allen? There's plenty of ammunition to attack Allen with.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

Yeah Mahomes and Watson were drafted only a year before Allen, so yeah, they are his contemporaries. Even better, Watson was still “technically a rookie” when Allen was in his rookie year.

 

Goff is debateable? Absurdity. Goff benefits from better coaching but he is ABSOLUTELY a better QB than Allen today. It’s not even close. 

All those guys have more experience, Goff included. NFL learning curve is steep at QB. Watson and Mahomes have some of the cushiest offenses in the league. Why would you expect Allen to be at their level right now? That's an absurd expectation.

 

...which is why I refer you to his draft class, where he's outperforming all of them except Jackson (debatably). 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

36 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Oh really?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cTNqwZ5gkY

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzrwEpKYHWk

 

I'm still waiting for Josh to throw one pass like any of these.

 

Or this for that matter:

 

 

 

I don't think I was clear what I meant. I did not mean being bad at the deep ball was a Tyrod trait. What I meant was being reasonably accurate when he did actually get to throwing it was a Tyrod trait. The problem was getting him to stay in the pocket and throw it on time. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

13 minutes ago, Success said:

What happened to QB development?

 

Josh Allen is going to tear this league up in the years to come.  I’m almost shuddering for the rest of the NFL.  It will be vehement, decisive and legendary.

 

And the no nothings who tried to render a verdict a little over one season in will be shouting “I knew it!  I told everyone!”

 

Watch.  This is what will happen.

 

That went out the window for me the day they announced Peterman as the opening day starter last season. You’re gonna trust the same guys who did that to develop a raw project QB? It’s laughable. 

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

All those guys have more experience, Goff included. NFL learning curve is steep at QB. Watson and Mahomes have some of the cushiest offenses in the league. Why would you expect Allen to be at their level right now? That's an absurd expectation.

 

...which is why I refer you to his draft class, where he's outperforming all of them except Jackson (debatably). 

 

 

Watson was electric ON DAY ONE. Did you watch him play? Why was Minshew able to be so productive with zero NFL experience when Allen had a year on him? 

 

The excuses continue to tumble tumble tumble. Other rookie QB’s were infinitely better than Josh as a rookie, but “the learning curve in the NFL is steep!” 

 

I don’t expect Allen to be as good as Deshaun Watson as a rookie, because Watson is just a flat out much better player. That’s the problem.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 minute ago, Chemical said:

 

That went out the window for me the day they announced Peterman as the opening day starter last season. You’re gonna trust the same guys who did that to develop a raw project QB? It’s laughable. 

You give people one short leash, make an error and they're outside the circle of trust Mr. Deniro.

[BringBackOrton]

14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

True.  

However, you should also say and include:  

 

As an overall body of work this season, Allen hasn’t been very bad.   I really don’t think it can be debated...
 

Some people need to be reminded of that as some are delusional and over the top on the negative too.

Andy Dalton hasn’t been very bad his whole career. Neither has Ryan Tannehill. Excellent news.

[GoBills808]

Last week I was telling people to calm down after they started saying we were challenging for the division when the Pats lost, this week debating why Josh Allen isn't Vince Young fml 

[HappyDays]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

Andy Dalton hasn’t been very bad his whole career. Neither has Ryan Tannehill. Excellent news.

 

But Dalton and Tannehill didn't improve. Allen has. Maybe he won't continue to improve. I'm not sure why anyone would presume to know either way. If you look at his short career 4 games at a time you will see consistent improvement at every step. The only time I've been really nervous is after the Pats game because it was a total regression on everything he'd learned but that turned out to be an outlier.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Entire McDermott Presser

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/sean-mcdermott-learn-through-experiences

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

But Dalton and Tannehill didn't improve. Allen has. Maybe he won't continue to improve. I'm not sure why anyone would presume to know either way. If you look at his short career 4 games at a time you will see consistent improvement at every step. The only time I've been really nervous is after the Pats game because it was a total regression on everything he'd learned but that turned out to be an outlier.

Oh they absolutely did. I posted the stats up thread. Dalton and Tanny both made strides between years 1-3

[Xwnyer]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Sullivan is a jackass

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Oh they absolutely did. I posted the stats up thread. Dalton and Tanny both made strides between years 1-3

 

Yes, and then they plateaued or regressed. Allen might just keep improving. So I don't know what the discussion is about at this point. No one knows anything about how he'll end up. Until he stops improving he isn't going anywhere.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yes, and then they plateaued or regressed. Allen might just keep improving. So I don't know what the discussion is about at this point. No one knows anything about how he'll end up. Until he stops improving he isn't going anywhere.

In the last decade, what QB improved drastically from who they were in year two to present?

[london_bills]

4 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

In the last decade, what QB improved drastically from who they were in year two to present?

Yep.

 

who suddenly GOT IT and erased their deficiencies? 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

In the last decade, what QB improved drastically from who they were in year two to present?

 

Ben rothlisberger. Drew Brees.

[notwoz]

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Ben rothlisberger. Drew Brees.

Stats please? 

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Ben rothlisberger. Drew Brees.

That was 15 years ago hombre. The NFL has changed just a bit since 2004.

[Jerry Jabber]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Entire McDermott Presser

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/sean-mcdermott-learn-through-experiences

 

 

I’d like to know who the reporter was at the 7:55 mark. He was very vague with his questions and you could tell McDermott was getting frustrated with him as he started giving the reporter short answers, then cut the conference short.

[notwoz]

I rarely side with Sully, but I think this is a legitimate question. Either Allen is an improvement, or he's not. Asking the coach what makes him an improvement is not an unfair question.

 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Ben rothlisberger. Drew Brees.

Prescott

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

That was 15 years ago hombre. The NFL has changed just a bit since 2004.

 

What rule changes in the NFL have eliminated the ability to improve? This doesn't make any sense. And honestly Allen is a rare case. I'm not just saying that because he's on the Bills. Before we drafted him I thought whatever team took him would need to sit him for 2 years based on his history at the position. I wouldn't bet on him becoming a top 10 QB but if he keeps trending up I'm not looking elsewhere. Might as well enjoy the ride.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

I've seen goose schitt that is more dignified than almost all media journalism, so that's not saying much.

 

Jerry Sullivan's job should be to fill John Wawrow's empty scotch tumbler. Period. And Tim Graham should be in charge of ice.

 

Graham has done a number of good feature pieces when he was at TBN and some good articles at the Athletic.  JMO of course.

[gobills1212]

Something we havent seen much this year are roll outs on broken plays w/a wr wide open downfield to be hit so he can be off to the races. I feel like that happened relatively often w/tyrod. Just busted or abandoned coverages w the wr just following the qb downfield.  

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, notwoz said:

but I think this is a legitimate question

 

A legitimate question would be to ask McDermott why the offense hasn't improved after 2 years. Asking McDermott about a specific cherry picked stat for a rookie vs a veteran is not legitimate. It is basically just trolling.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, gobills1212 said:

Something we havent seen much this year are roll outs on broken plays w/a wr wide open downfield to be hit so he can be off to the races. I feel like that happened relatively often w/tyrod. Just busted or abandoned coverages w the wr just following the qb downfield.  

I know you're referencing broken plays, but TBH that was play design differences between Roman & Daboll.