Have You Started To Lose Faith in Josh Allen?

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Rating of 125 in the 4th Q. Anointed as Mr. Clutch going into the game yesterday, and we were not able to see what he could’ve done to pull this game out thanks to Greggo tactics? No, not losing any faith over here. Just part of the learning process that comes with going up against the greatest defensive mind our league has ever seen, right? Let’s check back in on this thread to see how it’s aging come say, Week 16?

[row_33]

not at all, he's a young man with a ton of potential

 

has to learn QUICKLY that a few of his Go-to moves ain't going to cut it in the NFL

 

he gets until 2021 to become a star

 

 

[jrober38]

6 minutes ago, Figster said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

 

QBR and QB Rating aren't the same thing.

[Scott7975]

8 minutes ago, Figster said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

You are looking at QBR.  The other poster is looking at QB rating.

8 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

He did.  He also looked lost for the majority of the same committed some huge turnovers that essentially dug the team into that hole.

 

The fact they they were down just 13-3 at the half is a testament to the awesome performance of the defense.

The only thing that dug the team into a hole was a blocked punt.

[Phil The Thrill]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yes.  And one could craft a list - Lee Smith and Andre Roberts?  Gore is playing great - so stop running etc

 

I think Belichek is in Daboll’s head and he tries too hard when facing him.

Perhaps...maybe the playcalling wasn’t perfect but Daboll wasn’t the reason the Bills lost.

 

This loss is 100% on the shoulders of Josh Allen.  In a huge game, he turned in one his worst performances ever as a QB and reverted to the bad habits that we thought were coached out of him.  

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

You are looking at QBR.  The other poster is looking at QB rating.

The only thing that dug the team into a hole was a blocked punt.

The 3 turnovers didn’t help....neither did the sacks he gave up in FG range.  Or the times he held onto the ball too long.  
 

This was a terrible performance by Allen.  Unless he can bounce back, consider me concerned about his future 

10 minutes ago, row_33 said:

not at all, he's a young man with a ton of potential

 

has to learn QUICKLY that a few of his Go-to moves ain't going to cut it in the NFL

 

he gets until 2021 to become a star

 

 

I hope so.... but he hasn’t learned this in nearly 2 years since college.  He’s making the same mistakes he did at Wyoming 

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Perhaps...maybe the playcalling wasn’t perfect but Daboll wasn’t the reason the Bills lost.

 

This loss is 100% on the shoulders of Josh Allen.  In a huge game, he turned in one his worst performances ever as a QB and reverted to the bad habits that we thought were coached out of him.  

The 3 turnovers didn’t help....neither did the sacks he gave up in FG range.  Or the times he held onto the ball too long.  
 

This was a terrible performance by Allen.  Unless he can bounce back, consider me concerned about his future 

 

I don't disagree with any of that.  Turnovers didn't help.  He needs to cut them out.  This is quite possibly his worst performance to date.  However, the Pats defense is real.  Allen is the first QB this year to get a TD on them.  Granted other than Ben, the Pats haven't faced any real competition, but even still.

[ngbills]

He is looking a bit like Colin K once the league figured him out. Problem is Allen is only in year 2...hopefully he can learn to be a better decision maker and rely less on being an athlete. 

[26TrapDraw]

Here's my issue with Josh. Defense will play elite level ball all year and all Allen needs to do is be efficient and the Bills would have easily won that game . Instead we have a guy who got all fired up and threw mechanics and the fundamentals of being a smart qb out the window for throwing I'll advised balls into double and triple coverage and trying to be big play Charlie. Even though he's only a 23 yr old kid He has a long way to go with his maturation process as a man and especially as a QB.

That's this couch experts eyeball assessment.

[Albany,n.y.]

I've lost faith in fans who don't watch football enough to know every QB looks bad at times & in certain games if you nitpick every throw.  I wonder how many Patriots fans are worried that Brady is done because he played lousy yesterday.  How about the GB fans who must be giving up on Rodgers because when it came down to the final series he couldn't get the job done.  Are Jets fans giving up on Darnold because when Allen marched the bills down the field on the winning drive vs the Jets, Darnold couldn't get the job done?  Did all of you who were around during Kelly's prime lose faith when he went into KC or Pittsburgh for what seemed like his annual butt kicking?  

 

My point is if you watch only 1 QB regularly,  you can pretty much lose faith in him no matter who he is.  They all are flawed, make what appears to be stupid decisions and do not always get the job done when needed.  Do you know why?  It's because they are playing against NFL defenses.  Yesterday 2 of the NFL's best Ds faced off against each other & both made the opposing QB look bad.  That's what happens in the NFL.  We don't get to play bad Ds every week.  If you start picking apart your QB when he plays one of the best Ds in the league & don't realize those guys get paid big bucks too, you don't understand the NFL.  The worst of the bunch are the stat boys who don't understand why the pros look at & break down film rather than just look at a printed piece of paper.  

Edited October 1, 2019 by Albany,n.y.

[KingBoots8]

Hell no I haven’t.

 

Josh technically hasn’t even had a seasons worth of games under him as a starter. He’s going to make boneheaded mistakes. He’s going to throw when he shouldn’t. He’s going to learn from the mistakes. I’d rather he get them out of the way now so that in the latter part of the season he gets things going. 

 

He played the NFL’s best coach- a defensive coach who is the best at what he does (sadly), and he got some shell shock. Then he came out and punched them in the mouth and scored the first TD they’ve surrendered since 2018.

 

the player I compare him to at this time would probably be Eli Manning- he’s going to make boneheaded decisions and sometimes might lose you a game, but when he turns it on he’s going to put the team on his back and get the job done. It may not be pretty, but if he gets wins that’s what matters most to the franchise.

 

You can’t abandon hope when the kid hasn’t even hit a full season of play. That happened to EJ and he had nowhere near the physical tools Allen has. Let him grow.

[dous21]

maybe not yet but his start to the season hasn't given me as much hope as I thought it would

 

yea he has won us games, but he is also making some braindead plays out there that he really isn't learning from. Idk if that is his fault or the coaching staff for not developing him properly. He needs the hero ball out completely. throwing interceptions like that on 1st downs is alarming for any QB. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by dous21

[Albany,n.y.]

1 minute ago, dous21 said:

maybe not yet but his start to the season hasn't given me as much hope as I thought it would

 

yea he has won us games, but he is also making some braindead plays out there that he really isn't learning from. Idk if that is his fault or the coaching staff for not developing him properly. 

Go back & watch Brett Favre at the same point in their careers.  Favre played the same way.  I'll take a Brett Favre career out of Josh Allen.  

16 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

QBR and QB Rating aren't the same thing.

Neither is a good measure of what's going on on the field. 

[dous21]

21 minutes ago, row_33 said:

not at all, he's a young man with a ton of potential

 

has to learn QUICKLY that a few of his Go-to moves ain't going to cut it in the NFL

 

he gets until 2021 to become a star

 

 

 

lol this coaching staff has 2 years to show success or they will be out the door. the new staff might want to draft their own QB. If Allen doesn't improve massively this season its going to be "show us you are a franchise QB" or bust next year. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by dous21

[row_33]

20 minutes ago, ngbills said:

He is looking a bit like Colin K once the league figured him out. Problem is Allen is only in year 2...hopefully he can learn to be a better decision maker and rely less on being an athlete. 

 

teams take a closer look at you in your 2nd year than they do for your 1st year

 

they write the book

 

some call it a "sophomore slump" but it's really the opposition putting severe review on the player now they know he is sticking around

 

 

13 minutes ago, dous21 said:

 

lol this coaching staff has 2 years to show success or they will be out the door. the new staff might want to draft their own QB. If Allen doesn't improve massively this season its going to be "show us you are a franchise QB" or best next year. 

 

Jim Kelly took a 3rd year to begin showing his true worth, even with his semi-pro experience and a lot of great players already in place

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Fans are so stupid. The Pats defense has done this to every QB they have played in the last 10 games, and BB's specialty is doing exactly this against young QBs. If it were the Jets or the Giants that did this to JA, I would be worried.  This is a giant nothingburger.  Josh has shown progression.  Unfortunately, everyone takes steps back.  That doesn't change the career arc. 

 

You sir have the most rational post of this thread.

I do love the Minshew II comparisons.  My god, when he tears up BBs defense then I lift my head up and say "Whatttt".

 

Allen has to learn to keep his emotions restrained.  It's the biggest part of the game he has to learn to control.

[Alphadawg7]

Question:  How many sacks, throwaways and forced bad throws did Allen have yesterday because his receivers didn’t get open?

 

Hint:  A lot.

 

Josh needs help, and having two tiny WRs in Brown and Cole isn’t enough.  Zay isnt good enough and just doesn’t have “it”, Foster is hurt and was barely in the rotation when helathy, and McKenzie is more of a gadget player.

 

Its imperative Daboll starts involving Knox and Sweeney more, and early along with Yeldon out of the backfield (until singletary is back).  Daboll has to be better too and help Josh out.  No coincidence that we scored our only TD this week, and only TD scored against the Pats all year when we did that.

 

Also, it’s time to bring up the Duke.  I don’t give a damn who we lose to do it, but it has to happen.  Other WRs after Brown and Cole are producing pretty much nothing, so he can’t be any worse but could be a good big target and asset in redzone and third downs.  We need a possession WR who can be open in tight coverage.  

Edited September 30, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Socal-805]

5 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I was at the game Sunday and there was 1 reason the Bills lost the game.  They lost the game for one reason - Josh Allen.  He was absolutely putrid at QB.  I’m a big fan of Allen but he was THE reason why we lost.  
 

We’re starting to get to the point where you can’t use the whole “lack of experience” excuses for Allen.  For all the progress be seemed to make, we still see him revert back to the traits (holding onto the ball, poor footwork passing up short routes, inaccuracies) from college.  
 

We saw on Sunday that the thing he does well, scrambling, leaves his open for huge cheap shots to the head.  

He also doesn’t seem to be elevating the offense either.  Take a look at how much better NYG has been since Daniel Jones took over last week.  Or how much better Cleveland was behind Baker and not Tyrod.  Or to a MUCH lesser extent Gardiner Minshew in Jacksonville.   Allen has struggled to generate much more than 20 points per game.
 

So have you lost faith in Josh Allen?

 

If you haven’t lost faith, what give you hope that he will eventually start elevating the offense?  

I’m completely on the fence, but trending toward skepticism, unfortunately. 

 

 

I am pretty sure you will get mostly positve responses on this board, however I am pretty concerned and I can guarentee you, the Bills Front Office is also concerned: how

can you NOT be.  Allen is on pace after 4 games to compete 12 TDs and 24 INT's.  That is a 1:2 ration in the wrogn direction, and almost identifcal to last year's rookie stats.

 

 

[jrober38]

11 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Neither is a good measure of what's going on on the field. 

 

I don't agree. They're not perfect but they're not bad either. 

 

Allen ranks at the bottom of the NFL in both categories. 

 

Looking at the guys ranked all around him (or just above him since he's near the bottom), there's no one who I'd think is a legit franchise QB.

[Socal-805]

5 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Not even close. If you were at the game and couldn’t feel and see that Josh was bringing them back, than you either haven’t watched a lot of football or don’t want Josh to be the answer.

a lot of the great quarterbacks play terrible games and then win them in the end. That’s what Josh was getting ready to do before the cheap shot. 

 

 

So you're not concerned abot his 1 : 2 TD to INT ration again this year?

 

He's on pace after 4 games to throw 24 picks....  That's even worse than E.J. Manual bad.

 

 

 

 

[Nick the Greek]

Josh Allen is the man and a winner. Hoping he plays against the Titans. 

[BringBackOrton]

4 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

If that’s what you see then you deserve Orton. Same for the brilliant guy pushing a jp losman agenda.

 

Watch the ***** games and leave your idiot glasses aside. The team had had too many lapses through 4 games,but I’m not in panic mode.

 

 

 

 

Yeah I watched the game. I watched our QB play the worst game of his career.

[colin]

I lost faith in the moment.  I kinda did a bit vs jets too.

 

i will say tho, if josh were on the pitch in the 4th (the entire 4th) and not knocked out, we walk away a winner.

 

alpha once again puts the focus on the WR situation.  I think we are gonna have to run 21 personal a lot once Kroft comes back.  tiny wrs who get open all over, two giant athletic TEs, and a do everything back.  basically what the pats do.

[jrober38]

5 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

I am pretty sure you will get mostly positve responses on this board, however I am pretty concerned and I can guarentee you, the Bills Front Office is also concerned: how

can you NOT be.  Allen is on pace after 4 games to compete 12 TDs and 24 INT's.  That is a 1:2 ration in the wrogn direction, and almost identifcal to last year's rookie stats.

 

 

 

There it is. 

 

2018 - QB Rating was 68

2019 QB Rating so far is 69.6

 

The improvement people keep referencing isn't backed up by stats. His completion percentage is up marginally, but everything else is as it was a year ago, and the big change is his rushing yards are way down from last season.

 

[Albany,n.y.]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

Yeah I watched the game. I watched our QB play the worst game of his career.

Against Bill Belichick's defense.  Now go to the message board of the Patriots opponents week after week & you'll see someone saying the same thing.  That's because nobody does it better than Belichick & week after week, year after year he's made a career of making the opposing QB play the worst or close to the worst game of the QB's career.    

[Figster]

27 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

QBR and QB Rating aren't the same thing.

Appreciate the heads up,

 

but my point remains.

 

More to a QB and leader of a football team then shows up in the stats every week. Used to be completion percentage, now thats up detractors move on to something else. What amounts to about one full season play in game starts still leaves allot of developing for a QB entering the NFL about as raw and gifted with god given talent as they come in my humble opinion.

[Scott7975]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't agree. They're not perfect but they're not bad either. 

 

Allen ranks at the bottom of the NFL in both categories. 

 

Looking at the guys ranked all around him (or just above him since he's near the bottom), there's no one who I'd think is a legit franchise QB.

Cam Newton and Big Ben are ranked directly ahead and behind him.  Oof.

[jrober38]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

Cam Newton and Big Ben are ranked directly ahead and behind him.  Oof.

 

Two QBs who look like they might be done in the NFL.

1 minute ago, Figster said:

Appreciate the heads up,

 

but my point remains.

 

More to a QB and leader of a football team then shows up in the stats every week. Used to be completion percentage, now thats up detractors move on to something else. What amounts to about one full season play in game starts still leaves allot of developing for a QB entering the NFL about as raw and gifted with god given talent as they come in my humble opinion.

 

Sure, there's more to it than just stats, but when your stats are as bad as Allen's, it's just a matter of time until you get benched. 

 

You can't be at the bottom of the NFL in passer efficiency and be a legit franchise QB. At some point the excuses run out and you actually have to put up numbers. 

[Figster]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Two QBs who look like they might be done in the NFL.

If you look at the stats on Brady yesterday, one might say Tom Bradys done in the NFL.

 

This just in, 

 

I don't think he is...

[ctk232]

4 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

Hell no.      If he finishes the game we probably win.  

 

All these sky are falling at 3-1 posts are pretty lame 

I don't think anyone fully understands the context of all of this at this point in the season, but 3-1 at the end of September. I'll attribute most of this, including my own emotions, to the Pats week hangover - especially after a championship defensive performance - but the reality is that we're 3-1, with Josh.

 

This after an entire offseason of excitement, sure, but most of us thought this would still be a sub-.500 win team this year, maybe some true hopefuls pulling for 9-7 or 10-6, but let's put this all into context: most everyone thought we were at least another year, if not two, away from competing. Not the playoffs, not the SB, but simply competing. At the end of last year, we all knew our Defense was stout but they were prone to letting games get away from them with an anemic offense, and our offense left us no where to go but up, literally, it was the worst in myriad ways. And in less than a year from then, this team goes 3-1 in their first four games of the season. The the one loss? It came to the team that just won the SB, may very well do it again this year, and was still a game that was another single drive away from a similar finish to Week 1. Contrary to most of the chicken little hot takes, our Defense didn't let three INTs and a fumble catalyze the typical runaway we see from the Pats games every year. Our offense, while facing one of the best D's in the league, stalled, but still did something no team has done since last year's SB: score a TD. Hell, we were a handful of yards away from scoring at least twice more, and this with a roster that was assembled and has only been together a grand total of 4 months....that's unreal.

 

Before I'm gifted the rose colored glasses, there were plenty of mistakes to learn from and bad play from Josh to critique, among others, but he's not perfect and he's not going to be perfect. It's year 2, and for where he is in his development thus far is leaving most of us not just hopeful for next season (which is where a lot of people would be resigning themselves to at this point last year and years before), but hopeful for the rest of this season. I'm upset he likely won't get the chance to continue his development bounce back for this week against the Titans, but with a two week stretch and three home games following, there's no reason to say we won't go 3-1 in our next four games as well.

[Alphadawg7]

47 minutes ago, K-Apps said:

 

I know it’s Benoit, but this an example of Allen not reading what the Pats are doing here. Gotta make a quick throw as soon as the ball is snapped.

 

Somebody has to be open during Allen’s progression through his reads for him to make a quick throw.  I’m sure there are people he may have missed on certain plays, but also there were many plays where our guys just didn’t get their jobs done and get open.

 

For a QB to drop back and fire, that means the hot read needs to win his initial route immediately.  It also is greatly impacted by the routes called as some routes take time to develop. So if the short route isn’t open and the down field routes are still developing (or not open), then Allen won’t have a place to drop and fire too. 

 

Even the commentary during the game and even in halftime show repeatedly talked about how nobody is getting open for Josh which leads to coverage sacks or ill advised throws being forced as Allen tries to hard to make something happen.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Socal-805]

7 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Cam Newton and Big Ben are ranked directly ahead and behind him.  Oof.

 

 

... and WHERE are those teams ?

 

 

[Helpmenow]

Another thing  have daboll stop using him as a running back. Your asking for trouble.

[Scott7975]

11 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Two QBs who look like they might be done in the NFL.

 

Sure, there's more to it than just stats, but when your stats are as bad as Allen's, it's just a matter of time until you get benched. 

 

You can't be at the bottom of the NFL in passer efficiency and be a legit franchise QB. At some point the excuses run out and you actually have to put up numbers. 

Tom Brady had a 45.9 rating yesterday.  Is he done too?

[Bangarang]

I’ve tried to remain cautiously optimistic about Allen. One bad or good game shouldn’t sway your opinion one way or the other.

 

I am seeing concerning trends though. His bonehead throws and decision making are an obvious problem. I get it, young QBs make mistakes but Allen seems to keep making the same ones. He still has a lot of work to do before I consider him a franchise QB.

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I was at the game Sunday and there was 1 reason the Bills lost the game.  They lost the game for one reason - Josh Allen.  He was absolutely putrid at QB.  I’m a big fan of Allen but he was THE reason why we lost.  
 

We’re starting to get to the point where you can’t use the whole “lack of experience” excuses for Allen.  For all the progress be seemed to make, we still see him revert back to the traits (holding onto the ball, poor footwork passing up short routes, inaccuracies) from college.  
 

We saw on Sunday that the thing he does well, scrambling, leaves his open for huge cheap shots to the head.  

He also doesn’t seem to be elevating the offense either.  Take a look at how much better NYG has been since Daniel Jones took over last week.  Or how much better Cleveland was behind Baker and not Tyrod.  Or to a MUCH lesser extent Gardiner Minshew in Jacksonville.   Allen has struggled to generate much more than 20 points per game.
 

So have you lost faith in Josh Allen?

 

If you haven’t lost faith, what give you hope that he will eventually start elevating the offense?  

I’m completely on the fence, but trending toward skepticism, unfortunately. 

 

[atlbillsfan1975]

14 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

So you're not concerned abot his 1 : 2 TD to INT ration again this year?

 

He's on pace after 4 games to throw 24 picks....  That's even worse than E.J. Manual bad.

 

 

 

 

You are bringing up EJ Manuel’s name? Good lord. 

Allen is the answer. Nobody and I mean nobody is perfect. Allen I believe just played his 16th game in the NFL. He is progressing. Go back and watch anyone who you think is a great quarterback. They play bad games. They get better. No I am not the least bit concerned about Allen. He is young, he is emotional, and he wants to be great. Oh and he has more physical talent than any other QB in the game. Yesterday he was too emotional. I will concede that. I think that goes away as he is presented with the situation more. I also think the emotion points to what Allen wants, to win for himself, his team, and for us. 

Guys it is easy to beat up on Allen today. Allen isn’t why we lost that game. He finishes it and the Bills win it. 

[buffalosean]

Josh looked very confused.  He was having a hard time reading the defense.  He was forcing passes and throwing off the back foot.  Belicheat is a great coach and prepares his team well.  Josh will need to do lot's of film study on all his opponents in the future to learn and get more confident.  Our coaches need to do a better job on offense in preparing the team and instilling confidence in them in my opinion.

 

Our offense was outmatched.  But our defense looked incredible.  Excelllent job.  Defense plays with purpose and will keep getting better.  They are scary.

 

We have to hope the offense gets better and more confident.  Josh needs to prepare and have confidence in his ability to read a defense and keep working on his fundamentals.  I really want him to bounce back strong.  Knox is looking good.  We need Singletary back as he gives us an awesome weapon out of the backfield.

 

On to Tennessee!!!  Hey we are still 3-1.  Schedule looks good.  

 

Today NFL rankings:

 

Defense:

 

1. Patriots

2.Bills

 

 

[jrober38]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Somebody has to be open during Allen’s progression through his reads for him to make a quick throw.  I’m sure there are people he may have missed on certain plays, but also there were many plays where our guys just didn’t get their jobs done and get open.

 

For a QB to drop back and fire, that means the hot read needs to win his initial route immediately.  It also is greatly impacted by the routes called as some routes take time to develop. So if the short route isn’t open and the down field routes are still developing (or not open), then Allen won’t have a place to drop and fire too. 

 

Even the commentary during the game and even in halftime show repeatedly talked about how nobody is getting open for Josh which leads to coverage sacks or ill advised throws being forced as Allen tries to hard to make something happen.

 

This has nothing to do with the receivers.

 

The issue in this clip is that the Pats have 8 men in the box and are showing blitz and Allen has 7 guys into block. 

 

The math isn't on his side. He doesn't have enough guys to block the number of potential rushers.

 

Instead of recognizing this and changing the play, Allen takes the snap and takes his usual drop as if he has no idea that a blitz is coming. He takes a 5 step drop from shotgun, and makes no effort to get the ball out of his hands to a receiver to either complete a pass or avoid a sack. He just takes the sack, oblivious to the fact that the safety coming off the edge was coming unblocked. 

As happened numerous times yesterday, Allen really struggled to read the defense pre and post snap. This is an example of that. 

[Scott7975]

7 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

... and WHERE are those teams ?

 

 

WHERE is our team?

Edited September 30, 2019 by Scott7975

[Mike in Horseheads]

NO!