David Carr: Vikings Made a Mistake Paying Cousins $84M

[26CornerBlitz]

David Carr: Vikes Made Mistake PAYING Cousins -- Plus, Updated Rankings

For the Minnesota Vikings, a 5-4-1 record feels about as disappointing as ham for Thanksgiving.

 

This year's up-and-down effort comes after a 2017 campaign filled with success -- a 13-3 regular-season record, NFC North title and an NFC Championship Game appearance. All of this with Case Keenumunder center, and he was playing on a one-year, $2 million deal. This offseason, the Vikings chose to let Keenum walk (to Denver) on a two-year, $36 million contract with $25 million in guarantees, and sign Kirk Cousins to a fully guaranteed three-year, $84 million contract. When comparing Keenum's production per start in Minnesota in 2017 to Cousins' starts this season, their overall performance isn't drastically different.

 

Keenum in 2017 (14 starts): 22 of 33 pass attempts, 243.4 passing ypg, 3:1 TD-to-INT ratio, 97.6 passer rating.
Cousins in 2018 (10 starts): 29 of 41 pass attempts, 294.7 passing ypg, 2.7:1 TD-to-INT ratio, 99.3 passer rating.

 

The issue is the Vikings are paying Cousins $10 million per year more than Keenum -- and committed $59 million more in guarantees -- for a drastic difference in performance. They're paying Cousins to be exceptional, and he hasn't been.

 

That's why I believe it was a mistake for Minnesota to pay him ALL that money.

[CaptnCoke11]

He’s playing just how he did in Washington.. Vikings got exactly who Kirk Cousins is and always will be.  That’s how free agency is though.. Yiu don’t overpay you don’t get the player.  

[MrEpsYtown]

I think they will regret it, but I think their real mistake was giving Riley Reiff and Mike Remmers a crap ton of money, because those guys suck. They need to keep Cousins upright. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by MrEpsYtown
Riley Reid is not a tackle

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

He’s playing just how he did in Washington.. Vikings got exactly who Kirk Cousins is and always will be.  That’s how free agency is though.. Yiu don’t overpay you don’t get the player.  

 

Agreed. Many here wanted the Bills to be in the Cousins sweepstakes.  I never thought it was a good idea. 

[PittsforDave]

Cousins was ALWAYS overrated. 

[LSHMEAB]

Cousins is not a winner. I generally hate those kind of generalizations, but there's just been too many years of the same thing with this guy.

 

There's those rare guys who defy analytics either positively or negatively, and I think Cousins is one of them.

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

5 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I think they will regret it, but I think their real mistake was giving Riley Reiff and Mike Remmers a crap ton of money, because those guys suck. They need to keep Cousins upright. 

 

 

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Cousins is not a winner. I generally hate those kind of generalizations, but there's just been too many years of the same thing with this guy.

 

There's those rare guys who defy analytics either positively or negatively, and I think Cousins is one of them.

 

 

He did seem to be padding his stats at the end of the game with the Bills.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

NEVER give a fully guaranteed contract to anyone.  There's no incentive and these guys always seem to take a step back.

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

He did seem to be padding his stats at the end of the game with the Bills.

 

He's very similar to Stat Padford.

 

Not a big fan of either guy. They're not terrible, but they never get it done consistently enough to be elite.

[MrEpsYtown]

12 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

 

Remember when every single mock draft had us taking Reiff? Yuck. 

[NoSaint]

30 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

David Carr: Vikes Made Mistake PAYING Cousins -- Plus, Updated Rankings

For the Minnesota Vikings, a 5-4-1 record feels about as disappointing as ham for Thanksgiving.

 

This year's up-and-down effort comes after a 2017 campaign filled with success -- a 13-3 regular-season record, NFC North title and an NFC Championship Game appearance. All of this with Case Keenumunder center, and he was playing on a one-year, $2 million deal. This offseason, the Vikings chose to let Keenum walk (to Denver) on a two-year, $36 million contract with $25 million in guarantees, and sign Kirk Cousins to a fully guaranteed three-year, $84 million contract. When comparing Keenum's production per start in Minnesota in 2017 to Cousins' starts this season, their overall performance isn't drastically different.

 

Keenum in 2017 (14 starts): 22 of 33 pass attempts, 243.4 passing ypg, 3:1 TD-to-INT ratio, 97.6 passer rating.
Cousins in 2018 (10 starts): 29 of 41 pass attempts, 294.7 passing ypg, 2.7:1 TD-to-INT ratio, 99.3 passer rating.

 

The issue is the Vikings are paying Cousins $10 million per year more than Keenum -- and committed $59 million more in guarantees -- for a drastic difference in performance. They're paying Cousins to be exceptional, and he hasn't been.

 

That's why I believe it was a mistake for Minnesota to pay him ALL that money.

 

 

Did they pay him for drastically better play than keenums ceiling? Or because Keenum was a risk to drop off and cousins was reliably the guy that would play at or a little above keenums ceiling?

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, NoSaint said:

Did they pay him for drastically better play than keenums ceiling? Or because Keenum was a risk to drop off and cousins was reliably the guy that would play at or a little above keenums ceiling?

 

$28M/year says the former, but he's not the kind of player that merits the hefty price tag like the upper echelon QBs around the league. 

[MrEpsYtown]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

 

Did they pay him for drastically better play than keenums ceiling? Or because Keenum was a risk to drop off and cousins was reliably the guy that would play at or a little above keenums ceiling?

 

I really think they thought Cousins was going to make them a Super Bowl contender and put them over the top. A lot of media people thought the same. Pat Elflein and Nick Easton's injuries have really hurt them. 

[Warcodered]

 

 

[NoSaint]

7 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I really think they thought Cousins was going to make them a Super Bowl contender and put them over the top. A lot of media people thought the same. Pat Elflein and Nick Easton's injuries have really hurt them. 

 

I get what your saying but they were 13-3 and in the NFCCG. They already were a contender. That’s why I was proposing the alternate framing that the goal was maintaining that status and avoiding keenum coming back to earth. That keeping that level of play or a small step up was the justification of the move.

14 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

$28M/year says the former, but he's not the kind of player that merits the hefty price tag like the upper echelon QBs around the league. 

 

Hes between Matt Ryan and garrapolo (with Stafford and Carr right behind JG) for perspective. He’s obviousky highly paid but kind of in line with the new line of deals

[ThunderGun]

51 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Agreed. Many here wanted the Bills to be in the Cousins sweepstakes.  I never thought it was a good idea. 

Still could’ve worked here with have two picks in each of the first 3 rounds to surround him with skill players on the cheap, like Brees is currently doing.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, ThunderGun said:

Still could’ve worked here with have two picks in each of the first 3 rounds to surround him with skill players on the cheap, like Brees is currently doing.

 

No thanks!

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

He’s playing just how he did in Washington.. Vikings got exactly who Kirk Cousins is and always will be.  That’s how free agency is though.. Yiu don’t overpay you don’t get the player.  

Like we did with Williams

23 minutes ago, ThunderGun said:

Still could’ve worked here with have two picks in each of the first 3 rounds to surround him with skill players on the cheap, like Brees is currently doing.

But I believe he had no interest in coming here.

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Like we did with Williams

But I believe he had no interest in coming here.

 

Neither side had any interest in the other.

[Mr. WEO]

Did he comment on the Raiders making a huge mistake paying so much for his brother? 

 

No?  That's weird.

[Fan in Chicago]

40 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

I get what your saying but they were 13-3 and in the NFCCG. They already were a contender. That’s why I was proposing the alternate framing that the goal was maintaining that status and avoiding keenum coming back to earth. That keeping that level of play or a small step up was the justification of the move.

 

Hes between Matt Ryan and garrapolo (with Stafford and Carr right behind JG) for perspective. He’s obviousky highly paid but kind of in line with the new line of deals

His cost aside, the point remains that Cousins has underperformed his contract. Matt Ryan elevates his team to a certain degree. From the three Vikes games i have seen and talking to a die-hard fan in my office, Cousins is pretty underwhelming. 

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Did he comment on the Raiders making a huge mistake paying so much for his brother? 

 

No?  That's weird.

Just for reference, you were a Derek Carr fan just a couple of years back, werent you ?

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

No quite the opposite...look it up.  Nice try though.

Purely going by memory so not going to get in a pi$$ing match with you. But I am pretty sure a couple of years back, you used to quote Derek Carr as an example of the next good QB. 

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

His cost aside, the point remains that Cousins has underperformed his contract. Matt Ryan elevates his team to a certain degree. From the three Vikes games i have seen and talking to a die-hard fan in my office, Cousins is pretty underwhelming. 

Just for reference, you were a Derek Carr fan just a couple of years back, werent you ?

Purely going by memory so not going to get in a pi$$ing match with you. But I am pretty sure a couple of years back, you used to quote Derek Carr as an example of the next good QB. 

 

 

He looked good for a year.  But straight downhill since'

[Fan in Chicago]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

He looked good for a year.  But straight downhill since'

Undoubtedly. I dont watch the Raiders and dont have a ready explanation for what happened. His performance has gone down liek Dak Prescott's (the new Trentative) 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

A nothing burger of a story.  

 

Raiders 2 wins 

Vikings 5-4-1

[Da webster guy]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I think they will regret it, but I think their real mistake was giving Riley Reiff and Mike Remmers a crap ton of money, because those guys suck. They need to keep Cousins upright. 

I dont know about Remmers, but Reiff has been on my radar since Jerry Hughes abused him all game, and he sure looks awful out there.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

David Carr: Vikes Made Mistake PAYING Cousins -- Plus, Updated Rankings

For the Minnesota Vikings, a 5-4-1 record feels about as disappointing as ham for Thanksgiving.

 

This year's up-and-down effort comes after a 2017 campaign filled with success -- a 13-3 regular-season record, NFC North title and an NFC Championship Game appearance. All of this with Case Keenumunder center, and he was playing on a one-year, $2 million deal. This offseason, the Vikings chose to let Keenum walk (to Denver) on a two-year, $36 million contract with $25 million in guarantees, and sign Kirk Cousins to a fully guaranteed three-year, $84 million contract. When comparing Keenum's production per start in Minnesota in 2017 to Cousins' starts this season, their overall performance isn't drastically different.

 

Keenum in 2017 (14 starts): 22 of 33 pass attempts, 243.4 passing ypg, 3:1 TD-to-INT ratio, 97.6 passer rating.
Cousins in 2018 (10 starts): 29 of 41 pass attempts, 294.7 passing ypg, 2.7:1 TD-to-INT ratio, 99.3 passer rating.

 

The issue is the Vikings are paying Cousins $10 million per year more than Keenum -- and committed $59 million more in guarantees -- for a drastic difference in performance. They're paying Cousins to be exceptional, and he hasn't been.

 

That's why I believe it was a mistake for Minnesota to pay him ALL that money.

 

Does anyone else think the departure of Shurmur and his replacement with DeFilipo as OC just may play a role? 

DeFilipo was not exactly a powerhouse of offensive impressiveness in his previous OC shot, though one can provide rationales/make excuses

Seems to me the real issue with the Vikes, though, is that last year their defense was #1.

This year for whatever reason, they are distinctly "meh"

[Freddie's Dead]

Disagree.  Other than the Bills game, Cousins isn't the reason they're 5-4-1.  Should be 6-4 with a decent FG kicker.  Their other losses are to the Rams, Saints, and Bears, not exactly chump change.  They're in the second WC slot in the NFC right now, so what's the issue, Cousins haterz?  He's getting paid like a current #1 in the NFL.  Turned down $90M with the Jest, so it's not all about the money.  And yes, I'm a Captain Kirk fan, thought we should have drafted him or Russell Wilson, instead of TJumptomakeacatch Graham.

[Thurman#1]

Is it a one-year contract or a four-year contract? 

 

I like Carr, he's smart, but he's reaching here. Too early to say.

[Witless Bills Fan]

I don't think pointing out his stat line supports the argument. Averaging almost 300 passing yds per game with an almost 3:1 TD:INT ratio is pretty good.

 

Stats only tell half the story because a garbage time TD drive looks just as pretty on the stat sheet as a game winning drive, but just going on stats alone, it's hard to say a QB Rating over 99 is coming up short.

[KD in CA]

3 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

 

Did they pay him for drastically better play than keenums ceiling? Or because Keenum was a risk to drop off and cousins was reliably the guy that would play at or a little above keenums ceiling?

 

Bingo.  No one ever said Cousins was Brees or Rodgers or Brady.  The assumption was that Keenum would regress from an outlier season (which has happened:  Denver is 4-6 and Keenum's numbers stink), and the Vikings only needed a solid tier 2 guy to get to the SB.   People love to look for excuses to bash the guy but he's been solid as expected.

 

The reason the Vikings aren't repeating last year's success is because the defense has fallen off.  They are giving up a full touchdown more per game this year vs last.

[billsfan89]

The Vikings needed a QB and Cousins was the best one out there. The Vikings shot their shot and it just didn't pan out. I don't think Cousins is bad but the Vikings won't be able to sustain an elite roster around a 28 million dollar a year QB. What made the Cousins move a sensible one was the fact that the Vikings had an elite roster that just needed a QB (Although their O-line was suspect) so that even with a slightly above average QB like Cousins they had a chance to compete. 

 

Sometimes you have to go for it in the NFL and that's what the Vikings did. Keenum is a subpar QB (I put him in the Tyrod category, starting caliber but below the Dalton line) they went with the much more expensive option however and it hasn't offered much of an upgrade. Hopefully the Vikings can upgrade the O-line a lot and keep the defense together enough for one more year. 

[Malazan]

and they could have had Tyrod for like 16m and a 3rd round pick.

[bills11]

Cousins isn't a top 5 qb but those don't come to free agency barring unforeseen circumstances...the vikings felt they were competent qb play away from championship contention..they thought the eagles game last year was an aberration..unfortunately their defence has regressed and their o line is atrocious

which is a recipe for disaster with an immobile qb. I dont think they made a mistake his contract is in line with what you pay a good qb these days..obv goff and wentz contracts will supersede the dollar amount  

[formerlyofCtown]

7 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

David Carr: Vikes Made Mistake PAYING Cousins -- Plus, Updated Rankings

For the Minnesota Vikings, a 5-4-1 record feels about as disappointing as ham for Thanksgiving.

 

This year's up-and-down effort comes after a 2017 campaign filled with success -- a 13-3 regular-season record, NFC North title and an NFC Championship Game appearance. All of this with Case Keenumunder center, and he was playing on a one-year, $2 million deal. This offseason, the Vikings chose to let Keenum walk (to Denver) on a two-year, $36 million contract with $25 million in guarantees, and sign Kirk Cousins to a fully guaranteed three-year, $84 million contract. When comparing Keenum's production per start in Minnesota in 2017 to Cousins' starts this season, their overall performance isn't drastically different.

 

Keenum in 2017 (14 starts): 22 of 33 pass attempts, 243.4 passing ypg, 3:1 TD-to-INT ratio, 97.6 passer rating.
Cousins in 2018 (10 starts): 29 of 41 pass attempts, 294.7 passing ypg, 2.7:1 TD-to-INT ratio, 99.3 passer rating.

 

The issue is the Vikings are paying Cousins $10 million per year more than Keenum -- and committed $59 million more in guarantees -- for a drastic difference in performance. They're paying Cousins to be exceptional, and he hasn't been.

 

That's why I believe it was a mistake for Minnesota to pay him ALL that money.

And how is Keenum doing this year.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Is it a one-year contract or a four-year contract? 

 

I like Carr, he's smart, but he's reaching here. Too early to say.

 

....wonder what he thinks about his brother's contract so far?.................

[Coach Tuesday]

The Vikings can’t or won’t run the ball, despite having talented RBs and despite spending on linemen.  That’s the issue with their offense.

[ProcessTruster]

I live in the DC area and watched the whole thing.   Cousins played it beautifully.   Hats off to him and his agent.   He is not a great player, just a very good one, and he got what the market would bear.    Not his fault the team around him is so so this year.   This year ain't over yet. 

[GunnerBill]

35 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

And how is Keenum doing this year.

 

Besides the point really..... because Keenum was a good fit in that offense. Now was his 2017 lightening in a bottle and his career year that he will never match? Probably. But the fact is he was a good fit there and he is better in moving pockets than Cousins which I do think helped their offensive line. Losing Pat Schurmer didn't help either in fairness. He is a good coordinator even if I remain unconvinced he is Head Coach material.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The Vikings can’t or won’t run the ball, despite having talented RBs and despite spending on linemen.  That’s the issue with their offense.

 

They can't. I've seen every Vikings game I think.... even that one week Latavius Murray went off against the atrocious Arizona Cardinals he was making a lot of his yards after contact. Their OL is getting zero push in the run game. I think DeFilippo is guilty of getting away from it a bit too quickly at times as well but I understand the temptation when you have two excellent WRs and your run game is going nowhere to put the game on Theilen and Diggs.

 

The line has regressed too. They lost both guards - Nick Easton to injury and Joe Berger to retirement - and they have been getting no push in the middle as a result. They have put Remmers inside from tackle to guard with less than convincing results. Reiff, who got abused pretty badly by Hughes, has always been a good right tackle slightly out of his depth at left tackle in my mind. He played okay last year and has been okay this year..... the issue really is inside. We have seen it with the Bills too. When you can't run up the middle AT ALL it affects the whole way you run your offense. It means the defense can stop the run without committing an extra man to the box and can play the edges much more effectively.