Who to draft on Day 2

[LabattBlue]

19 minutes ago, Yav said:

I think the Bills can work with him on that, kid can cover and if he can be a shut down guy thats just as good as tackling. 

If it was as simple as that, he still wouldn't be sitting in the green room at the start of day 2 of the draft.

[PolishDave]

53 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

    I haven't seen this addressed, and am curious as to what others think. I'm under the impression that while college to pro transition is difficult, it is most difficult for OL and WR. (QB aside, as that is a whole different animal). It seems to me that the Bills were most active in signing FA's  this year in these two groups. Is it possible that they are willing to let other NFL teams be a training ground for their eventual WR's and OL, and they will concentrate their draft pix on position groups where the pix can make a much quicker contribution? I realize we had huge needs with these two groups, but perhaps draft strategy is affected by transition difficulty. Thoughts?

 I would be amazed if that was their reasoning.

 

I think it is more that they simply don't value the positions as highly as other staffs do.   As was the case with Sammy Watkins and Bob Woods.    They don't want to spend money in either of those two positions with the exception of Center perhaps because of the importance of Center-QB relationship.

[DCOrange]

FWIW, considering Charlie Campbell got a crazy 11 picks right last night (without even attempting to guess at trades for that matter), for tonight he has Buffalo taking Riley Ridley at 40 and Yodny Cajuste at 74. Has 4 WRs being taken in the 33-39 range before it gets to us.

[HappyDays]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

If Byron Murphy is there at 40 I think the Bills would have a tough time passing on him. Not to say I would - I am jonesing for offense too

 

Teams don't draft like fans. They aren't just thinking about this year, especially after round 1. CB looks good right now but Gaines and Johnson are on one year deals, and Wallace didn't show enough last year to earn any kind of long term commitment. If the best player available is a CB they'll take him for the future.

[ndirish1978]

OT - Risner, Taylor, Ford

G - Dru Samia, Elgton Jenkins, Erik Mccoy, Michael Dieter - TONS of good guards available

TE - Irv Smith Jr., Jace Sternberger

WR - DK Metcalf, AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler, 

EDGE - Chase Winovich, Jaylon Ferguson

CB - Julian Love, Amani Oruwariye, Greedy Williams, Rock Ya-Sin

[YoloinOhio]

49 minutes ago, Yav said:

I think the Bills can work with him on that, kid can cover and if he can be a shut down guy thats just as good as tackling. 

Maybe but we already have Levi Wallace who can cover and not tackle 

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

25 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 I would be amazed if that was their reasoning.

 

I think it is more that they simply don't value the positions as highly as other staffs do.   As was the case with Sammy Watkins and Bob Woods.    They don't want to spend money in either of those two positions with the exception of Center perhaps because of the importance of Center-QB relationship.

fair enough, but if they don't value OL highly, we're screwed

[Augie]

The great part is you can easily make a list of 8 VERY good players, and we will get one of them! 

 

OL, TE, WR. 

[Yav]

31 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

If it was as simple as that, he still wouldn't be sitting in the green room at the start of day 2 of the draft.

I'm just saying with safety help the tackling may not be a big concern. 

LSU seems to always turn out great defensive players and their corners are always solid. 

 

He's just a player I like in the second round. 

[MrEpsYtown]

14 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

FWIW, considering Charlie Campbell got a crazy 11 picks right last night (without even attempting to guess at trades for that matter), for tonight he has Buffalo taking Riley Ridley at 40 and Yodny Cajuste at 74. Has 4 WRs being taken in the 33-39 range before it gets to us.

 

I know everybody hates walter football, but Charlie did better than all the experts. 

[100DollarBills]

I will say that having Risner and Butler would solidify this as a grade A draft, after that it doesn’t matter who they draft. 

[Yav]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Maybe but we already have Levi Wallace who can cover and not tackle 

I just like Greedy. I don't see the Bills drafting a CB right now.

Safe bet would be OL or TE.

[YattaOkasan]

1 hour ago, glazeduck said:

Better being the operative word. Not sure he'll ever be a high-end starter though. 

I don't think DE is the spot to focus on here (or possibly at all, in this draft), but if we look later, a guy like Crosby, Ximines or Joe Jackson probably makes the most sense.

Based on the depth of the draft I think youre on it.  We need someone to develop but I like the 2nd 4th we have to pick Crosby.  I want the next 3 to be offense with a tackle and TE

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

I said this last night, but I think Bills fans need to prepare for the very real possibility that the 2nd round pick is spent on a DB.

They had Juan Thornhill and Chauncey Gardner-Johnson both in for visits. They also love Rock Ya-Sin and Byron Murphy.

McDermott wants to run the Big Nickel with someone better and more dangerous than Rafael Bush. Don't be shocked to hear a defensive back's name called tonight.

 

Bills also had Taylor, Metcalf, Brown, Samuels and Little in for visits.

Occum's Razor Logic.  Daboll will sit next to Beane and say "Oliver was a great pic for the DEFENSE".

It's going to be an Offensive player at #40.  I will be shocked if it isn't.

 

Gruden loves Drew Lock and he doesn't pick again until the 4th.

I can't see Gruden not picking a QB and he realistically cant wait 71 picks on Lock IMO.

It also may be a trade up spot for Beane and Gruden.

The Bills pick is before any secondary QB needy teams (DEN, CIN, MIA, and NE).

 

[DCOrange]

15 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I know everybody hates walter football, but Charlie did better than all the experts. 

 

I'm fairly certain that this year's mock will end up being the best, which would make him #1 two of the past three years, and Walter was like #2 or #3 the one year that Charlie wasn't the best. Their website is an atrocity to read and Walter is a terrible person, but Charlie Campbell has some serious connections in the NFL.

[PolishDave]

13 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

fair enough, but if they don't value OL highly, we're screwed

 

Agreed.  And based on their moves albeit just the last couple years, there is no evidence to suggest they place premium value on offensive linemen.   Seems their opinion of them is closer to the mindset that they are "a dime a dozen".      

 

And perhaps it is more about the coaching and player fit more so than individual player talent.   You might think so based on the production that Greg Roman was able to squeeze out of his offensive line while he was here.    All I know is that regardless of how much talent Josh Allen has or any of the other offensive weapons, if the offensive line sucks, the offense will suck.  Shady (who is generally accepted as being an above average runner) failed behind last year's line.   And Allen spent too much time running from linemen instead of picking apart secondaries from the pocket.

[frostbitmic]

Round 2 - Dalton Risner - G/T - Kansas St

Round 3 - Trde up for a second 3rd round pick ...Oliver the TE and Anthony Johnson - WR - UB

[qwksilver]

It would be great if we end up with 3 picks to night. So much value to be had. I'd like to see Butler, Sanders,  Risner or Taylor, Irv Smith. Like I said so much value tonight. How can we get 4 picks tonight?

[100DollarBills]

5 minutes ago, qwksilver said:

It would be great if we end up with 3 picks to night. So much value to be had. I'd like to see Butler, Sanders,  Risner or Taylor, Irv Smith. Like I said so much value tonight. How can we get 4 picks tonight?

I’d like for us to trade away both our round 4 picks and our 5ths to have a total of 3 picks in the second round, if that isn’t enough, throw in a 2020 3rd. 

[glazeduck]

45 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Based on the depth of the draft I think youre on it.  We need someone to develop but I like the 2nd 4th we have to pick Crosby.  I want the next 3 to be offense with a tackle and TE

If I had my way, we'd wait on TE and OT...

 

Take your alpha WR at 2 (DK, Butler, AJB in that order), get a TE at 3 (Sternberger, Oliver, Knox, Walling) and then you can take a developmental T (Edwards) and DE in the 4th. 

 

Or for that matter, trade one of the 4s and maybe a 2020 3 or 4 for Solomon Thomas -- I like that solution even better.

[Iamkrgr]

Greg Little is available as well. I recall he was talked up as a possible 1st rounder for the majority of the season. I'm not sure why he's fallen down but he's a guy that could be of interest. 

[YattaOkasan]

20 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

If I had my way, we'd wait on TE and OT...

 

Take your alpha WR at 2 (DK, Butler, AJB in that order), get a TE at 3 (Sternberger, Oliver, Knox, Walling) and then you can take a developmental T (Edwards) and DE in the 4th. 

 

Or for that matter, trade one of the 4s and maybe a 2020 3 or 4 for Solomon Thomas -- I like that solution even better.

I'm waiting to use a lot draft capital on WR until next year.  This year is serviceable and will be dependent on Josh Allen (same thoughts for RB).  We could still use a late pick on a flyer, but next year is deep at the skill positions so thats when I would spend my draft capital.

[glazeduck]

1 minute ago, YattaOkasan said:

I'm waiting to use a lot draft capital on WR until next year.  This year is serviceable and will be dependent on Josh Allen (same thoughts for RB).  We could still use a late pick on a flyer, but next year is deep at the skill positions so thats when I would spend my draft capital.

I don't think we can afford to wait and give our franchise QB "serviceable"... The talent is there now, the risk has been removed, and we don't have any completely glaring holes elsewhere (aside from TE), but I addressed that too...

[YattaOkasan]

2 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

I don't think we can afford to wait and give our franchise QB "serviceable"... The talent is there now, the risk has been removed, and we don't have any completely glaring holes elsewhere (aside from TE), but I addressed that too...

I just don't see the talent now is all.  I could live with it if they decide, but I dont trust anyone on the board really.  With the tackle position I see lots of good. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by the risk (its a lower draft choice?, its still a 2nd rounder!). 

 

I'm cool with your TE plan.  I agree with no glaring holes, but I would use that to pick from what the draft is good at for the future.  Feels as if you want to try to land a superstar skill position player.  I think the most probable outcome in that scenario is our pick at the skill position isnt that good and we are in need of OL next year when the talent isnt there in the draft (cause we have so many short contracts to serviceable OL). 

 

I'm ok with different approaches, but let me know if youre thinking something different.

[Chandler#81]

14 hours ago, CajunBillsBacker said:

A couple options I like are still there...

 

DK Metcalf, didn’t like him at 9, but we’re right around his value area now.

AJ Brown, my top receiver in the draft

Deebo Samuel

Dalton Risner

Jawaan Taylor, why is he still there?

 

 

Because he sucks! Don’t recall ever being so justified in my belief than to see every team pass him by. Some with multiple picks! 

Oh! Wait a minute.. DK.

Because he sucks! Don’t recall ever being so justified in my belief than to see every team pass him by. Some with 3 Frekin Picks!

[YattaOkasan]

1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

Because he sucks! Don’t recall ever being so justified in my belief than to see every team pass him by. Some with multiple picks! 

Oh! Wait a minute.. DK.

Because he sucks! Don’t recall ever being so justified in my belief than to see every team pass him by. Some with 3 Frekin Picks!

I liked his tape against Josh Allen.  I thought he could be plug and play RT.  remind me what your thoughts on him were.  Agreed on DK.

[Chandler#81]

Anyhoo, How do you build a team?

 

THROUGH THE MIDDLE!

 

McBeane has brought us Poyer & Hyde, Edmunds & Milano, Oliver & Harry, Morse & Spain, Shady and ..um.. whatsizname.

3 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

I liked his tape against Josh Allen.  I thought he could be plug and play RT.  remind me what your thoughts on him were.  Agreed on DK.

I watch every Gator game -it’s what we do here. Never stood out, never talked up by the team nor reporters. Never anything other than he started for a couple seasons. All of  a sudden he’s the next Will Wolford? Zero evidence.

[glazeduck]

4 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

I just don't see the talent now is all.  I could live with it if they decide, but I dont trust anyone on the board really.  With the tackle position I see lots of good. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by the risk (its a lower draft choice?, its still a 2nd rounder!). 

 

I'm cool with your TE plan.  I agree with no glaring holes, but I would use that to pick from what the draft is good at for the future.  Feels as if you want to try to land a superstar skill position player.  I think the most probable outcome in that scenario is our pick at the skill position isnt that good and we are in need of OL next year when the talent isnt there in the draft (cause we have so many short contracts to serviceable OL). 

 

I'm ok with different approaches, but let me know if youre thinking something different.

DK, Butler and AJ Brown are all very talented WRs, regardless of class who would add to the talent in our locker room. 

 

I've said this before but I'll repeat it, our WR corps consists of: 

• Smokey Brown, who has bounced around and never really *made it* anywhere -- that's not all bad luck.
• Zay Jones, who's had half of a solid season and literally almost killed himself prior to that. Hopefully he turned the corner, but not a guy I'm counting as a rock solid producer for the next decade.
• Robert Foster, who went undrafted and had half a season of success (after getting cut by us -- one of the worst teams in the league last year, after seeing what he could do for 4 months...) Like Zay, hopefully something clicked and he's turned a corner, but it's just as likely that teams were disrespecting him/Allen and forcing them to beat them with the long ball.
• Cole Beasley -- good slot guy but he doesn't offer a ton in the way of dynamism or mismatches. 
• Duke Williams -- the CFL is not the NFL and he's already flamed out once...

 

Not exactly a murderer's row... At this point everyone has their warts, but a good coach can find ways to win with the guys I mentioned above. 

[Reed83HOF]

Available players - Man the depth of this draft is unreal

 

 

[buffaloaggie]

Just a thought, but the value of a good backup QB can net you a 1st rounder a few years down the road. If he's there, Drew Lock.

[YattaOkasan]

1 minute ago, glazeduck said:

DK, Butler and AJ Brown are all very talented WRs, regardless of class who would add to the talent in our locker room. 

 

I've said this before but I'll repeat it, our WR corps consists of: 

• Smokey Brown, who has bounced around and never really *made it* anywhere -- that's not all bad luck.
• Zay Jones, who's had half of a solid season and literally almost killed himself prior to that. Hopefully he turned the corner, but not a guy I'm counting as a rock solid producer for the next decade.
• Robert Foster, who went undrafted and had half a season of success (after getting cut by us -- one of the worst teams in the league last year, after seeing what he could do for 4 months...) Like Zay, hopefully something clicked and he's turned a corner, but it's just as likely that teams were disrespecting him/Allen and forcing them to beat them with the long ball.
• Cole Beasley -- good slot guy but he doesn't offer a ton in the way of dynamism or mismatches. 
• Duke Williams -- the CFL is not the NFL and he's already flamed out once...

 

Not exactly a murderer's row... At this point everyone has their warts, but a good coach can find ways to win with the guys I mentioned above. 

Yeah I think our assessment of the WR room is the same (not looking long term with any one but Cole really), but DK can't change directions/Butler has the drops/I didnt watch tape of AJ.  Like I said I'm not sold on any of them.  I think our OL room is only slightly better than our WR room so thats where my focus is with pick 2.  Good discussion thanks!

[WideNine]

All I know for sure is that NE (working the comp system) has 5 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds and it is very likely they piss me off tonight.

 

Just say'n.

 

 

[glazeduck]

1 minute ago, YattaOkasan said:

Yeah I think our assessment of the WR room is the same (not looking long term with any one but Cole really), but DK can't change directions/Butler has the drops/I didnt watch tape of AJ.  Like I said I'm not sold on any of them.  I think our OL room is only slightly better than our WR room so thats where my focus is with pick 2.  Good discussion thanks!

That's fine, it doesn't seem like you've done a whole lot of research, I happen to think your opinions on the first two are incredibly incomplete and am not sure how you can be unsold on someone you know absolutely nothing about, but so as long as you're not Brandon Beane, you're certainly entitled to having less than a completely researched opinion. 

[Nihilarian]

37 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Available players - Man the depth of this draft is unreal

 

 

Man 0 man what a selection even after 7 are taken. My money is on an OT, WR, TE. 

[HappyDays]

I think I like Arcega-Whiteside more than most. Give me that outside possession receiver with a big catch radius. He could be what we wanted Zay to be, but with much better catch ability.

[YattaOkasan]

1 hour ago, glazeduck said:

That's fine, it doesn't seem like you've done a whole lot of research, I happen to think your opinions on the first two are incredibly incomplete and am not sure how you can be unsold on someone you know absolutely nothing about, but so as long as you're not Brandon Beane, you're certainly entitled to having less than a completely researched opinion. 

I think I've done adequate research between tape and reading others analysis.  I watched the Butler tape.  Was not impressed (too many drops).  I was high on Harry based on his tape. I saw bits of AJ from the DK tape.  I'll look at a game now, but I don't think his game is there.  I DID see Taylor man handle Josh Allen and really everyone against him.  We can disagree about if the tackle talent is better than the WR talent in this draft.

 

Finished the Auburn game for AJ brown.  I don't see the upside relative to anyone we have currently.  He had 2 big gainers and a TD.  Also 3 balls that hit him in the hands (2 were difficult catches the other he got hit hard on).  Caught him loafing on several plays.  I dont see it (I was more biased in this game than all my other evaluations probably).  His stats were super interesting when considered with the film I've seen (one game and pieces from the DK review) he appears to be a boom or bust guy (not much on a bubble or chunks of yards cause he got into open space).  He honestly reminds of a poor man's Sammy.  Lastly, it seems AJ kills it during garbage time and against over matched opponents.  I contrast this with Harry who was often making game breaking plays in the 4th quarter.  What are you thinking AJ brings that we don't have in the WR room?

 

I can tell you Taylor is a beast on the tape.  Finally 4 OTs off the board in round 1 and only 2 WR.  This draft is good at OT.  We should get one so we don't need one in a down year next year.

Edited April 26, 2019 by YattaOkasan

[glazeduck]

25 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

I watched the Butler tape.  Was not impressed.  I was on Harry.  Bellichek who hasn't been great at WR agrees though.  I saw bits of AJ from the DK tape.  I'll look at a game now, but I don't think his game is there.  I DID see Taylor man handle Josh Allen and really everyone against him.  We can disagree about if the tackle talent is better than the WR talent in this draft.

You and I aren't arguing about Taylor, that's somebody else...

 

Harry played well against a really bad Pac 12. Brown and DK played as well or better in a stellar SEC. I think that's the difference to me. My only issue is that you can't evaluate a guy in one or two words. I'm extremely confident that both Butler and DK will be good-great WRs in this league...

 

[YattaOkasan]

Just now, glazeduck said:

You and I aren't arguing about Taylor, that's somebody else...

 

Harry played well against a really bad Pac 12. Brown and DK played as well or better in a stellar SEC. I think that's the difference to me. My only issue is that you can't evaluate a guy in one or two words. I'm extremely confident that both Butler and DK will be good-great WRs in this league...

 

I threw Taylor in as an example of good OT still on the board.

 

Harry did play against a down Pac 12 but he was changing the outcome of games.  I didnt see that with any of the guys you listed (now with tape on all).  I am not confident Butler will hold on to the ball enough and DK is too one dimensional.  I am also leveraging the analysis of the other draft scouts (too much tape for any one person).

[Bronxbomber21]

I. Smith Jr

D. Risner

DK. Metcalf

Aj Brown

G. Williams

[Maine-iac]

I like Ford/Risner in rd 2.  I also like Boykin at WR later on.  His size and athleticism would serve Allen well and he's probably not the next reciever getting picked so he might make it another round or two.