Mojo44 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 The Bills are 5-2 and you’re talking about “failure”? ............way too much anxious ruminating on this board. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conlan58 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said: and what if we don’t really see a “statement game”, but win 11 games And a Playoff Game? You won’t be satisfied? Then you’re welcome to jump off the bandwagon. Can you at least use a shoehorn if you are going to shove words in my mouth like that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket94 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I was concerned with the run defense again. It definately needs attention before we have a repeat of the recent past. The Eagles are a good team, and they were able to exploit a few weaknesses. It is good to find these things out now so they can be corrected. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socal-805 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 11 hours ago, Rc2catch said: I think the game plan since preseason has been the failure here. They are attempting to morph into a deadly passing team and sadly for all of us Allen is not ready. I thought based on free agency and the draft this was going to be a power run season where the offensive line gets to maul opponents with pure power and we mix in a little play action, deep shots and Allen runs. Instead we’re chucking the ball all over the field, which is awesome but it’s not working. Time to slow the game down on offense, stop making silly penalties, control the clock, play smart football and let the defense stay fresh. Just my 2cents THIS is exactly correct IMO also: Buffalo is a poor passing team that INSISTS on throwing the ball anyway. https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/situational-run-pass-ratios--off-.html Here's your analytics Buffalo! Bills have an extremely high success rate running the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Our consistent weakness throughout the season has been our passing game. We invested heavily in receivers and linemen and retooled at running back, and the results haven't been what they need to be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: Our consistent weakness throughout the season has been our passing game. We invested heavily in receivers and linemen and retooled at running back, and the results haven't been what they need to be. Maybe we should go get Winston, the guy you would have traded an entire draft for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Just now, oldmanfan said: Maybe we should go get Winston, the guy you would have traded an entire draft for. Thanks for continuing to contribute nothing to the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socal-805 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I hate to break up the love-fest here, but what do EITHER of you guys think about running the ball more? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Socal-805 said: I hate to break up the love-fest here, but what do EITHER of you guys think about running the ball more? We should be running the ball as much as San Francisco, and mostly throwing the ball off play action. Singletary should be getting 18-20 touches a game, with Gore sprinkled in for 12-15 touches and Allen running 3-5 times. That should limit Allen to around 30 passes a week, which I think would make the offense better overall. Edited October 31, 2019 by jrober38 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, SoTier said: Whoopty-doo. The Bills run game is good against bottom feeders, but it's not all that good against respectable, middle of the pack teams like the Eagles, and lousy against serious defenses. The Bills didn't lose by a FG to a great team. They got drubbed and exposed by a decent Eagles team, not a Super Bowl contending Eagles team, losing by 18 points. Gore had 17 carries for 109 yards against the Pats.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 25 minutes ago, Socal-805 said: THIS is exactly correct IMO also: Buffalo is a poor passing team that INSISTS on throwing the ball anyway. https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/situational-run-pass-ratios--off-.html Here's your analytics Buffalo! Bills have an extremely high success rate running the ball. I can't help but get the feeling that for the coaching staff, this is about figuring out if he can be an NFL QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Mojo44 said: The Bills are 5-2 and you’re talking about “failure”? ............way too much anxious ruminating on this board. ? 5-2 yes but who have they beat? Possibly their best game was a loss. This defense is overrated and I've said that all along not just after this past game. Offensively they're average at best. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: and what if we don’t really see a “statement game”, but win 11 games And a Playoff Game? You won’t be satisfied? Then you’re welcome to jump off the bandwagon. I would say winning a playoff game counts as a statement win. There’s no viable manner in which someone could argue a playoff win on the road doesn’t fit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In Summary Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Unlikely to see the degree of turnover the OP suggests. Next season, there will inevitably be players playing in positions that will frustrate fans. We'll talk about getting two new tackles but will end up getting one that is better and hope that is enough to stabilize the line. We'll want Ford out of the RT position but they'll either see progression or move him to guard and we'll hope they are correct. No way you blow up the roster at this point. It's continual incremental improvement at this point. Add an impactful RT, WR, and DE and you've got a substantially better team IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 What’s gone wrong? Very little. They’re ahead of schedule in their rebuild and playing with house money the rest of this year. To quote Aaron Rogers....RELAX 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 This thread is as good as any to ask the question 'Did I miss a memo, when did a 'statement win' become a thing"? I'm looking forward to any type of win Sunday to go 6-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socal-805 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 19 minutes ago, jrober38 said: We should be running the ball as much as San Francisco, and mostly throwing the ball off play action. Singletary should be getting 18-20 touches a game, with Gore sprinkled in for 12-15 touches and Allen running 3-5 times. That should limit Allen to around 30 passes a week, which I think would make the offense better overall. I think you're right: Memo Dabol plz. I would like to see more like 25 attempts from Allen. They are going to HAVE to take this approach if they want to be beat Dallas or Baltimore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etsh Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) I agree with points 3, 5 and maybe 7, but it drives me crazy when people use analysis calling for a Julio Jones "type" or a CJ Moseley "type" as if these people aren't singular world class athletes but are made in a mold somewhere. Edited October 31, 2019 by Etsh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 OFFENSE ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 46 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Thanks for continuing to contribute nothing to the conversation. 47 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Thanks for continuing to contribute nothing to the conversation. I did above. But you continue to keep trying to come off as an expert when your Winston stance argues otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBlue Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Rocket94 said: I was concerned with the run defense again. It definately needs attention before we have a repeat of the recent past. The Eagles are a good team, and they were able to exploit a few weaknesses. It is good to find these things out now so they can be corrected. Exactly what I'm trying to say in my op I don't think the sky is falling and we're right on track but these are the things I see that need tweaks/changes to put this team over the top. Heck we do what I listed and I think we can beat the best in the league, again I'm leaving looking to be an elite unit that can dominate weak opposition and get into a shoot out if need be with elite company. That's what it takes these days, this is what is needed to take this division next season and for years to come. Let's have another dynasty it's about time we did. 44 minutes ago, Socal-805 said: I hate to break up the love-fest here, but what do EITHER of you guys think about running the ball more? Yes please like I said singletary needs a shot as a 3 down back for the bulk of the game and we need a flat pass/screen game with him to help free up everything else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 21 minutes ago, Socal-805 said: I think you're right: Memo Dabol plz. I would like to see more like 25 attempts from Allen. They are going to HAVE to take this approach if they want to be beat Dallas or Baltimore. Agreed. In both games they'll need to slow the game down, limit possessions and try to win the turnover battle. In other words, we'll need pretty much everything to go right to win either game. Ultimately I view this as an indictment for where our QB is in his development. We're well into year two and we're still running an offense with training wheels because he can't be fully trusted to take care of the ball. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket94 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, BillsBlue said: Exactly what I'm trying to say in my op I don't think the sky is falling and we're right on track but these are the things I see that need tweaks/changes to put this team over the top. Heck we do what I listed and I think we can beat the best in the league, again I'm leaving looking to be an elite unit that can dominate weak opposition and get into a shoot out if need be with elite company. That's what it takes these days, this is what is needed to take this division next season and for years to come. Let's have another dynasty it's about time we did. I know the Bills are in year 3 of a rebuild and other teams have done it sooner, but what does that have to do with the Bills. The Bills are on the right track, and the 2020 draft and FA will allow them to add more talented players to carry out the defensive schemes. Of course this offense and Josh Allen need to improve as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBlue Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 31 minutes ago, In Summary said: Unlikely to see the degree of turnover the OP suggests. Next season, there will inevitably be players playing in positions that will frustrate fans. We'll talk about getting two new tackles but will end up getting one that is better and hope that is enough to stabilize the line. We'll want Ford out of the RT position but they'll either see progression or move him to guard and we'll hope they are correct. No way you blow up the roster at this point. It's continual incremental improvement at this point. Add an impactful RT, WR, and DE and you've got a substantially better team IMO. This is what I see for next year as well and it seems realistic. I was just stating what I see that needs to happen be it in 1 or 2 seasons from now to make us a perrenial playoff team in general. I hope I'm wrong about Edmunds and he gets better at being in the right place at the right time and same goes for Ford. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thurst44 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 12 hours ago, Pokebball said: If the line was even average, we'd be able to run the ball. We're 8th in the league in rushing with a 36-year-old featured back and our draft pick out most of the year. Let's get some perspective here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 21 minutes ago, thurst44 said: We're 8th in the league in rushing with a 36-year-old featured back and our draft pick out most of the year. Let's get some perspective here. You remove Allen's rushing yards things don't look so bright remains my point. Most of his yards come from his decision to scramble after the pocket collapses. Please don't lose that perspective. Take this most recent game, for example. Josh rushed for 45; Gore for 34 and Singletary for 19. For the season, the Bills are averaging 130/game. Josh is responsible for 34 of that. The Bill's are under 100yds per game from our RBs Not good. And that's on the O line. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakrider Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Bills just haven't clicked on offense this year at all imo. The offense has had some great quarters of football but not any great games. This team makes to many mistakes in each and every game from penalties and guys out of position to O-line issues and receivers dropping passes. And it seems Allen is only working the short passing game 95% of time. Also on 3rd and 1 or 2, to many times not getting a first down. I don't see many great plays offensively by this team, seems like about 2 each game. I watch some NFL games that have 2-3 great plays on 1 drive. I would like to see Foster in there, more passes to Singletary out of backfield, more slants to Beasley and more 20-30 stikes to Brown. No excuse for a team to go 3 and out on first possession of an NFL game and Bills have done that several times. THats just poor game planning and execution if you can't move the ball to start a game. Even several bad teams start out games well. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thurst44 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Pokebball said: You remove Allen's rushing yards things don't look so bright remains my point. Most of his yards come from his decision to scramble after the pocket collapses. Please don't lose that perspective. Take this most recent game, for example. Josh rushed for 45; Gore for 34 and Singletary for 19. For the season, the Bills are averaging 130/game. Josh is responsible for 34 of that. The Bill's are under 100yds per game from our RBs Not good. And that's on the O line. Soooooo, those rushing yards don't count, then? Also, the plural of one game is not season in the same way the plural of anecdote is not data. Anyway, you watched the games with your interpretation, I did mine (re-watched a few times on condensed and coaches). What I saw: Dawkins blocking mostly well and often exceptionally for both run and pass. Cody Ford boom-or-bust, Feliciano a beast in run game, Spain much better in run than pass, Nsheke good enough I rarely even noticed him, Morse caught out a couple times, but some brilliant blocks). Admittedly, I'm not a coach, but there does seem to be a lot of things to be hopeful for. Edited October 31, 2019 by thurst44 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, thurst44 said: Soooooo, those rushing yards don't count, then. And the plural of one game is not season in the same way the plural of anecdote is not data. They count, but they take a toll. Josh has already been concussed and he's taken several legit roughing the passer or personal foul calls outside the pocket. When he runs, he exposes himself to big hits which will eventually take a toll. I don't think our running game is bad, so much as we just don't give our backs the ball enough. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 13 hours ago, Pokebball said: Remove Allens yards You might want to do some research. If you remove Allen's yards, their ypc average actually goes up. Presently, they're fifth in the league with 4.9 ypc. Allen is averaging 4.4. 25 minutes ago, Pokebball said: You remove Allen's rushing yards things don't look so bright remains my point. Most of his yards come from his decision to scramble after the pocket collapses. Please don't lose that perspective. Take this most recent game, for example. Josh rushed for 45; Gore for 34 and Singletary for 19. For the season, the Bills are averaging 130/game. Josh is responsible for 34 of that. The Bill's are under 100yds per game from our RBs Not good. And that's on the O line. If you're going to judge a running game, focus on production per play and not raw numbers. The Bills are objectively good at running the ball via their running backs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, thurst44 said: Soooooo, those rushing yards don't count, then? Also, the plural of one game is not season in the same way the plural of anecdote is not data. Anyway, you watched the games with your interpretation, I did mine (re-watched a few times on condensed and coaches). What I saw: Dawkins blocking mostly well and often exceptionally for both run and pass. Cody Ford boom-or-bust, Feliciano a beast in run game, Spain much better in run than pass, Nsheke good enough I rarely even noticed him, Morse caught out a couple times, but some brilliant blocks). Admittedly, I'm not a coach, but there does seem to be a lot of things to be hopeful for. Of course they count. But my point is all about the O line performing up to my expectations. When our RBs are averaging less than 100 yds per game and our QB is getting a significant number of rushing yards because his pocket collapses and he's scrambling, it's important to understand that. You don't think so? 9 minutes ago, jrober38 said: They count, but they take a toll. Josh has already been concussed and he's taken several legit roughing the passer or personal foul calls outside the pocket. When he runs, he exposes himself to big hits which will eventually take a toll. I don't think our running game is bad, so much as we just don't give our backs the ball enough. Our O line is horrendous blocking the edges. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Pokebball said: Of course they count. But my point is all about the O line performing up to my expectations. When our RBs are averaging less than 100 yds per game and our QB is getting a significant number of rushing yards because his pocket collapses and he's scrambling, it's important to understand that. You don't think so? I don’t have numbers, but to my eye most ofAllens rushing yards this year have come on designed runs, some on scrambles due to coverage , then even less when the pocket has collapsed. It’d be interesting to see a breakdown of this. The OL has been good, not dominating, but the RBs need more carries. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said: I don’t have numbers, but to my eye most ofAllens rushing yards this year have come on designed runs, some on scrambles due to coverage , then even less when the pocket has collapsed. It’d be interesting to see a breakdown of this. The OL has been good, not dominating, but the RBs need more carries. We both agree that the RBs need more carries. We'll have to agree to disagree on the performance of the O line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dr. K said: I thought it was funny, after the Eagles game, reading all the hysterical pronouncements: the Bills needed to run more, they needed to forget running and pass more, they needed to throw the long ball, they needed to get rid of Haushka, they needed to get AJ Green, they needed to get Trent Williams, they needed to fire Dabol, they don''t care about scoring points . . . etc. Fans are divided on what needs to be done about the offense, but they recognize that the offense needs some kind of change because it's ineffective at best and sometimes worse. Do the Bills FO/CS even acknowledge that? I'm not sure that they do. Many fans are calling for more running plays because it's widely accepted that a strong running game is a big help to any QB but especially a young one. It takes a lot of pressure off him. It also expands the play book to include play action passing which is very effective in slowing down the pass rush. 2 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said: Gore had 17 carries for 109 yards against the Pats.... Gore hasn't had that many carries before or since. Most good RBs tend to run better as they get more carries because they get into a rhythm -- as does their OL. A team can't have a good running game if their RBs frequently rush the ball 20 or fewer times a game and/or fail to rack up considerably more than 100+ yards with regularity. 41 minutes ago, Pokebball said: You remove Allen's rushing yards things don't look so bright remains my point. Most of his yards come from his decision to scramble after the pocket collapses. Please don't lose that perspective. Take this most recent game, for example. Josh rushed for 45; Gore for 34 and Singletary for 19. For the season, the Bills are averaging 130/game. Josh is responsible for 34 of that. The Bill's are under 100yds per game from our RBs Not good. And that's on the O line. Part of it is on the OL but part of it is simply not running enough. Even without Allen's yards, the RBs' average per carry is decent. That says that the coaches aren't calling enough run plays rather than the RBs aren't moving the ball. Edited October 31, 2019 by SoTier 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 we need a full blown panic attack and to fire everybody just like we did during the decade of fail 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasaluki Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 To me a big problem stems from Allen not being able to hit deep. If he improves, that it will open up the defenses and help the offense more than anything else. Allen has completely inverted in that he has significantly improved what was said by many to be impossible to improve:short-medium passing. But his deep ball accuracy has dropped off so badly that it is not even a concern for our opponents at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Socal-805 said: THIS is exactly correct IMO also: Buffalo is a poor passing team that INSISTS on throwing the ball anyway. https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/situational-run-pass-ratios--off-.html Here's your analytics Buffalo! Bills have an extremely high success rate running the ball. I thought for sure with the offensive lineman in free agency then picking ford and singletary they built this offense to pound the rock, this line is made to maul a defense not finesse pass block. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, SoTier said: Gore hasn't had that many carries before or since. Most good RBs tend to run better as they get more carries because they get into a rhythm -- as does their OL. A team can't have a good running game if their RBs frequently rush the ball 20 or fewer times a game and/or fail to rack up considerably more than 100+ yards with regularity. Part of it is on the OL but part of it is simply not running enough. Even without Allen's yards, the RBs' average per carry is decent. That says that the coaches aren't calling enough run plays rather than the RBs aren't moving the ball. I agree with what you’re saying. My contention would be that we don’t have a poor running game, but rather we have an under utilized rushing attack... but semantics. ?♂️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socal-805 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: You might want to do some research. If you remove Allen's yards, their ypc average actually goes up. Presently, they're fifth in the league with 4.9 ypc. Allen is averaging 4.4. If you're going to judge a running game, focus on production per play and not raw numbers. The Bills are objectively good at running the ball via their running backs. You are correct: Buffalo runs the ball at a 54 % "success" rate and at 4.9 yards / carry. BOTH stats among the highest in the league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 To the OP: Thanks for your Fred Jackson story! That was heart warming and a cool experience for you, no doubt. Made me feel good to read it. I went through the first page of responses and noted that nobody bothered to respond to this, largely because it is a positive story that unites us all as Bills fans. Most folks aren't here for that. They are filled with hate, want to argue and fight, and this explains the generally toxic environment at this forum. We are all brothers and sisters in that we are in the tiny minority of people in this country who cheer for the Buffalo Bills and want to see them win a Super Bowl. We all share more in common than in adversity, but you would never know it reading through the the threads here on a daily basis. What a shame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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