Noah Fant - trade down and draft a difference maker

[Codyny13]

Only TE I’d take in the first is Hoch.

 

-I got Irv as my number 2

-Fant at 3

[Just Joshin']

The easy answer is not at 9.  He 's not a top 10 talent.

 

No issues in the second round but doubt he lasts.

 

So do you trade up?  If he was an all around TE then yes.  His deficiency in blocking worries me  - most of these types never become never substantially.

[WideNine]

3 hours ago, billsredneck1 said:

i get it....i want oliver @9 if that goes that way, but i just can't see taking hock that high. i still got eric ebron syndrome....and all the others. could hock be a gronk? i suppose,

but making a kickass line and pass rush is why we went after all the fa's...so we can do that. we got our lee smith in fisher. tyler kroft is a good te and croom is family? 

 

We are not the most patient fans as OBD regimes have used up much of that currency, but I thought Croom came along last year; The fumble trying to do too much aside.

 

His measurables are comparable to KBs sans the slow feet, extra weight, lack of compete....

 

I think he is that flex option TE for the Bills for now.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2019 by WideNine

[Rufridr101]

I've seen a mock with us taking alize mack

[LSHMEAB]

On 3/29/2019 at 9:10 AM, dpberr said:

In the battle of Iowa TEs, you really do have to decide between the superior athlete (Fant) and the superior football player (Hockenson).

 

Personally, if I had to choose, I'd go with Hockenson because I think he will pick up the complexity of the plays, routes, blocking assignments, etc. faster than Fant will due to being the more experienced, well rounded football player.  Hockenson won't have the hesitation Fant likely will trying to figure it all out.  

 

I think the athlete vs. player question at TE is readily apparent when you look at an Eric Ebron vs. George Kittle.  Ebron is a superior athlete to Kittle but Kittle already knew how to run routes and catch passes when he entered the league.  Ebron had to learn how to do that at a professional level "in" the league.  

I would concur with the overall assessment, but it's not that simple. Hockenson is going to be gone a good 10 spots higher than Fant so value also plays a role.

Edited March 31, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Dkollidas]

As the draft gets closer I see the Bills liking the depth of the tight end class this year. Draft two of them. Maybe Sternberger in the 2nd or 3rd. And then someone like Dawson Knox or Isaac Nauta in the 4th or 5th. They like tight ends in Daboll’s system. Bring 5 or 6 into camp and keep 4. 

[billsfan_34]

On 3/29/2019 at 11:59 AM, YoloinOhio said:

I like Fant but would not take him in the 1st. He doesn’t have great hands and I think he’s significantly less pro-ready than Hockenson. He’s a better athlete and faster but he’s not stepping in immediately ready to block at the Pro level. He has a lot of room to grow, and Nate Stanley struggled to throw the ball downfield consistently so i think he could be better utilized at the next level. He reminds me of Ebron. Which means he could go in the 1st, but i wouldn’t do it. 

 

He also had a bad day the one game Beane watched him live vs PSU. Fumbled and missed a huge assignment that led to an INT to lose game. 

 

He he has more “elite” traits than Hock but lacks polish - both are round 2 prospects imo who will go in 1st.

 

he could be the Bills version of Edmunds - very high Ceiling but somewhat of a project. If so, your scenario could certainly play out. 

Many times if you don’t have good hands coming out of college you most likely wont have great hands in the NFL. 

[CSBill]

Who is "Fisher"?

[Pete]

On 3/29/2019 at 1:27 PM, njbuff said:

The draft is still freaking four weeks away.

 

Longest wait ever between FA and the draft.

it's bull####!  The NFL drags out the draft like the Superbowl.

[JerseyBills]

I wouldn't mind this at all. Beane has done a wonderful job of giving himself the flexibility to truly go BPA , I'd just be surprised that they pass up on a blue Chip DL that will certainly be there at 9 . With 10 picks , I'd much rather grab Oliver for example at 9 and trade back into the late first and grab Noah . 

Edited March 31, 2019 by JerseyBills

[hemma]

I don’t think McDermott or Beane are going to easily forget the Patriots running it down our throats.

If a top DL guy can be had, we’ll get him.

[SouthNYfan]

9 hours ago, hemma said:

I don’t think McDermott or Beane are going to easily forget the Patriots running it down our throats.

If a top DL guy can be had, we’ll get him.

 

I also believe that their offensive system, or at least the one that daboll wants to run, is very te reliant.

Te is very important in modern NFL offense in both blocking and receiving.

They could honestly go with dline or te early, with wr being a dark horse also.

I think those are the only positions in play, at least in the first 2 picks

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Charles Davis mock today has Bills taking Fant at #9.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001025021/article/charles-davis-2019-nfl-mock-draft-20-bengals-broncos-go-qb

Now as I posted, I would trade down and take Fant a little lower. But at least one person agrees with me.

What is the board's opinion of Davis? To be honest I never that much of his assessments which are only slightly better than his color analyst skills.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...professing my ignorance up front because I don't get to see college ball, it seems like our collegiate ball "in the know" posters (I depend on them) have Hock as the runaway TE leader draftee...yet Davis has Fant at #9 and Hock at #18....does it make any sense?.....

[Ethan in Cleveland]

19 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...professing my ignorance up front because I don't get to see college ball, it seems like our collegiate ball "in the know" posters (I depend on them) have Hock as the runaway TE leader draftee...yet Davis has Fant at #9 and Hock at #18....does it make any sense?.....

I think most agree Hockenson is a more complete TE but I believe most feel Fant has more downfield explosiveness. 

The Bills have enough blocking with the kid from Cinci. My take is they need a guy that can create mismatches against both LB and safeties.

[LABILLBACKER]

We've had so many mediocre TE's over the last 20 years I think we finally deserve a shot at Hock (9) or Fant on a trade down. Both these guys can block and catch.  If we don't go the obvious route of DL, then let it be one of these 2....

[SouthNYfan]

I'm tired of people coming up with fantasies to trade down for a specific player.

If you trade down there is no guarantee your guy will be there, so you don't "trade back for player X" you have to say "I'm going to trade back and be okay taking playerX, player Y, player Z, player A or player B" at that spot/value

 

If you don't have a pupu platter you are okay choosing from at a specific spot that you trade back to then it's not worth it.

[Sherlock Holmes]

55 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...professing my ignorance up front because I don't get to see college ball, it seems like our collegiate ball "in the know" posters (I depend on them) have Hock as the runaway TE leader draftee...yet Davis has Fant at #9 and Hock at #18....does it make any sense?.....

Nope, Hock is the Best overall TE... and we need to find a way to get him.

[SouthNYfan]

42 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I think most agree Hockenson is a more complete TE but I believe most feel Fant has more downfield explosiveness. 

The Bills have enough blocking with the kid from Cinci. My take is they need a guy that can create mismatches against both LB and safeties.

 

Saying they have enough blocking with the kid from Cincinnati doesn't make sense

If the other team knows that kroft is primarily a blocker then it kind of gives away what play style you're running when you have him on the field vs the receiving te 

That's why a guy like hock (and gronk) is so valuable, they are 3 down players who create confusion between whether they will be blocking, receiving, or both on that play

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

45 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

I'm tired of people coming up with fantasies to trade down for a specific player.

If you trade down there is no guarantee your guy will be there, so you don't "trade back for player X" you have to say "I'm going to trade back and be okay taking playerX, player Y, player Z, player A or player B" at that spot/value

 

If you don't have a pupu platter you are okay choosing from at a specific spot that you trade back to then it's not worth it.

Of course there is no guarantee and you always have to have plan B. But if Hockenson and Fant are both gone by say 15 then there is a good chance a high quality DL is available.  You have to see how it all plays out. But if two QBs go in the top 8 and a team like Denver wants a QB then you can make a move. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

36 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Saying they have enough blocking with the kid from Cincinnati doesn't make sense

If the other team knows that kroft is primarily a blocker then it kind of gives away what play style you're running when you have him on the field vs the receiving te 

That's why a guy like hock (and gronk) is so valuable, they are 3 down players who create confusion between whether they will be blocking, receiving, or both on that play

 

 

Kroft is supposed to be a capable reciever. He better be for what they paid him. 

Antonio Gates is a first ballot HOF TE who was never an elite blocker. 

Fant and Kroft would be the Bills version of Gronk and Hernandez. 

I honestly would be happy with Hockenson too.  

All that being said, I suspect McBeane will sit tight at 9 and take a defensive lineman.

[Dr. Who]

Fant at nine seems like a huge outlier. I am interested in Fant if you are trading up into the back of the first to get him. I don't see how you pass on the DL talent likely to be available at the top of the draft.

[SouthNYfan]

10 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Of course there is no guarantee and you always have to have plan B. But if Hockenson and Fant are both gone by say 15 then there is a good chance a high quality DL is available.  You have to see how it all plays out. But if two QBs go in the top 8 and a team like Denver wants a QB then you can make a move. 

 

Right

I'm just saying your can't expect to target one player in a trade back, you need to have multiple options you're happy with at that value.

If you move from #9 to #15 you need to have 7 guys you're willing to take on your board #15 because there is a chance that 6 of them might already be gone.

 

Just now, Ethan in Portland said:

Kroft is supposed to be a capable reciever. He better be for what they paid him. 

Antonio Gates is a first ballot HOF TE who was never an elite blocker. 

Fant and Kroft would be the Bills version of Gronk and Hernandez. 

I honestly would be happy with Hockenson too.  

All that being said, I suspect McBeane will sit tight at 9 and take a defensive lineman.

 

Kroft from what I've seen is more a blocker then receiver (but not bad at either)

I also think you misunderstood me in regards to what makes a great tight end.

Gates not being a great blocker was fine and he was a ridiculously good receiver.

My point was they didn't really utilize another te from what I remember, and that was their system.

I'm saying that you don't want to be like "oh I have this guy for my running/blocking plays and this guy for my passing plays"

If you're rotating that often then you can run into problems.

Gronk and Hernandez were both excellent blockers and receivers.

 

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Charles Davis mock today has Bills taking Fant at #9.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001025021/article/charles-davis-2019-nfl-mock-draft-20-bengals-broncos-go-qb

Now as I posted, I would trade down and take Fant a little lower. But at least one person agrees with me.

What is the board's opinion of Davis? To be honest I never that much of his assessments which are only slightly better than his color analyst skills.

Charles Davis’ father was my economics teacher at New Paltz High School, where Charles jr was all state in football and basketball.  The played football at Tennessee and a short short time for the cowboys before changing paths.  He’s a class act and I love listening to him, of the NFLN draft analysts, I’d say Charles is one of the least knowledgeable regarding prospects.  I believe he really showed us this by selecting Fant at 9.  No friggin way.  Sorry Charles, 

[LSHMEAB]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Charles Davis’ father was my economics teacher at New Paltz High School, where Charles jr was all state in football and basketball.  The played football at Tennessee and a short short time for the cowboys before changing paths.  He’s a class act and I love listening to him, of the NFLN draft analysts, I’d say Charles is one of the least knowledgeable regarding prospects.  I believe he really showed us this by selecting Fant at 9.  No friggin way.  Sorry Charles, 

I agree that Fant would represent poor value at 9. I will say that as much as the board loves Hockenson, I wouldn't be shocked to see Fant go before him.

 

The NFL loves "upside."

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I agree that Fant would represent poor value at 9. I will say that as much as the board loves Hockenson, I wouldn't be shocked to see Fant go before him.

 

The NFL loves "upside."

I’d be sick over it.  While I’d consider Hockenson a reach at 9, I’d be happy to have him in a Bills uniform.  Blocking matters.  

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’d be sick over it.  While I’d consider Hockenson a reach at 9, I’d be happy to have him in a Bills uniform.  Blocking matters.  

This. Give me Hock all day over Fant. Not even close.
 

[Yoho]

It seems that every draft, there are a variety of savior tight ends that fans are clamoring for.  I still remember the hubbub when we didn't draft Kyle Brady, not to mention Kellen Winslow Jr.  Tight ends are like running backs, they emerge from strange places, think Jimmy Graham and Antonio Gates.  On top of it, tight ends are on the field about 50% of the plays in the new world of 4 WR pass offense and half that time it is for running plays.   I hope we draft a TE but I doubt it will be a first rounder.

[LSHMEAB]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

This. Give me Hock all day over Fant. Not even close.
 

Yeah. That's what I was driving at. If you polled the board, it would be nearly unanimous for Hock over Fant. Was just opining that it wouldn't shock me if Fant went before him. I don't personally the Bills are targeting either player.

 

I get the sense based on their visits that they're looking at the position later in the draft. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Logic]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

Yeah. That's what I was driving at. If you polled the board, it would be nearly unanimous for Hock over Fant. Was just opining that it wouldn't shock me if Fant went before him. I don't personally the Bills are targeting either player.

I think you're correct on both counts.

It's clear to me the Bills will draft a tight end, but it's a lot harder to predict which one. Irv Smith or Dawson Knox are my current best guesses.

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

I think you're correct on both counts.

It's clear to me the Bills will draft a tight end, but it's a lot harder to predict which one. Irv Smith or Dawson Knox are my current best guesses.

I thought it was interesting that the only TE visit I've seen was Nauta from Georgia. Perhaps they've made some moves since then, but I haven't seen it.

 

Nauta seems like a well rounded TE. Whether it be Sternberger, Smith, Wilson, Knox or Nuata is anyone's guess. 

 

Overall, I just don't see them going TE in the first round which I glean you're sensing as well.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Would rather sit tight at 9 and grab probably Oliver and then trade back into the 1st round for a TE, preferably targeting Hockenson.

[Dr. Who]

21 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Would rather sit tight at 9 and grab probably Oliver and then trade back into the 1st round for a TE, preferably targeting Hockenson.

I prefer Hockenson to Fant, but I think Hockenson goes too early for a feasible trade up. There is a chance, however, as some have speculated, that Fant goes before him.

[Logic]

49 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I thought it was interesting that the only TE visit I've seen was Nauta from Georgia. Perhaps they've made some moves since then, but I haven't seen it.

 

Nauta seems like a well rounded TE. Whether it be Sternberger, Smith, Wilson, Knox or Nuata is anyone's guess. 

 

Overall, I just don't see them going TE in the first round which I glean you're sensing as well.

Indeed. Beane and McDermott don't seem like "tight end in the 1st" types to me. Ditto for WR, actually.

I have expected all along and continue to suspect that it will be a defensive tackle or edge rusher. Nothing has changed.

I also know they can't be happy with just Kroft, Croom, and Fisher. Hard to read the tea leaves on who they like in the draft, though, for the reason you mentioned.

[Mat68]

4 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...professing my ignorance up front because I don't get to see college ball, it seems like our collegiate ball "in the know" posters (I depend on them) have Hock as the runaway TE leader draftee...yet Davis has Fant at #9 and Hock at #18....does it make any sense?.....

Right now Hockenson is a better blocker.  He has the higher floor.  Worst case he is a 10 to 12 year pro barring injury.  Font has rare ability for a TE.  He was OJ Howard but with production.  He lined up all over the place.  Games I watched last year it seemed Font was regarded as the higher prospect.  After the playoffs guys imo are projecting that Hockenson is a great blocker and are harping on it because Gronk blocked so well for NE in the playoffs.  Font when asked was not a poor blocker but he wasnt asked to do it as often because he was usually the flex TE while Hockinson was the in line TE.  

Edited April 4, 2019 by Mat68

[njbuff]

The Bills can find a quality starting TE in the mid rounds in this draft.

 

That's where a lot of NFL starting TE's are found anyways.

 

Very few Kellen Winslow Sr's out there who were high draft picks at TE and immediately turned into superstars.

[Yoho]

2010'was the year Gronk and Graham were drafted.  They were picked right after Jeremy Gresham and Ed Dickson.   It's a crapshoot 

[XABI64]

no thanks

 

he can't block. TE's who can't block don't last long in this league. Hockenson is one of the best TE prospects to come out in years. he has everything. no way you take Fant above him lol

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, njbuff said:

The Bills can find a quality starting TE in the mid rounds in this draft.

 

That's where a lot of NFL starting TE's are found anyways.

 

Very few Kellen Winslow Sr's out there who were high draft picks at TE and immediately turned into superstars.

Jeremy Shockey was drafted 14th, was ROY, and made the Pro Bowl as a rookie and subsequently 4 of his first 5 seasons.

1 hour ago, Yoho said:

2010'was the year Gronk and Graham were drafted.  They were picked right after Jeremy Gresham and Ed Dickson.   It's a crapshoot 

Dickson was so good at Oregon.  I thought he would be better in the NFL.  He has stuck around for a while but has never been even mediocre.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

Indeed. Beane and McDermott don't seem like "tight end in the 1st" types to me. Ditto for WR, actually.

I have expected all along and continue to suspect that it will be a defensive tackle or edge rusher. Nothing has changed.

I also know they can't be happy with just Kroft, Croom, and Fisher. Hard to read the tea leaves on who they like in the draft, though, for the reason you mentioned.

They didn't draft him but Greg Olsen was a first round draft pick.  And McD has praised his presence on the Panthers.

 "Yeah, I liked it when we were on offense, when it was third and about five, I knew we were going to go get a first down because we had Greg Olsen, McDermott started. "At an early age, I feel like that I learned how important that tight end position is to a quarterback and a particular young quarterback. It becomes a security blanket."

 

If you believe Beane and his BPA talk, then you should believe he would take BPA regardless of position.

I'm not disagreeing with you and I think it will be DL/Edge in the first round.  

But it would be nice for once in the history of this franchise to have a dominant TE.