The True reason to fire McDermott

[cgg716]

I’m not a doom and gloom guy normally but he has got to go for a simple reason, what he is attempting to build is no longer effective in the NFL.

 

We can not be defense first, not with these rules, we cannot have play calling from the 1970s, unable to take advantage of the rules. And two coordinators now have done this.

 

People that defend him will point to the talent, 11 pts a game in a league where 35 is routine runs so much deeper than that. We saw Gailey score plenty of points with the same talent level. Innovate or die, McDermott can’t innovate and he could ruin Allen out of that stubbornness.

 

The Rams and Bears did it, firing two more accomplished coaches to catch up to the league, the Bills have to as well 

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

Gailey's offense was lightyears better  than this team in every position besides running back. I don't think he's trying to build a defense first team, so much as he inherited a team that already had most of the defensive pieces in place, and doesn't really need to be rebuilt like the offense does. 

[JMF2006]

I thought for sure this thread would be about the clap

BTW whats wrong with a great D then build the O to be good or great?

Edited October 22, 2018 by JMF2006

[Wayne Arnold]

LMAO at the posters who think this is exactly what McDermott wants.

 

Did you eat paint chips as a child?

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

LMAO at the posters who think this is exactly what McDermott wants.

 

Did you eat paint chips as a child?

 

Almost a year and a half on the job and no one knows what McDermott wants.

 

All he talks about is running the ball and playing defense, as if that's how you win in the NFL these days.

 

You win in the modern NFL by scoring points. Lots of points. 

 

All of the top teams right now have forward thinking progressive coaches who are trying to innovate. 

Who knows what we're trying to do, and that's a problem. We're scoring less than 12 points a game which is unheard of in the modern NFL.

Edited October 22, 2018 by jrober38

[Avisan]

4 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

Gailey's offense was lightyears better  than this team in every position besides running back. I don't think he's trying to build a defense first team, so much as he inherited a team that already had most of the defensive pieces in place, and doesn't really need to be rebuilt like the offense does. 

Is this a joke?????

 

Our TEs were what, Scott Chandler?  Starting WRs were Donald Jones and David Nelson.  Stevie meshed well with Fitz but washed out of the league shortly after he left.  Our offensive line consisted of stalwarts like Demetress Bell and Geoff Handgartner and whatever bums we skimmed off of a practice squad to play guard any given week.  Wood ended up being a solid center once he moved over but we had NO offensive talent.

 

Pretty much ever single skill player we had under Chan is no longer in this league.

[Maybe Someday]

Yes, because firing the HC every 2 years and starting over is clearly the best way to win. 

 

[cgg716]

Nobody on Gaileys teams at the skill positions ever made an impact anywhere else. How much better were they really? Fine maybe he doesn’t want 11 pts a game, but he does want an old pro style offense, as evident by both of his OC hires, he’s way behind the times offensively, and the way the NFL is now you just can’t afford that

[Avisan]

1 minute ago, Maybe Someday said:

Yes, because firing the HC every 2 years and starting over is clearly the best way to win. 

 

Firing the HC every 2 years is necessary when you keep hiring bloody awful head coaches

 

Marrone was the best we'd had in ages and left of his own volition because the organization is a dumpster fire

[thebandit27]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Almost a year and a half on the job and no one knows what McDermott wants.

 

All he talks about is running the ball and playing defense, as if that's how you win in the NFL these days.

 

You win in the modern NFL by scoring points. Lots of points. 

 

All of the top teams right now have forward thinking progressive coaches who are trying to innovate. 

Who knows what we're trying to do, and that's a problem. We're scoring less than 12 points a game which is unheard of in the modern NFL.

 

Isn't it possible that he talks about running and defense because, right now, that's this team's only path to victory?

 

I agree that his vision for the offense is unclear at best, and a total miss at worst, but--to me--that's symptomatic of an offensive unit with zero talent.  Now, that's ultimately of his own making, but we're all fooling ourselves if we think he isn't very likely to get a 3rd year to surround Allen with talent that will prove him to be a success or failure.

[billspro]

If he stays Daboll must go 

[PIZ]

Big time offenses will get you to the playoffs, but defense DOES win championships.  That is the reason why these high powered offenses don't make it to the Super Bowl.  You need a strong (elite) defense and an effective offense.

[KD in CA]

2 minutes ago, Maybe Someday said:

Yes, because firing the HC every 2 years and starting over is clearly the best way to win. 

 

 

And if they happen to find a coach who ends a 17 year playoff drought his first year, he needs to be fired too because......'we backed in' or 'got lucky' or 'Peterman' or 'traded away all our talent' or 'Mahomes' or 'blahblahblah......'

[Mr. WEO]

13 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

Gailey's offense was lightyears better  than this team in every position besides running back. I don't think he's trying to build a defense first team, so much as he inherited a team that already had most of the defensive pieces in place, and doesn't really need to be rebuilt like the offense does. 

 

 

Then why did he get rid of so many of them?

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Isn't it possible that he talks about running and defense because, right now, that's this team's only path to victory?

 

I agree that his vision for the offense is unclear at best, and a total miss at worst, but--to me--that's symptomatic of an offensive unit with zero talent.  Now, that's ultimately of his own making, but we're all fooling ourselves if we think he isn't very likely to get a 3rd year to surround Allen with talent that will prove him to be a success or failure.

 

The fact that the offense has no talent is largely his fault.

 

They didn't have to trade away Watkins, Taylor and Glenn and make no attempt to re sign either Woods or Goodwin.

 

McDermott hired an awful OC last year, and appears to have hired an awful OC this year. Does anyone really think he's going to change his approach and get the next hire right?

Edited October 22, 2018 by jrober38

[thebandit27]

Just now, billspro said:

If he stays Daboll must go 

 

I don't see it happening.  The best chance that McDermott has to keep his job is to see Allen improve in year 2, and I'll bet money that McDermott believes that the best chance that Allen has to do that is if he has an entire season in the same offense.

[Albany,n.y.]

Every coach with an injured rookie QB needs to be fired.  The Rams & Bears new coaches each had 2nd year QBs who struggled in their rookie years and were already through their growing pains & then added key players that made them better.    I'm waiting to see what next year looks like before I think about everyone's future in the Bills management.  

 

Marrone looked pretty bad yesterday, benching his QB for Cody Kessler & then getting all surly about it after the game. 

 

...and Chan Gailey was the coach who punted on the opponent's 34 yard line.  I don't ever want to hear about how Gailey was a good coach. 

[clayboy54]

One thing I don't understand...

 

How is it that the past Bills organization under Ralph Wilson is constantly assumed to be the same organization under the Pegulas? Saying that the Bills organization has been bad for 50 years makes no sense when today's Bills are a new organization, except for Jim Overdorf.

 

Someone explain this to me, please.

[LabattBlue]

Yes.  If this is the "TRUE" reason, then I guess there is nothing to debate.  lol

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

The fact that the offense has no talent is largely his fault.

 

They didn't have to trade away Watkins, Taylor and Glenn and make no attempt to re sign either Woods or Goodwin.

 

McDermott hired an awful OC last year, and appears to have hired an awful OC this year. Does anyone really think he's going to change his approach and get the next hire right?

 

That's, like, exactly what I said:

 

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Isn't it possible that he talks about running and defense because, right now, that's this team's only path to victory?

 

I agree that his vision for the offense is unclear at best, and a total miss at worst, but--to me--that's symptomatic of an offensive unit with zero talent.  Now, that's ultimately of his own making, but we're all fooling ourselves if we think he isn't very likely to get a 3rd year to surround Allen with talent that will prove him to be a success or failure.

 

[billspro]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I don't see it happening.  The best chance that McDermott has to keep his job is to see Allen improve in year 2, and I'll bet money that McDermott believes that the best chance that Allen has to do that is if he has an entire season in the same offense.

 

I would prefer the Goff and Trubisky route.

[JM57]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Isn't it possible that he talks about running and defense because, right now, that's this team's only path to victory?

 

I agree that his vision for the offense is unclear at best, and a total miss at worst, but--to me--that's symptomatic of an offensive unit with zero talent.  Now, that's ultimately of his own making, but we're all fooling ourselves if we think he isn't very likely to get a 3rd year to surround Allen with talent that will prove him to be a success or failure.

It is possible yes, but if that is the case, he wouldn't have said on day one he believes in run and stop the run. He's not a progressive coach. They made a bad hire...again

[whatdrought]

The superbowl team last year showed that you can succeed by having a strong run game and a great defense as long as you have a decent QB when needed. 

[Wayne Arnold]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

Almost a year and a half on the job and no one knows what McDermott wants.

 

All he talks about is running the ball and playing defense, as if that's how you win in the NFL these days.

 

You win in the modern NFL by scoring points. Lots of points. 

 

All of the top teams right now have forward thinking progressive coaches who are trying to innovate. 

Who knows what we're trying to do, and that's a problem. We're scoring less than 12 points a game which is unheard of in the modern NFL.

 

When you don’t have a QB/system in place that is currently capable of scoring lots of points, the only way to win is by ugly rock fights - run the ball and play defense. 

 

Obviously, the hope is that Allen develops into the next Aaron Rodgers.

 

Some of you act as if McDermott prefers this. It’s a hand he’s been dealt and I think the league frowns upon forfeits so here we are. 

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, billspro said:

 

I would prefer the Goff and Trubisky route.

 

As do I...hire a forward-thinking offensive play-caller (say, Matt LaFleur) and use your cap space and draft picks to stock the roster with offensive talent.

 

Just now, JM57 said:

It is possible yes, but if that is the case, he wouldn't have said on day one he believes in run and stop the run. He's not a progressive coach. They made a bad hire...again

 

I'm not so sure that's true.  I think he saw that his only chance at wins right out of the gate was to use that model, and that's what he's preaching in order to get buy-in from his players.

 

Now, if that's truly his ultimate blueprint for building a perennial super bowl contender, then yes, you're absolutely right.

[frostbitmic]

2 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

When you don’t have a QB/system in place that is currently capable of scoring lots of points, the only way to win is by ugly rock fights - run the ball and play defense. 

 

Obviously, the hope is that Allen develops into the next Aaron Rodgers.

 

Some of you act as if McDermott prefers this. It’s a hand he’s been dealt and I think the league frowns upon forfeits so here we are. 

Don't underestimate the value of forfeiting.

[Dopey]

Man,

I thought you were bringing something new to the table!!! BOO!! BOO!!!

Come on MODS how many are we going to have?!?!

[billspro]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

 

As do I...hire a forward-thinking offensive play-caller (say, Matt LaFleur) and use your cap space and draft picks to stock the roster with offensive talent.

 

 

I'm not so sure that's true.  I think he saw that his only chance at wins right out of the gate was to use that model, and that's what he's preaching in order to get buy-in from his players.

 

Now, if that's truly his ultimate blueprint for building a perennial super bowl contender, then yes, you're absolutely right.

 

That is what they need to do to give the fans hope. It’s not fair to ask us to watch terrible offense every year.

[Maybe Someday]

Just now, Avisan said:

Firing the HC every 2 years is necessary when you keep hiring bloody awful head coaches

 

Marrone was the best we'd had in ages and left of his own volition because the organization is a dumpster fire

 

McD was so awful that in his 1st year he got a team expected to win maybe 6 games into the playoffs for the 1st time in 17 years. 

 

Both of his drafts appear to have been solid, I want to see him get a chance to finish what he started.  Maybe it works, maybe not but I am 100% certain that bringing in a new HC next year is not likely to all of a sudden turn this offense into a juggernaut. 

[JM57]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

As do I...hire a forward-thinking offensive play-caller (say, Matt LaFleur) and use your cap space and draft picks to stock the roster with offensive talent.

 

 

I'm not so sure that's true.  I think he saw that his only chance at wins right out of the gate was to use that model, and that's what he's preaching in order to get buy-in from his players.

 

Now, if that's truly his ultimate blueprint for building a perennial super bowl contender, then yes, you're absolutely right.

But that wasn't the case! They still had players on offense that could put up points! The offense wasn't what got Rex fired, it was him being a clown show and having a terrible defense. The offense wasn't world beating or consistent but it COULD score and they CHOSE to rip it to the studs.

[Chicken Boo]

It would be wildly unpopular amongst the media and NFL fans everywhere to fire Sean and/or Brandon after 1 season, especially after the playoff birth last season (Even if it was pure luck).

 

Unfortunately, this thing has to and WILL play itself out.  We're just delaying the inevitable, in my opinion, but I'm kind of ok with it.  Let the next Kyle Shanahan or Sean Mcvay make a name for himself.  We'll be in a prime position to pounce.

 

The long game...

Edited October 22, 2018 by Chicken Boo

[Avisan]

Just now, Maybe Someday said:

 

McD was so awful that in his 1st year he got a team expected to win maybe 6 games into the playoffs for the 1st time in 17 years. 

 

Both of his drafts appear to have been solid, I want to see him get a chance to finish what he started.  Maybe it works, maybe not but I am 100% certain that bringing in a new HC next year is not likely to all of a sudden turn this offense into a juggernaut. 

This is absolutely revisionist, FYI

 

Buffalo consensus and national musings were that we were good coaching and competent QB play away from being annual contenders for the playoffs, and we backed into the playoffs with a 9-7 record (not our first time) due to a miracle play by the Bengals.  The Bills' run defense tanked after the Dareus trade (and the Jags' was significantly bolstered, fancy that), and we went one-and-done in truly embarrassing fashion against the Jags.  Is it nice to have the monkey off our back?  Sure.  Is it a testament to the current HC and GM?  Hell nah.

 

Leadership has made several efforts to provide the team with offensive talent, the issue is that they absolutely stink at correctly valuing offensive talent.

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, JM57 said:

But that wasn't the case! They still had players on offense that could put up points! The offense wasn't what got Rex fired, it was him being a clown show and having a terrible defense. The offense wasn't world beating or consistent but it COULD score and they CHOSE to rip it to the studs.

 

Yep, that's true.

 

I am guessing that McDermott wanted to establish his own culture (as he said) while still being competitive, and felt that old school run-and-play-good-D was his only path to do so.  Now, if that's his long-term model, then yeah, I'm out.

[Big Gun]

8 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

When you don’t have a QB/system in place that is currently capable of scoring lots of points, the only way to win is by ugly rock fights - run the ball and play defense. 

 

Obviously, the hope is that Allen develops into the next Aaron Rodgers.

 

Some of you act as if McDermott prefers this. It’s a hand he’s been dealt and I think the league frowns upon forfeits so here we are. 

That's a big tub of poo.

 

This whole cluster was a McBean creation.

[wppete]

[Chris66]

17 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

The superbowl team last year showed that you can succeed by having a strong run game and a great defense as long as you have a decent QB when needed. 

That supetbowl winning defense gave up over 600 yds of offense and didnt force one punt.

[JGMcD2]

18 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

As do I...hire a forward-thinking offensive play-caller (say, Matt LaFleur) and use your cap space and draft picks to stock the roster with offensive talent.

 

 

I'm not so sure that's true.  I think he saw that his only chance at wins right out of the gate was to use that model, and that's what he's preaching in order to get buy-in from his players.

 

Now, if that's truly his ultimate blueprint for building a perennial super bowl contender, then yes, you're absolutely right.

Matt LaFleur huh? The offensive coordinator for the Tennessee Titans? 

 

The same Tennessee Titans who have only scored more than 20 points 1 time this year? The same Tennessee Titans who we held to 12 points?

 

yeah, ok.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

33 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Almost a year and a half on the job and no one knows what McDermott wants.

 

All he talks about is running the ball and playing defense, as if that's how you win in the NFL these days.

 

You win in the modern NFL by scoring points. Lots of points. 

 

All of the top teams right now have forward thinking progressive coaches who are trying to innovate. 

Who knows what we're trying to do, and that's a problem. We're scoring less than 12 points a game which is unheard of in the modern NFL.

So because he isn't scoring a lot of points he doesn't want to?  He has said numerous times that QB is the most important position on the field and that it is a pass first league.  At the end of the day, we do not have a QB.  There really isn't much he can do with what he has.  Now, you can see if was ill prepared for the season, that is fair. Although it misses the mark since it was clearly a rebuilding season, but it is still fair. 

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

You win in the modern NFL by scoring points. Lots of points.

 

Yet in 5 of the 13 games yesterday (38%), the winning team scored less than 25 points. 

[thebandit27]

34 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Matt LaFleur huh? The offensive coordinator for the Tennessee Titans? 

 

The same Tennessee Titans who have only scored more than 20 points 1 time this year? The same Tennessee Titans who we held to 12 points?

 

yeah, ok.

 

He's an example of a young, forward-thinking OC.  Did I say that's who they should hire? No...it was an example of the mold of coach they should be looking at IMO

 

Sometimes you need to look past the numbers in a single season. For example: would you hire an OC that had the 30th ranked offense in terms of points and 32nd ranked offense in terms of yards, purely based on reputation?  What if that same guy had previously coordinated an offense that finished top-5 in points scored, but had finished no better than 14th since?

 

That guy just so happened to be Mike McCarthy back in 2006, who went on to become a great HC in Green Bay.  He got that job because he was a forward-thinking OC and play-caller that could work with their young QB. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by thebandit27