I now understand why the Bills passed on DK Metcalf

[K-9]

3 hours ago, NJKBillsfan said:

You could say that about any draft pick though.

 

Why did Oliver fall to 9?

 

Why did Ford not go higher?

 

 

Oliver fell to 9 because the Raiders and Giants made unexpected picks at 4 and 6. 

[SloanBillsFan]

Not being rabidly fluent about all the different potential draftees I spent about 4 minutes really fired up about Metcalf and thought for sure the Bills would ***** him up if he was available at #9. 

 

Then I read more about him and the reality of it sank in. 

 

Not saying anything bad about him. Not at all. I grew up in Mississippi and was an Ole Miss fan (in that if someone asked me "Rebels or Bulldogs" I would dutifully answer "Rebels"). But I understand what (& why) McBeane did (what they did). I wish DK all the best in Seattle. 

[Mr. WEO]

34 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Stiff hips bro 

 

Nobody here has any independent understanding of what that means

[SCBills]

51 minutes ago, mannc said:

If Metcalf can play, Seahawk fans will have a lot to look forward to, with Russell Wilson chucking the ball to him and Tyler Lockett.  I'm jealous...

 

Metcalf/Lockett is kind of similar to Foster/Brown....

 

For the record. I would’ve been on board with trading back into the late 2nd for DK.  

 

I just feel like we went from overhyping our dumpsterfire WR Unit last offseason to underhyping our current group that is a competent Zay Jones away from from having some potential.  

[Nihilarian]

So, what was DK Metcalf's specialty? His 4.33 speed? 

 

Weaknesses https://www.nfl.com/prospects/d.k.-metcalf?id=32194d45-5436-3377-5806-d2746f1b94aa

• Should rely on footwork and body positioning over arm-extension to clear the top of his route
• Rushes through pattern ingredients rather than developing their flavors as a route chef
• Gears it down a little when turning to locate the deep ball
• Fails to sell route fakes to manipulate his opponent
• Breaks and stems aren't as sharp as they could be
• Had separate season-ending injuries in 2016 (foot) and 2018 (neck)
• Suffered focus drops when working back to the ball
• Drop rate too high over last two seasons
• Needs better positioning of his big frame to block out defenders on comebacks

The Bills signed a WR with 4.34 speed and gave him a 3 year contract at 9 mill per, his name is John Brown (and he can run more then three routes). With Robert Foster, Zay Jones did they really need another deep speed WR or a Right tackle like Cody Ford to protect Josh Allen with those deep throws?

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Nihilarian

[starrymessenger]

12 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Metcalf/Lockett is kind of similar to Foster/Brown....

 

For the record. I would’ve been on board with trading back into the late 2nd for DK.  

 

I just feel like we went from overhyping our dumpsterfire WR Unit last offseason to underhyping our current group that is a competent Zay Jones away from from having some potential.  

 

I have by no means given up on Zay. It's not unusual for WRs to take a few years to transition. But I'm not sure that a competent Zay Jones would be what this WR corps needs in terms of receiver type. JuJu was that guy. Good chance AJ Brown was too. I'm hoping Duke Williams is a player. That's all we've got right now.

[Malazan]

10 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I always took it to mean that he has a bit extra motivation to prove a group of people wrong. Not that he is now motivated more, but it's just an extra goal I suppose. Sometimes that gives you a little extra push. 

 

"Extra Motivation" doesn't mean "motivated more"? "Extra goal"? Regardless of what terms you use, it's implying that the players has "more" to give in some way that they wouldn't have given if they didn't fall in the draft...which is ridiculous on several levels.

[MrEpsYtown]

5 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

"Extra Motivation" doesn't mean "motivated more"? "Extra goal"? Regardless of what terms you use, it's implying that the players has "more" to give in some way that they wouldn't have given if they didn't fall in the draft...which is ridiculous on several levels.

 

I dunno. I just think it is a mindset thing. When people doubt you, I think you get a little extra mustard in there. It isn't implying that he would hold anything back effort wise. I think it's a real thing. We can all agree to disagree. Motivated to do your best, but also motivated to prove some people wrong. It's an extra source of motivation. Bulletin board material etc. To me that's real, not a stupid sports cliche. Ask Tom Brady. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by MrEpsYtown

[The Senator]

39 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

So, what was DK Metcalf's specialty? His 4.33 speed? 

 

Weaknesses https://www.nfl.com/prospects/d.k.-metcalf?id=32194d45-5436-3377-5806-d2746f1b94aa

• Should rely on footwork and body positioning over arm-extension to clear the top of his route
• Rushes through pattern ingredients rather than developing their flavors as a route chef
• Gears it down a little when turning to locate the deep ball
• Fails to sell route fakes to manipulate his opponent
• Breaks and stems aren't as sharp as they could be
• Had separate season-ending injuries in 2016 (foot) and 2018 (neck)
• Suffered focus drops when working back to the ball
• Drop rate too high over last two seasons
• Needs better positioning of his big frame to block out defenders on comebacks

The Bills signed a WR with 4.34 speed and gave him a 3 year contract at 9 mill per, his name is John Brown (and he can run more then three routes). With Robert Foster, Zay Jones did they really need another deep speed WR or a Right tackle like Cody Ford to protect Josh Allen with those deep throws?

 

 

 

You just about covered it all. vis-a-vis Metcalf.  ??

 

(Only thing you omitted was inconsistent hands.)

 

EDIT: My bad, you did cover that.

.

Edited April 30, 2019 by The Senator

[Bob in STL]

12 hours ago, ngbills said:

Just because Beane didn’t draft a WR does not mean that he knows better than us or anyone else. It is just the choice he made.

 

i think this was a decent WR class. As we saw only a few 1st round talents but a ton of potential. Guys like Butler in the 4th or Harmon in the 6th, just to name a few. I would have took a shot at one of those guys. 

Beane definitely knows more about the draft, and about football talent evaluation, and about what the coaches say about the players.  

 

You know now what you read on the internet, just like the rest of us.  

[LSHMEAB]

2 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

 

I’ve seen offense of line used quite a bit. Not sure if it was an accident at first then others went with it. 

Not as bad as weird, unnecessary s's thrown onto random words. "I planned on going to Tops's to bring some spinach dip to the tailgates's for the Jets's game, but I got about 8 textes warning me that there were reports of spinach based foods poisoning."

[folz]

We have a pretty good WR corps right now. The only thing that everyone seems to think we are missing is that true #1 type receiver. None of the WRs in this year's draft had that true #1 receiver label. So, why waste a pick on a WR who is projected to be a slot guy (as some of the top WRs in the draft were slated as) since we already have Beasley. Why waste a pick on a speed guy, since we have Brown and Foster. If there was a true #1 WR in the draft, I bet Beane would have gone out of his way to get him, but that just wasn't this draft. You don't grab a WR just to say we drafted a WR. To all of the fans who were upset that the Bills didn't draft a WR in the 3rd to 7th rounds I ask, where was a WR in those rounds that would be a true #1 WR (if there was one he would have been drafted by someone earlier---rounds 1 or 2)? Anyone selected that late in the draft wouldn't have cracked the starting lineup, so why waste a pick on one.

 

And as for Metcalf, McDermott said it in his post draft wrap up, "I hate the word potential." These guys like to draft players that have proven it at the collegiate level, with 2-4 years of solid production.

 

As to the OP's point and posted article though, yes, I feel bad for kids like Metcalf who get their hopes of being a high draft pick pumped up by the media, when it just isn't a reality.

[Rocket94]

2 hours ago, HOUSE said:

 

He doesn't have that ripped body so he will never do

Ha! well, I know he can run more than a straight line fully clothed!

[YoloinOhio]

12 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I personally wish D.K. all the best. If he turns out to be the next  young T.O then Seattle got a bargain. I have nothing against D.K. and will not root against him. The Bills had a lower draft value on him than the second round. Has anyone in Buffalo media asked Beane what grade they had on D.K.? 

They did not ask him specifically what grade they had on him because they knew he would not provide that info. No GM is going to tell you what grade they had on another team’s player. But I was able to discern from his comments that it was late 2nd or later. 

 

The reason is that they asked him why he didn’t take a WR. He said that there were WRa they liked but each time they picked, there were players higher on their board than the next WR and they didn’t want to reach. He was asked what the “gap” would need to be to constitute a reach. He said if they are picking in the top part of the round and the next WR on their board they have graded toward the bottom of that round, they would stick to the board. If it was close, and there was a position of need, they may consider it. Based on this comment , because he was there when they picked in the 2nd, and they selected another player, he must have graded on their board toward the bottom of the 2nd (or later). 

[Nihilarian]

NFN, but all this worry about a wide receiver that most draft pundits had placed in the first round to top ten is silly.  The very first WR went #25 to the Ravens in the 2019 NFL draft. This tells me that no actual NFL team had any WR rated that highly.  Marquise Brown #25, N'Keal Harry #32. Eight WRs taken before Metcalf and he was the last player taken in the second round, correct? It was all media and fan Hype. 

 

Now think back to last years draft when the majority of the Bills fans wanted to draft Josh Rosen. Most were willing to give up the farm to trade up to the #2 spot with the NY Giants to draft him. Some even wanted to give the Giants a 2019 first round pick too. 

 

Just like last year the Bills had a chance to draft the more polished QB in Rosen and passed for reasons. This year they passed on a WR/TE with that second round pick to draft a punishing run blocking offensive linemen for reasons. Reasons that are clear to me, because as many linemen as they added in free agency this FO wanted to make sure they could build a solid run game while better protecting that second year QB who loves to throw deep. Throwing deep requires more time in the pocket.

 

This FO knows what they are doing and we should see the results come September. 

[The Senator]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Not as bad as weird, unnecessary s's thrown onto random words. "I planned on going to Tops's to bring some spinach dip to the tailgates's for the Jets's game, but I got about 8 textes warning me that there were reports of spinach based foods poisoning."

 

I have a bachelors and a doctorate from Cornell, and have absolutely no f**king idea what you just said...

 

 

[Malazan]

2 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I dunno. I just think it is a mindset thing. When people doubt you, I think you get a little extra mustard in there. It isn't implying that he would hold anything back effort wise. I think it's a real thing. We can all agree to disagree. Motivated to do your best, but also motivated to prove some people wrong. It's an extra source of motivation. Bulletin board material etc. To me that's real, not a stupid sports cliche. Ask Tom Brady. 

 

Ah, yes, TOm Brady is only Brady because he was drafted late. Nothing to do with his talent, drive, etc. He only became a great QB to spite the people who didn't draft him. Lol

[The Senator]

5 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

Ah, yes, TOm Brady is only Brady because he was drafted late. Nothing to do with his talent, drive, etc. He only became a great QB to spite the people who didn't draft him. Lol

 

Ah yes, the Brady argument, once again.

 

Why not bring up Kurt Warner?  Warren Moon?

 

Brady carried Brian Griese’s jock strap at Michigan - that’s why no one saw what NE saw.

 

Vis-a-vis Metcalf, EVERYONE (‘cept the Seahawks) know what they didn’t see.  

 

I sincerely don’t know if you’re just being sarcastic or cynical, but if you’re comparing lame, unproductive, fragile, injury-prone  Metcalf to GOAT,  please take an antidote.

.

[The Senator]

16 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Not many that I've been to...

 

 

Not for nothin’, but aren’t those the two guys Jussie Smollette hired?

.

[Boatdrinks]

3 hours ago, The Senator said:

 

Ah yes, the Brady argument, once again.

 

Why not bring up Kurt Warner?  Warren Moon?

 

Brady carried Brian Griese’s jock strap at Michigan - that’s why no one saw what NE saw.

 

Vis-a-vis Metcalf, EVERYONE (‘cept the Seahawks) know what they didn’t see.  

 

I sincerely don’t know if you’re just being sarcastic or cynical, but if you’re comparing lame, unproductive, fragile, injury-prone  Metcalf to GOAT,  please take an antidote.

.

What NE saw? Lol that’s rich. Brady was a 6th round draft pick and I’m pretty sure the last QB taken. Pretty safe to say they didn’t see all that much ( definitely not an inkling of a HOF career) or he’d have been selected long before that. They took a 6th round flyer at the end of the draft that planned out beyond anyone’s wildest expectation. Probably figured he’d be a camp arm. Let’s not make it out to be some great visionary thing, it was a monumental fluke. That happens sometimes. Every once in awhile you get Kurt Warner instead of Curtis Painter. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

21 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Whereas the WR the Bills selected was.....oh wait! 

 

David SIlls V

 

I know stats can lie, but he put up twice the receiving yards in his career as Metcalf, while playing in one fewer year.

[Teddy KGB]

53 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said:

He reminds me of a younger version of T.O

 

Easily seems like he would've been worth a late 2nd round pick. 

 

Will be interesting to see how he turns out for Seattle. 

 

In what ways does he resemble TO ?   

 

It surely isn’t his footwork or route running. 

 

Yikes 

[YoloinOhio]

6 hours ago, The Senator said:

 

I have a bachelors and a doctorate from Cornell, and have absolutely no f**king idea what you just said...

 

 

Are...are... you Andy Bernard? 

[The Senator]

10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Are...are... you Andy Bernard? 

 

No, but my walls, desk, shelves, closet, and drawers probably have more Big Red gear than his!

.

[The Senator]

3 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

What NE saw? Lol that’s rich. Brady was a 6th round draft pick and I’m pretty sure the last QB taken. Pretty safe to say they didn’t see all that much ( definitely not an inkling of a HOF career) or he’d have been selected long before that. They took a 6th round flyer at the end of the draft that planned out beyond anyone’s wildest expectation. Probably figured he’d be a camp arm. Let’s not make it out to be some great visionary thing, it was a monumental fluke. That happens sometimes. Every once in awhile you get Kurt Warner instead of Curtis Painter. 

 

Thanks for your insight into the Patriots thoughts 19 years ago.  Gosh, NE ‘took a flier’ on Brady in round 6?  After passing on 5 other QBs?

 

What else are you pretty sure of?  (Brady was the 6th QB taken in 2000, there were 5 QBs picked after him.)

 

Calling Brady a monumental fluke is just ignorant.

 

 The 2000 draft was not ripe with QBs - of the 11 drafted, the only other one of note besides Brady was Marc Bulger, also taken in round 6, before Brady.  First QB drafted that year was Giovanni Carmazzi, in round 3.  Remember him?  (Didn’t think so - probably the only other QB anyone remembers from that year is UDFA Billy Volek.)

 

Every once in a while, a GM knows exactly what he’s doing, and gets a Tom Brady instead of Jamarcus Russell.

.

 

 

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, NJKBillsfan said:

T.O 

6'3 213

 

Metcalf

6'3 228

 

40 yard dash

T.O 4.63

 

Metcalf

4.33

 

Vertical Jump

T.O

33 

 

Metcalf

40.5

 

 

 

Yet NFL teams chose Andy Isabella, Paris Campbell, JJ arcega, Mecole Hardman etc etc etc etc over him 

 

The TO comp is valid ??????

[Rocket94]

13 hours ago, HOUSE said:

 

He doesn't have that ripped body so he will never do

Ha! well, I know he can run more than a straight line fully clothed!

I don't understand the obsession with wr's this year. With the emergence of Foster and the acquisition of John Brown, the Bills are much improved. Sounds like some Madden scenario...yes, half of these guys were passed over several times. For a reason!

[TakeYouToTasker]

On 4/29/2019 at 8:13 AM, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

So you wanted them to take an over-hyped guy way before he should have been selected?  That move is what some of the past regimes did.  How did two first round picks against Watkins work out?

 

Conventional board wisdom has Watkins being acquired for 13 first round picks.

[Malazan]

10 hours ago, The Senator said:

 

Ah yes, the Brady argument, once again.

 

Why not bring up Kurt Warner?  Warren Moon?

 

Brady carried Brian Griese’s jock strap at Michigan - that’s why no one saw what NE saw.

 

Vis-a-vis Metcalf, EVERYONE (‘cept the Seahawks) know what they didn’t see.  

 

I sincerely don’t know if you’re just being sarcastic or cynical, but if you’re comparing lame, unproductive, fragile, injury-prone  Metcalf to GOAT,  please take an antidote.

.

 

What? Are you paying attention to the conversation? It's about a claim that a 'chip on the shoulder' makes players better. The other guy talked about Tom Brady being drafted in the 6th gave him extra motivation. I disagree that there's any "extra" a player can give because they fell in the draft.

 

You seem to be replying to the wrong person and not replying to anything that was said as no one made the argument that metcalf and brady are on the same level so you might want to take the antidote yourself.

Edited April 30, 2019 by jeremy2020

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

Yet NFL teams chose Andy Isabella, Paris Campbell, JJ arcega, Mecole Hardman etc etc etc etc over him 

 

The TO comp is valid ??????

21 WRs were taken before AB in 2010. They're all in the league now. We'll find out who can play come fall and over the next few years.

[ngbills]

On 4/29/2019 at 6:15 AM, Jumpsuit Jim said:

Saying that Bean doesn’t know better than us is like saying the physician doesn’t know more than us because we read Web MD everyday. 

 

And then you follow it up by calling this a decent WR class?  I think.....

 

 

 

wow. 

Again - just because he doesn't pick a guy does not mean he is right. Yes, they study and research but they still get it wrong. My point was it is incorrect to say "Beane passed so obviously he wont be good". I wont list the countless examples of guys passed on that become stars in the league. 

 

I do think there will be some good players. In 3-5 years you can look back and see. 

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

18 hours ago, The Senator said:

 

I have a bachelors and a doctorate from Cornell, and have absolutely no f**king idea what you just said...

 

 

[BullBuchanan]

On 4/29/2019 at 12:20 PM, Rocket94 said:

What is wrong with John Brown? The guy is a professional and is a real deep threat. None of this year's wr class would be any better. 

 

He's tiny and he has a concussion history. To paraphrase the guys hating on DK Metcalf, all John Brown does is run fast in a straight line. He was the #3 WR in Arizona and that's where he belongs. Us treating him like a #1 guy doesn't make him so. He's a 29 year old receiver that's had 1000 yards and 7 TDs once in his career. That's his ceiling. We should be hoping for a 700 yard/5 TD line, which is fine for the #3 that he is.

[SCBills]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

 

He's tiny and he has a concussion history. To paraphrase the guys hating on DK Metcalf, all John Brown does is run fast in a straight line. He was the #3 WR in Arizona and that's where he belongs. Us treating him like a #1 guy doesn't make him so. He's a 29 year old receiver that's had 1000 yards and 7 TDs once in his career. That's his ceiling. We should be hoping for a 700 yard/5 TD line, which is fine for the #3 that he is.

 

Whos viewing him as a #1?   I think everyone, including our FO, probably acknowledges we have a stable of 2/3 WRs as we currently stand. 

[Phil The Thrill]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

He's tiny and he has a concussion history. To paraphrase the guys hating on DK Metcalf, all John Brown does is run fast in a straight line. He was the #3 WR in Arizona and that's where he belongs. Us treating him like a #1 guy doesn't make him so. He's a 29 year old receiver that's had 1000 yards and 7 TDs once in his career. That's his ceiling. We should be hoping for a 700 yard/5 TD line, which is fine for the #3 that he is.

 

Do you like ANY moves that the Bills have made?  Because you seem to be very critical any time someone says something positive about the team.

[BullBuchanan]

On 4/29/2019 at 8:15 AM, Jumpsuit Jim said:

Saying that Bean doesn’t know better than us is like saying the physician doesn’t know more than us because we read Web MD everyday. 

 

And then you follow it up by calling this a decent WR class?  I think.....

 

 

 

wow. 

 

Um. Have you never worked with or hired a complete idiot? You put way too much faith in someone's ability to do a job based on a job title. Fun fact, someone out there is being treated by the worst doctor to ever graduate from their alma mater and none of their customers know it. What makes sports even worse is that there's no degree, so all they need to do is convince an owner that they can do the job. I work with a ton of people that make a lot of money and I wouldn't trust them to mow my lawn.

[Rocket94]

6 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Whos viewing him as a #1?   I think everyone, including our FO, probably acknowledges we have a stable of 2/3 WRs as we currently stand. 

I do not have a clue what the Bills are going to do at WR. After the A. Brown fiasco, it appears that they are looking for veterans to help Allen. They must have a plan to address it...and the DE mess as well. I just happen to like John Brown despite his troubles. Robert Foster as well. Give these guys a chance. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Rocket94

[Phil The Thrill]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Um. Have you never worked with or hired a complete idiot? You put way too much faith in someone's ability to do a job based on a job title. Fun fact, someone out there is being treated by the worst doctor to ever graduate from their alma mater and none of their customers know it. What makes sports even worse is that there's no degree, so all they need to do is convince an owner that they can do the job. I work with a ton of people that make a lot of money and I wouldn't trust them to mow my lawn.

 

Why wouldn’t you trust them to cut your lawn?  If they make a lot of money, I’m quite sure they could figure out a mower.

[BullBuchanan]

4 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 

Do you like ANY moves that the Bills have made?  Because you seem to be very critical any time someone says something positive about the team.

I LOVE the David Sills pickup. I think he'll be the best WR on the team by the end of next season. I also like the Knox pick a lot. Drafted on high end phsyical talents is what I always advocate for in later round picks. I also think the LB was a good pick, as he hits like a truck. If they can teach him how to play football, he could be a real player. I think the DT in round 1 is a little meh, but he was BPA, and there's no one I wanted more there. I think the OL pick in Rd 2 was very meh given the previous investments they made, but they had him BPA. I think the undersized RB was a wasted pick, and the same of the small slow safety. not sure the last TE makes it out of camp, but not worried about him.

For FA, I liked the Brown pick, assuming they'd get Brown or Beckham or DK to be the #1. I didn't care for the Beasely pick as he's old with no upside left. Hated the gore signing. Liked the yeldon signing. Liked the Morse and spain signings. Didn't love Kroft at the money. 1.5M cheaper would have been better. I hated the moves they didn't make (Watching the Browns become the next Eagles overnight)

4 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 

Why wouldn’t you trust them to cut your lawn?  If they make a lot of money, I’m quite sure they could figure out a mower.

Because there are a lot of highly compensated and well respected incompetent people on this planet and billions more between there and great.

15 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Whos viewing him as a #1?   I think everyone, including our FO, probably acknowledges we have a stable of 2/3 WRs as we currently stand. 

He's the #1 by default. He's had the most success of any WR on the roster and that's the problem. I like him as a role player, but not at all as a guy the Bills were comfortable going into the season with until UDFA.