Offensive Line by Committee? Chris Brown obtained my permission to run with the idea. #Versatility #FergyHasSpoken

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

......OL needs to jell as a unit, learning each other's tendencies, etc......Cowher said it is THE most important UNIT on the football field (ie. ALL on the same page)...."if it fails as a unit, everything else fails"...."plug 'n play defeats the "unit theory" IMO....

 

They would jell, since they're all still going to be on the field.  Still a unit.  Just versatile.

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, BringBackFergy said:

Bolding your text doesn’t make your post any more meaningful. In fact, some might argue there is an underlying sense of jealousy in your indignation. 

Sorry, next time i wont bold it.

 

And how in the world you think i am somehow jealous of your post is even beyond absurd.

[BringBackFergy]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

They would jell, since they're all still going to be on the field.  Still a unit.  Just versatile.

Thanks. I’ve been trying to say this in too many words. Sometimes the simplest concepts are difficult to convey when people are close-minded. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

9 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

They would jell, since they're all still going to be on the field.  Still a unit.  Just versatile.

 

Is this a massive troll job?

 

 No it would lead to mass confusion, continually missed assignments, not playing to each players strengths.

 

I want my O Lineman to know who is next to them at all times, know what to expect from them and know their assignment with as little "thinking"  as possible. Can you imagine going from tackle one play to guard the next, in the middle of the play you forget you switched position?  Do i pick up the blitzer, what gap do i cover, who picks up the stunt, will i have help on this play or do i need to help?

It would be utter chaos.

Edited June 7, 2019 by RoyBatty is alive

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Is this a massive troll job?

 

 No it would lead to mass confusion, continually missed assignments, not playing to each players strengths.

 

I want my O Lineman to know who is next to them at all times, know what to expect from them and know their assignment with as little "thinking"  as possible. Can you imagine going from tackle one play to guard the next, in the middle of the play you forget you switched position?  Do i pick up the blitzer, what gap do i cover, who picks up the stunt, will i have help on this play or do i need to help?

It would be utter chaos.

 

I agree nearly 100%.  But I don't see how some versatility and different look could be harmful.  I can see doing something like that could effectively keep an opposing D on their toes.

[Billzfan23]

Why not change out the tight end with receivers, receivers with tight ends, and hell - let's have the QB run the ball and the back throw.

[BringBackFergy]

2 minutes ago, Billzfan23 said:

Why not change out the tight end with receivers, receivers with tight ends, and hell - let's have the QB run the ball and the back throw.

That has already been done. So why not take innovation one step further and use your O lineman as weapons rather than concrete pillars. Move them around and you’re no longer playing checkers, you’re winning at chess. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

31 minutes ago, OJ Tom said:

 

Well, if BILL COWHER said it....

...if the subject became a consideration, just my opinion that you'd have to do it in tandems....ie. LT/LG pair working together and same for right side....so perhaps substituting in pairs (sounds asinine)......only reason I bring it up is that Holmgren called Shell/Upshaw & Hutch/Jones "legendary"...hence pairs....

[Shaw66]

Why stop at the offensive line?  On first down on the second series, Shady will play left guard and Zay Jones will be the quarterback.  Morse will split wide to the right, and Ed Oliver will be the running back.   The defense will be so confused that they won't notice Zay handing off to Star, who will exploit a huge hole opened by Poyer at right guard, break a tackle and outrun the entire defensive backfield for a 92-yard touchdown. 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Shaw66

[Mike in Horseheads]

I have to say the OP is a visionary of innovation. Too bad some people are just set in their ways.

[CowgirlsFan]

Good stuff here .

 

I vote for whatever makes the Bills less predictable 

 

Apparently it's working for my Texas Rangers, currently tied for the second Wild Card.

 

Being too predictable was quickly noticed by the new coaches that were recently hired.

[ComradeKayAdams]

This is an idea that Rex Ryan would have loved: make everything so complicated for the opposing team that even your own team probably won't be able to figure it out. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 minutes ago, CowgirlsFan said:

Good stuff here .

 

I vote for whatever makes the Bills less predictable 

 

Apparently it's working for my Texas Rangers, currently tied for the second Wild Card.

 

Being too predictable was quickly noticed by the new coaches that were recently hired.

 

...why muddy the waters?....the OL has been UNpredictable (probably to THEMSELVES..) for years...start with a "starting five UNIT" all on the same page before getting "creative" IMO....

Edited June 7, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[BuffaloBill]

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Geeeze BBF... now that you’ve advertised it every one will know and prepare for it...

 

*sigh*

 

Element of surprise.... gone.... 

 

 

Yes, I am sure all of the NFL coaching staffs regularly read here to see what they can do to improve their teams.

[Capco]

Fwiw, the Pats regularly play musical chairs with their offensive line and still manage to perform at a high level.

[RoyBatty is alive]

42 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I agree nearly 100%.  But I don't see how some versatility and different look could be harmful.  I can see doing something like that could effectively keep an opposing D on their toes.

Versatility, absolutely, for emergencies so you let a tackle play half a preseason at guard, let some guards play center, some guards swing to tackle depending upon skill set and body type.

[BringBackFergy]

12 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Yes, I am sure all of the NFL coaching staffs regularly read here to see what they can do to improve their teams.

Watch and see. The “K Gun” wasn’t named after Keith McKeller. It actually originated from a poster named “KapGun” who came up with the idea on an old Bills internet forum in the late 80’s. 

5 minutes ago, Capco said:

Fwiw, the Pats regularly play musical chairs with their offensive line and still manage to perform at a high level.

The Hoodie hasn’t even considered this “interchangeability” that McDermott is building. He will soon adopt it, however, after he witnesses it firsthand. 

[Figster]

27 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...why muddy the waters?....the OL has been UNpredictable (probably to THEMSELVES..) for years...start with a "starting five UNIT" all on the same page before getting "creative" IMO....

How about more predictable as in providing good pass protection.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, Figster said:

How about more predictable as in providing good pass protection.

 

...great call 'Fig......how about staunch OL fundamentals before getting cute?.......OL juggling will keep the opposing D on their heels?....seriously?.....leave "on their heels" to Daboll and company where multiple offensive variations can be more effective......a DC is going to fear OL line juggling?...hmmm....WE should fear it...

Edited June 7, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[BringBackFergy]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...great call 'Fig......how about staunch OL fundamentals before getting cute?.......OL juggling will keep the opposing D on their heels?....seriously?.....leave "on their heels" to Daboll and company where multiple offensive variations can be more effective......a DC is going to fear OL line juggling?...hmmm....WE should fear it...

I forgot who said it (I think it was Sun Sue). “Change for the sake of change is no greater than surprise for the sake of victory. Both can be used to dominate your opponent in battle”. Think about that for a second. 

[Juice_32]

It sounded like a decent idea, until you got to the “for example” part of the post. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

12 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

I forgot who said it (I think it was Sun Sue). “Change for the sake of change is no greater than surprise for the sake of victory. Both can be used to dominate your opponent in battle”. Think about that for a second. 

 

 

...hmmm... kinda like "today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday" I presume............

[Chandler#81]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

A very imaginative idea but it flies in the face of all that is known about O line play.

Yes it does. That’s why I like it. We’ve already had a report on this thread, but I think Fergy is right. In addition to his list of proven defensive swaps, CBs interchange with S, QBs & RBs interchange with WRs, PKs Punt. The last bastion of football purity is OL and with it comes the blind, ignorant defiance of possible success. ‘Ya don’t know whatcha don’t know’. Seemingly forever we’ve been schooled that OL needs time -YEARS in fact- to “Gel”. I say Poppycock, Balderdash & Bullshart! Indy’s crappy OL jumped to one of the finest last year for 3reasons: a couple new players, return of a great QB and better coaching. Do we not have this? If all OL sit in on opponent film study and can quickly adapt to the strategy that they'll employ this week (newsflash: they do!), coupled with experience playing different positions successfully, then I say Re-write the “rules”. The “rules”, btw, are a decades-long snow job that began with Lombardi’s Packers. ‘If they can win 5 titles in 7 years with the same OL, that Must be how it’s done!’  ?

 

I’m with ya, Fergy, and I’ll remind everybody it was Your Idea.

 

Edit: but leave Morse a Center

Edited June 7, 2019 by Chandler#81

[formerlyofCtown]

An offensive line is not like a RB.  5 men must work together in unison.  They need continuity to do so.

 

So not a good idea.

1 hour ago, CowgirlsFan said:

Good stuff here .

 

I vote for whatever makes the Bills less predictable 

 

Apparently it's working for my Texas Rangers, currently tied for the second Wild Card.

 

Being too predictable was quickly noticed by the new coaches that were recently hired.

I like what works for my Yankees.  Very good depth.

[Just Joshin']

1 hour ago, Capco said:

Fwiw, the Pats regularly play musical chairs with their offensive line and still manage to perform at a high level.

So they have changed the players every play.  I guess I missed that........

[oldmanfan]

11 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Yes it does. That’s why I like it. We’ve already had a report on this thread, but I think Fergy is right. In addition to his list of proven defensive swaps, CBs interchange with S, QBs & RBs interchange with WRs, PKs Punt. The last bastion of football purity is OL and with it comes the blind, ignorant defiance of possible success. ‘Ya don’t know whatcha don’t know’. Seemingly forever we’ve been schooled that OL needs time -YEARS in fact- to “Gel”. I say Poppycock, Balderdash & Bullshart! Indy’s crappy OL jumped to one of the finest last year for 3reasons: a couple new players, return of a great QB and better coaching. Do we not have this? If all OL sit in on opponent film study and can quickly adapt to the strategy that they'll employ this week (newsflash: they do!), coupled with experience playing different positions successfully, then I say Re-write the “rules”. The “rules”, btw, are a decades-long snow job that began with Lombardi’s Packers. ‘If they can win 5 titles in 7 years with the same OL, that Must be how it’s done!’  ?

 

I’m with ya, Fergy, and I’ll remind everybody it was Your Idea.

 

Edit: but leave Morse a Center

Indy's line didn't switch guys all around though.

[Prickly Pete]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...if the subject became a consideration, just my opinion that you'd have to do it in tandems....ie. LT/LG pair working together and same for right side....so perhaps substituting in pairs (sounds asinine)......only reason I bring it up is that Holmgren called Shell/Upshaw & Hutch/Jones "legendary"...hence pairs....

 

 

I just don't think there is much to be gained

[K-9]

5 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

I know you are probably thinking there's a link to a profound article in this post, but NO. I came up with his idea all on my own. Watch how the football experts like ESPN, ProFootball Talk and Yahoo will pick up on this and run with it.  You guys just remember that old Fergy was the first to recognize the clear goal of our head coach: He is building an 5  cylinder engine on the O Line with pistons firing from different positions at all different times.

 

Here's what I mean:

 

What is McDermott's #1 goal in finding a suitable Offensive lineman??  ANSWER: Versatility

 

We have tackles that have played guard. We have guards that have played center. We have guards who played tackle. Shoot, we even had a TE who played tackle.  The point is, all through OTA's and minicamp, we have seen a variety of players playing at different spots.  Where else do we see this? On the defensive line of course.  DT's move to outside, DT's drop back, DE's move inside, DE/Linebackers move inside, etc.  So why not incorporate the movement and versatility of Offensive linemen in the same manner?

 

For example:  On 1st and 10, Morse lines up at center, Dawkins at Left Tackle, Feliciano at left Guard, Ford at right Guard and Nyseke at right Tackle. We gain 4 yards on a run play.  On 2nd and 6, we break huddle and Feliciano take the Center position, Dawkins moves to right Guard (his position for years) , Ford moves to right Tackle, Morse takes left Guard and Nyseke moves over to left Tackle.  The defensive ends and DT's will wonder what the hell is going on because most of them have studied film on the individual designated at that spot in front of them.  The versatility will throw them off.  Every great offense has to be innovative. 

 

In addition, versatility allows McDermott to create a stable of 8 O-lineman who can play all different positions.  Just like McDermott cycles D lineman in to keep them fresh, he will substitute in O linemen or move them around the line every 3rd down or two to not only maintain "fresh legs" but to keep the defensive line guessing who they will be matched up against. It's a chess match, and McDermott is Bobby Fisher.

 

Keep an eye out. This is the wave of the future and McDermott will be the innovator.

I admire your innovative mind, BBF. Pay no attention to these mindless slaves to convention. They’d still outlaw the forward pass is they had their way. Backwards thinkers, the lot of them. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Yes, I am sure all of the NFL coaching staffs regularly read here to see what they can do to improve their teams.

 

Are you being sarcastic about my sarcasm or are you serious? 

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Why stop at the offensive line?  On first down on the second series, Shady will play left guard and Zay Jones will be the quarterback.  Morse will split wide to the right, and Ed Oliver will be the running back.   The defense will be so confused that they won't notice Zay handing off to Star, who will exploit a huge hole opened by Poyer at right guard, break a tackle and outrun the entire defensive backfield for a 92-yard touchdown. 

 

 

 

There are some rules against that otherwise Crayonz Fergy would have suggested that.

[BuffaloBill]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Are you being sarcastic about my sarcasm or are you serious? 

 

 

Is what you just said best read as a double negative?  If I am sarcastic about your sarcasm wouldn’t that by default make me serious?  You’ve created a conundrum that I do not know how to respond to.  It’s an absolutely brilliant chess move on your part and I am humbled by it.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Is what you just said best read as a double negative?  If I am sarcastic about your sarcasm wouldn’t that by default make me serious?  You’ve created a conundrum that I do not know how to respond to.  It’s an absolutely brilliant chess move on your part and I am humbled by it.

 

Based on your humility I say we call it the BuffaloBill paradox? 

[CommonCents]

More chess in this thread than Baywatch.

 

Anyone up for a drink and a simple game of checkers? 

[BuffaloBill]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Based on your humility I say we call it the BuffaloBill paradox? 

 

 

Amen brother!!!!

[hemma]

Feliciano running the Wildcat?

I’m all in.

[Boca BIlls]

These threads remind me of Butchfromtheeastside....

[Augie]

I think somebody started their weekend a wee bit early! ??

 

 

 

.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Augie

[BringBackFergy]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Yes it does. That’s why I like it. We’ve already had a report on this thread, but I think Fergy is right. In addition to his list of proven defensive swaps, CBs interchange with S, QBs & RBs interchange with WRs, PKs Punt. The last bastion of football purity is OL and with it comes the blind, ignorant defiance of possible success. ‘Ya don’t know whatcha don’t know’. Seemingly forever we’ve been schooled that OL needs time -YEARS in fact- to “Gel”. I say Poppycock, Balderdash & Bullshart! Indy’s crappy OL jumped to one of the finest last year for 3reasons: a couple new players, return of a great QB and better coaching. Do we not have this? If all OL sit in on opponent film study and can quickly adapt to the strategy that they'll employ this week (newsflash: they do!), coupled with experience playing different positions successfully, then I say Re-write the “rules”. The “rules”, btw, are a decades-long snow job that began with Lombardi’s Packers. ‘If they can win 5 titles in 7 years with the same OL, that Must be how it’s done!’  ?

 

I’m with ya, Fergy, and I’ll remind everybody it was Your Idea.

 

Edit: but leave Morse a Center

I wish there were more open-minded members on this board.  Everyone laughed at Einstein and Newton when they came up with the apple dropping on the head thing. But where would we be if they didn’t think about it? 

 

Like you said,  every other position has been bastardized into RB/WR, S/CB, LB/DE. Yet some “traditionalists” insist the O line should not be mixed...as if they’re untouchable. Bull pucky!!!  The O linemen are some of the smartest dudes on the team. They know the playbook. They can learn a few new blocking schemes. After all, they make enough dough to justify a little movement. 

 

The element of surprise is underestimated. 

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

I think somebody started their weekend a wee but early! ??

 

 

Maybe last weekend never came to an end ?‍♂️

[BringBackFergy]

Just now, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Maybe last weekend never came to an end ?‍♂️

And you guys want to close TSW down for two hours after game days?? These types of ideas would be lost in  the black hole of slumbering/lost ingenuity.