Zeke 6 years $90 millionw/ $50 mil guarenteed

[thebandit27]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Interesting.  I think they're a 9-7 team....bubble playoff team IMO.

I like the Saints first.  I think this is their year.

 

Dallas' defense is legitimately good.  They have a chance to be a top-5 unit if their young secondary players round into form and a secondary pass rusher steps up to complement Lawrence (looking at you, Taco).

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

4 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

McCoy finished better than 5th on the team in receiving yards once, and that was because we arguably had the worst group of receivers in the league. Even then, he still managed to finish 5th last year when that was still the case.

 

I don't put a ton of stock in last year. In any event, when you consider McCoy's rushing and passing stats together, he accounted for the majority of the team's yards. 

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

The fact that the compromise was Dallas giving him MORE money in order to have him locked up for 8 years instead of a sane number is crazy.

5 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I don't put a ton of stock in last year. In any event, when you consider McCoy's rushing and passing stats together, he accounted for the majority of the team's yards. 

He accounted for less than 15% of the team's yards last year.

Edited September 4, 2019 by DCOrange

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

The fact that the compromise was Dallas giving him MORE money in order to have him locked up for 8 years instead of a sane number is crazy.

He accounted for less than 15% of the team's yards last year.

 

He sucked last year; hence, my comment that I don't put a lot of stock in last year. 

[DCOrange]

3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

He sucked last year; hence, my comment that I don't put a lot of stock in last year. 

Yes, but you said he accounted for the majority of the team's yards when it was actually a very small fraction and nowhere remotely close to a majority.

Edited September 4, 2019 by DCOrange

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

A top 3 pick and $15 million per year on a RB. No thanks. Are they also going to pay Dak more than Goff? If so we should make a serious push for Amari Cooper in free agency next year. Because Dallas can't afford him.

 

They can actually.

 

Zeke's extension most likely helps their 2020 cap situation by lowering his cap hit from the 5th year option number of $9.1M.

 

Even with La'el Collins' new deal and Zeke's option number, the Cowboys have only $133M committed to the 2020 cap.  If you assume the cap is ~$200M, then they'd have $67M in space.  Easy enough to afford Cooper on a market-value contract; figure $18M AAV.  Even if they absorb $20M of that in year 1 (which they probably won't), they'd still have $47M in cap space.  If you assume that they tag Dak, then they'll be down to about $22M in cap space.

 

The problem for them is that--with Cooper signed and Dak tagged--they'd have only 40 players under contract, so they'd have to be judicious about how they fill their last 13 roster spots.  Obviously 4-5 of those can come from the draft, so it's really going to be a question of how they handle their bottom 9-10 on the roster.

 

Of course, none of that takes into account cap savings (or open roster spots) from letting go of overpriced vets like Tyrone Crawford and Cam Fleming, which would save the team $12.5M in cap space.

 

Plus, they have Will McClay; the dude is as good as it gets when it comes to roster-building.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, DCOrange said:

Yes, but you said he accounted for the majority of the team's yards when it was actually a very small fraction and nowhere remotely close to a majority.

Yeah, I see why you think that. I was unclear. I was trying to convey that outside of last year, in the years prior, he accounted for a majority of the team's yards. 

[Mr. WEO]

Zeke will be out of shape.  First month injury coming. 

 

Poor Jerry.   If he was intent to waste this much money on his RB he should have done it a month ago.

[Victory Formation]

9 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Did he Really?

 

   Were we contenders because of that RB?  

We made the playoffs with him. I’d suggest that if you have a great QB, a RB is less important. If you have no QB, a great RB is necessary. I feel those two realities are on a sliding scale that goes up and down depending on the competency of your QB. Even a game manager such as Dak or Dalton may need more oomph at RB to be successful, while Rodgers or Brady would be fine with a stable of okay RBs.

[Royale with Cheese]

15 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Dallas' defense is legitimately good.  They have a chance to be a top-5 unit if their young secondary players round into form and a secondary pass rusher steps up to complement Lawrence (looking at you, Taco).

 

I think it's because I just don't think Dak is that good...he's an above average overall QB.  

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Zeke will be out of shape.  First month injury coming. 

 

Poor Jerry.   If he was intent to waste this much money on his RB he should have done it a month ago.

Every decent player on the Cowboys should hold out.  They got Jerry by his wrinkly beanbag.  He is so desperate to win (which is awesome) but will cause some them to have some awful contracts.

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Every decent player on the Cowboys should hold out.  They got Jerry by his wrinkly beanbag.  He is so desperate to win (which is awesome) but will cause some them to have some awful contracts.

Hahaha. Yeah, zeke got exactly what he wanted. A month long vacation in Mexico, no camp grind, fresh legs for the season, and all the cash. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

Hahaha. Yeah, zeke got exactly what he wanted. A month long vacation in Mexico, no camp grind, fresh legs for the season, and all the cash. 

I believe this is called the Bruce Smith plan.  I wonder if the Cowboys are going to have someone babysit him like did with Dez.  

 

That said, Zeke is an awesome rb with hall if fame talent.  It’s amazing an ewok could be that good at football.

[thebandit27]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think it's because I just don't think Dak is that good...he's an above average overall QB.  

 

He was above average before they added Cooper; he was very good once Cooper was in the fold:

 

Dak before Cooper: 7 games, 128/206 (62.1%), 1,417 yards (6.88 YPA), 8 TDs, 4 INTs, 23 sacks for 135 yards, 87.38 passer rating

Dak with Cooper: 9 games, 228/320 (71.2%), 2,468 yards (7.71 YPA), 14 TDs, 4 INTs, 33 sacks for 212 yards, 102.97 passer rating

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

He was above average before they added Cooper; he was very good once Cooper was in the fold:

 

Dak before Cooper: 7 games, 128/206 (62.1%), 1,417 yards (6.88 YPA), 8 TDs, 4 INTs, 23 sacks for 135 yards, 87.38 passer rating

Dak with Cooper: 9 games, 228/320 (71.2%), 2,468 yards (7.71 YPA), 14 TDs, 4 INTs, 33 sacks for 212 yards, 102.97 passer rating

 

Lets do a friendly bet.

 

$5 towards something BillsMafia is raising money for at some point in the season.  9.5 and you'll take the over...me under.

[HappyDays]

22 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

They can actually.

 

Zeke's extension most likely helps their 2020 cap situation by lowering his cap hit from the 5th year option number of $9.1M.

 

Good post. I question the above but I'm really not sure. You think they're kicking most of his money a couple years down the road?

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Good post. I question the above but I'm really not sure. You think they're kicking most of his money a couple years down the road?

 

That's what I would do. Dak and Cooper don't have cap figures for 2020, so their deals can only raise the teams cap commitment, whereas Zeke's deal can lower it 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

40 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

They can actually.

 

Zeke's extension most likely helps their 2020 cap situation by lowering his cap hit from the 5th year option number of $9.1M.

 

Even with La'el Collins' new deal and Zeke's option number, the Cowboys have only $133M committed to the 2020 cap.  If you assume the cap is ~$200M, then they'd have $67M in space.  Easy enough to afford Cooper on a market-value contract; figure $18M AAV.  Even if they absorb $20M of that in year 1 (which they probably won't), they'd still have $47M in cap space.  If you assume that they tag Dak, then they'll be down to about $22M in cap space.

 

The problem for them is that--with Cooper signed and Dak tagged--they'd have only 40 players under contract, so they'd have to be judicious about how they fill their last 13 roster spots.  Obviously 4-5 of those can come from the draft, so it's really going to be a question of how they handle their bottom 9-10 on the roster.

 

Of course, none of that takes into account cap savings (or open roster spots) from letting go of overpriced vets like Tyrone Crawford and Cam Fleming, which would save the team $12.5M in cap space.

 

Plus, they have Will McClay; the dude is as good as it gets when it comes to roster-building.

All this spending lately could get the Cowboys in trouble down the road. Over the last 5 months they've signed 4 players, all to 5 or 6 year contracts totaling $313M. I understand some of the back end of the contracts may never come to fruition, but they haven't signed Dak yet either. Let's say he gets around what Goff got and going with what Dallas has been doing this offseason it's a 5 year deal for ~$167.5M. That's 5 contracts totaling ~$480M over a 5-6 year span & they still would have to sign Cooper. Once they get him signed, 6 players will absorb about 50% of the cap space. On average that'll leave about $2M/yr per player to round out the roster. It doesn't leave much margin of error or any space if they hit on a few players and want to resign them.

Edited September 4, 2019 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[GunnerBill]

58 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Interesting.  I think they're a 9-7 team....bubble playoff team IMO.

I like the Saints first.  I think this is their year.

 

I think the Saints' year was last year. Chance missed.

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think the Saints' year was last year. Chance missed.

 

Chance ripped away by crappy officiating.

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

 

I think Zeke was overpaid on his rookie contract, much less the one he just signed. Was a stupid draft pick at the time and is a stupid signing now.

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I see what you did there @YoloinOhio, well played! However, doesn’t change the fact he’s still overpaid imho. If I can still get reasonably close to his production for a fraction of the cost, then why bother? Need to save my shekels for the QB and dominant D line! 

[T master]

21 hours ago, FUTURIST said:

The Cowboys overpaid,   Anyone who pays BIG money for a RB is insane.  

 

 

Any one who pays that kind of money for some one to play a game is insane !! Just saying ... 

 

Or they have more money than brains 

Edited September 4, 2019 by T master

[H2o]

7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

One of the top 3 RB's in the NFL which is why he got paid this way. Wait until McCaffrey and Barkley come up for new contracts. Can't wait to see the responses then. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

2 minutes ago, H2o said:

One of the top 3 RB's in the NFL which is why he got paid this way. Wait until McCaffrey and Barkley come up for new contracts. Can't wait to see the responses then. 

Hopefully the Panthers will be forced to trade McCaffrey to us and package in Kuechly while they are at it

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Fans get hooked on the 300 yard passing games, 300 yard passers were only 65-65-2 last year. Teams with 100 yard rushers were 84-26-1 last year and a whopping 49-9-1 through the first 11 weeks. The narrative is it's a pass first league, but the records for teams with 300 yard passers & 100 yard rushers say otherwise.

[DCOrange]

12 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Yeah, he can handle a lot of touches. That's cool and all, but I can get 3 RBs for far less money that can do that too. I'd take almost any other team's RB situation over the Cowboys, especially considering the OLine Dallas has.

3 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

Fans get hooked on the 300 yard passing games, 300 yard passers were only 65-65-2 last year. Teams with 100 yard rushers were 84-26-1 last year and a whopping 49-9-1 through the first 11 weeks. The narrative is it's a pass first league, but the records for teams with 300 yard passers & 100 yard rushers say otherwise.

 

Correlation =/= Causation. These stats are purely correlation. Teams only get 100 yard rushers these days when they're running the clock out with a lead. On the flipside, you're more likely to accrue more passing yards when you're playing catch up.

[YoloinOhio]

40 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I see what you did there @YoloinOhio, well played! However, doesn’t change the fact he’s still overpaid imho. If I can still get reasonably close to his production for a fraction of the cost, then why bother? Need to save my shekels for the QB and dominant D line! 

He is being paid his market value. I don’t think he’s overpaid. Whether or not a team believes his market value is aligned to his value to that team is a totally different story. In this case, the ‘Boys believe it is 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

32 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

Fans get hooked on the 300 yard passing games, 300 yard passers were only 65-65-2 last year. Teams with 100 yard rushers were 84-26-1 last year and a whopping 49-9-1 through the first 11 weeks. The narrative is it's a pass first league, but the records for teams with 300 yard passers & 100 yard rushers say otherwise.

 

Oooooh interesting stuff.  I wonder what the passing yards were for the 100 yard rusher games. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He is being paid his market value. I don’t think he’s overpaid. Whether or not a team believes his market value is aligned to his value to that team is a totally different story. In this case, the ‘Boys believe it is 

Fair enough—but it does seem to be a step back in time nonetheless. We’ll see how the money moves play out for them going forward. 

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Fair enough—but it does seem to be a step back in time nonetheless. We’ll see how the money moves play out for them going forward. 

Zeke is a tremendous receiver and blocker in addition to running the ball. He’s an all around offensive weapon, a true every down back. He’s the modern, new age RB, not a step back in time. 

[dbfla10]

With these contracts I feel the Cap is going to have to increase tremendously to keep up. I haven't Seen the actual real money on this contract, but at just 24yrs old this contract makes more sense than paying a 26-27 yr old Gordon. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

31 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Yeah, he can handle a lot of touches. That's cool and all, but I can get 3 RBs for far less money that can do that too. I'd take almost any other team's RB situation over the Cowboys, especially considering the OLine Dallas has.

 

Correlation =/= Causation. These stats are purely correlation. Teams only get 100 yard rushers these days when they're running the clock out with a lead. On the flipside, you're more likely to accrue more passing yards when you're playing catch up.

Maybe maybe not. It seems like you're just trying to throw everything neatly in a box and wrap it up with a bow. It's odd that it's the same QBs over & over though. Mahomes -10, Goff - 8, Luck - 8, Big Ben - 8, Ryan - 8, Brady - 7, Brees - 7. On the flip side, Zeke - 8, Gurley - 7, Barkley - 7, Michel - 6, Carson - 6. To say teams only get 100 yard rushers these days when running out the clock is short sighted. The top 10 teams in rushing totals nowadays are still pretty much even to the early 2000s(That's as far back as I could go at the moment).

[NoHuddleKelly12]

16 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Zeke is a tremendous receiver and blocker in addition to running the ball. He’s an all around offensive weapon, a true every down back. He’s the modern, new age RB, not a step back in time. 

Yes, but is that alone enough to justify such a large cap hit as part of the whole? Just asking. Here’s a deeper dive into the production numbers FWIW:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ezekiel-elliott-is-not-worth-the-money-he-wants/

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Yes, but is that alone enough to justify such a large cap hit as part of the whole? Just asking. Here’s a deeper dive into the production numbers FWIW:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ezekiel-elliott-is-not-worth-the-money-he-wants/

In their case, it is. He’s the straw that stirs the drink of that offense.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

he got his money. I guess you can throw out the old cliche' that rb's are a dime a dozen...

[MAJBobby]

2 hours ago, Sunshower said:

We made the playoffs with him. I’d suggest that if you have a great QB, a RB is less important. If you have no QB, a great RB is necessary. I feel those two realities are on a sliding scale that goes up and down depending on the competency of your QB. Even a game manager such as Dak or Dalton may need more oomph at RB to be successful, while Rodgers or Brady would be fine with a stable of okay RBs.

 

Thanks you Cincy for Passing the ball to gt us in the playoffs.

 

Never pay a RB, I repeat NEVER pay a RB 

[Victory Formation]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Thanks you Cincy for Passing the ball to gt us in the playoffs.

 

Never pay a RB, I repeat NEVER pay a RB 

That’s a weak case, Bobby.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Sunshower said:

That’s a weak case, Bobby.

 

Is it?

 

How Many SBs have Dallas won with this Dominate RB, and best OL in the league that ANY RB can perform behind?

What about Minny in the last generational Talent RB in Peterson?

Edited September 4, 2019 by MAJBobby

[Victory Formation]

8 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Is it?

 

How Many SBs have Dallas won with this Dominate RB, and best OL in the league that ANY RB can perform behind?

What about Minny in the last generational Talent RB in Peterson?

Elite RBs have been part of a many of Super Bowl teams. Chicken or egg? I think more is more. If Singletary turns into a dominant back, sign him.

 

The better the QB, the less dire the need of a superstar RB, but also the less dire the need of a superstar #1 WR or an all star OL or a Legion of Boom defense. You build a team with what ya got. A superstar QB mitigates just about every weak positional group on the entire team, but football is still a team sport, except each team may be structured differently depending on what resources are available in FA and how many hits ya get in the draft.