SoCal Deek Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 The refs won this one. Clear interference on the goal line on the play before the INT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLBighits Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 3 hours ago, aristocrat said: Discuss Refs n League can win you a championship;) neither team belonged in the big game, on a true note yes it definitely helps. Quarterback plain and simple and thank God we finally have one in Josh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrb1979 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, NFLBighits said: Refs n League can win you a championship;) neither team belonged in the big game, on a true note yes it definitely helps. Quarterback plain and simple and thank God we finally hope we have one in Josh! Fixed it for you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Still have to have a good offense. I think this game showed that a good running game is vital and a special teams dynamo like Slater goes a long ways. McD knows what he is doing and what it takes to win. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Tonight was on McVay. 100%. Pure and simple. His gamplan sucked. His play calling sucked. His adjustments sucked. Of anything Goff was held back tonight by a complete coaching bottle job. McVay was like a deer in headlights. He froze. Fixed, fixed i say !! 3 hours ago, Les Vegetables said: It seems like it depends on the time of season for defenses to dominate. The refs throw a lot of unnecessary flags in the regular season (especially early weeks) that heavily favors the offense. The playoffs prove to be the opposite, as we’ve seen multiple non-call situations that give the defenses the edge and opportunity to play aggressive. I have no stats to back this up and I’m in favor of letting the players play, just observations from watching games. Refs should always stay this invisible. The offenses would catch up and wouldn't be so low scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Búfalo Blanco Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 5 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said: I admit I was wrong about defense not mattering anymore, but Goff was exposed today. He is not a great QB. He is a good QB who can be enhanced by a great coach. He missed a lot of throws today. Oh, now you admit it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, mjd1001 said: Defense CAN win championships...but in todays NFL...it usually doesn't. One or two great defensive performance in the last decade do not prove defense wins championships. Except it’s happened a LOT more than that over the last decade. Pats this year along with Broncos, Seahawks, Giants twice, and Ravens..and that’s just off the top of my head. 10 hours ago, mjd1001 said: 6 of the last 10 winning superbowl teams before tonight scored over 30. 6 of the last 11 including tonight. 6 of 11 beats 5 of 10. Someone else did the research on this (read it online, I'll try to find the article to link) but of the recent superbowls...the winning team more often than not had a higher league rank in offense than they did in defense. I'm not sure how far back the study goes, which is why I'll try to find the article. That’s not how you gauge this at all. For example, the 2013 Broncos set all the NFL scoring records and then got blown out 41-8 by defensive monster Seahawks. You’re counting that as if offense was more important and not the fact that the Legion of Boom shut down the greatest offense in NFL history allowing just 8 points. You guys are inaccurately presenting your “facts” and miscrediting things as a result. Edited February 4, 2019 by Alphadawg7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 8 hours ago, aristocrat said: When was the last time a number one offense won the super bowl? Year Team Offensive Ranking Defensive Ranking 1993 Cowboys 2 6 1994 49ers 1 6 1995 Cowboys 1 9 1996 Packers 1 2 1997 Broncos 1 6 1999 Rams 1 2 2001 Patriots 7 6 2004 Patriots 5 4 2005 Steelers 6 4 2010 Packers 8 1 2013 Seahawks 9 1 2014 Patriots 3 8 2016 Patriots 5 1 2017 Eagles 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 8 hours ago, Steptide said: I feel like if the saints played in this game, they woulda won by 30 Maybe not by 30 but they would have won. There's no way they would hold Brees to 3 points. The And I do hope the "defense is dead" crowd pays a little attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 maybe you have to be good on both sides of the ball? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said: You have already seen the all 22? The play calling was a freakin joke , I know Goff missed couple of opportunities but for ALL THE PRAISE that McOYWAY been getting as some kind of ( God like ) when it comes to offense , BB just proved that defenses still win SB’s , well bottom line he GOT schooled and is back to earth NOW !!! ( me personally) What really hurts now is that NO Call against the Saints, should have been Brees playing in this SB I’m sure it would have been more entertaining , Edited February 4, 2019 by Putin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 After watching patriots** in this playoffs & SB run , im sure we can all agree on > while we start building our offense ( in this offseason) we should/must keep on upgrading our defense especially in the trenches , 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 This is typical American, circa 2019, where everything is a black or white dichotomy. Here in WNY's football conversation, this is lead by the regurgitators at WGR55, who read what other people say and then say that. The analytics are focused, at least as these fools portray it, on offense and throwing the football and of course, going for it on 4th. And so you MJST have an offense that throws it all the time lead by a QB with a high completion percentage. So the hypocritical irony is the same people on the radio and elsewhere who complain about copycat football are advocated for exactly that for their team, whichever it is. So the model everyone wants today is a young QB on his rookie deal who can sling the ball around to weapons everywhere and then use the remaining salary for keeping you good vets and select FA expenditures, preferably on offense first. In the last two years, this approach is best exemplified by the Rams and Eagles. But here's the point that everyone either misses or chooses to ignore. Coaching and talent win over the long haul. Not a team focused on one side of the ball. Patriots are the proof. They've been in 4 of the last 5 Super Bowls. They've won three. And they've won it with bad defense and good defense.They've won against tough defenses (Rams) and not so tough defenses (Falcons). Best coach ever with the best QB ever and it's proven a deadly combination because what they've proven and other teams trying to be the hot new things with the hot new idea is that everyone is chasing them with bad ideas. That team schemes for the opponent every week. They don't run the same game plan week in and week out with the old "We're going to establish the run" approach. They attack the matchups and the weaknesses. And they do it with a highly intelligent, focused, just-win QB who, despite the hatred here, goes out there are refuses, and I think this is the key, refuses to play hero ball. He takes what's given to move the chains. Imagine if QBs regarded as "all time greats" had Brady's mentality rather than the stat sheet mentality.... looking at you Marino and Kelly. Apparently the game winning TD was a package of plays they didn't even have in the book for the game. How well is a team coached that they can roll out, in a Super Bowl, a drive of plays that players didn't even practice. Continue to be amazed watching the Pats eat up teams in the twilight of Brady's career. Saddened that he's in the Bills' division and looks like he'll be good for a few more years. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Buffalo Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 NONE of the 11 highest scoring teams in NFL history have won the Super Bowl... 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark92 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Maybe now everyone who wants an offense minded coach instead of McDermott will quiet down? You can win both ways in the NFL. I kept trying to picture Allen and our O-line on that stage playing that pass rush. It would have been a beat down. That game really helps me get excited about improving both lines then getting weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Gugny said: Year Team Offensive Ranking Defensive Ranking 1999 Rams 1 2 Remind me ....... Was that the season ALL THE TAPES WERE DESTROYED? I've also mentioned that no Team that has lead the league in Passing Wards has ever won the SB. (You can have the most passing yards and not be the top scoring team) 53 minutes ago, One Buffalo said: NONE of the 11 highest scoring teams in NFL history have won the Super Bowl... Edited February 4, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 14 hours ago, One Buffalo said: And everyone is looking for the next Mcvay... he got schooled big time tonight. Or Jared Goff was just really really bad. Missed a wide open Cooks for A TD. Skipped throws, couldnt handle a blitz. might as well been EJ MAnuel back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Búfalo Blanco Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, teef said: maybe you have to be good on both sides of the ball? Edited February 4, 2019 by Búfalo Blanco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Just not top rated defenses....this year anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, Dopey said: out of the last 14 super bowls, 8 time the loser has been held to 17 points or under. 8 of 14 beats 6 of 11. 8 of 14 doesn't matter. I don't feel good going back more than 10 years....and even maybe not even 10. The rules of the league and general point totals have changed so much that the farther back you go, the less the numbers matter. 11 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Except it’s happened a LOT more than that over the last decade. Pats this year along with Broncos, Seahawks, Giants twice, and Ravens..and that’s just off the top of my head. That’s not how you gauge this at all. For example, the 2013 Broncos set all the NFL scoring records and then got blown out 41-8 by defensive monster Seahawks. You’re counting that as if offense was more important and not the fact that the Legion of Boom shut down the greatest offense in NFL history allowing just 8 points. You guys are inaccurately presenting your “facts” and miscrediting things as a result. Funny thing is...I think YOU are presenting your 'facts' and miscrediting things on your side of the argument. You cherrypicked the 2013 Broncos as an example.How about the Eagles last year who had the 3rd ranked offense? The pats the year before with Brady near his statistical peak? Or the Pats in 2015 that were also near the top in Offense? The FACT that the majority of recent superbowl winners were led by likely Hall of Fame QBs with Offensive units that were ranked in the top 10 in the league? If you want to break this argument down to is most simple form...7 of the last 10 superbowls were played and won with well above average scoring (compared to the rest of the league) by more teams ranked higher in offense than defense. This year the top 5 defenses in the League were the Bears, Ravens Titans, Texans and Jags. Top offenses were Chiefs, Rams, Saints, Pats, and Colts. Last nights SB was one of the very, VERY few examples of a low scoring game, but certainly the Best D-units in the game don't near get as far as the top offense unites. Edited February 4, 2019 by mjd1001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 17 hours ago, Steptide said: I feel like if the saints played in this game, they woulda won by 30 That's what I was thinking last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 18 hours ago, Steptide said: I feel like if the saints played in this game, they woulda won by 30 Cant say. For one Pats would have a completely different game plan. Saints also dont have Suh and Donald. Pats would have put up more points as well. You cant "what if" something that never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, mjd1001 said: 8 of 14 doesn't matter. I don't feel good going back more than 10 years....and even maybe not even 10. The rules of the league and general point totals have changed so much that the farther back you go, the less the numbers matter. Funny thing is...I think YOU are presenting your 'facts' and miscrediting things on your side of the argument. You cherrypicked the 2013 Broncos as an example.How about the Eagles last year who had the 3rd ranked offense? The pats the year before with Brady near his statistical peak? Or the Pats in 2015 that were also near the top in Offense? The FACT that the majority of recent superbowl winners were led by likely Hall of Fame QBs with Offensive units that were ranked in the top 10 in the league? If you want to break this argument down to is most simple form...7 of the last 10 superbowls were played and won with well above average scoring (compared to the rest of the league) by more teams ranked higher in offense than defense. This year the top 5 defenses in the League were the Bears, Ravens Titans, Texans and Jags. Top offenses were Chiefs, Rams, Saints, Pats, and Colts. Last nights SB was one of the very, VERY few examples of a low scoring game, but certainly the Best D-units in the game don't near get as far as the top offense unites. Last years final four teams were ranked 1, 2, 4 and 5 in points allowed per game. Your own argument isn’t holding water still. Lets add in the top 2 offenses of all time Broncos and Pats both lost the SB to defensive teams and were outsourced a combine 58-21. Top 5 offenses in NFL history, zero super bowl wins and only 3 reached it. Not to mention this year, high powered Rams scored 3 points. Most prolific passing game in SB history...Brady last year with over 500 yards. Still Lost. I could go on and on, but you and I both know it won’t matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 They use to say defense wins championships & you need a strong running game to play in the play offs & go to a championship but today they say that these are no longer true in order to win . I'm calling BS ! If you look at the last few SB Champions what are the things they need to win a above average QB (good passing game) a top 10 defense (you have to stop the other team from scoring) & even though they say RB's are a dime a dozen & they aren't as high touted as they use to be just look at what the Bills went through this season with virtually no running game . Last year the Eagles had Blount & a formidable running game, the year before the Patriots had Blount & a really good running game, this year the Pats again had a really good O line & a really good or above average running game when they needed it so as far as i'm concerned the "Experts" can piss off because if you ain't got a good running game you ain't got S**T ... Which goes along with the thought that defense wins championships ! With out all 3 pieces of a team playing good you won't even sniff the play offs !! MPO ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 2/3/2019 at 10:36 PM, Les Vegetables said: It seems like it depends on the time of season for defenses to dominate. The refs throw a lot of unnecessary flags in the regular season (especially early weeks) that heavily favors the offense. The playoffs prove to be the opposite, as we’ve seen multiple non-call situations that give the defenses the edge and opportunity to play aggressive. I have no stats to back this up and I’m in favor of letting the players play, just observations from watching games. You may have something here. In these close game those flags matter. Someone should compare how the the Rams KC game was officiated to this Super Bowl... bet it’s a there is a big disparity in DPI, IC, DH etc. Seahawks in their hay day alluded to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) My theory is offense tends to get you to the big games. Better regular season record, division titles, first round bye's and therefore more often than not to the conference title games and Super Bowl. But once you are at the super bowl, the team with the better defense tends to win with more regularity. But typically speaking, both teams will have top 10 offenses or even better. Edited February 5, 2019 by Sammy Watkins' Rib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieG Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: My theory is offense tends to get you to the big games. Better regular season record, division titles, first round bye's and therefore more often than not to the conference title games and Super Bowl. But once you are at the super bowl, the team with the better defense tends to win with more regularity. But typically speaking, both teams will have top 10 offenses or even better. and that's really the thing...neither of these teams even sniffs the dance without a potent office. For years, the Rams have had a pretty talented D. But they rarely had a winning record, much less a ticket to the dance. Without a potent offense capable of racking up points...the Pats don't get past the Chiefs, if they even get that far. It took an offense capable of putting up 37 against a team that put up 31..in a half. As it applies to the Bills...well, lol, it shouldn't have to be said..but you're getting nowhere with a 30th ranked offense. At best, even with a good D, you're looking at Jeff Fisherville. Or the Bills for the past 19 years. And if the "defense wins championships" war cry is going to be used to prioritize the D over the O in the talent collection department...well, you're not getting very far up from that number 30 ranking. What was witnessed Sunday was Belichick out coaching a far younger and less experienced coach, and shutting down a young, relatively inexperienced QB. He's never done THAT before. The title of this thread should probably be, "Belichick wins champions". As much as I hate it, he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeskillitMoorman Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Wasn't the score of last year's Superbowl like 41-33? And 34-28 the year before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 You need an offense to get there. I would say - Defense can win in the playoffs or defense can win one game. But over the stretch of 16 games you need at a minimum an above average offense. Just ask TEN and JAC. Both had solid defenses that were good statistically but Offenses that could not keep up over a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Someday Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 2/4/2019 at 6:57 AM, Gugny said: Year Team Offensive Ranking Defensive Ranking 1993 Cowboys 2 6 1994 49ers 1 6 1995 Cowboys 1 9 1996 Packers 1 2 1997 Broncos 1 6 1999 Rams 1 2 2001 Patriots 7 6 2004 Patriots 5 4 2005 Steelers 6 4 2010 Packers 8 1 2013 Seahawks 9 1 2014 Patriots 3 8 2016 Patriots 5 1 2017 Eagles 4 4 I think this settles it. Well rounded teams win championships!!! Thanks Gugny. Go Mets!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 22 hours ago, mjd1001 said: 8 of 14 doesn't matter. I don't feel good going back more than 10 years....and even maybe not even 10. The rules of the league and general point totals have changed so much that the farther back you go, the less the numbers matter. Funny thing is...I think YOU are presenting your 'facts' and miscrediting things on your side of the argument. You cherrypicked the 2013 Broncos as an example.How about the Eagles last year who had the 3rd ranked offense? The pats the year before with Brady near his statistical peak? Or the Pats in 2015 that were also near the top in Offense? The FACT that the majority of recent superbowl winners were led by likely Hall of Fame QBs with Offensive units that were ranked in the top 10 in the league? If you want to break this argument down to is most simple form...7 of the last 10 superbowls were played and won with well above average scoring (compared to the rest of the league) by more teams ranked higher in offense than defense. This year the top 5 defenses in the League were the Bears, Ravens Titans, Texans and Jags. Top offenses were Chiefs, Rams, Saints, Pats, and Colts. Last nights SB was one of the very, VERY few examples of a low scoring game, but certainly the Best D-units in the game don't near get as far as the top offense unites. Sorry, I haven't gone back to take every word in context ..... hopefully I am on the right track These "factoids" are a wonderful thing and you have to read carefully. THE team that lead the NFL in Points (not the other top 4 teams) or THE QB that lead the NFL in passing yards and not the top QBs in passing yards, (not the other top 4 QB's). 5 minutes ago, Maybe Someday said: I think this settles it. Well rounded teams win championships!!! Thanks Gugny. Go Mets!! Cheaters may win, but in my book they will always be losers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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