Bills need to learn how to close out games

[Shaw66]

I have one reaction to the Jets game:  the Bills have now lost two games in a row by failing to make plays to win the game.  Didn’t make the plays against the Dolphins, and didn’t make the plays against the Jets.

 

I can only speculate about it.  It’s some combination of player talent and coaching.  I’d guess mostly coaching.  McDermott talks a good game, but I’m not sure how good he is at getting his team ready for anything that could happen.  

 

Whatever the reason, this team needs to learn how to close out games.  McDermott and the players have to learn.  That’s what good teams do.  Or maybe not; maybe it’s just that you win some (Titans, Jags) and you lose some (Texans, Dolphins, Jets).   

[PittsforDave]

Conservative coaching will put us in positions like this. Hopefully with more talent, this won’t be an issue. 

[Shaw66]

Yeah, I know, put the game away early and all that.   

 

Do you think Bill Belichick is saying to his team, "just post better early and we won't have to make a play on some gadgets the Dolphins run"?  

 

The fact is that every team is in close games every season. Good teams make plays to win thise games.  They make plays because they are prepared to make them.  They are prepared for clock management issues. They are prepared to increase their intensity.  They are prepared to adjust based on what they've seen through the game.  

 

Coaches TEACH end of game strategy and practice situations.  

 

The Bills give me the feeling that they don't yet have what it takes. Some of it is just talent, to be sure.  And some of it is you can't win every game.  But some of it is being ready, and they don't look ready to me. 

[buffalobillswin]

I feel like we've been saying that for the past 20 years. 

[SDS]

15 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I have one reaction to the Jets game:  the Bills have now lost two games in a row by failing to make plays to win the game.  Didn’t make the plays against the Dolphins, and didn’t make the plays against the Jets.

 

I can only speculate about it.  It’s some combination of player talent and coaching.  I’d guess mostly coaching.  McDermott talks a good game, but I’m not sure how good he is at getting his team ready for anything that could happen.  

 

Whatever the reason, this team needs to learn how to close out games.  McDermott and the players have to learn.  That’s what good teams do.  Or maybe not; maybe it’s just that you win some (Titans, Jags) and you lose some (Texans, Dolphins, Jets).   

 

Eh. This just seems like fan speak to me. Other than some minor time-wasting strategies, what exactly is there to "learn"? Are they not always trying to keep the ball and get first downs? Isn't the defense always trying to stop the other team (except when the tradeoff is to keep them from stopping the clock).

 

That phrasing probably means more in a game like soccer when playing with a lead. So many more ways to waste time and keep the other team from scoring than American football.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, I know, put the game away early and all that.   

 

Do you think Bill Belichick is saying to his team, "just post better early and we won't have to make a play on some gadgets the Dolphins run"?  

 

The fact is that every team is in close games every season. Good teams make plays to win thise games.  They make plays because they are prepared to make them.  They are prepared for clock management issues. They are prepared to increase their intensity.  They are prepared to adjust based on what they've seen through the game.  

 

Coaches TEACH end of game strategy and practice situations.  

 

The Bills give me the feeling that they don't yet have what it takes. Some of it is just talent, to be sure.  And some of it is you can't win every game.  But some of it is being ready, and they don't look ready to me. 

I agree about the ‘readiness’ aspect but differ on where the issue lies wrt to intensity defining the game, which I think it absolutely did (esp late in the game/into last drive). Coaches definitely teach players strategy and situational awareness, hammer in focus and limiting mistakes and how to react in different spots...they do all that for sure. And you’re right that the better teams are often the ones who’s coaches have them better prepared for those moments.

 

But I also believe players (talking about pros now, not college athletes) don’t derive a ton of motivation or intensity or fight or whatever you want to call it from their coaches. I think they mostly get that from each other, vets in particular, and the fact that we have a lot of very young and very green talent (especially on offense) means they’re going to suffer at times when you need guys who’ve been through the battles and understand when raising the level is required. Edmunds doesn’t get it yet. Neither does Allen. They’re learning the hard way right now.

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, SDS said:

 

Eh. This just seems like fan speak to me. Other than some minor time-wasting strategies, what exactly is there to "learn"? Are they not always trying to keep the ball and get first downs? Isn't the defense always trying to stop the other team (except when the tradeoff is to keep them from stopping the clock).

 

That phrasing probably means more in a game like soccer when playing with a lead. So many more ways to waste time and keep the other team from scoring than American football.

As I understand it, every day Belichick ends practice with an end of game situation and practices what to do.  Sometimes offense, sometimes defense,  different score, different down, different time remaining.   At the end of the game the pressure is heightened, and if the players have seen something like it before they're better prepared.  

 

I don't think it's fan speak.  

 

You think Belichick isn't going to be teaching his team how to handle mthat last play better?  Of course he is.  He isnt going to just forget about it and expect that will never happen again. 

[TroutDog]

This also has to do with the simple fact that this team is young and they are having tryouts during the season. It’s going to be ugly and leave you scratching your head but it’s all for a reason.  

 

In my opinion, we need to be more learned and grasp that moving a ship this large in terms of talent and culture, is no easy task and there is no ‘quick fix’. 

[Patrick Duffy]

I think sometimes coach is just too conservative. Don't know if more talent will change that or not, so far it just seems that's the way he coaches.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, TroutDog said:

This also has to do with the simple fact that this team is young and they are having tryouts during the season. It’s going to be ugly and leave you scratching your head but it’s all for a reason.  

 

In my opinion, we need to be more learned and grasp that moving a ship this large in terms of talent and culture, is no easy task and there is no ‘quick fix’. 

Yup. I mean, there’s a reason they talk about process all the time. 

[John from Riverside]

You need talent to win games.....

 

The bills do not have the talent on offense......and no amount of coaching is going to make players good.

 

case in point....we CANNOT RUN THE BALL

 

We led much of this game.....when you have a lead......coaches will want to run the ball to take time off the clock...unfortunately for us....our QB has most of our running yards...the guys who get paid millions just to tote the rock cannot do it because the OL is horrid.......hence we have to pass...hence we dont convert....hence we dont take any time off the clock........

 

It really is as simple as that.

[reddogblitz]

We were able to do it last year.  Bucs, Raiders, last fish game, and others.  What happened?  Now we're back to finding new ways to lose.  I thought Coach McDermott got us past that which is why we made the playoffs last year.

 

I also think it's because they (McDermott and Beane) are not really trying to win this year.

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I agree about the ‘readiness’ aspect but differ on where the issue lies wrt to intensity defining the game, which I think it absolutely did (esp late in the game/into last drive). Coaches definitely teach players strategy and situational awareness, hammer in focus and limiting mistakes and how to react in different spots...they do all that for sure. And you’re right that the better teams are often the ones who’s coaches have them better prepared for those moments.

 

But I also believe players (talking about pros now, not college athletes) don’t derive a ton of motivation or intensity or fight or whatever you want to call it from their coaches. I think they mostly get that from each other, vets in particular, and the fact that we have a lot of very young and very green talent (especially on offense) means they’re going to suffer at times when you need guys who’ve been through the battles and understand when raising the level is required. Edmunds doesn’t get it yet. Neither does Allen. They’re learning the hard way right now.

I think you're right about that.  I think one part of the Bills problems late in games is exactly what you say - inexperienced players.  Having a ten-year vet in the huddle calling plays is better than having Edmunds.  Edmunds isn't ready yet to model the right behavior and get others to follow him. And that isn't a knock on Edmunds.  Playersmfeed off of leadership, they gain self confidence seeing the confidence and intensity of their leaders.  

 

Thanks. Interesting comment. 

[HappyDays]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

case in point....we CANNOT RUN THE BALL

 

We led much of this game.....when you have a lead......coaches will want to run the ball to take time off the clock...

 

I was going to say the same thing. You need a good run game to close games out. Allen is getting worn out and so is the defense. Building the run game next year is arguably just as important as finding receivers that can catch.

[HOUSE]

Its a Buffalo Thing, The Sabres have the exact same problem

A two goal lead starting the 3rd period means nothing

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

We were able to do it last year.  Bucs, Raiders, last fish game, and others.  What happened?  Now we're back to finding new ways to lose.  I thought Coach McDermott got us past that which is why we made the playoffs last year.

 

I also think it's because they (McDermott and Beane) are not really trying to win this year.

I like 808's comment.  I think there's a difference between having Preston Brown in the middle late in games and Tremaine Edmunds.  Two years from now, tremaine will be playing at a level Brown could only dream of, but right now I don't think Edmunds teammates are thinking they have to man up like Tremaine. He just isn't that kind of leader yet. 

[Nextmanup]

"Learning to close out games" isn't a thing.  It's what some football fans discuss.

 

You know what we needed more of yesterday? Big throws from Josh Allen at key times and fewer turnovers.

 

Competent special teams play would have gone a long way too. 

 

We did not capitalize on a lot of good situations and left points on the field throughout the game.

 

There's nothing to "learn" there per se.  The quality of Bills play needs to impove all over the field.

 

When it does, I think you'll see that we magically learn how to win.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

They did a good job getting to the FG at the end there, but another first down and that FG is most likely the game - or at least overtime.

 

Depending on how hauschka was feeling too, maybe go for that 4th and 8 if he's dinged up from the cheap shot.

[3rdand12]

8 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

This also has to do with the simple fact that this team is young and they are having tryouts during the season. It’s going to be ugly and leave you scratching your head but it’s all for a reason.  

 

In my opinion, we need to be more learned and grasp that moving a ship this large in terms of talent and culture, is no easy task and there is no ‘quick fix’. 

I think too , it fall back onto the "Youth" of the Team. in every aspect. The Coaches as well.

 But it really showed on Teams. They lost focus twice.

They needed lane discipline and some patience defending the returns.

Gotta charge to the young players. When to play full throttle and attack and when to protect a lead with lower risk calls.

solid point. just not sure the answer. And certainly not the Only issue the team needs to work on. how about they just cut the f 'n penalties in half for starters ?

: )

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

46 minutes ago, PittsforDave said:

Conservative coaching will put us in positions like this. Hopefully with more talent, this won’t be an issue. 

 

 

...we seem to have the same "killer/seal the deal" mentality as we did win the Dickey Jauron era............did NOT work then and won't work now........I hate turtles.....

[reddogblitz]

Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...we seem to have the same "killer/seal the deal" mentality as we did win the Dickey Jauron era............did NOT work then and won't work now........I hate turtles.....

 

THE PROCESS  is very similar to Dick Ball.  I don't expect that to change.

Edited December 10, 2018 by reddogblitz

[3rdand12]

13 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

I think sometimes coach is just too conservative. Don't know if more talent will change that or not, so far it just seems that's the way he coaches.

as mentioned during the game by  " Arch " i think , Bills Defense wants to win with front four and not bring pressure. Play zone coverages. Pressure and confuse on the back side.
 

[reddogblitz]

Just now, 3rdand12 said:

as mentioned during the game by  " Arch " i think , Bills Defense wants to win with front four and not bring pressure. Play zone coverages. Pressure and confuse on the back side.
 

 

In other words, bend but don't break.   Like Dick and Perry ran.

[3rdand12]

5 minutes ago, dneveu said:

They did a good job getting to the FG at the end there, but another first down and that FG is most likely the game - or at least overtime.

 

Depending on how hauschka was feeling too, maybe go for that 4th and 8 if he's dinged up from the cheap shot.

in hindsight for sure. that hurt the game.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

THE PROCESS  is very similar to Dick Ball.  I don't expect that to change.

 

...thanks for re-affirming my fear that "The Cadaver" may have resurfaced........Dopey Dicky made a wake look like "New Years Eve Times Square"......hence the "7-9 repetitious rut"......

[reddogblitz]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...thanks for re-affirming my fear that "The Cadaver" may have resurfaced........Dopey Dicky made a wake look like "New Years Eve Times Square"......hence the "7-9 repetitious rut"......

 

You're welcome.  It's what I've been seeing for the past 30 games under Coach McDermott.  Thinking he's going to all of the sudden switch to the overly aggressive wide open offensive coach seems odd to me.  He is who he we thought he was.

 

Camping out on the 25 and settling for that last FG reminded me of Dick vs the Clowns at the Ralph which was followed by a Ryan Lindell miss (and a loss).

[Mark Vader]

57 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I have one reaction to the Jets game:  the Bills have now lost two games in a row by failing to make plays to win the game.  Didn’t make the plays against the Dolphins, and didn’t make the plays against the Jets.

 

I can only speculate about it.  It’s some combination of player talent and coaching.  I’d guess mostly coaching.  McDermott talks a good game, but I’m not sure how good he is at getting his team ready for anything that could happen.  

 

Whatever the reason, this team needs to learn how to close out games.  McDermott and the players have to learn.  That’s what good teams do.  Or maybe not; maybe it’s just that you win some (Titans, Jags) and you lose some (Texans, Dolphins, Jets).   

The Bills are not that good of a team right now. It's only the second season under this regime and they are not finished with rebuilding this team. We just have to wait and see.

 

Let's see what happens during this upcoming off season. I personally feel better and more optimistic about the future of the Bills, than I have in recent years.

[3rdand12]

16 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

In other words, bend but don't break.   Like Dick and Perry ran.

I think he does that. But is willing to have his guys play the ball as well.
 the trick of course is knowing when and where bringing pressures work. We have seen then get after it and have success.
we have also seen them get beat by it as well.
 

 jets played a very physical game , and it showed.
They did the previous game as well. and Bills knew it was coming. I think they just plain got beat up on Sunday.
 Beat the heck of Allen, that's for sure ..

3 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

The Bills are not that good of a team right now. It's only the second season under this regime and they are not finished with rebuilding this team. We just have to wait and see.

 

Let's see what happens during this upcoming off season. I personally feel better and more optimistic about the future of the Bills, than I have in recent years.

I have  not totally given up on the Season for watching.  Some story lines worth watching. Josh Allen is the headliner of course !

 Go Bills 

forgot to insert the word "not"

 

geesh

Edited December 10, 2018 by 3rdand12

[GoBills808]

22 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think you're right about that.  I think one part of the Bills problems late in games is exactly what you say - inexperienced players.  Having a ten-year vet in the huddle calling plays is better than having Edmunds.  Edmunds isn't ready yet to model the right behavior and get others to follow him. And that isn't a knock on Edmunds.  Playersmfeed off of leadership, they gain self confidence seeing the confidence and intensity of their leaders.  

 

Thanks. Interesting comment. 

Do you know what 'do your job' means? I mean past the 'Patriot Way' bs because the majority of it is a bunch of crap. 'Do your job' is different...Belichick understands at a fundamental level that the way to field a team of overachievers, season in and season out (aside from the occasional Moss/Gronkowski/Jamie Collins ubertalent), is to prioritize players who take a measure of pride in their occupation. It's a difference maker the vast majority of the time. It extends beyond football. These catchwords like 'culture' and 'process' are all basically saying the same thing: make your job performance(you, as a player) the most important thing. Have pride in accomplishing your responsibilities. It isn't rah-rah type stuff...Belichick isn't a rah-rah coach at all. He looks for guys who treat football like a job they love. It's a veteran mindset....it's a hallmark of successful employers. 

[Buddo]

First half the Bills started well, and got a decent lead.

 

Then our not very special teams happened.

 

All the momentum that had been built up in gaining the lead, was evaporated by horrid STs play.

 

What could have been a repeat from a few weeks ago, suddenly became a game again, due to STs incompetence.

 

I understand where you are coming from on this Shaw, but I don't think truly, this was a game that we should have found a way to win. What we should have done,was found the way not to lose it, and we didn't due to (largely) STs play.

 

Allen aside, with McCoy crocked (and not looking too great anyway this year), we simply don't have enough offensive talent, to think we can find ways to get past the winning line at the death of games.

 

There are one or two bright spots (Foster and to a lesser extent, McKenzie), but the talent isn't there to do enough consistently well, to presume we should be able to grab a win.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

too conservative. way too conservative 

 

I just don't see how that style of coaching leads to any kind of success?

 

so far, it hasn't.

[Rockinon]

50 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, I know, put the game away early and all that.   

 

Do you think Bill Belichick is saying to his team, "just post better early and we won't have to make a play on some gadgets the Dolphins run"?  

 

The fact is that every team is in close games every season. Good teams make plays to win thise games.  They make plays because they are prepared to make them.  They are prepared for clock management issues. They are prepared to increase their intensity.  They are prepared to adjust based on what they've seen through the game.  

 

Coaches TEACH end of game strategy and practice situations.  

 

The Bills give me the feeling that they don't yet have what it takes. Some of it is just talent, to be sure.  And some of it is you can't win every game.  But some of it is being ready, and they don't look ready to me. 

With all of these youngsters being promoted to the active roster over the past few weeks, I'm not sure they are prepared for closing out these close games either.  Some aren't even coming from the practice squad but from another team. Roster turnover on the OL alone is just crazy. 

 

Daboll is also scheming up some crazy stuff.  Many of the play calls are actually making Josh Allen his own safety valve.  Receivers are often running routes to one side of the field and drawing defenders that way purposefully so Allen has a big empty spot to run to. To me, it looks like the Bills are still trying to find an identity. It's no mistake that Allen is ripping off big runs. The plays are specifically designed that way. They have not been able to open up running lanes in other ways so these option plays and jet sweeps are how they are getting something going.  I think the coaches know the OL is a complete tire fire so they are just trying some things that are pretty creative actually. 

 

Hate to say it, but the process is still playing out.

 

I think the OL will be a major priority in the off season. In the mean time the ride is just real bumpy.

 

 

[CaptnCoke11]

1 hour ago, PittsforDave said:

Conservative coaching will put us in positions like this. Hopefully with more talent, this won’t be an issue. 

It will still be an issue.  Close games happen a lot in the NFL.  Even the best teams lose close games.  

[Rockinon]

4 minutes ago, Buddo said:

First half the Bills started well, and got a decent lead.

 

Then our not very special teams happened.

 

All the momentum that had been built up in gaining the lead, was evaporated by horrid STs play.

 

What could have been a repeat from a few weeks ago, suddenly became a game again, due to STs incompetence.

 

I understand where you are coming from on this Shaw, but I don't think truly, this was a game that we should have found a way to win. What we should have done,was found the way not to lose it, and we didn't due to (largely) STs play.

 

Allen aside, with McCoy crocked (and not looking too great anyway this year), we simply don't have enough offensive talent, to think we can find ways to get past the winning line at the death of games.

 

There are one or two bright spots (Foster and to a lesser extent, McKenzie), but the talent isn't there to do enough consistently well, to presume we should be able to grab a win.

Special teams really did stink this one up. We need a competent punter, returner and gunner.  Also, blocking and tackling was horrible. Someone is asleep at the wheel.

[Hatszel]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

We were able to do it last year.  Bucs, Raiders, last fish game, and others.  What happened?  Now we're back to finding new ways to lose.  I thought Coach McDermott got us past that which is why we made the playoffs last year.

 

I also think it's because they (McDermott and Beane) are not really trying to win this year.

Incognito and Wood  that's what happened and no money to get replacements

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I have one reaction to the Jets game:  the Bills have now lost two games in a row by failing to make plays to win the game.  Didn’t make the plays against the Dolphins, and didn’t make the plays against the Jets.

 

I can only speculate about it.  It’s some combination of player talent and coaching.  I’d guess mostly coaching.  McDermott talks a good game, but I’m not sure how good he is at getting his team ready for anything that could happen.  

 

Whatever the reason, this team needs to learn how to close out games.  McDermott and the players have to learn.  That’s what good teams do.  Or maybe not; maybe it’s just that you win some (Titans, Jags) and you lose some (Texans, Dolphins, Jets).   

 

Not knowing how to close out games is not the issue.  Having the talent to close out games is without question the bigger issue.  We cant close games out when guys drop passes, the OL doesnt block or creates penalties, or guys whiff on ST.  This is a talent issue.  Our coaches and Allen got us in position to win both these games, but players just didn't make the plays when needed.  

 

I am not worried about our ability to close games, I am actually quite encouraged with the level of fight I see in our guys at the end of games.  Allen damn near single handedly won us the Miami game despite the OL doing him no favors, and our receivers not giving him a lot of support.  He did enough to win, the guys around him did not.  Zay once again failed in a big moment to make a starting WR level play.  Clay dropped a game winner after terribly mismanaging the situation to make the catch harder than it needed to be (Still should have caught it anyway).  

 

I mean our rookie QB has over the last 3 games accounted for about 85% of the entire offensive production.  And he is doing this behind a bad OL and weak talent around him at the skill positions.  We wont have issues closing out games once the OL can actually block without getting a penalty and guys can actually get open on their routes and catch the ball.  

[billsfan_34]

The Bills need talent to do such a thing

[Shaw66]

Although I agree that the Bills need talent, the talent they have seems to be good enough to play well for three quarters.   If the Jets and Dolphins had better talent, wouldn't they have led their entire games?   Did their talent get better in the fourth quarter?   I don't think so.  

 

Having said that, I agree very much that this is a young team, and it's a young HC.  They have a lot to learn.   So learning how to win is probably just one of those things that they need to learn.  

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Two weeks in a row we held leads late only to watch our defense crumble.

[Nester]

Dear Bills Management  

 

Please do not win the last 3 games. I know you want to, i know you can win at least two of them, but why?

It wont help us get to the playoffs. being 7-9 is just as useless as 4-12

 

This was supposed to be a building and training year, BUILD get that top 5 draft position so 2019 can be the start of a play off streak.

 

Let the Falcons, Raiders, Cardinals, 49s, Jags and Jets pass us in the standings...lets get those good picks. 

 

 

PLEASE do not think of pride, think of the future and lose those last 3 games. 

 

Thank you