MJS Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Búfalo Blanco said: When's the last time our team did that...? 7 years ago...? Might as well be 60 here. Nobody would be complaining with his record in Buffalo. Yeah, seven years ago was sooooo 18th century... talk about a short attention span. Are you claiming that Flacco has been a good QB in recent seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsSB2020 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 8 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: This is so Elway. He has no clue how to draft and develop a QB. As I've heard on Twitter and it rings true in a comical way, Elway appears to want to ensure that he's the greatest QB in Broncos history! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Búfalo Blanco Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 19 minutes ago, dubs said: Benny from the Bronx, i think the point is, yes Flacco had some great runs, but that was a long time ago and it doesn’t appear he’s even close to that player anymore. Joe Namath was a Super Bowl MVP QB - do you want him to trot out as the starting QB for the Bills in 2019? Wow... there's an argument. Namath eh? Didn't realize Flacco was in his 70s... Talk about false comparisons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Reports on the local news outlets in Denver that Flacco's contract will NOT be re-done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Búfalo Blanco Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, MJS said: Are you claiming that Flacco has been a good QB in recent seasons? I'm saying he has been a very good QB over his entire career and has the experience of beating great teams, on the road when it mattered. Elway isn't looking for Mahomes... He's looking for a good game manager with experience. Flacco has proven to be that and be efficient. That's what he did in Baltimore and that's the philosophy Denver won a championship with in 2015. So, good match. Edited February 14, 2019 by Búfalo Blanco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 9 hours ago, Leonhart2017 said: Hopefully they are still in the market for a long term QB so they will still want to move up in the draft. I think they go defense and help Von Miller out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Búfalo Blanco said: Let me ask you this... The Broncos have to pay him NO guaranteed money (assuming there's no new negotiations) and have allegedly given up only a 4th rd pick. With a thin QB draft class and a Broncos team that (as I explained) would rather win now, while they still have some great veterans... where's the risk? Free agency doesn't look so great for QB options... The fact remains, he can't play anymore. He overachieved for two years. Great playoff run. T hats it. Reminds me of Mark Rypien. He's toast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Búfalo Blanco Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, BuffAlone said: The fact remains, he can't play anymore. He overachieved for two years. Great playoff run. T hats it. Reminds me of Mark Rypien. He's toast A fact...? Alright Bill Polian... I guess Elway has nothing on your expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo86 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Flacco going to Denver is good news for anyone who wants to sign John Brown. Any chance of Brown following Flacco wherever he goes probably just flew out the window, as Brown's Sickle cell condition & the high altitude of Denver would not be a good pairing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Búfalo Blanco said: A fact...? Alright Bill Polian... I guess Elway has nothing on your expertise. Polian didn't draft Kelly..but he knew enough to get him signed. And enough to take Reich with him to Carolina. And then drafted Peyton Manning. What is your argument??? Elway has not done squat at the one and only position he ever played. Say what you want...Elway is far inferior to Polian as far as evaluating talent at QB. Elway drafted Paxton Lynch. Signed Peyton. And then tried Keenum. Lmao. Its not even close! And this is evidence.he's gonna lose his job after this year. Ok...maybe not evidence, but obvious Edited February 14, 2019 by BuffAlone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Búfalo Blanco Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, BuffAlone said: Polian didn't draft Kelly..but he knew enough to get him signed. And enough to take Reich with him to Carolina. And then drafted Peyton Manning. What is your argument??? Elway has not done squat at the one and only position he ever played. Say what you want...Elway is far inferior to Polian as far as evaluating talent at QB. Elway drafted Paxton Lynch. Signed Peyton. And then tried Keenum. Lmao. Its not even close! And this is evidence.he's gonna lose his job after this year. Ok...maybe not evidence, but obvious Comparing Polian to Elway was not my argument... I was referring to you and your "facts". Elway has a been quite successful in Denver as GM. Since 2011, he has four division titles, two AFC Championships, two Super Bowl appearances and one Lombardi trophy. In trading for Flacco, not only is he not giving up much (assuming it's just a 4th rd pick) or paying anything in guarantees... he's also following the same model he did in 2015, which won the Super Bowl. Bring in a game managing, efficient and experienced QB to go along with a very good defense and good running game. If he adds to that defense in the offseason, like he did before and works on his offensive line through FA and the draft, Denver could contend again. In 8 seasons as GM, he has done more for the Broncos than anyone has for our favorite franchise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Búfalo Blanco said: Comparing Polian to Elway was not my argument... I was referring to you and your "facts". Elway has a been quite successful in Denver as GM. Since 2011, he has four division titles, two AFC Championships, two Super Bowl appearances and one Lombardi trophy. In trading for Flacco, not only is he not giving up much (assuming it's just a 4th rd pick) or paying anything in guarantees... he's also following the same model he did in 2015, which won the Super Bowl. Bring in a game managing, efficient and experienced QB to go along with a very good defense and good running game. If he adds to that defense in the offseason, like he did before and works on his offensive line through FA and the draft, Denver could contend again. In 8 seasons as GM, he has done more for the Broncos than anyone has for our favorite franchise... He can't find a QB. Period! T hats the fact that you don't see. Polian was brought up by YOU...NOT ME. This point was about Flacco....not the rest of the team. Hello?? Are we there yet?? Fact is, Flacco had a good run in the playoffs. So did Rypien. So did Dilfer. So did Doug Williams. They weren't great QB's. And fizzled out. that's my point. Elway hasn't shown ***** outside of that. Can we agree on that? Cuz that's a FACT Edited February 14, 2019 by BuffAlone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Oh my....maybe I've had too much coffee tonight lol 7 minutes ago, BuffAlone said: He can't find a QB. Period! T hats the fact t 27 minutes ago, Búfalo Blanco said: Comparing Polian to Elway was not my argument... I was referring to you and your "facts". Elway has a been quite successful in Denver as GM. Since 2011, he has four division titles, two AFC Championships, two Super Bowl appearances and one Lombardi trophy. In trading for Flacco, not only is he not giving up much (assuming it's just a 4th rd pick) or paying anything in guarantees... he's also following the same model he did in 2015, which won the Super Bowl. Bring in a game managing, efficient and experienced QB to go along with a very good defense and good running game. If he adds to that defense in the offseason, like he did before and works on his offensive line through FA and the draft, Denver could contend again. In 8 seasons as GM, he has done more for the Broncos than anyone has for our favorite franchise... hat you don't see. Polian was brought up by YOU...NOT ME. This point was about Flacco....not the rest of the team. Hello?? Are we there yet?? Fact is, Flacco had a good run in the playoffs. So did Rypien. So did Dilfer. So did Doug Williams. They weren't great QB's. And fizzled out. that's my point. Elway hasn't shown ***** outside of that. Can we agree on that? Cuz that's a FACT You came at me sarcastically. Calling out my "expertise" . calling me Polian. Speaking facts. What's a matter sunshine? Ain't that what was said? I'm not seeing your confusion. I broke it down in the most lamen of terms I know how....what's the issue???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Búfalo Blanco Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, BuffAlone said: He can't find a QB. Period! T hats the fact that you don't see. Polian was brought up by YOU...NOT ME. This point was about Flacco....not the rest of the team. Hello?? Are we there yet?? Fact is, Flacco had a good run in the playoffs. So did Rypien. So did Dilfer. So did Doug Williams. They weren't great QB's. And fizzled out. that's my point. Elway hasn't shown ***** outside of that. Can we agree on that? Cuz that's a FACT ???? Oh man... Oh, I just can’t... Ok, forget anything that was said about Polian, eh? Yeah, you’re absolutely right... Elway has not drafted the next Tom Brady... therefore, he absolutely sucks as a GM. Forget the SB win... he’s horrible. Fluke.. You got me, man. Flacco is a disgrace... complete luck that he got a ring. It was all Ray Lewis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Búfalo Blanco said: ???? Oh man... Oh, I just can’t... Ok, forget anything that was said about Polian, eh? Yeah, you’re absolutely right... Elway has not drafted the next Tom Brady... therefore, he absolutely sucks as a GM. Forget the SB win... he’s horrible. Fluke.. You got me, man. Flacco is a disgrace... complete luck that he got a ring. It was all Ray Lewis... Ttrivial b.s.. What I said was, he cannot go find a QB. And Flacco will be amongst his failures in that department as well. Lol. He no doubt built a great defense, won a super bowl, but this thread is about Flacco...who CAN NOT PLAY ANYMORE. Do we understand each other now? Edited February 14, 2019 by BuffAlone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Elway grasping at straws. There's not another Peyton Manning available to bail him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 3 hours ago, Búfalo Blanco said: I'm saying he has been a very good QB over his entire career and has the experience of beating great teams, on the road when it mattered. Elway isn't looking for Mahomes... He's looking for a good game manager with experience. Flacco has proven to be that and be efficient. That's what he did in Baltimore and that's the philosophy Denver won a championship with in 2015. So, good match. I think the point that most people are making is that Flacco, despite career successes, is CURRENTLY not very good. I agree with that sentiment. He will put together a couple good games a season, but is usually mediocre of late. I put him in a similar boat as Eli Manning. Both have been good, both have won Superbowls, but both are now not very good. Flacco has always been really good in the post season, but less good in the regular season. 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: Well, Keenum had a career year in 2017. That year was a statistical anomaly and ultimately got him his contract in Denver. Looking at the past two years is definitely cherry picking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceman_16 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 7 hours ago, KD in CA said: Yeah, not sure I understand the reactions here. Flacco is a day 1 starter while a rookie holds the clipboard and learns (like QBs used to do). BUT didn't they already have that with Keenum AND they would have kept their draft pick and save money on their cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezertbill Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 13 hours ago, mjt328 said: I guess the possible Free Agents can be looked at as a positive. But it's definitely a negative for anyone hoping for a trade-down, or for more non-QB talent to drop in the draft. The QB needy teams now stand as: #6 - New York Giants #7 - Jacksonville Jaguars #13 - Miami Dolphins #15 - Washington Redskins Out best bet was for either the Dolphins or Redskins to make a move to get ahead of Denver (drafting at #10). It's still possible that Washington tries to move ahead of Miami. But now they have other teams like Denver, Cincinnati and Green Bay to negotiate with, which drives down the price we can ask. I believe Foles has a greater effect on the QB market than Flacco. Not sure many teams were interested in a 34 year old QB who's stats were declining with a bloated contract when you can draft a young stud for value over the next 5 years that can be a better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 17 hours ago, Mark80 said: Are you really comparing Peyton and Flacco? Please tell me this is sarcasm and i just missed it. No, he was not comparing them. He said nothing about Flacco in that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Some early commentary on the trade from Barnwell : http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25988157/grading-joe-flacco-trade-ravens-broncos-how-did-denver-get-here Broncos get a D+ and Ravens get a B+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 One of the criticisms of Keenum is he couldn't stretch the field so I guess acquiring Flacco makes sense as he has no guaranteed money left on his deal. Will pry draft a QB this year obviously as he'll be a stopgap QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: How about 4 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 15 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said: He's not Buddy Nix-drafting a QB because he "has to". In a bad QB draft where any decent QB will be gone by the time he picks and in no mood to trade up in this class what else is he supposed to do? The smart thing is to do what Buddy should have-have a veteran start this season & wait until next year. If Elway really likes someone next year, then draft him, otherwise if Flacco works out he sticks with him, if not, major tank in 2020 for Lawrence. I would bet this QB draft turns into any other, “average”. You’ll get 1-2 decent starters out of it. Maybe one guy will surprise and actually be good. The rest will bust. Ho hum just another year in the NFL draft. Major tanking is not really a thing in the NFL. With no draft lottery you have to out tank 31 other teams, while keeping your job in the process. It is next to impossible to accurately tank and keep your job. Elway hasn’t drafted a good QB since... ever. He’s tried it five times and failed miserably. Actually, looking back, maybe he just realizes he’s terrible at drafting QB’s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bills2ref said: I would bet this QB draft turns into any other, “average”. You’ll get 1-2 decent starters out of it. Maybe one guy will surprise and actually be good. The rest will bust. Ho hum just another year in the NFL draft. Major tanking is not really a thing in the NFL. With no draft lottery you have to out tank 31 other teams, while keeping your job in the process. It is next to impossible to accurately tank and keep your job. Elway hasn’t drafted a good QB since... ever. He’s tried it five times and failed miserably. Actually, looking back, maybe he just realizes he’s terrible at drafting QB’s? I wouldn't say he's failed miserably with the 5 QBs drafted. Has he failed? Yes, but 3 of those 5 were just 7th round flyers. I don't think you can count a 7th rounder, including one Mr. Irrelevant, as a failure. Nobody is counting on a 7th round QB to turn a franchise around, all those 3 7th rounders were, were shots at a dart board. The fact that one actually started a season & is still in the NFL is beating the odds. Now his 2 higher picks were failures, especially trading up in the 1st round to draft Lynch, but there are a lot of GMs who have blown 1st rounders on QBs and survived. Osweiller has performed like a lot of 2nd round QBs, drafted to develop, left the team as an overrated free agent and proved not to be the answer. Considering that around 70% of the starting QBs in the NFL today are former 1st round picks, I don't hold a non 1st round QB pick as a failure. So IMO, Elway really failed only once, not 5 times. Where Elway blew it was last year. He was sitting at 5 and decided against drafting a QB. He could have easily traded up & aced out the Jets if he wanted a top QB in a top QB draft. If the Bills were right on Allen, or even Arizona on Rosen, then Elway blew it taking Chubb. Also, no matter how he did it, Elway got the Broncos to 2 AFC titles including a championship. If we had a GM who came in, beat NE twice in AFC championship games & brought the Lombardi Trophy to Buffalo, we'd be erecting a statue of him at 1 Bills Drive & not picking on him for 7th round flyers. Edited February 14, 2019 by Albany,n.y. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakrider Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Flacco doesn't seem to have much mobility. But Keenum is about the worst 3rd down QB in the league. Overall should be a slight upgrade for Broncos. The only reason Elway got Keenum because he was one of only very few QB's available, but he wasn't any better than Trevor Siemian was. Broncos won't likely take a QB in first round because they can't afford another Paxton Lynch debacle. But they might take a Drew Lock in round 2 if available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, dakrider said: Flacco doesn't seem to have much mobility That's like saying water doesn't seem to have much dryness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 Vegas odds to win SB got worse after this trade. From 100-1 to 125-1. https://twitter.com/nickgriffithtv/status/1095806267615076352?s=21 fyi at Westgate there was much “meh” as they stayed at 60-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Vegas odds to win SB got worse after this trade. From 100-1 to 125-1. https://twitter.com/nickgriffithtv/status/1095806267615076352?s=21 fyi at Westgate there was much “meh” as they stayed at 60-1. But I read here that Flacco would benefit from Denver's veterans and magically improve even though he has been crap for a long time=) So shouldn't those odds go up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 19 hours ago, Rico said: Shhhh. I’m waiting for some nitwit to rant on the “Beane is a genius” line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 8 hours ago, dezertbill said: I believe Foles has a greater effect on the QB market than Flacco. Not sure many teams were interested in a 34 year old QB who's stats were declining with a bloated contract when you can draft a young stud for value over the next 5 years that can be a better player. I agree about Nick Foles. The problem is... before the Flacco trade, the draft placement for Denver was perfect for us. If you are looking for a trade-down, the best place to be is 1-2 spots before a team that needs a Quarterback. Miami and Washington no longer have the incentive to move into the Top 10, unless Denver can still convince everyone they will still be taking a QB at #10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 10 hours ago, dezertbill said: I believe Foles has a greater effect on the QB market than Flacco. Not sure many teams were interested in a 34 year old QB who's stats were declining with a bloated contract when you can draft a young stud for value over the next 5 years that can be a better player. Theres rumored mutual interest between the Jags and Foles right now. Wonder if a deal might be worked out that unloads some salary being moved to the Eagles if it were to go down (maybe someone like Dareus is part of the deal with a pick?) 12 hours ago, aceman_16 said: BUT didn't they already have that with Keenum AND they would have kept their draft pick and save money on their cap? Keenum had one good year in his career, Flacco has been good for many more years and actually won stuff. Keenum was bad last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 57 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: Theres rumored mutual interest between the Jags and Foles right now. Wonder if a deal might be worked out that unloads some salary being moved to the Eagles if it were to go down (maybe someone like Dareus is part of the deal with a pick?) Keenum had one good year in his career, Flacco has been good for many more years and actually won stuff. Keenum was bad last year. And he wasn't even that good....he played on a team with the #1 defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 16 hours ago, MJS said: I think the point that most people are making is that Flacco, despite career successes, is CURRENTLY not very good. I agree with that sentiment. He will put together a couple good games a season, but is usually mediocre of late. I put him in a similar boat as Eli Manning. Both have been good, both have won Superbowls, but both are now not very good. Flacco has always been really good in the post season, but less good in the regular season. Well, Keenum had a career year in 2017. That year was a statistical anomaly and ultimately got him his contract in Denver. Looking at the past two years is definitely cherry picking. Actually just makes Flacco's worst comparable to Keenum's best lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said: Actually just makes Flacco's worst comparable to Keenum's best lol Yeah. That's my point. The question going into last season was if Keenum could repeat hit good year, and he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 hour ago, KD in CA said: And he wasn't even that good....he played on a team with the #1 defense. As did Flacco last year, no? Til he got hurt and then benched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 On 2/13/2019 at 12:05 PM, Wo-Bah said: Does this mean Baltimore is sold on Lamar Jackson? Because I sure am not. Harbaugh tried to reach you but the line was busy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 the Broncos had all the juice in the world to take a QB last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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