SWATeam Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 14 hours ago, thebandit27 said: So you think Beane works out a deal with his old pal Gettleman and gets to 6 for Eddie O? Giants drop to 9 and take Lock? Has Gettleman ever traded his pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 3 hours ago, noacls said: Umm, he is an inch taller than Kyle Williams Yeah. That Kyle Williams guy was simply too short to be effective at the NFL level. Hard pass on Oliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Doug Whaley is such an idiot for trading up in the draft. McBeane are geniuses for trading up for the 3rd time in 3 years! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Doug Whaley is such an idiot for trading up in the draft. McBeane are geniuses for trading up for the 3rd time in 3 years! This is Beanes 2nd draft. Your math is a wee off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Doug Whaley is such an idiot for trading up in the draft. McBeane are geniuses for trading up for the 3rd time in 3 years! You are such a model of consistency. Like a McDonalds or a Tim Horton's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Logic said: You are such a model of consistency. Like a McDonalds or a Tim Horton's. You’re right and thank you. I hate double standards. The world would be better if people were more consistent. I generally trading up for every non qb is a mistake. People ripped Whaley for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 11 hours ago, john wawrow said: i’m not at all surprised how much this has taken off and been to some degree twisted to satisfy some folks’ narratives and hopes. the significance of my initial tweet is, in reality, more of a tidbit and not five-alarm fire that came up during a recent conversation. again, as i’ve posted here an on the tweeter: i dont know what chance of a trade will happen. simply, a trade up is more likely (odds? dunno) than down in first round. jw Thanks for stirring the pot. It's fun for us fans to speculate! One thing that is becoming apparent about Beane is he pursues every option. I think he would prefer to stay at 9 BUT I'm sure he will keep a close eye on the 1st 4 picks and see what happens. As other have said it probably all depend on the QB picks and the hope another GM or two does something boneheaded. Depending on his board and how the picks start to unravel I can see him moving as high as #5 (Tampa) or as low as #15 (Wash). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: You’re right and thank you. I hate double standards. The world would be better if people were more consistent. I generally trading up for every non qb is a mistake. People ripped Whaley for this. I think you have to take it on a case by case basis. There are many factors, but Whaley’s move in a WR rich draft and with no proven QB should be ripped. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: You’re right and thank you. I hate double standards. The world would be better if people were more consistent. I generally trading up for every non qb is a mistake. People ripped Whaley for this. I'm okay with going for a pass rusher 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 It's a deep draft, so they are probably wise to keep their #9 pick and trade up into the late 1st rd. - early 3rd rd. range. The extra draft picks they have to trade with probably won't get them above 9 anyway. Based on draft pick trade values, they could potentially trade their 2nd and 3rd, plus maybe throw in one of their lower picks to get into the bottom 10 of the 1st round. Whatever the case may be, I hope they trade the extra 4th, 5th, and 7th rounders for something. They need talented guys more than they need warm bodies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perk71 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 19 hours ago, familykwi said: Heh. Sorry John. I live in San Diego. Where would I see your stuff? PK I've lived in So Cal all my life and ever since I've joined this board I knew who he was. Just an fyi...I have always liked his approach. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: I'm okay with going for a pass rusher Pass rusher might be the only other somewhat acceptable trade up position. But I don’t like trades for a couple of reason: 1 - draft picks are lottery tickets. The more picks you have, the more likely you are to hit the jackpot. 2 - what would Belichick do? The answer is normally trade back and get more picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Trade up or not I think it now looks increasingly like if Ed Oliver is on the board when the Bills are on the clock he is the pick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 25 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: People ripped Whaley for this. They ripped him for trading away a future 1st rounder for a WR. If we trade a 2nd or 3rd for Oliver that is not comparable. Personally I would do it for the 3rd and a 4th thrown in. Not sure about the 2nd but I wouldn't hate it. He has the potential to be a game changing talent and we wouldn't be sacrificing the future at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Pass rusher might be the only other somewhat acceptable trade up position. But I don’t like trades for a couple of reason: 1 - draft picks are lottery tickets. The more picks you have, the more likely you are to hit the jackpot. 2 - what would Belichick do? The answer is normally trade back and get more picks. But does it really ? Or is this just some sports talking head drivel to drive conversation. Has Belichicks drafting been above the NFL average in the last decade or so? Having multiple middle round picks doesn’t increase the chance that any single player will be good. Are draft picks like lottery tickets ? ( they say having more tickets in the powerball doesn’t increase your odds of winning). Or are draft picks simply currency to move around the board and get the players you want ? It’s a legitimate debate, and I’m not sure even those who fall into one camp or another actually have the answer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: I think you have to take it on a case by case basis. There are many factors, but Whaley’s move in a WR rich draft and with no proven QB should be ripped. Fair but Watkins was fair and away the best in that draft (ODJ wasn’t that great in college. Personally, I wanted Evans) and he was getting a receiver for his 2nd year qb. If the Bills did that for Allen, I won’t love it but I would understand. But I certainly get why people didn’t like him doing. But we traded up for Zay and Edmunds when arguably better players got drafted after (100% in Zay’s case but I do like Edmunds). But that’s the risk in those moves. And just be consistent in how you approach things. It’s like everything your ex does was terrible but your new girl is doing the same stuff but you are fine with it. I don’t want a trade up in the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Logic said: That's pretty wild. Also I googled Baker Mayfield and April 9. April 9 is the day he visited the Bills. Maybe that picture is legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Fair but Watkins was fair and away the best in that draft (ODJ wasn’t that great in college. Personally, I wanted Evans) and he was getting a receiver for his 2nd year qb. If the Bills did that for Allen, I won’t love it but I would understand. But I certainly get why people didn’t like him doing. But we traded up for Zay and Edmunds when arguably better players got drafted after (100% in Zay’s case but I do like Edmunds). But that’s the risk in those moves. And just be consistent in how you approach things. It’s like everything your ex does was terrible but your new girl is doing the same stuff but you are fine with it. I don’t want a trade up in the first. It’s a fair point that Watkins certainly was regarding as such heading into that draft. There’s a lot of happenstance that shaped or reinforced peoples opinions on the move after OBJ broke out. It’s not like half the board were calling for Beckham. From memory there were more wanting Evans than OBJ. If EJ was good or Watkins put up OBJ numbers, Whaley’s move would be praised or at least the criticism would be quickly forgotten. A move up could be a good move, even for a non QB like a pass rusher. The price, team status / needs and talent of said player all factor in to that move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 53 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Doug Whaley is such an idiot for trading up in the draft. McBeane are geniuses for trading up for the 3rd time in 3 years! Doug Whaley traded up for a WR when we had no serviceable QB. McBeane traded up for a QB and a MLB. BIG difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: But does it really ? Or is this just some sports talking head drivel to drive conversation. Has Belichicks drafting been above the NFL average in the last decade or so? Having multiple middle round picks doesn’t increase the chance that any single player will be good. Are draft picks like lottery tickets ? ( they say having more tickets in the powerball doesn’t increase your odds of winning). Or are draft picks simply currency to move around the board and get the players you want ? It’s a legitimate debate, and I’m not sure even those who fall into one camp or another actually have the answer. Fair but you get more chances. Is Edmunds going to be that much better than LVE or Leonard? If the Bills day put, they have an extra pick that could have been a starting o linemen (lots of o linemen are found in middle rounds). I just dont think its worth worth the risk. That Zay trade looks terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Wawrow is an AP reporter who covers the Bills. He is normally very reliable and will not put out anything that is not double-verified (per AP journalism standards) even when he knows the same rumors as the other guys. Posts here sometimes - reasonably thick skin and level head under his snark. That said, it should be noted that he isn't saying what the Bills will or won't do, just giving his take on probabilities. You can have an 80% probability of making a left turn and a 20% probability of making a right turn based on what's known of your route patterns, and still turn right at the next corner. He has every right to "opine." I must say that people are naturally going to assume his opinion has some basis in fact and not 100% gut. For all I know, he has an inside source leading him to this presumption. I personally don't believe a few trade up's in 2017/2018 dramatically alter the probability they'll do the same/or opposite THIS year. I like JW. Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, HappyDays said: They ripped him for trading away a future 1st rounder for a WR. If we trade a 2nd or 3rd for Oliver that is not comparable. Personally I would do it for the 3rd and a 4th thrown in. Not sure about the 2nd but I wouldn't hate it. He has the potential to be a game changing talent and we wouldn't be sacrificing the future at all. It’s easy with hindsight but Sammy was one of the most talented receivers in the draft in the last 20 years. But yeah, trading up for non qbs usually doesn’t work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, HappyDays said: That's pretty wild. Also I googled Baker Mayfield and April 9. April 9 is the day he visited the Bills. Maybe that picture is legit. I think the picture is legit. What it isn't is reflective of the final board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: Fair but you get more chances. Is Edmunds going to be that much better than LVE or Leonard? If the Bills day put, they have an extra pick that could have been a starting o linemen (lots of o linemen are found in middle rounds). I just dont think its worth worth the risk. That Zay trade looks terrible. Agreed on the Zay Jones move. The jury is out on Edmunds, but he’d have to be a multiple pro bowl player to justify it most likely. I’m still not against a move up in round one though. In any event, I think Beane and McD have an established willingness to make these kinds of moves. As Bills fans we should probably expect more of them during their tenure here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezertbill Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Based on their activity in FA it was almost a slam dunk that you could expect the Bills to go DL in the draft, especially with some studs dropping cuz of QB needs. Last year was the draft of the QB. This year it's all about DL. Although I thought they may stay at 9 or trade down and then take OL or TE, JW's narrative makes more sense. Beane is all about obtaining elite talent at the top of the draft. Remember, it was McD who traded down to 27 for Tre White. Beane has been all about trading up to get players on the board who are undervalued. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 7 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: Bosa I sort of get - if you think he's a generational passrusher. Even then, though, I don't think I'd pull the trigger. Let's say he's as good as his brother - would you trade two #1 picks and a 2nd and change for San Diego's Bosa? I wouldn't... And I sure wouldn't trade all of that to move up a few spots for an interior lineman. Again, BEST CASE scenario is the pick pans out and you owe $100+ million to an interior lineman in 4-5 years, and you still don't necessarily have a real offense... If they use the 2020 #1 to move up for anything then you know they are feeling pressure to win NOW. I don't think they have THAT MUCH pressure...........I think Allen and the offense improving significantly, actually being competitive with the Patriots in a McDermott coached game and finishing at or over .500 are probably the bars that need to be reached to prevent The Pegs from considering a change. They aren't in the position to sacrifice a season like they were in 2017 or 2018.........but they still need to acquire quite a bit more talent to start a sustained competitive run. Especially when you consider that the AFC has some loaded young teams now. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, HappyDays said: They ripped him for trading away a future 1st rounder for a WR. If we trade a 2nd or 3rd for Oliver that is not comparable. Personally I would do it for the 3rd and a 4th thrown in. Not sure about the 2nd but I wouldn't hate it. He has the potential to be a game changing talent and we wouldn't be sacrificing the future at all. I like Oliver at 9, but not in a trade up which requires forfeiture of draft assets. He has 13.5 sacks in 3 seasons at Houston. I'm just not CONVINCED he's going to be a game changer at the next level. The only guy I'd be comfortable trading up for is Allen. Edited March 30, 2019 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 49 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said: This is Beanes 2nd draft. Your math is a wee off He said McBeane not Beane alone. Many believe McDermott ran Whaley's last draft. Traded up for Zay if I recall. Biscuits math is correct! You, however, are docked 2pts on this message board SAT exam! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezertbill Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think the picture is legit. What it isn't is reflective of the final board. Photo has to be legit. It was taken weeks before the draft. Beane has confirmed that was the deal they had in place as well. Trade down to Denver for both 1's that was in place until Chubb fell to the Broncos. Plus mayfields visit was 4/9. I really thought they had Darnold and/or Mayfield ahead of Allen. It surprised me to see that Allen was their first choice. Makes me feel a whole lot better about landing him, that we didn't settle for a guy that was 2nd or 3rd down the list. 3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: I live Oliver at 9, but not in a trade up which requires forfeiture of draft assets. He has 13.5 sacks in 3 seasons at Houston. I'm just not CONVINCED he's going to be a game changer at the next level. The only guy I'd be comfortable trading up for is Allen. Oliver might be their guy, but you never know how teams value players For all we know Oliver may be high on many boards that we as fans don't realize. The draftniks think a player may fall, but guys who get paid lots of money to make these decisions may think differently. At the end of the day, if you think a player is the next All-World, you figure out a way to get him that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: I live Oliver at 9, but not in a trade up which requires forfeiture of draft assets. He has 13.5 sacks in 3 seasons at Houston. I'm just not CONVINCED he's going to be a game changer at the next level. Forget his stats, he looks like a dominant pass rusher. I'm no scout but his tape is elite. When I look at players the will be available after the 2nd round no one really jumps out to me. Give me Oliver in the 1st and the best TE or O-lineman in the 2nd, I won't care what the rest of the draft looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Forget his stats, he looks like a dominant pass rusher. I'm no scout but his tape is elite. When I look at players the will be available after the 2nd round no one really jumps out to me. Give me Oliver in the 1st and the best TE or O-lineman in the 2nd, I won't care what the rest of the draft looks like. I like Oliver quite a bit as a prospect, but the stats are a bit off-putting. For comparison, Aaron Donald put up 29.5 sacks in 4 seasons at Pitt facing better competition. Oliver was extremely disruptive and tested off the charts, which is why I'd be happy with him at 9. I'm just not willing to part with a 2nd or even a 3rd and a 4th. I feel like we have too many holes to make this kind of move for Oliver. I view Josh Allen as the best player in this draft and a game changing defensive force, so it'd be more palatable(FOR ME) if he were the trade up target. Edited March 30, 2019 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 5 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: Please no except on day 3. They will not draft 10 guys. They will package some late round picks to move up a round late. Please don't waste a day 2 pick to move up a few spots. They have holes at OT, DT, OLB, and TE and you can throw in RB and DB as well. They need those first four in the first two days. If you're approaching the draft with the mentality of filling holes, then you've already lost 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: If you're approaching the draft with the mentality of filling holes, then you've already lost I think the mentality of this regime is you trade up when need matches talent. They say they will draft BPA but they're not waiting around to find out what the BPA will be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 44 minutes ago, HappyDays said: That's pretty wild. Also I googled Baker Mayfield and April 9. April 9 is the day he visited the Bills. Maybe that picture is legit. It IS legit. It's all but verified. And given that the person who shared the picture of the employee forgot to black out his employee bar code, I'd venture to guess that this action got the leaker fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: If you're approaching the draft with the mentality of filling holes, then you've already lost If you draft players where they are ranked and that results in filling holes then you have succeeded. I would rather draft a player ranked nine on my board that fills a major need than draft a player ranked eight on my board that doesn't. Sticking with your board makes a lot of sense. But it should not be sacrosanct because the rankings are never precise. Religiously sticking to one's board without considering your needs never made complete sense to me because it is not unusual for the lower ranked player to turn out to be better than the higher ranked player. Let's not forget that where Josh Allen was drafted was not where he was ranked on the big board. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 I need more on the motivation behind this tweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeSomeProcess Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 58 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: I like Oliver quite a bit as a prospect, but the stats are a bit off-putting. For comparison, Aaron Donald put up 29.5 sacks in 4 seasons at Pitt facing better competition. Oliver was extremely disruptive and tested off the charts, which is why I'd be happy with him at 9. I'm just not willing to part with a 2nd or even a 3rd and a 4th. I feel like we have too many holes to make this kind of move for Oliver. I view Josh Allen as the best player in this draft and a game changing defensive force, so it'd be more palatable(FOR ME) if he were the trade up target. No to be far Donald had one more season to that. Oliver avg more tackles for loss than Donald and 4.5 sacks compared to AD 7. And he did this in less games 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said: No to be far Donald had one more season to that. Oliver avg more tackles for loss than Donald and 4.5 sacks compared to AD 7. And he did this in less games Love Oliver's TFL numbers. Very disruptive player. Wish he would have gotten to the QB more, but if he had, he'd probably be going 2 or 3 and the Bills would have no shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: Doug Whaley traded up for a WR when we had no serviceable QB. McBeane traded up for a QB and a MLB. BIG difference. I thought I would take this opportunity to say, I agree with you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 27 minutes ago, TPS said: I thought I would take this opportunity to say, I agree with you. And I agree with you agreeing with Joe. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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