USABuffaloFan Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Definitely not and I'm not comparing them at all Stats show the deep ball is Fickle and inconsistent Without the long ball Reich does not lead Buffalo back against Houston and into a Superbowl eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Just now, USABuffaloFan said: Without the long ball Reich does not lead Buffalo back against Houston and into a Superbowl eventually. Everybody digs the long ball. But it is certainly something that can be worked on and improved a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, flmike said: Here's a question. What QB developed something he didn't have in college, in the NFL? Tom Brady, best ever! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 56 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said: You don't see dime defenses till you do. Agreed. And then that opens your run game. The Patriots offense with two TEs and two WR that can line up anywhere is the way to go. A TE that can get deep on a LB or a RB that can split wide. You win with your 11 best players on the field, not a FB and your fifth WR. Plenty of ways to spread them out and throw deep. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mango said: I have been as critical of Allen as anybody but that won’t nor should it happen. He’s the guy for the season and should be the guy heading into next season. I do think we should see what Andy Daltons cost is next year. If we can do 2 years at 10-12 per, I pull the trigger and Allen gets 4-6 games to show he’s the guy in 2020. If we get 6 games of this production next year, I pull the plug and save the season. Dalton finishes the year and is around as a vet presence for the next draft pick. McBeane has done some things well and somethings poorly. I don’t want to start over AGAIN. But they need to have an immediate back up plan for 2020. They can’t do this again for a 4th year, then be a square one at QB in year 5, and expect to keep their jobs. Their jobs are dependent on either getting very good production out of Allen or having a replacement plan ready and waiting. River and Burr, LOL! 6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-19-deep-ball-project You can also look at NFL.com last years stats. He has 5 completions of 40+ Doesn't include run after the catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 1 minute ago, USABuffaloFan said: River and Burr, LOL! huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Everybody digs the long ball. But it is certainly something that can be worked on and improved a lot Frank Reich did not work on his long ball in the game. that is when you need it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, USABuffaloFan said: Frank Reich did not work on his long ball in the game. that is when you need it! Frank Reich was a Great backup who got to work on every part of his game every day, including deep ball Edited November 11, 2019 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Agreed. And then that opens your run game. The Patriots offense with two TEs and two WR that can line up anywhere is the way to go. A TE that can get deep on a LB or a RB that can split wide. You win with your 11 best players on the field, not a FB and your fifth WR. Plenty of ways to spread them out and throw deep. Just keep Lee off the filed please! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said: Doesn't include run after the catch. Welp its the best I can find. Im not rewatching all the games to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Mango said: huh? Rivers, San Diego and Burr LSU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalobillswin Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 No matter how bad he is people on this board will make every excuse for him. The receivers can’t get separation, it’s the Line, it’s Daboll, it’s Mcd, etc. this is a bad qb who we need to move on from. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 that long ball stat is atrocious. Just watch Russell Wilson tonight. If he throws a bomb it will be high arcing trajectory. He often gives his guys a nice chance to adjust and run underneath the pass. Josh throws more line drives and there’s no margin for error. He just heaves it with no Plan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Q: can you be playing “mistake-free” when you cough up the ball but your lineman bails you out? Did Feliciano prevent the mistake or just the bad consequences of the mistake??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, buffalobillswin said: No matter how bad he is people on this board will make every excuse for him. The receivers can’t get separation, it’s the Line, it’s Daboll, it’s Mcd, etc. this is a bad qb who we need to move on from. Bad is taking it too far, that is EJ Manual or Losman bad. Both could throw long. Josh's problem is he ONLY Gun Slings, even throwing short. Guys drop balls in their hands. Josh has a winning record this year and I believe overall. My only problem with Josh is he is 6-3 now and not ready to be 11-5 or 12-4. More like 9-7 or 10-6 if lucky. 3 minutes ago, zow2 said: that long ball stat is atrocious. Just watch Russell Wilson tonight. If he throws a bomb it will be high arcing trajectory. He often gives his guys a nice chance to adjust and run underneath the pass. Josh throws more line drives and there’s no margin for error. He just heaves it with no Plan. 3 minutes ago, zow2 said: that long ball stat is atrocious. Just watch Russell Wilson tonight. If he throws a bomb it will be high arcing trajectory. He often gives his guys a nice chance to adjust and run underneath the pass. Josh throws more line drives and there’s no margin for error. He just heaves it with no Plan. Glad some people get it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said: Just keep Lee off the filed please! Has he not been cut yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Binghamton Beast said: If the coaches were truly brain washing him he’d have a lot better ball security when running. The fact of the matter is Josh Allen is a inaccurate thrower. No more needs to be said. To blame it on the coaching staff is freaking ridiculous. LMAO. He’s improved his accuracy from last year, he’s cut down his interceptions the past few games. Doesn’t matter what he does on the field, the minute he starts cleaning up one thing you’ll move onto the next. You already got your mind made up on him, it ain’t changing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregPersons Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 6 hours ago, Mark80 said: I honestly wonder if it is all his fault. Some receivers seem to be letting up and then the ball sails over them. I wonder if they are just not used to seeing that kind of throw and are not tracking it well. Now, obviously I am not an NFL receiver, but I have had the opportunity to (try) and catch a ball from someone with an absolute rocket of an arm. Like, ability to throw it over 60 yards kind of rocket. It was extremely difficult to track when it was a long pass. It just kept going and going and going. Now, imagine it was from one of the best arms in the NFL. Not even these receivers are used to seeing throws like this. I seriously wonder if his arm is too big sometimes and making it difficult on the WRs and TEs too (like Knox's drop yesterday right through his hands). If we could just hit 33-50% of those open deep balls then no one would be complaining about our offensive performances. They are the difference IMO. Obviously, some throws are also just completely over thrown, but that not be the whole story. Josh Allen, what would you say is your greatest weakness? "Well, I guess my arm is ...TOO powerful" It's like having a hog that's way too big — sure, it looks good on camera, but not all women are gonna enjoy a bruised cervix. Josh's gotta learn to throw with just the tip... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: Q: can you be playing “mistake-free” when you cough up the ball but your lineman bails you out? Did Feliciano prevent the mistake or just the bad consequences of the mistake??? If that was one of our defenders swatting that ball out, would you consider it a great play by the defender or just bad handling by the QB. Allen has had his problems holding onto the ball, but in my opinion that was a great play by the defender. He hit that ball square on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 17 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said: Bad is taking it too far, that is EJ Manual or Losman bad. Both could throw long. Josh's problem is he ONLY Gun Slings, even throwing short. Guys drop balls in their hands. Josh has a winning record this year and I believe overall. My only problem with Josh is he is 6-3 now and not ready to be 11-5 or 12-4. More like 9-7 or 10-6 if lucky. What makes you think Allen is better than Manuel or Losman? Suck is suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 EJ took the field down the field, like a boss, at Carolina for a two minute TD drive win still waiting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpschwartz Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 I think we should run a lot more slants and crossing routes. Those have higher percentage and allow yards after catch. Practice deep ball full speed vs Tre and throw it once you are able to do it fine, right now it is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: What makes you think Allen is better than Manuel or Losman? Suck is suck. Wayne: I say this with affection - posting on a sports message board will not cure depression. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, row_33 said: EJ took the field down the field, like a boss, at Carolina for a two minute TD drive win still waiting.... You're right. Josh doesn't have any 4th qtr comebacks/game winning drives. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock'em Sock'em Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 2 hours ago, USABuffaloFan said: are your ready not to be in the playoffs if Josh is your only choice No post-season is a real possibility regardless of whether we complete deep passes or whomever plays QB. But one or two deep completions per game will go a long way. Though Josh has shown growth, the more difficult half of the season started Sunday - so here's hoping they find some way to score more points. It was fairly impressive to get the go-ahead TD with a couple minutes left. And then they drove into FG range in the last minute. It's been a long while since we've had an offense capable to doing that so consistently. It's what good teams do. Find a way to bottle that up and do it the first three quarters as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 55 minutes ago, flmike said: Here's a question. What QB developed something he didn't have in college, in the NFL? Is this a serious question? I think a better question would be what QB didn’t develop something he didn’t have in college. Even if a QB comes in with perfect mechanics and other physical traits (and most don’t) they still have to develop the mental acuity required for the job. College QBs just aren’t learning to read defenses in college like they need to in the pros. Mainly because defensive coordinators at the college level simply aren’t presenting the sheer variety in coverage schemes to study. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 hours ago, USABuffaloFan said: Josh's upside is huge if this is done right. He is not playing that much better than Taylor at this point of his career. Actually he's not playing anywhere near as good. He's not even in the same ballpark. Watch this video. Hotrod made more good long throws in one half than Josh has in 20 starts. Had Josh been able to hit just one pass like this Sunday we win. Yeah I know Culture of Tyrod. Whatever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzrwEpKYHWk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 According to this guy's research he was :accurate" on 6 of 21 over 31 yards last season. This gives you a good look at all QBs and the average looks to be around 38-40%. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-19-deep-ball-project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 26 minutes ago, row_33 said: EJ took the field down the field, like a boss, at Carolina for a two minute TD drive win still waiting.... What was EJ Manuel's record as a starter? 12 minutes ago, Rock'em Sock'em said: No post-season is a real possibility regardless of whether we complete deep passes or whomever plays QB. But one or two deep completions per game will go a long way. Though Josh has shown growth, the more difficult half of the season started Sunday - so here's hoping they find some way to score more points. It was fairly impressive to get the go-ahead TD with a couple minutes left. And then they drove into FG range in the last minute. It's been a long while since we've had an offense capable to doing that so consistently. It's what good teams do. Find a way to bottle that up and do it the first three quarters as well. New England beat us but was outplayed. Good team beat inferior opponents, even sometimes when outplayed! 10 minutes ago, K-9 said: Is this a serious question? I think a better question would be what QB didn’t develop something he didn’t have in college. Even if a QB comes in with perfect mechanics and other physical traits (and most don’t) they still have to develop the mental acuity required for the job. College QBs just aren’t learning to read defenses in college like they need to in the pros. Mainly because defensive coordinators at the college level simply aren’t presenting the sheer variety in coverage schemes to study. Tom Brady was not a good QB in college, drafted 6th round. Normally you would never become a starter in the NFL from the 6th round yet alone the best of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 39 minutes ago, BananaB said: If that was one of our defenders swatting that ball out, would you consider it a great play by the defender or just bad handling by the QB. Allen has had his problems holding onto the ball, but in my opinion that was a great play by the defender. He hit that ball square on the money. Little from column A, little from column B. Allen’s horrid history of fumbling would probably cause me to lean a little bit more toward “A”, or Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: According to this guy's research he was :accurate" on 6 of 21 over 31 yards last season. This gives you a good look at all QBs and the average looks to be around 38-40%. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-19-deep-ball-project Josh's average was 26%, 20% below. Also they considered 21 yards to be a Long ball. Any way you look at this Josh was not a good long ball thrower. Add to that, not complaining about last year, he played what 9-10 games. this year with 9 games he has no in the air passes over 30 yards. He has a 54 yarder ran after the catch by Knox. Give the guy credit for his 6-3 record and 7 4th quarter comebacks, 5 this year. Won't be good enough second half of the season with a tougher schedule. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da webster guy Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 9 hours ago, Hebert19 said: A little more air under the ball and he completes a couple again yesterday. He just has to stop throwing them on a rope. Yes I think it's a combo of this and that Daboll and McD act like it's the end of the world of your QB throws a pick. If we're at mid field and Josh throws a deep pick, it's a punt. These guys are so tight and so conservative it seems like all they care about is squeaking out the win and not developing an offensive machine. Maybe they're coaching for their jobs and the W is all that matters, but to me I want to see our qb and offense get better, that's more important this season. There has to be some middle ground between scoring 15 points a week and hoping to win close, and playing balls out on offense and putting out a fun product for your fans. Not saying we're a boring team, but there's room to push it a little more and stop just trying not to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigotz Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) Thinking about John Brown and Cole Beasley trying to out-muscle a defender is probably making Josh a bit nervous as well. We really needed/need a WR1. I’m shocked we didn’t add one via trade... asking price on AJ Green and others must have been stupid high. Edited November 12, 2019 by Rigotz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 8 hours ago, Lurker said: I'd like to see them just forget about the deep ball. I know you have to "keep the D honest." But really, in today's NFL, who really relys on the deep ball anymore? That's old school football. Most high powered offenses today rely on short and intermediate throws and RUN AFTER THE CATCH. That's the thing Buffalo can't seem to do with any frequency. Singletary's 49-yard play against the Skins is the prototypical long ball in today's NFL: https://www.buffalobills.com/video/highlight-devin-singletary-s-49-yard-catch-and-run I think part of the problem is that there is not a lot of run after catch...... I defend Allen.....but he does seem to be a hair slow on his throws right now....he makes up for that by throwing lazers.....which also causes drops...... But I think he can improve here.....as a matter of fact I am counting on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said: Josh's average was 26%, 20% below. Also they considered 21 yards to be a Long ball. Any way you look at this Josh was not a good long ball thrower. Add to that, not complaining about last year, he played what 9-10 games. this year with 9 games he has no in the air passes over 30 yards. He has a 54 yarder ran after the catch by Knox. Give the guy credit for his 6-3 record and 7 4th quarter comebacks, 5 this year. Won't be good enough second half of the season with a tougher schedule. There is one table that breaks down 31+ yards. Check it out and then let me know where I said I was satisfied with Allen's deep ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Cripple Creek said: There is one table that breaks down 31+ yards. Check it out and then let me know where I said I was satisfied with Allen's deep ball. You gave the table, I gave my feedback for allot of quotes on this thread. I said Josh was 3 of 36 fro over 30 yards in air, less than 10%. Just clarifying that table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 33 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: Actually he's not playing anywhere near as good. He's not even in the same ballpark. Watch this video. Hotrod made more good long throws in one half than Josh has in 20 starts. Had Josh been able to hit just one pass like this Sunday we win. Yeah I know Culture of Tyrod. Whatever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzrwEpKYHWk Allen is not hitting those deeper balls like Tyrod here you are right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 9 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said: Sorry if someone already made this point, but I'm at work and didn't have time to read through every post. Josh Allen is playing mistake free the last few games (bravo), but it's also severely hindering him. The clear reason for not being able to connect on a deep ball, is his fear of throwing an interception. As a result, the ball always ends up in no man's land. Not only can it not be picked, but also has no chance of our guys coming down with it. I mean, he hasn't even been close. It's grossly overthrown every-time. I've felt this way for weeks, but he just confirmed it in his post game presser. They asked him if he can pin-point the reason, for not being able to hit the deep ball, and he just said, I don't know, followed by.......I don't know if I'm super anxious about under-throwing it, and getting an interception. The coaches have him playing scared. This is a major detriment to his development. News flash.....we are not winning the Super Bowl this year, but we have this special talent, that we need to develop. Peyton threw 33 picks his rookie year. I'm sick of this ultra conservative approach. The only we we are beating the better teams in this league, is if Josh plays up to his potential, and that's not happening with the leash that they have on him. Let him go, and win or lose, live with the results. We'll be better in the long run for it. Maybe part of the issue is they are winning. When you are losing, all you have is getting jazzed about big plays and seeing potential/future. They came out winning safe and dont want to screw it up. Funny how we cant have it both ways, but that doesnt stop 30% of this board from trying. People just want Allen to be the inept combo of Manuel/JP sssooooo bad its ruining what should be a fun season (not to mention most convos on this board) for them bc he isnt Mahomes. Nevermind how terrible most of the qb play is, he isnt top 5 now and thats apparently just not acceptable. BB facebook groups became unreadable.... its leaked over to here now. People used to blame BB.com shutting the boards, which wasnt fair bc most imports were excellent posters. Sadly, a few cool cats ruined it and gave em a bad name. Weve long since passed it but the hysterics never got toned back down lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Also, to the OP’s point, I am not sure the issue is he’s getting beat over the head with “YOU CAN NEVER THROW A PICK!” 1st half yesterday Allen made a perfect, and I mean perfect 15 yard pass to Beasley over the middle into the one of the tightest windows you’ll ever see. That ball, if even half a foot off either way, gets tipped or picked. Point is, Allen seems to have no hesitation throwing into coverage, even tight or double coverage. Yet he can’t seem to put a deep ball anywhere close enough to a wide open receiver to even let the guy make an attempt on the ball. Maybe, just maybe, he’s just bad at it and coaches’ mindgames are all in your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, london_bills said: Allen is not hitting those deeper balls like Tyrod here you are right. https://www.buffalobills.com/video/can-t-miss-play-allen-floats-deep-ball-to-foster-for-huge-td Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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