ESPN article says Bills would "obviously trade Allen, Edmunds and White for Mahomes

[Trogdor]

13 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

Oh brother

As long as all his throws are over the middle but shorter than 20 yards is what he meant lol. 

[njbuff]

As usual. people have no idea of the situation that WAS the 2018 Buffalo Bills.

 

I repeat, Mahomes WOULD NOT be the QB in Buffalo that he is in KC right now.

 

He would be a promising prospect going into his third year here.

 

Allen is a promising prospect going into his second year. Only difference between the two when it comes to being a Buffalo Bills QB.

[Trogdor]

2 hours ago, RPbillsfan said:

The article is ridiculous.  If Patrick Mahomes would have been drafted by the Bills, sat the bench all season in 2017.  Then start with the talent level (lack of) the Bills have on offense he would have been classified as a bust, let's see:

 

TE: Clay vs Kelcie - hmmmmmmm, significant downgrade

 

WR1: Benjamin vs Hill, hmmmmmmmmm, significant downgrade

 

WR2: Zay Jones vs Sammy Watkins, slight downgrade

 

OL: Bills crap at 4 positions vs solid KC line, major downgrade

 

My guess at his stats with Buffalo would be about 30 TD's less passing, more interceptions then Allen threw and about 500 yards less rushing.

 

Plus a much worse defense now and in the future.

 

Hence, the article is complete nonsense.

Don't let your bias get in the way. 

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, wppete said:

Can you imagine Josh Allen in KC with all those weapons??? (Especially before Hunt got released) 

The media would be freaking out. Best QB ever hahaha

 

 

He may be before all is said and done.  What were Alex smiths numbers with all those weapons?  Oh only 26 Tds not 50.  So it isnt just the weapons, afterall look at some of the weapons and the Oline Tyrod Taylor had.

[Freddie's Dead]

9 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

We handed the Chiefs a draft pick. 

 

I agree, it seemed like less than I would have expected, but that seems to be the market rate... based on draft value charts. 

 

 

(It was 10th to 27th)

 

Ouch.  I remembered 21 to 7, 27 to 10 makes it even worse.

[formerlyofCtown]

8 minutes ago, njbuff said:

As usual. people have no idea of the situation that WAS the 2018 Buffalo Bills.

 

I repeat, Mahomes WOULD NOT be the QB in Buffalo that he is in KC right now.

 

He would be a promising prospect going into his third year here.

 

Allen is a promising prospect going into his second year. Only difference between the two when it comes to being a Buffalo Bills QB.

I am very aware but we are hoping and believing Allen will put up numbers like that with better weapons.  I absolutely believe he will.

The difference is we know Mahomes does.  You have to be in the GM chair on this, not the fan chair.

 

3 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Ouch.  I remembered 21 to 7, 27 to 10 makes it even worse.

Maybe its a sign 217 in both means they will be equal.

[rodneykm]

3 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Isn't it funny how the writer tries to make the word "undoubtedly" sound like a quote, instead of him just...writing.

 

 

 

The media is all like this these days. Opinion = fact

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, gjv001 said:

Where does ESPN find these idiots? No wonder ESPN is having financial problems, they put out a lot of crap.

Wait, ESPN is dumb because the said Buffalo would trade for a guy who thew 50 tds in his second year? ?

21 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

I have no clue. But anyone who says they knew for sure Mahomes would look like this is wrong- there are no guarentees here. They were similar prospects coming out- freakish athletes with incredible skill sets and big questions marks. 

 

So, I don’t know if he’ll look like Mahomes, I even doubt it somewhat due to situation and offense- but I wouldn’t be shocked if he made a jump, and I wouldn’t be shocked if he was even good enough to be in the MVP talk. I also wouldn’t be shocked if none of that happened.

 

thats the point of my post. If he flames out, then we’d trade everything in our bag for Mahomes and the hindsight will look bad for the bills. But if Allens steps up and Mahomes steps back (or even if he stays the same), it changes the conversation. 

 

Also, as an aside to this whole conversation, Its important to note that you can’t judge whether a decision was right or wrong in the moment based on its outcome- you have to look at the circumstances that led to the decision. If it was obviously the wrong decision at the time (some may argue that about Mahomes, but that seems revisionist to me) that’s one thing, but just because it proves to be the wrong decision with the addition of time, doesn’t mean it was originally. 

Mahomes had 53 tds his last year in college.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

 

[gobills1212]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

Opinions are like...

A box of chocolates,  ya never know what yer gonna get!!!

[LSHMEAB]

Let's take a look at the passing TD statistics throughout Andy Reid's 19 year career as a Head Coach.

 

Year     Passing TD's

1999    18

2000    21

2001    32

2002    17

2003    27

2004    27

2005    21

2006    18

2007    24

2008    23

2009    27

2010    28

2011    22

2012    18

2013    24

2014    18

2015    20

2016    19

2017    26

 

 

2018   50

 

Case closed.

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

Mahomes had 53 tds his last year in college.

So why did 9 other FO’s pass on this once in a generational talent? If college TD’s is the sole measuring stick, then NFL draft order picks should be easy! 

[Augie]

It’s ESPN. Obviously. 

[C.Biscuit97]

21 minutes ago, njbuff said:

As usual. people have no idea of the situation that WAS the 2018 Buffalo Bills.

 

I repeat, Mahomes WOULD NOT be the QB in Buffalo that he is in KC right now.

 

He would be a promising prospect going into his third year here.

 

Allen is a promising prospect going into his second year. Only difference between the two when it comes to being a Buffalo Bills QB.

Imo, Mahomes is flat out a better qb than Allen was coming out of college.  It wasn’t really close.  

 

What scared me about Allen is he rarely dominate against lesser competition. Mahomes was dominate in college.

 

allen showed flashes but a lot of what we are hoping for is projection because he never has been a dominant qb. I watch Mahomes get 50 tds in both the pros and college.  That means something.

3 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

So why did 9 other FO’s pass on this once in a generational talent? If college TD’s is the sole measuring stick, then NFL draft order picks should be easy! 

Because they are dumb and Andy Reid knows qbs better than the Bears and other bad teams at the top of the draft.

 

 

[BillsMafia13]

3 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

BTW, I did extensive research on both teams and came to the unique conclusion that the BIlls OLine, WRs and TEs are terrible in comparison with Kansas City.

 

You can read about all my research in Duh Magazine.

Ill take a gander, how much is a subscription?

[njbuff]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Imo, Mahomes is flat out a better qb than Allen was coming out of college.  It wasn’t really close.  

 

What scared me about Allen is he rarely dominate against lesser competition. Mahomes was dominate in college.

 

allen showed flashes but a lot of what we are hoping for is projection because he never has been a dominant qb. I watch Mahomes get 50 tds in both the pros and college.  That means something.

Because they are dumb and Andy Reid knows qbs better than the Bears and other bad teams at the top of the draft.

 

 

 

Wyoming is one of the worst programs in ALL of college football.

 

Allen alone made them competitive. 

 

Mahomes has always had better supporting casts, offensively anyway, as TT's defense with Mahomes was awful, just like Wyoming's.

 

I loved both Allen and Mahomes coming out, but there were serious questions about both.

 

The Allen/Mahomes comparisons are just silly to me because McDermott already made his decision that he liked Allen better.

 

McBeane is going to swim/sink with Allen. No need to even go into the Mahomes factor here.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

37 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

At the time the Bills made the trade, I thought we got fleeced by KC.  We should have gotten four picks in return, at least 2017 and 2018 first and second.  2017 1st and 3rd, and 2018 1st, for KC to jump from 21 to 7, was not enough.  And don't give me your draft pick value bull####.  We handed KC a franchise QB for two late first-round picks and an early third-round pick.  We got boned.   

 

The pick is worth what you can get.  Some years its worth more, some years its worth less.  The draft chart is a guide.  The first overall pick this year is worth farrrr less than, for example, the year Andrew Luck was available. 

 

At the end of the day, they got would they could get to move back.  Its only a bad trade if they could have gotten more.  Do you have any reason to believe they could have gotten more from KC?  If they would have walked away from the deal if we demanded more, would it still look like a bad trade.  

[Freddie's Dead]

2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

The pick is worth what you can get.  Some years its worth more, some years its worth less.  The draft chart is a guide.  The first overall pick this year is worth farrrr less than, for example, the year Andrew Luck was available. 

 

At the end of the day, they got would they could get to move back.  Its only a bad trade if they could have gotten more.  Do you have any reason to believe they could have gotten more from KC?  If they would have walked away from the deal if we demanded more, would it still look like a bad trade.  

 

Yes, because I would have picked Mahomes there otherwise.  If you're trading to a team that's going to use the pick on the QB, you gotta jack them up.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

Wyoming is one of the worst programs in ALL of college football.

 

Allen alone made them competitive. 

 

Mahomes has always had better supporting casts, offensively anyway, as TT's defense with Mahomes was awful, just like Wyoming's.

 

I loved both Allen and Mahomes coming out, but there were serious questions about both.

 

The Allen/Mahomes comparisons are just silly to me because McDermott already made his decision that he liked Allen better.

 

McBeane is going to swim/sink with Allen. No need to even go into the Mahomes factor here.

I don’t really disagree but who were the star players Mahomes played with in college?  I’m missing all those high draft pick receivers or superior talent.  And I definitely believe a top 10 pick should have had more games of being dominant in the MWC than Allen did.

 

Allen is the upside pick so hopefully, he realizes that potential.  But those picks, fairly or not, will always be connected.

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Agreed, but it’s not like it didn’t work out for the Bills either. Some trades can be mutually beneficial. I am of the opinion that Allen is going to be special. He may not be Mahomes special, but will be a top 10 QB. If you add that to a couple of pro bowl caliber defenders (White already is and Edmunds will be) you did well. 

 

Put Mahomes on last years Bills roster as a rookie and see what you get from him. Without any help for Allen, and all the help in the world (plus a year to sit, watch and learn) for Mahomes, I’d say we have no idea what the gap is between the two as we sit here today.  I’m NOT saying Allen = Mahomes, but how big is the difference now and what will it be in 5 years given equal surrounding talent? Oh, then consider throwing in a top CB and LB. 

 

Not so obvious, really. 

[Doc Brown]

In retrospect, Bills would undoubtedly take Brady in 2000 over Flowers, Tilman, Moore, Black, Morris, and Larson.

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Augie said:

 

Put Mahomes on last years Bills roster as a rookie and see what you get from him. Without any help for Allen, and all the help in the world (plus a year to sit, watch and learn) for Mahomes, I’d say we have no idea what the gap is between the two as we sit here today.  I’m NOT saying Allen = Mahomes, but how big is the difference now and what will it be in 5 years given equal surrounding talent? Oh, then consider throwing in a top CB and LB. 

 

Not so obvious, really. 

1) Mahomes would benefit from having the 2nd ranked defense instead of the 2nd worst defense. Mahomes has our score teams for KC to win.

 

2) I just believe Mahomes is a special talent and better qb than Allen.  I think he would be good (maybe not MVP level in Buffalo) anywhere. 

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

In retrospect, Bills would undoubtedly take Brady in 2000 over Flowers, Tilman, Moore, Black, Morris, and Larson.

Larsen wasn’t developed right. 

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

In retrospect, Bills would undoubtedly take Brady in 2000 over Flowers, Tilman, Moore, Black, Morris, and Larson.

Avion Black had the greatest name in NFL history and Leif Larson could lift a house. No thanks to Brady.

[njbuff]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t really disagree but who were the star players Mahomes played with in college?  I’m missing all those high draft pick receivers or superior talent.  And I definitely believe a top 10 pick should have had more games of being dominant in the MWC than Allen did.

 

Allen is the upside pick so hopefully, he realizes that potential.  But those picks, fairly or not, will always be connected.

 

It's pretty simple.

 

McDermott will either be a Bills HC 10+ or will be gone in 2 years based on his decision to go with Allen over Mahomes.

 

Mahomes had a better supporting cast in college, not NFL caliber, but better than what Allen had nonetheless.

[Augie]

30 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1) Mahomes would benefit from having the 2nd ranked defense instead of the 2nd worst defense. Mahomes has our score teams for KC to win.

 

2) I just believe Mahomes is a special talent and better qb than Allen.  I think he would be good (maybe not MVP level in Buffalo) anywhere. 

Larsen wasn’t developed right. 

 

I didn’t say he’s not better than Allen, I said we have no idea of knowing what the gap is at this point, fully conceding that Mahomes is obviously special. (How would Allen do after sitting and learning a year, then playing with all the KC talent? We’ll never know, but I bet a lot better than we saw this year!) And part of that highly ranked defense are the two other star players on our side of the equation. Can’t forget that. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Augie

[Tatonka68]

Mahomes is no slouch but Allen might end up being just as good if not better, plus we have at the least two above average starters if not future Pro Bowlers.

[That_Guy]

hindsight is a harsh mistress

[njbuff]

Mahomes was able to sit back and learn under Reid.

 

Allen had to play from day one because McDermott falsely had faith in Peterman.

 

Mahomes had a luxury entering the NFL, Allen did not.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I didn’t say he’s not better than Allen, I said we have no idea of knowing what the gap is at this point, fully conceding that Mahomes is obviously special. And part of that highly ranked defense are the two other star players on our side of the equation. Can’t forget that. 

Fair.  I do think people underrated how much playing with a good defense helps a young qb.  Mahomes “lost” games where he scored 51, 28, & 31 points.

[BillsFan1988]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

Didn’t they use the Chiefs pick acquired in the trade ( plus another) to draft Edmunds ? I think that’s why. 

I realize that but we did have pk 21 to start with. Now maybe that changes our season in 2017 but who knows. Its not like we didnt have another pk to use to move up for Edmunds anyways. Who knows . Maybe we end up with Leonard in the 2nd rd. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, njbuff said:

Mahomes was able to sit back and learn under Reid.

 

Allen had to play from day one because McDermott falsely had faith in Peterman.

 

Mahomes had a luxury entering the NFL, Allen did not.

So maybe the guy who traded up for Mahomes is better at evaluating/ developing offensive talent than McDermott. 

[Tatonka68]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1) Mahomes would benefit from having the 2nd ranked defense instead of the 2nd worst defense. Mahomes has our score teams for KC to win.

 

2) I just believe Mahomes is a special talent and better qb than Allen.  I think he would be good (maybe not MVP level in Buffalo) anywhere. 

Larsen wasn’t developed right. 

In Five years we will see which QB has more rings. I bet it aint the Chief.

[The Jokeman]

3 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Well, considering that Mahomes and Allen weren't even in the same draft and the Bills could not have come even close to completing their pre-draft evaluation work on Allen, it's not an either Mahomes or Allen question straight up, right? The premise/byline of the article becomes somewhat misleading then, no? And what is the point of bashing the Bills on this one when how many other franchises similarly passed on Mahomes before KC? 

You make a great point, I mean let's see what Josh Allen does in his 2nd year (since this was Mahomes 2nd year). Heck there's no guaranteeing that Mahomes or Allen will be successful again next season.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Fair.  I do think people underrated how much playing with a good defense helps a young qb.  Mahomes “lost” games where he scored 51, 28, & 31 points.

 

It’s tough to be really good on both sides of the ball! (But it’s easier with a QB on a rookie deal.) 

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So maybe the guy who traded up for Mahomes is better at evaluating/ developing offensive talent than McDermott. 

He also traded for Peters back in the day.  Maybe we shouldn't trade with this guy.

[njbuff]

2 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

In Five years we will see which QB has more rings. I bet it aint the Chief.

 

Yep.

 

But we will see how Allen develops as he might actually get some offensive help for the first time in his life.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

15 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Yes, because I would have picked Mahomes there otherwise.  If you're trading to a team that's going to use the pick on the QB, you gotta jack them up.

 

Okay, and if the Bills would not have drafted Mahomes there? 

[RyanC883]

14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1) Mahomes would benefit from having the 2nd ranked defense instead of the 2nd worst defense. Mahomes has our score teams for KC to win.

 

2) I just believe Mahomes is a special talent and better qb than Allen.  I think he would be good (maybe not MVP level in Buffalo) anywhere. 

Larsen wasn’t developed right. 

 

I don't think Mahomes is putting up the same numbers with the 2nd best defense.  Likely in that situation you fewer shots down the field and more running.  Plus, who does he throw the ball to in Buffalo.  He doesn't get Foster until week 10.  

[Mango]

8 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Mahomes was able to sit back and learn under Reid.

 

Allen had to play from day one because McDermott falsely had faith in Peterman.

 

Mahomes had a luxury entering the NFL, Allen did not.

 

Cool! 

 

Does Allen start games with a 7 point lead then because he didn’t have that “luxury”? 

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I don't think Mahomes is putting up the same numbers with the 2nd best defense.  Likely in that situation you fewer shots down the field and more running.  Plus, who does he throw the ball to in Buffalo.  He doesn't get Foster until week 10.  

Would the Bills have the 2nd best defense without White or Edmunds(who we got because of trading away pick 10 in 2017) though?