Breaking: Kroft breaks foot

[uticaclub]

35 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Murphy got less than $8M guaranteed at signing.  He's tied for 44th in terms of AAV for EDGE defenders.

 

If that is one of the worst contracts in the NFL, then every GM is an absolute financial wizard in every sense of the term.

 

And he was ranked the 108th ranked EDGE defender on scout.com

[thebandit27]

6 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

And he was ranked the 108th ranked EDGE defender on scout.com

 

And that somehow makes it one of the worst contracts in the NFL?  You're reaching.

 

His $7.8M in guarantees doesn't even come close to being as bad as the 2018 FA contracts of guys like Ryan Jensen, Blake Bortles, TJ Carrie, Case Keenum, or several others in that FA period alone.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yeah...and?  Beane wants to build his team, not continue Whaleys team.  

 

Are you saying it was wrong of him to get rid of a guy on a $100 million dollar contract who is only a one dimensional player?

 

Keep Watkins, pay him as a #1 WR who has averaged 30 catches and about 500 yards receiving in the last 3 years?  Who still has foot issues?   That’s what Beane should have done?

Im saying he didn't inherit a cap mess. He caused it and threw away 2018 season.  

Its just a fact. Was it right or wrong will be decided in next couple of years based on Allen's performance and the rebuilt oline

[ndirish1978]

18 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Im saying he didn't inherit a cap mess. He caused it and threw away 2018 season.  

Its just a fact. Was it right or wrong will be decided in next couple of years based on Allen's performance and the rebuilt oline

 

You're basically saying nothing at all. You're just blaming Beane for not keeping players around that they didn't want in the building. "He caused it" means zero, you're just parroting what other posters on this board with actual points to make have said. Beane got rid of players that weren't team-first players with bloated contracts and ate the cap hit for it. You're acting like he's the first GM to ever do that. 

 

Dareus since being traded - 2 sacks and 41 tackles in 1 2/3 seasons. Sammy hasn't broken 600 yds in a single season since leaving. What exactly is your point? That we took a knee on last year to reset the roster? How is this going to be proven "right or wrong?" Nonsensical ridiculousness like these posts are a waste of time. You have a non-opinion. 

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by ndirish1978

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yeah...and?  Beane wants to build his team, not continue Whaleys team.  

 

Are you saying it was wrong of him to get rid of a guy on a $100 million dollar contract who is only a one dimensional player?

 

Keep Watkins, pay him as a #1 WR who has averaged 30 catches and about 500 yards receiving in the last 3 years?  Who still has foot issues?   That’s what Beane should have done?

 

I like that reply.  Clean, concise and only one sentence long.

That being said, I don't think you will convince some people to believe that that is the basis of the process.

It's not about "a player" it's about "their player".

[teef]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

Realists? Who has a worse contract? Murphy was a product of PEDs and Star is one dimensional who is on the field less than 50% of the defensive snaps. 

no...no, no, no.  that's not who you or many other are, as much as you'd like to think that. 

[uticaclub]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

And that somehow makes it one of the worst contracts in the NFL?  You're reaching.

 

His $7.8M in guarantees doesn't even come close to being as bad as the 2018 FA contracts of guys like Ryan Jensen, Blake Bortles, TJ Carrie, Case Keenum, or several others in that FA period alone.

Bortles & Keenum were QBs that led teams to the conference championships the year before, Jensen & Carrie were fairly solid given their positions, you are just naming names. Murphy was outperformed by several undrafted rookies 

[CuddyDark]

5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We haven't been in cap hell for the last 20 years.  Not even close to it. 

 

All of them huh?  

 

John Dorsey took over the Browns in December of 2017 and for the 2018 offseason....drum roll please....$110 million in cap space.  

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2018/2/24/17049398/cleveland-browns-set-to-have-about-110-64-million-in-cap-space

There are several more GM's that didn't inherit cap hell.

 

The first year Beane took over, we had $50 million in dead cap.  Now that we had cap space this year, we signed over a dozen free agents.  

Dorsey took over the Bills?

5 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

"Excuses" is usually code for "I am unhappy but too lazy to think" 

And name calling is usually code for "I don't have a real argument so I'll damn the messenger."

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...probably missed it, but wasn't he out last year with a broken foot?...if so, same one?..............

[thebandit27]

18 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Bortles & Keenum were QBs that led teams to the conference championships the year before, Jensen & Carrie were fairly solid given their positions, you are just naming names. Murphy was outperformed by several undrafted rookies 

 

So let me get this straight: Trent Murphy's $7.8M in guaranteed money over 3 years is a worst contract than...

 

Blake Bortles getting $26.5M in guarantees and getting benched for Cody Kessler;

Case Keenum getting $25M in guarantees, going 6-10 as a starter, throwing 18 TDs:15 INTs, and getting traded for a 6th round pick in 2020;

Ryan Jensen getting $22M in guarantees and drawing a lower overall grade than Russell Bodine, who got a contract with a total value of 16% of Jensen's guaranteed money;

TJ Carrie getting $15.5M in guarantees and total AAV that ranked in the top 20, and getting replaced as a starter halfway through the season;

 

That's your case? Well, it's a terrible case that I'm pretty sure even you know is massive hyperbole at this point, but go right ahead if you feel that you need to die on this hill.

 

I mean, if being outperformed by an UDFA is the criteria for worst contract in the NFL, then what about the following guys that were outperformed by Robert Foster?

 

Pierre Garcon

Greg Olsen

DeVante Parker

Marquise Goodwin

Cordarelle Patterson

 

Where's the intellectual consistency?

Edited May 22, 2019 by thebandit27

[Ethan in Cleveland]

45 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

You're basically saying nothing at all. You're just blaming Beane for not keeping players around that they didn't want in the building. "He caused it" means zero, you're just parroting what other posters on this board with actual points to make have said. Beane got rid of players that weren't team-first players with bloated contracts and ate the cap hit for it. You're acting like he's the first GM to ever do that. 

 

Dareus since being traded - 2 sacks and 41 tackles in 1 2/3 seasons. Sammy hasn't broken 600 yds in a single season since leaving. What exactly is your point? That we took a knee on last year to reset the roster? How is this going to be proven "right or wrong?" Nonsensical ridiculousness like these posts are a waste of time. You have a non-opinion. 

 

You are correct I have a non-opinon. That is why it is called facts.

You are completely missing the point. I agree Beane's decisions are reasonable decisions that other GMs make. You can argue their merit, but I've moved on from that.

But you can not say Beane inherited the dead cap money. It's just not true no matter how hard you want to believe it.  

[CuddyDark]

6 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

If we don't see him coming back for next year - his contract is easy to get out of next year.  This is good news for guys like dimarco, croom, sweeney, and fisher.  With Smith and knox likely already penciled in on the roster pending trades/cuts.

 

If knox/smith show up and are solid - he can be cut next year very easily.  If not, we have him as an option next year to compete.

 

Do we know the timeline on the injury?

 

Well, we put ourselves there by eating a ton of dead cap the last 2 years.  But most GM's who came in were unwilling to do that so they'd just compound the issue by pushing deals out.  A rebuild starts with a tear down usually.

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/pages/2001-salary-cap-prison

"Donahoe inherited a team $5M over the salary cap and major changes were needed." Beane's team was not over the Cap.

 

 

5 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...probably missed it, but wasn't he out last year with a broken foot?...if so, same one?..............

Yes and yes.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, CuddyDark said:

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/pages/2001-salary-cap-prison

"Donahoe inherited a team $5M over the salary cap and major changes were needed." Beane's team was not over the Cap.

 

 

Yes and yes.

...thanks bud...much appreciated.....

[CuddyDark]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Murphy got less than $8M guaranteed at signing.  He's tied for 44th in terms of AAV for EDGE defenders.

 

If that is one of the worst contracts in the NFL, then every GM is an absolute financial wizard in every sense of the term.

 

He's a bum. He should be paid 65th. LMAO. Even I laughed at this reply. But so what. He's a bum. He's a backup.

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

He's a bum. He should be paid 65th. LMAO. Even I laughed at this reply. But so what. He's a bum. He's a backup.

 

Well, he's unlikely to be a backup for this team.  And the point was simply that the other poster's statement was massively hyperbolic.

[Royale with Cheese]

31 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

Dorsey took over the Bills?

And name calling is usually code for "I don't have a real argument so I'll damn the messenger."

 

Well since you said every GM, I thought you meant every GM.

 

Well since we are just staying with the Bills...in 2009 when Buddy Nix took over the Bills we had $98 million in cap space.

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-2009-02-11-0902120020-story.html

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Well since you said every GM, I thought you meant every GM.

 

Well since we are just staying with the Bills...in 2009 when Buddy Nix took over the Bills we had $98 million in cap space.

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-2009-02-11-0902120020-story.html

 

 

..BUT...we also had Buddy...........

[ndirish1978]

40 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

You are correct I have a non-opinon. That is why it is called facts.

You are completely missing the point. I agree Beane's decisions are reasonable decisions that other GMs make. You can argue their merit, but I've moved on from that.

But you can not say Beane inherited the dead cap money. It's just not true no matter how hard you want to believe it.  

 

Your point with that fact being what? 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Im saying he didn't inherit a cap mess. He caused it and threw away 2018 season.  

Its just a fact. Was it right or wrong will be decided in next couple of years based on Allen's performance and the rebuilt oline

 

I see your point.

However I think it can be argued that Dareus’s play since signing the contract put us in that cap hell.  He was once a 2 dimensional force and then became basically a Vince Wilfork after that.  You can’t pay that guy nearly $100 million.

 

Watkins as talented as he is...hasn’t had the production and keeps having foot issues.  I believe Gruden stated in a MNF telecast that McVay’s reason for not resigning Watkins was because he was one dimensional.  They went with Cooks instead.  Also Watkins admitted that he probably rubbed people the wrong way in the locker room because of his selfish nature.  

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 hour ago, CuddyDark said:

Dorsey took over the Bills?

And name calling is usually code for "I don't have a real argument so I'll damn the messenger."

 

It's your argument, you aren't just the "messenger." 

 

Sounds like excuses literally lets you ignore all context and argument and be critical of whatever shortcoming their may be. It is literally refusing to make a real argument. 

[YoloinOhio]

5 hours ago, uticaclub said:

Realists? Who has a worse contract? Murphy was a product of PEDs and Star is one dimensional who is on the field less than 50% of the defensive snaps. 

Star one dimensional? No. He was on the field more than any other interior DLineman on the Bills last year except for Kyle, the percentage of snaps is because their defense utilizes a rotation on the interior.  Because he can play NT or DT, he’s the key to them being able to play multiple fronts without substituting. He allows them to play a 4-2-5 or a 3-3-5. He has the athletic talent to play inside or outside in a 3-4. He’s a disruptive force and a load to block. 

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Star one dimensional? No. He was on the field more than any other interior DLineman on the Bills last year except for Kyle, the percentage of snaps is because their defense utilizes a rotation on the interior.  Because he can play NT or DT, he’s the key to them being able to play multiple fronts without substituting. He allows them to play a 4-2-5 or a 3-3-5. He has the athletic talent to play inside or outside in a 3-4. He’s a disruptive force and a load to block. 

 

I feel like you may be stretching how dynamic he is a little bit

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Star one dimensional? No. He was on the field more than any other interior DLineman on the Bills last year except for Kyle, the percentage of snaps is because their defense utilizes a rotation on the interior.  Because he can play NT or DT, he’s the key to them being able to play multiple fronts without substituting. He allows them to play a 4-2-5 or a 3-3-5. He has the athletic talent to play inside or outside in a 3-4. He’s a disruptive force and a load to block. 

Star is disruptive and athletic? I like you're takes Yolo, but I gotta disagree there. I've been told numerous times that he's vital to the defense so I'm sure he's better than what I see. But disruptive and athletic are not words I attribute to a guy that doesn't make ANY plays.

[YoloinOhio]

37 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Star is disruptive and athletic? I like you're takes Yolo, but I gotta disagree there. I've been told numerous times that he's vital to the defense so I'm sure he's better than what I see. But disruptive and athletic are not words I attribute to a guy that doesn't make ANY plays.

[WideNine]

28 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Star is disruptive and athletic? I like you're takes Yolo, but I gotta disagree there. I've been told numerous times that he's vital to the defense so I'm sure he's better than what I see. But disruptive and athletic are not words I attribute to a guy that doesn't make ANY plays.

 

Star drew a lot of double-teams last year which in theory should have allowed our other defensive linemen and linebackers to get upfield and be more disruptive.

 

I don't think that happened enough, and that our defensive line struggled and definitely could be pushed around by good running teams. I have a hard time faulting a guy that other teams felt they have to account for with a guard and center, but I also do not think of Star as that explosive first step disruptive kind of player either. He strikes me more as a guy that can do exactly what he does, occupy two blockers without giving up too much ground.

 

My hope is that Ed Oliver is that gap-shooting disruptive force that can get behind blocks to produce more TFLs behind the LOS. 

[LSHMEAB]

Just now, WideNine said:

 

 

My hope is that Ed Oliver is that gap-shooting disruptive force that can get behind blocks to produce more TFLs behind the LOS. 

I have very high hopes for Oliver. Loved the pick and believe he's going to be the most impactful defensive player in the draft. I've beaten the Star horse to death. I'm not a big fan. But having a guy occupying blockers will certainly help EO. 

[BADOLBILZ]

11 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

I feel like you may be stretching how dynamic he is a little bit

 

 

Yeah that's a pretty bold take for a guy who made one TFL and zero QB hits last year.

 

He looked like he was running in quicksand all season....... the opposite of dynamic.  

 

His best ability is durability at this point.    Hopefully he at least bounces back to his 2017 Carolina level but not counting on it. 

Edited May 23, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah that's a pretty bold take for a guy who made one TFL and zero QB hits last year.

 

He looked like he was running in quicksand all season....... the opposite of dynamic.  

 

His best ability is durability at this point.    Hopefully he at least bounces back to his 2017 Carolina level but not counting on it. 

 

He looks like tub of lard. Now I know NT are rarely the most chiselled players on the field but my word. Star just looks like a fat man.

[SmokinES3]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Just because he's on the field a lot doesn't mean he's good.

There does tend to be a correlation 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

18 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/pages/2001-salary-cap-prison

"Donahoe inherited a team $5M over the salary cap and major changes were needed." Beane's team was not over the Cap.

 

 

Yes and yes.

 

They weren't over the cap - they also weren't going to make any noise and had no QB.

[TheBeaneBandit]

Another Star myth is he constantly requires double teams. Shaq Mason from NE pretty much handles him one on one with ease all day. Im sure Mason isnt the only one as well. Id honestly say at least half the teams in the league feel more than comfortable putting just one guy on him.

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Another Star myth is he constantly requires double teams. Shaq Mason from NE pretty much handles him one on one with ease all day. Im sure Mason isnt the only one as well. Id honestly say at least half the teams in the league feel more than comfortable putting just one guy on him.

 

I believe that "All 22" did a Star review, and he was taking on double teams with the games they featured.

 

Just a guess, but perhaps some teams that ran well on us like NE figured they could handle Star with a single blocker which allowed them to do more pulling and ISO blocks to spring their RBs. 

 

Expectations are high with Star considering the money - I get it.

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by WideNine

[thebandit27]

2 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Another Star myth is he constantly requires double teams. Shaq Mason from NE pretty much handles him one on one with ease all day. Im sure Mason isnt the only one as well. Id honestly say at least half the teams in the league feel more than comfortable putting just one guy on him.

 

You may want to revisit the film on that one...

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/12/27/18155883/all-22-analysis-where-was-star-lotulelei-run-stuffing-defensive-tackle-vs-new-england-patriots

 

I haven't seen any hard data regarding the percentage of snaps on which he's double-teamed, but several outlets reported that he was the most-often double-teamed player for the Bills in 2018.

https://therunnersports.com/is-star-lotulelei-worth-his-contract/

 

[Rc2catch]

When did this become the star thread? 

Not sure what everyone expected, he wasn’t elite in Carolina, he was overpaid but so what? 

Do any of us know what he does in the locker room? Practice field? Film room? Did they pay for production or process stuff? Same reason Tolbert floated here as long as he did. McDermott likes to have his guys in the locker room setting the example for others. And they’ve rewarded those kind of players. Every team needs role players and guys who know their stuff. Maybe Star is a future coach in the making. Maybe he works insanely hard off the field. We don’t know. Everyone can agree he was overpaid and production didn’t match the money. Oh well you can find 2-3 guys on every single team in the league who overpaid in free agency and the numbers never matched the salary. Star has been beaten to death on here and it didn’t hurt the team one bit or stop them from making any of the moves they wanted. Same for Murphy. 

[CuddyDark]

22 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Well since you said every GM, I thought you meant every GM.

 

Well since we are just staying with the Bills...in 2009 when Buddy Nix took over the Bills we had $98 million in cap space.

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-2009-02-11-0902120020-story.html

 

I don't think that's right.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80ef32d2/printable/bills-release-g-dockery-te-royal-to-free-up-salarycap-space

[CuddyDark]

22 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

It's your argument, you aren't just the "messenger." 

 

Sounds like excuses literally lets you ignore all context and argument and be critical of whatever shortcoming their may be. It is literally refusing to make a real argument. 

Actually it wasn't my argument. It was my defense of his argument. Also context depends on the viewpoint. I see show me the baby, not it could have been or we did this or understand we couldn't. It is or it ain't. So far in free agency it ain't. Now that's my argument.

4 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

They weren't over the cap - they also weren't going to make any noise and had no QB.

What Bills team in the last 20 years had a QB? What GM came in with a winning QB? These are excuses. Can Beane get it done? So far in free agency I'd say he hasn't.

[uticaclub]

2 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

I believe that "All 22" did a Star review, and he was taking on double teams with the games they featured.

 

Just a guess, but perhaps some teams that ran well on us like NE figured they could handle Star with a single blocker which allowed them to do more pulling and ISO blocks to spring their RBs. 

 

Expectations are high with Star considering the money - I get it.

 

 

 

Didn't they run for like 300 yards that game

[WideNine]

55 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Didn't they run for like 300 yards that game

 

Folks get all comfy with our #2 overall defense, but yeah NE did a good job of running the ball down our throats.

 

Once the defense committed everyone they could into the box to try to stop bleeding yards, NE was able to sneak guys like Edelman and Gronk behind them with play action for long gainers as the game wore on.

 

Was a tough game to watch our team from either side of the ball.

 

Also one of those games where we were all pretty critical with how flat-footed Edmunds was against the run from his Mike position, anticipating and filling the right gaps.

 

Edmunds is a freak athlete who can cover a lot of ground in a hurry defending against passes and dropping into zones, but coming up to fill against the run seemed to be a concerning gap in his game.

 

His recognition and reaction to attack the right gaps in run defense seemed to improve as the season progressed. Hoping that trend continues.

 

 

 

 

 

[uticaclub]

35 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Folks get all comfy with our #2 overall defense, but yeah NE did a good job of running the ball down our throats.

 

Once the defense committed everyone they could into the box to try to stop bleeding yards, NE was able to sneak guys like Edelman and Gronk behind them with play action for long gainers as the game wore on.

 

Was a tough game to watch our team from either side of the ball.

 

Also one of those games where we were all pretty critical with how flat-footed Edmunds was against the run from his Mike position, anticipating and filling the right gaps.

 

Edmunds is a freak athlete who can cover a lot of ground in a hurry defending against passes and dropping into zones, but coming up to fill against the run seemed to be a concerning gap in his game.

 

His recognition and reaction to attack the right gaps in run defense seemed to improve as the season progressed. Hoping that trend continues.

 

 

 

 

 

I remember watching that game and just realizing how many light years ahead Belichick was from McDermott from a game planning aspect. Completely just outclassed that game.

 

Yea our defense being ranked #2 is the definition of stats lying

[Royale with Cheese]

3 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

I don't think that's right.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d80ef32d2/printable/bills-release-g-dockery-te-royal-to-free-up-salarycap-space

 

Point out where it says in this article that the Bills are in cap hell.  Or mention anything close to it.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Royale with Cheese