Will offense operate better with Barkley next week?

[GG]

This is really a combination of several threads - Onto the Titans, Josh Concussion Protocol, Daboll offense doesn't score in 1st half, and John Brown talking about how complicated the offense is.

 

I think it's unlikely that Josh plays next week because the NFL doesn't take concussions lightly, and with Bills facing a bye in week 6 they will play it safe with him.

 

We knew that Allen was the least ready of the 2018 prospects, and any great defense will force him into mistakes.  That's why Daboll was screaming at him on the sidelines, because he continues to force the ball when it's not necessary.  It's also obvious that Josh is having trouble executing Daboll's complex offense and the new players haven't helped the kid yet.  Or maybe Allen is emboldened to take more risks with the new guys and that hasn't worked out yet.

 

What is obvious is that Barkley is better prepared to run this offense, as designed, but clearly can't do what Josh can if the play breaks down.  

 

I think that another break will be important for Allen to settle down, as he watches Barkley's methodical approach take apart the opposing defenses.   I don't think Barkley will struggle next week, and will put together some good tape for Allen to study.

 

 

 

[Happy]

I'd feel better about next week if Singletary plays.  Barkley will need as much help as possible.  He will need to get the ball out quickly since our O-line is struggling with pass protection.  The run game and short, quick passes will be a good start, rather than the long ball requiring a longer time of pass protection.

[buffalo2218]

The Titans have a pretty decent defense, but no where near our calibur. The big test will be with this o line. As you pointed out, Barkley can't make something out of nothing like Allen can. But I do think Barkley is better at going through his progressions, but this O line will have to play lights out and give better protection. If Singletary comes back, I believe we win rather convincingly

[DollaBills]

This team as it stands reminds me of the giants/ravens sb teams of recent where the defense is on another level and we have gunslinger/journeyman qb's ala Allen/Barkley. If either one of these average qb's can get on the level of "hot enough" the same way flacco or eli could, i honestly think either qb could win a lot of games for us

[Virgil]

All he needs to do is play mistake free football.  

[formerlyofCtown]

Did it operate better this week.  I was upset and wanted him benched to settle him down but he came out in the second half and marched down the field.  He had NE on the run so they cheapshoted him.  In crunch time I think Allen is a beast and there is no other QB I would rather have in the fourth quarter.  Unfortunately you have to bare with him in the first half.

[mannc]

5 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I'd feel better about next week if Singletary plays.  Barkley will need as much help as possible.  He will need to get the ball out quickly since our O-line is struggling with pass protection.  The run game and short, quick passes will be a good start, rather than the long ball requiring a longer time of pass protection.

That was the biggest difference I noticed after Allen came out of the game:  Barkley gets rid of the ball much faster.  Allen held on to the ball forever; reminded me of Tyrod in his worst games.

[Kelly the Dog]

It is not obvious. . Josh gives them much better chance. 

[GG]

4 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

It is not obvious. . Josh gives them much better chance. 

 

Short term vs long term goal?

 

This could be a case where Josh again benefits from sitting down and watching.   

[GoBills808]

How is it at all obvious that Barkley is better prepared to operate the offense?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Short term vs long term goal?

 

This could be a case where Josh again benefits from sitting down and watching.   

 

Under no circumstance is it better to have Barkley out there than Allen.

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, GG said:

 

Short term vs long term goal?

 

This could be a case where Josh again benefits from sitting down and watching.   

Barkley is not good. He's way overrated here. Josh benefits by experience imo. He's a different kind of guy. Three minutes to go, even today when he was awful at times, I wouldn't bet against him. He's still raw. He's going to make more mistakes than most guys.  But he has intangibles and playmaking ability that override a lot of it 

[clearwater cadet]

I hope Allen plays.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The best our offense has ever looked with Dabol, was the only game Barkley started. Not saying it will happen again but after a week of #1 reps...my guess is Matt will be much more efficient then Allen. Definitely want Singletary back though. The top of the defense won’t be organicly lifted off by the presence of Allen’s arm. Just don’t tell any of the defenses that although Allen can throw it deep, he never completes it

[GG]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

Barkley is not good. He's way overrated here. Josh benefits by experience imo. He's a different kind of guy. Three minutes to go, even today when he was awful at times, I wouldn't bet against him. He's still raw. He's going to make more mistakes than most guys.  But he has intangibles and playmaking ability that override a lot of it 

 

The big issue is that his play in the first 3 Qs  puts the entire onus on the defense to keep the game in check.  There's no question that I would rather have him than Barkley when the game is on the line with 3 minutes to go.  But realistically, the first 3 games should have been blow outs, and today's game wouldn't need last minute heroics with half way decent QB play.  

 

I think that at this point, with the offense that Daboll is running, Barkley is the better option.   

 

There has to be concern about Allen's regression this year, especially when the long ball has been woefully off.

[atlbillsfan1975]

7 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Barkley is not good. He's way overrated here. Josh benefits by experience imo. He's a different kind of guy. Three minutes to go, even today when he was awful at times, I wouldn't bet against him. He's still raw. He's going to make more mistakes than most guys.  But he has intangibles and playmaking ability that override a lot of it 

This. For the Bills to win with Barkley everyone has to play a near perfect game. Singletary needs to be in there. 

Allen is capable of things Barkley can never dream about doing.

[John from Riverside]

Do we know Josh wont play?

[MAJBobby]

Let’s go Josh. Get healthy. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, GG said:

 

The big issue is that his play in the first 3 Qs  puts the entire onus on the defense to keep the game in check.  There's no question that I would rather have him than Barkley when the game is on the line with 3 minutes to go.  But realistically, the first 3 games should have been blow outs, and today's game wouldn't need last minute heroics with half way decent QB play.  

 

I think that at this point, with the offense that Daboll is running, Barkley is the better option.   

 

There has to be concern about Allen's regression this year, especially when the long ball has been woefully off.

 

Which regression are we talking about here?

Regression in completion percentage?

 

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

 

The big issue is that his play in the first 3 Qs  puts the entire onus on the defense to keep the game in check.  There's no question that I would rather have him than Barkley when the game is on the line with 3 minutes to go.  But realistically, the first 3 games should have been blow outs, and today's game wouldn't need last minute heroics with half way decent QB play.  

 

I think that at this point, with the offense that Daboll is running, Barkley is the better option.   

 

There has to be concern about Allen's regression this year, especially when the long ball has been woefully off.

Love ya, man. I think that's crazy talk.

[GG]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Which regression are we talking about here?

Regression in completion percentage?

 

 

Regression in the best part of his game last year, and in careless decision making.  Six INTs and four? fumbles in 4 games is not a great stat.

[Maine-iac]

Allen's physical talent is being completely overshadowed by his horrible decision.  Allen definitely has much more physical talent  but when he's making 4 or 5 bad plays a game that you've been coached not to make your whole football career it's not hard for a journeyman back up to look like a better game manager.  Allen is doing more to make himself look bad than Barkley will do to make to make himself look good.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, GG said:

 

Regression in the best part of his game last year, and in careless decision making.  Six INTs and four? fumbles in 4 games is not a great stat.

 

Right. And he's had considerable IMPROVEMENT in the weakest part of his game last year, which has led to some pretty good results.

 

Yes, the turnovers are a problem. But I will take that 100/100 times over Tyrod's maddening fear of failure.

 

[SirAndrew]

14 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Barkley is not good. He's way overrated here. Josh benefits by experience imo. He's a different kind of guy. Three minutes to go, even today when he was awful at times, I wouldn't bet against him. He's still raw. He's going to make more mistakes than most guys.  But he has intangibles and playmaking ability that override a lot of it 

I agree. TBD needs to watch some Barkley with the Bears tape. He is not a good QB. He’s at Derek Anderson’s level imo. He had a good preseason, so everyone is way too pumped about him. 

[MAJBobby]

Get Healthy Josh. I don’t need to see this team next week with Barkley at QB

[GG]

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Right. And he's had considerable IMPROVEMENT in the weakest part of his game last year, which has led to some pretty good results.

 

Yes, the turnovers are a problem. But I will take that 100/100 times over Tyrod's maddening fear of failure.

 

 

What does Tyrod have to do with this discussion?

 

And to be clear, I'm in no way saying that Barkley should be the long term starter.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The way Allen ran off the field made me think he’s probably ok. I would actually be a little surprised if he didn’t play 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, GG said:

 

What does Tyrod have to do with this discussion?

 

And to be clear, I'm in no way saying that Barkley should be the long term starter.

he shouldn’t even start next week 

[SirAndrew]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

Get Healthy Josh. I don’t need to see this team next week with Barkley at QB

I don’t see how anyone could disagree with this. We’ve seen Barkley led Bills teams for the past 20+ years. They just had different names on their jerseys. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, GG said:

 

What does Tyrod have to do with this discussion?

 

And to be clear, I'm in no way saying that Barkley should be the long term starter.

 

My point is, you're going to get mistakes with Josh. And I'm OK with that.

 

I don't need him to be Tom Brady. I need him to be fearless, ESPECIALLY at this point in his career. How many DOZENS of QBs have we seen shrink mentally in this town?

 

 

[John from Riverside]

If Matt plays expect us to run the ball.....a lot

 

THis OL is not playing great right now....and Josh gets away from danger that Matt will not.

 

but

 

Right now Matt throws with much more anticipation then Josh does...so we would probably see that in the game.

 

I have confidence in Barkely but he does NOT give us a better chance to win

[Best Player Available]

The more Barkley rides pine. The better. 

[Kelly the Dog]

9 minutes ago, GG said:

 

The big issue is that his play in the first 3 Qs  puts the entire onus on the defense to keep the game in check.  There's no question that I would rather have him than Barkley when the game is on the line with 3 minutes to go.  But realistically, the first 3 games should have been blow outs, and today's game wouldn't need last minute heroics with half way decent QB play.  

 

I think that at this point, with the offense that Daboll is running, Barkley is the better option.   

 

There has to be concern about Allen's regression this year, especially when the long ball has been woefully off.

Barkley is Peterman 1.0. He's not good. He's capable of the game against the Jets last year if he gets a boatload of luck. He has a terrible arm and it showed again today. He's okay for a half or maybe a game but he's awful. If he had a decent arm he would be a starter in this league. But he doesn't. He was a fourth round pick because he had everything but an arm and it's a death knell. 

 

 

 

 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Best Player Available said:

The more Barkley rides pine. The better. 

100% true

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

Barkley is Peterman 1.0. He's not good. He's capable of the game against the Jets last year if he gets a boatload of luck. He has a terrible arm and it showed again today. He's okay for a half or maybe a game but he's awful. If he had a decent arm he would be a starter in this league. But he doesn't. He was a fourth round pick because he had everything but an arm and it's a death knell. 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

[mannc]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Barkley is Peterman 1.0. He's not good. He's capable of the game against the Jets last year if he gets a boatload of luck. He has a terrible arm and it showed again today. He's okay for a half or maybe a game but he's awful. If he had a decent arm he would be a starter in this league. But he doesn't. He was a fourth round pick because he had everything but an arm and it's a death knell. 

 

 

 

 

C'mon, that's ridiculous.  I don't want Barkley to have to start more than a game or two, but he's an above average backup and I thought he played pretty well today.  He is much more decisive than Allen and gets rid of the ball a lot faster.  I agree Barkley doesn't have a real strong arm, but it's good enough.  His biggest problem, especially with our o-line, is his lack of mobility, but getting rid of the ball quickly helps.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, mannc said:

C'mon, that's ridiculous.  I don't want Barkley to have to start more than a game or two, but he's an above average backup and I thought he played pretty well today.  He is much more decisive than Allen and gets rid of the ball a lot faster.  I agree Barkley doesn't have a real strong arm, but it's good enough.  His biggest problem, especially with our o-line, is his lack of mobility, but getting rid of the ball quickly helps.  

 

Uh, what?

 

Did you see his last possession?

 

just awful, no arm.

 

[Doc Brown]

9 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

The way Allen ran off the field made me think he’s probably ok. I would actually be a little surprised if he didn’t play 

He thought he was in Wyoming. 

[BITE ME]

6 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Barkley is Peterman 1.0. He's not good. He's capable of the game against the Jets last year if he gets a boatload of luck. He has a terrible arm and it showed again today. He's okay for a half or maybe a game but he's awful. If he had a decent arm he would be a starter in this league. But he doesn't. He was a fourth round pick because he had everything but an arm and it's a death knell. 

 

 

 

 

 

Barkley is better than Peterman.  He is much more like a Trent Dilfer, who won a Super Bowl with an elite defense.  I think he is good enough to manage a game and beat anyone if the Defense dominates and they get the running game going. 

[Boatdrinks]

If they don’t look better against TEN than they did against NE something is wrong. I think Barkley is capable of getting a win, but I think it’s unlikely.  That’s a top D they faced today. Barkley is a very limited athlete, but he may get the start as protocol usually is over a week.