The True reason to fire McDermott

[That_Guy]

everyone in this thread needs to hug it out

[4BillsintheBurgh]

46 minutes ago, pop gun said:

So even knowing the coach was a wrong hire you want to stick with it just because? Nope keep hiring and firing until you have found the right guy.

Yes you stick with it and keep collecting talent, because being able to pick talented guys is what matters. If the coach depresses the talent you have, you will get better picks and a better chance at talent. Were were close because we were picking talented guys. Then you can bring in the right coach to lead the talent you have. It will be interesting to see who the Browns bring in, for example, to get the most out of their talent.

 

Our owners need to find a football guy to run the team for them so a dump of talented players won't be allowed and we can move forward. 

[Maybe Someday]

59 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

The fact that it is 2018 & not 1985. 

 

The winner of the game is determined by who scored the most points. So, build a team that is designed to score as many points as possible. 

For ****'s sake, I've had it with the "DEEEEEEFESNE WINZ CHAMPIONSHIPS" & "RUNNNNN THE BALL" nonsense. 

 

Throw quickly & often, score 28+ every week & you will beat the stupid teams like the Bills that are busy calculating "field position". 

 

Well, the solution is to stop hiring bad ones that don't have any idea how to run an innovative, modern offense. 

 

The real mistake is to waste another year or two on a clueless fossil like McDermott. 

 

With the wrong people, all "continuity" gets you is more losses. 

 

These are both great ideas in theory and I've seen the same basic concept posted again and again but you've got to have the players in order to make these work.  How innovative of an offense can you really run when you have a QB with the skillset of Tyrod Taylor or a raw rookie like Josh Allen?  Neither of which has shown the ability to consistently make quick reads and get the ball out.  Do you really want either of them throwing the ball 30+ times a game?  Do you believe that Daboll has the offense fully installed at this point and would be doing everything exactly the same way if we had a veteran QB?  Daboll has to restrict the offense to what Allen and now Anderson can handle.  I fully expect that as Allen improves and we add some players around him, the things we try to do on offense will expand as well.  Will Allen ever be good enough to fully run one of these innovative, modern offenses with all the checks and reads, I don't know but I do know that he is not able to mentally handle it right now.  Asking him to do so would probably be even more disastrous than what we've already seen. 

 

Also, the modern NFL is not only passing the ball despite what many seem to think, the best offenses in the league can also run the ball really well.  Over the coarse of history, that has usually been the case.  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

21 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Almost a year and a half on the job and no one knows what McDermott wants.

 

All he talks about is running the ball and playing defense, as if that's how you win in the NFL these days.

 

You win in the modern NFL by scoring points. Lots of points. 

 

All of the top teams right now have forward thinking progressive coaches who are trying to innovate. 

Who knows what we're trying to do, and that's a problem. We're scoring less than 12 points a game which is unheard of in the modern NFL.

What you are overlooking however, is that virtually every team that is putting up points has a complementary run game that keeps pass rushers honest and from just pinning their ears back, as would be for a team playing catch up and being in a pass only mode. Name a top 5 team that gets no production from their backs? If you think you don’t need competence at the RB position and a line that can open gashing holes for said RB’s then you are sorely mistaken. Buffalo has some competence at the RB spots but is still a work in progress. But the adage that a strong running game opens up the pass is still true. The bills have struggled to be consistent with the run and their WR’s struggle to do anything given their overall deficits, and the line struggles to pass block long enough for deeper patterns to develop.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

The fact that it is 2018 & not 1985. 

 

The winner of the game is determined by who scored the most points. So, build a team that is designed to score as many points as possible. 

For ****'s sake, I've had it with the "DEEEEEEFESNE WINZ CHAMPIONSHIPS" & "RUNNNNN THE BALL" nonsense. 

 

Throw quickly & often, score 28+ every week & you will beat the stupid teams like the Bills that are busy calculating "field position". 

 

Well, the solution is to stop hiring bad ones that don't have any idea how to run an innovative, modern offense. 

 

The real mistake is to waste another year or two on a clueless fossil like McDermott. 

 

With the wrong people, all "continuity" gets you is more losses. 

 

The lowest ranked rushing offense in the playoffs last year was the titans at 15.  Super bowl champs were 3rd, the jags were 1st, the panthers and saints were 4th and 5th.  Buffalo vikings chiefs rams and patriots were all top 10.  

 

So it seems like running the ball is kind of important to winning, and to scoring points.  

 

The defense part seems a bit unfounded too.  Seattle was good because of defense and won a super bowl.  Denver won a super bowl with gimpy armed peyton.  The harbaughs played in the super bowl with top defenses.  

[PatsFanNH]

Ok wow! This is how I see it from the outside:

 

2nd year coach and GM:

 

1st year broke the longest playoff drought in the NFL.

 

Second year went up and drafted what they feel will be their franchise QB. Now based off of what I heard the talking heads say about him then.. it was obvious the idea was for him to watch and learn from a vet. Sadly he outplayed the vets they had. (Or perhaps fortunately)

 

the team has been inconsistent all year. Allen shows flashes of his raw talent but as expected makes dumb mistakes like a rookie and runs to often. (Ok I hate running QBs they never seem to last in the NFL)

 

the O is lacking talent, they thought they had a #1 WR in Benjamin but he doesn’t appear get any separation and well seems done. 

 

My point is simple. I can see what their thought process was. Get a good defense that will keep us competitive while the rookie learns (preferably behind someone) then draft a few more playmakers on O. (Like a WR and maybe a RB in the 3rd or 4th round) then next year you have if it goes according to plan the Pats 2001 Offense.. good, doesn’t make mistakes with TO and feasts off of other team mistakes.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Yes, waiting 15-20 years for the Bills to be innovative & entertaining is soooo "entitled millennial". 

 

Fixed it for you.

By instant grat I mean you are expecting wins when you damn well know that you should not

 

and everything pointed to that before the season

[jrober38]

18 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

What you are overlooking however, is that virtually every team that is putting up points has a complementary run game that keeps pass rushers honest and from just pinning their ears back, as would be for a team playing catch up and being in a pass only mode. Name a top 5 team that gets no production from their backs? If you think you don’t need competence at the RB position and a line that can open gashing holes for said RB’s then you are sorely mistaken. Buffalo has some competence at the RB spots but is still a work in progress. But the adage that a strong running game opens up the pass is still true. The bills have struggled to be consistent with the run and their WR’s struggle to do anything given their overall deficits, and the line struggles to pass block long enough for deeper patterns to develop.

 

Our running game and OL are not the reason we're throwing for an NFL worst 129 yards per game.

 

Our passing game is horrible because our QBs are terrible at throwing the football. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Our running game and OL are not the reason we're throwing for an NFL worst 129 yards per game.

 

Our passing game is horrible because our QBs are terrible at throwing the football. 

I’m not disagreeing with you about the lack of good QB play, I’m just saying it’s a combination of problems offensively that contributes overall however to where we are at right now.

[Gigs]

Beane = Murray. Grab bag of picks with no clear plan, and adds “talent” by going against the grain. What’s Tim Murray up to as Sabres GM....oh wait. 

 

Beane is just another cog in the way of an actual GM. The Pegulas are slow to learn from their mistakes, but they eventually do; its growing pains. McBeane is just another sacrificial duo as they learn how to run a football team. Not many GM/HC combos can survive going to the playoffs then strip down the team, rush a raw QB, suffer horrendous seasons and still remain the GM/HC. 

 

The writing is on the wall and some of you older fans need to stop drinking the kool aid and drop the process nonesense because it’s making Jauron look ok

[jrober38]

Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I’m not disagreeing with you about the lack of good QB play, I’m just saying it’s a combination of problems offensively that contributes overall however to where we are at right now.

 

I don't think it does.

 

Other NFL teams have bad receivers, or a poor line, or no running game, or a combination of those things, and none of them are even remotely close to as bad as us when it comes to throwing the football. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't think it does.

 

Other NFL teams have bad receivers, or a poor line, or no running game, or a combination of those things, and none of them are even remotely close to as bad as us when it comes to throwing the football. 

The cardinals beg to differ, despite better talent than Buff across the offensive board.

[cgg716]

To those with the eagles D arguement. Note that they gave up 24 or more points 9 times last regular season. The definition for good defense is changing rapidly, as I suspect ppg to just continue climbing everywhere. They certainly weren't the 2000 ravens.. because this isn't 2000

[jrober38]

31 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

The cardinals beg to differ, despite better talent than Buff across the offensive board.

 

Exactly.

 

The supporting cast doesn't matter as much as people think when you're dealing with replacement level QB play. 

 

The Bills and the Cardinals are both terrible at throwing the ball because their QBs have been terrible all season. 

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Your point here does not say what you think it says. 

 

Help me out here please.

 

What point am I trying to make?  What does it really say?

[Avisan]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

If his is revisionist, that puts it on the same footing as yours.

 

Yeah, we backed in, but let's see some links of a bunch of forecasts mentioning "being annual contenders for the playoffs." Our recievers were worse than the ones we have now, the right side of the OL was (and is) weak, our LBs were considered very weak with Brown, Humber and Alexander as the expected starters and the safeties looked solid but not nearly as good as they ended up playing. We weren't expected to be good.

 

Yeah, we were very lucky to sneak into the playoffs. But the defense considerably outplaying expectations absolutely came down to the new regime.

 

And that's nonsense about identifying offensive talent. They have put their emphasis on the defense. They've used very little draft capital or FA money on the offense. But of the people they did bring in, Jones and Benjamin are finally beginning to play well, Dawkins looks like a huge success and Ducasse has been pretty solid, a significant FA bargain. The verdict is still out on Allen, of course. That could turn out to be an awful pickup. Or not. Too early to know.

Yeah no

 

Our WRs were fine and vastly more talented than what is currently on our roster, our O-line was solid at worst and had provided excellent running seasons for us, our LBers were similarly solid, and our D-line was expected to continue to be good.  Average defense at worst.

 

On offense our WRs were fine, as mentioned, our RB stable looked great, TE was looking pretty good... what we were missing and have been missing is a productive, efficient passer and good overall coaching decisions, the Bills' not being considered as annual contenders is specifically because we've been missing those elements

 

I really don't feel like doing the Thurman-thinks-he's-smarter-than-everyone-even-though-he's-of-pretty-standard-intelligence dance with you because it's exhausting and completely pointless but in a nutshell we underperformed relative to previous years on both sides of the ball last year but the way things shook out we made the playoffs anyway, and now the complete gutting of the roster is kicking in, yielding the atrocity we now see on the field

[BillsInWilmingtonNC]

Let McBeane show us this offseason what they have been working towards for the last 2 years.  You can't fire a coach who broke a ridiculous playoff drought and then has a down year while attempting to clear millions of dollars of bad contracts.  Let them sign players this offseason and see what they have built after that.  After next season, there are no excuses, we need to see a team that can compete with anyone in the league or then we start talking about who our next HC is going to be.

[Nihilarian]

I can see what McD is attempting to do by hiring Brian Daboll who would have taken over for Pats OC Josh McDaniel's had he gone to Indy. The thing is the Buffalo Bills don't have a top flight QB and it could take a few years to develop one.

 

In the meantime defenses do win championships and having a power run game helps that defense immensely by keeping them on the bench and fresh. It's my take that Daboll was the wrong hire and he doesn't have the knowledge to properly develop a rookie QB as raw as Josh Allen.

 

All that said the only real reason I can see to fire McD is that he needs to fix the penalties! The freaking drive killing, lining up wrong, false start, holding etc. Texans game was lost because of a lack of discipline! 12 penalties for 104 yards. Colts, 7 for 59 yards. Ravens, 10 for 100 yards. Some games it's not so bad and others it's just out of control. 

[MikeSpeed]

I fully expect us to draft high and that pick to be on the defensive side of the ball. I also believe that of our current 10 picks that more than half will be on the defensive side of the ball also. Of course those of you that believe you always draft the best player available might agree with them. I will always believe you should draft for need trading to make the best player available be a pick of need.

[billsfan_34]

3 hours ago, pop gun said:

So even knowing the coach was a wrong hire you want to stick with it just because? Nope keep hiring and firing until you have found the right guy.

If that is your philosophy so be it. Coaches in this league, imo, cant be succesful until you have a franchise QB and a complement of players to go with. Right now, he has neither yet. We can agree to disagree- and disclaimer, im not sold on McD but im willing to give it a little more time.

[Big Gun]

52 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

If that is your philosophy so be it. Coaches in this league, imo, cant be succesful until you have a franchise QB and a complement of players to go with. Right now, he has neither yet. We can agree to disagree- and disclaimer, im not sold on McD but im willing to give it a little more time.

I'll give you the QB part but there was talent here, McBeane was the one who decided to make this a talentless team.

[C.Biscuit97]

Relax everyone.  Dick McDermott is doing a great job.  

[Lurker]

On 10/22/2018 at 12:52 PM, cgg716 said:

 normally

 

Sober up, bud.   Don't end up like Chad Kelly...

[Bing Bong]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The difference being that McVay is reloading, not rebuilding. He joined a team with a GM who's been in place, building a solid roster for years and picking the #1 overall QB the year before he got there.

 

The Bills did not have a roster that would have made a reload tenable. They weren't good. The Rams had build a strong defense that was very young, and had brought in Gurley and Goff before McVay arrived, and they were in good shape with the salary cap.

 

But yeah, you make a good point, McVay was a lot better than Fisher. And you're certainly right that you don't always have to start over. Do you really think the 2015 Bills had enough talent to reload around? I don't, especially when Whaley had built a very mediocre squad while treating his salary cap situation like a sailor in port treats his pocket money.

 

If you do think we could have reloaded, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

All true. I suppose I'll counter that it's not black and white and there's you can better your football team by reloading and/or rebuilding. My end point ultimately is I don't like new GM/coaching regimes to have too much hubris that they insist on a rebuild with "their guys" because it's their way or the highway ie Jon Gruden.

 

I"ll put on my uninformed football czar cap and tell what I've agreed and disagreed with so far.

 

2014 Bills squad: i'd have retained Swatkins, dumped Tyrod (when they did agree with that move) played a cheap game manager quarterback this year such as say.. Glennon, KAEP?! (national media is roasting us and Jags for not getting better), Bridgewater, Matt Moore, Chase Daniel etc... idk I think a lot of backups had more experience game managing than McCarron for a similar price. And banked on ANY coach that could have motivated Dareus because that's the coach the roster needed.. if such a man exists. Point is McVay seems to get his roster of slackers to perform. Obvs in hindsight we could have gotten a good QB in 2017 draft but that's another question.. that's a good roster with some but not much cap relief (I think).. I'd dump Clay if we needed to.. he was clearly brought in for Roman/Taylor power run offense.

 

Say no coach on the planet can give us 2014 Dareus, say we're starting last off-season.. playoff team: make it better! Defensive unit was clearly good enough, spend some draft and FA capital on offense, maybe keep Tyrod who at least can get a W or 2 when the rest of the offense is ****in the bed. Draft O Line, WR, and keep up the fantastic garbage diving for secondary. I don't know if we have the draft capital to get Edmunds or Allen.. but if we love Allen we go Allen and keep Tyrod around year to year. Otherwise Tyrod and Edmunds.. point is I think THIS off-season was a junction where we failed to reload.. we had little cap but it was a rebuild simply by not giving a **** about the offense. Call it a hybrid at that juncture and friggin go offense, reload after a simultaneous rebuild that gave us a playoff team..

 

And maybe I'm crazy but I think the offensive linemen that retired, Cogs and Woods we're not ready to restart and were out simply because we dumped Tyrod. The vets are likely to go when they no longer recognize the offense they had so much success with pound and ground those 2 years. A hybrid rebuild is our intact 2015 offense with our great defensive coaching and secondary from 2017 along with draft capital aimed at WR and ANY FA capital at WR (although the wr class was weak)..

 

Any of that seem feasible to you? Just felt like we could have simply improved the offense, kept some vets along with the secondary core intact instead of following the master plan of building a Lego peice team by putting Legos on a defense unchanged that basically carried us to the playoffs and while tossing away Legos on the other offensive half.. we could have beefed up with Edmunds type and/or Allen type in 2 years rather than having a raw QB on a **** offense and a great rookie MLB in a unit that is already a strength at the same time.

 

and for the record I find the statement that the Rams were in a prime position regardless of what happened when Fisher left is dismissing just how good McVay was. AT THE TIME: Goff was a bust, Gurley had a bad year, the offense looked bad. They had one lynchpin in Aaron Donald and questionable pieces. They we're likely similar to us.. they went what.. like 4-12 under Fisher? I don't think people were saying they were a coaching staff away from reloading. It's apparent now they were, and that's sort of my theory on what I want new regimes to fully understand when they take over a team. DON'T BE A GRUDEN lol

Edited October 23, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[billsfan_34]

29 minutes ago, pop gun said:

I'll give you the QB part but there was talent here, McBeane was the one who decided to make this a talentless team.

I think they were trying to rip the band aid off and build it their way. I would of definitely tried to retain Woods- always thought he was a true football player. Watkins I get in a way- always hurt and not living up to his first round expectation- but then again tough to evaluate without a franchise QB right? I dont think anyone saw the Woods/Incognito thing coming- we lost 2/3 of our interior line.

 

I am not making excuses- like I said im not sold yet. Im just looking at this as the glass is half full right now. This is certainly a fun conversation my friend and I value your point of view and dont think your wrong, just think we need a little more time.

[twoandfourteen]

6 hours ago, Maybe Someday said:

 

These are both great ideas in theory and I've seen the same basic concept posted again and again but you've got to have the players in order to make these work.  How innovative of an offense can you really run when you have a QB with the skillset of Tyrod Taylor or a raw rookie like Josh Allen?  Neither of which has shown the ability to consistently make quick reads and get the ball out.  Do you really want either of them throwing the ball 30+ times a game?  Do you believe that Daboll has the offense fully installed at this point and would be doing everything exactly the same way if we had a veteran QB?  Daboll has to restrict the offense to what Allen and now Anderson can handle.  I fully expect that as Allen improves and we add some players around him, the things we try to do on offense will expand as well.  Will Allen ever be good enough to fully run one of these innovative, modern offenses with all the checks and reads, I don't know but I do know that he is not able to mentally handle it right now.  Asking him to do so would probably be even more disastrous than what we've already seen. 

 

Also, the modern NFL is not only passing the ball despite what many seem to think, the best offenses in the league can also run the ball really well.  Over the coarse of history, that has usually been the case.  

 

Maybe hire a coach & GM that will actually go out and make obtaining these players the top priority, instead of wasting time drafting DBs. 

 

I agree with all of the Allen points, however... maybe time, draft capital, and cap resources should have mostly been poured into the offense, so that the very-limited rookie QB that is literally going to make or break this franchise has a solid group to work with from day 1. 

 

Between the situation they dropped their most important asset into & the bizarre devotion to Peterman, I think very serious discussions concerning McD & B's future with the team are absolutely warranted. If I'm the owner -- It's game over for McD & B unless there are several legitimate signs of improvement between now and January.

[twoandfourteen]

6 hours ago, Maybe Someday said:

 

These are both great ideas in theory and I've seen the same basic concept posted again and again but you've got to have the players in order to make these work.  How innovative of an offense can you really run when you have a QB with the skillset of Tyrod Taylor or a raw rookie like Josh Allen?  Neither of which has shown the ability to consistently make quick reads and get the ball out.  Do you really want either of them throwing the ball 30+ times a game?  Do you believe that Daboll has the offense fully installed at this point and would be doing everything exactly the same way if we had a veteran QB?  Daboll has to restrict the offense to what Allen and now Anderson can handle.  I fully expect that as Allen improves and we add some players around him, the things we try to do on offense will expand as well.  Will Allen ever be good enough to fully run one of these innovative, modern offenses with all the checks and reads, I don't know but I do know that he is not able to mentally handle it right now.  Asking him to do so would probably be even more disastrous than what we've already seen. 

 

Also, the modern NFL is not only passing the ball despite what many seem to think, the best offenses in the league can also run the ball really well.  Over the coarse of history, that has usually been the case.  

 

I wonder if those numbers have anything to do with the defense being more concerned with trying to prevent 350 yards passing & 4 TDs, plus the fact that the best offenses are more likely to be running out the clock at the end of games. 

 

Everything revolves around the passing game now. 

 

Those quick hitters for 5-7 yds are the new "running game". Guys like Edelman & Thielen have replaced the workhorse RB. Snap, take a step, throw. 

 

Stupid teams smash the ball right into the middle of the line for a yard or two half the game. Smart teams get the ball downfield.

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, pop gun said:

I'll give you the QB part but there was talent here, McBeane was the one who decided to make this a talentless team.

 

AND McDermott helped. He pretty much ran the first draft and passed on 2 QBs that are  better, not to mention at least one we traded.  Beane was busy drafting McCaffrey.

 

McDermott is far from blameless when it comes to the (lack of) talent level on this team IMHO.

3 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

2014 Bills squad: i'd have retained Swatkins, dumped Tyrod (when they did agree with that move) played a cheap game manager quarterback this year such as say.. Glennon, KAEP?

 

Hotrod wasn't even on the team in 2014.  But yeah, sign Kaepernick.  Start him vs da Bears.

Edited October 23, 2018 by reddogblitz

[Bing Bong]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

Hotrod wasn't even on the team in 2014.  But yeah, sign Kaepernick.  Start him vs da Bears.

Just speculating on what could have happened. I don't think an extreme Jon Gruden type rebuild is necessary for any team. It comes across as a cop out for regimes that are unwilling to compromise a long-term vision of Their Own with the long-term ramifications of the pieces they are given. 

 

Last year we could have invested much more in the offense and been competitive. How does a hamper you when you rebuild filling in your weaknesses year-to-year? The ultimate goal is to be competitive on both sides of the ball. why not Leverage our defense strength to invest in offense. If the plan is to go all out on offense with all this cap I'm hearing about as well as draft capital why couldn't we have built up both sides in the course of 2 years rather than beefing up a defense that already proved they could carry a crap offense to the playoffs.

[RosenNOTchosen1]

Here are my reasons to fire McBeane.

 

1) Complete mismanagement of the quarterback position.

First we had the chance to draft Pat Mahomes who is arguably the most dynamic quarterback in the league. I know Whaley was technically the GM in charge at time, but let's be honest we all know McDermott was calling the shots. You mean to tell me he's that bad at evaluating QB's that he didn't want to draft Mahomes? Didn't he watch film on the college quarterbacks or what? Then we have the whole mess of a situation with Peterman. I don't even know why he's still on the roster. Yeah let's not even get into that. UGH.

 

2) Number of blowout losses.

McDermott has only coach 24 games thus far and 8 of them have been blowout losses. 1/3 of the games is an astounding numbers of games to be blown out in. Very alarming statistic.

 

3) Dubious draft picks, trades, free agent signings

-Giving up a 3rd round pick for Benjamin. I'd grade that trade an F.

-Paying Star Lotueleli 50 million just to take on double teams? Really you gotta pay a guy 50 million to take up double teams. 

-Trading up in the draft for Zay Jones. Not only is he not a good receiver but we actually traded up to get him. SMH.

 

4) Historically bad offense.

This may be the biggest reason to fire McDermott. This regime seems to be completely clueless on the offensive side of the ball. We're ranked dead last in offense and this has to be the worst offense in the NFL in years. I'm not sure if it's just brining in inept coordinator's or lack of talent but either way the results speak for themselves. We have 3 touchdown passes this season. Are you kidding me!? Say that out loud. 3 touchdown passes in the entire damn season. SMH. What makes anyone think the offense is gonna improve in year 3 with this regime? 

[Buffalo03]

On 10/22/2018 at 1:11 PM, clayboy54 said:

One thing I don't understand...

 

How is it that the past Bills organization under Ralph Wilson is constantly assumed to be the same organization under the Pegulas? Saying that the Bills organization has been bad for 50 years makes no sense when today's Bills are a new organization, except for Jim Overdorf.

 

Someone explain this to me, please.

Because the team has existed for 58 years and has been just as bad as it is now and sometimes worse under Ralph. By saying that the team is not the same team under Pegula is like saying that this team didn't exist for the first 54 years and we were an expansion team in 2014 which makes no sense. New ownership doesn't mean new team it's still the "Buffalo Bills". 

 

If Robert Kraft sold the Patriots and the new owner came in and got rid of Belichick, all of his coaches and the whole front office and started over with someone else but they still continue to dominate the league and win multiple Super Bowls over the next 10 years, would you say "The Patriots have only been good for 10 years"? You shouldn't because it makes no sense. They would be dominating for 30 years at that point. It's still the "New England Patriots". 

 

Another way to look at it is for 17 years we waited for the Bills to make the playoffs but we had like 7 different regimes and were constantly told to have patience under each regime because the current regime is not the last one ehich is true but it doesn't mean that all those other years they didn't make the playoffs didn't count. The "team" didn't make the playoffs for 17 years. Under your logic you would be saying every time we got a new regime "we haven't made the playoffs in 3 years" which is incorrect

Edited October 23, 2018 by Buffalo03

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Buffalo03 said:

 Another way to look at it is for 17 years we waited for the Bills to make the playoffs but we had like 7 different regimes and were constantly told to have patience under each regime because the current regime is not the last one ehich is true but it doesn't mean that all those other years they didn't make the playoffs didn't count. The "team" didn't make the playoffs for 17 years.

 

A -Freakin '-Men

 

 Bills fans are the most long suffering AND patient fans.

 

we made the playoffs last year and this year we 're the worst team in the league but it's cool. Be patient. Trust the process. We're gonna rock in 2020.  I hope I'm still alive.

[Bing Bong]

26 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

A -Freakin '-Men

 

 Bills fans are the most long suffering AND patient fans.

 

we made the playoffs last year and this year we 're the worst team in the league but it's cool. Be patient. Trust the process. We're gonna rock in 2020.  I hope I'm still alive.

You get a taste of the playoffs and all the sudden you never want to miss it again.. maybe that's why TBD is going nuts.

[iinii]

On 10/22/2018 at 11:59 AM, Wayne Arnold said:

LMAO at the posters who think this is exactly what McDermott wants.

 

Did you eat paint chips as a child?

It is what he has engineered 

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, Avisan said:

Yeah no

 

Our WRs were fine and vastly more talented than what is currently on our roster ...

 

Yeah, no, indeed. Our WRs were even worse than this year. Zay Jones and Benjamin have both started to look pretty decent the last two to three games.

 

Brandon Tate, Deonte Thompson, Jordan Matthews and the rookie Zay (plus Kaelin Clay and Taiwan Jones) weren't as good. They just weren't. They did have a slightly better QB throwing to them, but that didn't make them better, just in a slightly better situation.

 

 

15 hours ago, Avisan said:

... our LBers were similarly solid ...

 

 

Bwah ha ha ha ha. Oh, that's precious, Avisan, really. It's clear you didn't mean it to be, but that's hilarious. Yeah, Humber, Preston Brown and Alexander, the early starters last year, were better than Tremaine Edmunds, the second-year Matt Milano, and Alexander. Right, gotcha.

 

 

15 hours ago, Avisan said:

... and our D-line was expected to continue to be good.  Average defense at worst.

 

On offense our WRs were fine, as mentioned, our RB stable looked great, TE was looking pretty good... what we were missing and have been missing is a productive, efficient passer and good overall coaching decisions, the Bills' not being considered as annual contenders is specifically because we've been missing those elements

 

I really don't feel like doing the Thurman-thinks-he's-smarter-than-everyone-even-though-he's-of-pretty-standard-intelligence dance with you because it's exhausting and completely pointless but in a nutshell we underperformed relative to previous years on both sides of the ball last year but the way things shook out we made the playoffs anyway, and now the complete gutting of the roster is kicking in, yielding the atrocity we now see on the field

 

Right, average defense at worst. Great, go find all the preseason forecasts that predicted that, especially the "at worst" part. Some thought we'd be average but I'd love to see all of your links to the articles predicting we'd be average at worst on defense. In the real world, the D-line looked OK but nobody expected Tre to be as good as he was so early.

 

The D looked like it might possibly be decent but equally might be pretty bad, and the O looked like it would be sub-mediocre.

 

Not going to bother going point by point through your nonsense, but last post you amazingly said this:

 

On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 2:21 AM, Avisan said:

 

Buffalo consensus and national musings were that we were good coaching and competent QB play away from being annual contenders for the playoffs, 

 

... and I challenged you to produce a few of those articles that mentioned "being annual contenders for the playoffs." Surprisingly, you didn't link to any of them in this post ....

 

Still waiting ...

 

 

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, iinii said:

It is what he has engineered 

 

 

Yup. He engineered a rebuild, and this is what rebuilds look like this early.

 

It is painful, but that's the way these things go. We'll see over the next few years how good a job they've done.

 

 

9 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

Because the team has existed for 58 years and has been just as bad as it is now and sometimes worse under Ralph. By saying that the team is not the same team under Pegula is like saying that this team didn't exist for the first 54 years and we were an expansion team in 2014 which makes no sense. New ownership doesn't mean new team it's still the "Buffalo Bills". 

 

If Robert Kraft sold the Patriots and the new owner came in and got rid of Belichick, all of his coaches and the whole front office and started over with someone else but they still continue to dominate the league and win multiple Super Bowls over the next 10 years, would you say "The Patriots have only been good for 10 years"? You shouldn't because it makes no sense. They would be dominating for 30 years at that point. It's still the "New England Patriots". 

 

Another way to look at it is for 17 years we waited for the Bills to make the playoffs but we had like 7 different regimes and were constantly told to have patience under each regime because the current regime is not the last one ehich is true but it doesn't mean that all those other years they didn't make the playoffs didn't count. The "team" didn't make the playoffs for 17 years. Under your logic you would be saying every time we got a new regime "we haven't made the playoffs in 3 years" which is incorrect

 

 

Yeah, we've been really bad for a long time.

 

No, the vast majority of that isn't the new regime's fault. 

 

Yes, some fans have been very patient. Of course, some have screamed, moaned and whined for the whole 18 years, but let's look past that.

 

But no, the fact that we've been patient for a long time doesn't mean more patience isn't needed. 

 

"No matter how great the talent or efforts, some things just take time. You can't produce a baby in one month by getting nine women pregnant."   - Warren Buffett

 

Rebuilds are one of those things that just take time.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Chandler#81]

On 10/22/2018 at 12:55 PM, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

Gailey's offense was lightyears better  than this team in every position besides running back. I don't think he's trying to build a defense first team, so much as he inherited a team that already had most of the defensive pieces in place, and doesn't really need to be rebuilt like the offense does. 

 

? Star, Harry & Jordan Phillips, Murphy, Edmunds, Milano, T.White, Hyde, Poyer, Eddy Y, Taron Johnson & Phillip Gaines say ‘Hi!’

 

Only Lawson, LoAl, Hughes & Kyle were inherited.

 

To the OPs point, if this much talent can be amassed in a year & a half, in addition to Allen, Dawkins & Zey, would the team be more balanced talent-wise if these acquisitions were split like 8-7 instead of 12-3? Dead Cap burden notwithstanding, there was ample time to find replacements for the unexpected losses of Wood & Ritchie. McDermott’s archaic PROCESS the thread alludes to is a stark and valid observation. The reason we’re witnessing alarming blowout losses is we don’t have the horses to compete in high scoring affairs taking place everywhere in the League. 17, 20 & 24 point leads are overcome virtually every week now, by teams with “Great Defense”. Does anybody here think the Bills could overcome a 10 point deficit this year?

 

[oldmanfan]

He is not getting fired.  Rant all you want if it makes you feel better

[JerseyBills]

On 10/22/2018 at 12:55 PM, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

Gailey's offense was lightyears better  than this team in every position besides running back. I don't think he's trying to build a defense first team, so much as he inherited a team that already had most of the defensive pieces in place, and doesn't really need to be rebuilt like the offense does. 

That would make sense and all , except the defense he inherited 1.5 years ago only has 3 of the same starters, Kyle, Jerry and Lorax. We already rebuilt the defense

[The Process]

Is it a possibility that it was the plan to stack the defense this year rather than sprinkle in guys on both sides of the ball? A plan to just get by on offense and address it next draft and FA cycle. I mean ...you'd never admit that just like never admit you are tanking. Maybe it's all in the plan. I hope it's the plan....It better FREAKIN BE THE PLAN!!!!