Woods, Watkins, Hogan and Goodwin

[Real McClappy]

On 10/15/2018 at 11:25 PM, Dadonkadonk said:

With Watkins and Shady, they were top 10 in points scored.  And Rex destroyed the defense.  Is he worth two first round picks, no.  Was he a complete WR when healthy, yes!  He has deep speed and size to go over the middle.  He was the best combination of WR skills since Moulds. Not elite speed like Lee Evans, but enough to get deep on a regular basis.  And his contract would be perfectly fine on this team.  They could have given him his 5th year option and still had plenty of cap room.  

On another note, one might argue there was an injury risk.  Well he has not missed any time due to the foot. 

Beane messed up. Darby and Watkins are far better than Gaines, Mathews, and 2nd and 3rd round picks.  And in full disclosure I liked the Darby trade. I thought he was a one year wonder but he is playing well in Philadelphia.  I can admit I was wrong.  I doubt Beane will.  

People just bash on Watkins as the BILLS spent two 1st rd picks on him. It's not Watkins fault he got drafted were he went and that the Bills spent so much capital on him.

44 minutes ago, billsfan5121 said:

I didn’t read through the whole thread, but to me, this is more of an indictment on Taylor than anyone else.  That’s a lot of talent to not do much with.

It was a mix of Taylor as our QB and Rex destroying our D. People bash the hell out of Whaley but we were a average QB and coach away from great things. The roster averaged out to 8-8 over 4 years which is not world beater but so damn close with the circumstances. 

 

Ohh well, Let's see what Beane has in store this next offseason

Edited October 17, 2018 by Real McCoy

[oldmanfan]

5 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

I can see where you're coming from, and I agree with you about many fans changing their tunes after the fact.    However, my point is that the people who make personnel decisions do so without regard to fans' opinions -- or should make them without to regard to fans' opinions.  With the Bills, I'm not sure that's true.  Since Russ Brandon was handed control of the team in 2006, the Bills have frequently made personnel decisions based on how those moves would impact ticket sales.  I think the signing of Mario Williams and drafting EJ Manuel (from a simply terrible QB draft class from top to bottom) were both examples of that.   I think that Brandon's sticky fingerprints remain all over the current Bills team even after he was fired.  Neither McDermott nor Beane would have even been considered without having Brandon's prior approval.

Would you just stop with your nonsense.  This post is completely absurd.  The league has a committee that evaluates and suggests HC candidates and McD was prominent on that list.  He was a prime HC candidate.  As was Beane for a GM job.  The idea that neither would have even been considered if it weren't for Brandon is total crap.

[KD in CA]

On 10/16/2018 at 7:11 AM, blacklabel said:

 

Woods - rookie deal was up, he was a 2nd round pick so there's no 5th year option. They offered him a deal but he wanted to test free agency and who could blame him? He spent most of his first four seasons playing on run-first teams. He had a chance to go back home and play for a team that throws the ball all the time.

 

Goodwin - also was offered a deal to stay in Buffalo but wanted to try free agency. Missed 25 games during his four years in Buffalo.

 

Hogan - they signed him to an offer sheet, New England offered a bit more, business is business. Hogan's been the same receiver in NE he was here, averaging about 35 catches for 475 yards a season. It's not like he left Buffalo and instantly went and had 118 catches for 1200 yards and 14 TDs.

 

Watkins - Missed 13 games during his time in Buffalo. His best season was 2015, with the Bills. Wasn't featured in the Rams offense last year and isn't heavily featured in KC's offense right now, he has 22 catches for 272 yards and 1 TD. He was going to walk after his 4th season here once they declined to give him the 5th year option so instead of letting him head out the door for nothing, they traded him and got something in return. "They let him walk for nothin'!" is a common Bills fan trope... once a regime does the opposite and gets something in return for a player who was leaving anyway, some of y'all still whine. Plus, Watkins admitted to being more concerned with his personal stats than wins while he was here. 

 

The current offensive lineup isn't ideal but do your homework and realize why these guys aren't here anymore. It's not as if they were just kicked off the team. All except Watkins were offered to stay here but wanted to test free agency, that's just how this business works.

 

Woah, woah, woah.  They'll be no such rational explanations on this board, young man!!

[blacklabel]

40 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

 

Woah, woah, woah.  They'll be no such rational explanations on this board, young man!!

 

My bad. This crazy thing called "logic" must have found its way all up in my brains.

[mead107]

It is in the past people.    Get over it.  

 The tailgating goes on ?

If I could do a do over on mega millions I would be a multi millionaire. 

[blacklabel]

On 10/16/2018 at 11:12 AM, MAJBobby said:

 

And Whos choice was it to decline the 5th year option. Yep good ole McD. 

 

But hey he traded for a lesser, bigger, lazier and worse Attitude Kelvin Benjamin. 

 

Yeah, they were already in a cap mess, they weren't going to guarantee $14 million to a receiver who just came off two seasons in which he struggled with injuries and couldn't play in all 16 games. Say they offer the 5th year option and he gets hurt in the first game of the year, they're on the hook for that $14 million, they'd get zero production from him and he leaves in free agency. I'm a fan, I wanted Watkins to work out here, it just didn't happen. They made the right call by trading him for a 2nd round pick and EJ Gaines, it was either that or nothin'. 

 

The only reason Benjamin ends up here was because they found themselves in a spot with a legitimate chance to make the playoffs. So KB comes over, on his rookie deal, which is cheaper than Watkins, helps the team make the playoffs and yeah, he hasn't worked out. Sh*t happens, they'll live.

[Jaywrizzo]

On 10/15/2018 at 8:31 PM, RPbillsfan said:

Hard to believe this was our WR group in 2014-2015 in comparison to the hot garbage we are fielding now.

 

Makes me ill

Unbelievable.....This coach and GM know nothing about the Offensive side of the ball!

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Jaywrizzo said:

Unbelievable.....This coach and GM know nothing about the Offensive side of the ball!

I honestly don't know how many times this needs to be said but for some guys like Woods Beane wasn't even employed by the Bills.

 

I don't know how many times this needs to be said but Goodwin was hurt more than not when here andbit was not considered a loss when he left.

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, Tazor Face said:

 

Yeah I didn't say anything about who's better than what...but yeah Benjamin is better than Goodwin and so isn't Zay. Robert woods would have been nice to keep but cap situations and the fact he didn't seem to have much interest resigning, with no QB and a chance to play closer to home. And to add Watkins he is loaded with talent but hasn't exactly lit it up in his career which gives me the impression he has no more heart than Benjamin.

 

The Bills have made a practice of not re-signing their top young veterans at least since Russ Brandon took control of the team in 2006, and blaming the lack of cap space was a convenient excuse.  If you doubt that, look around the league at all the teams that manage to pay franchise QBs, premier receivers and OLers, as well as excellent defensive players so that those teams are frequent playoff teams.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, mead107 said:

It is in the past people.    Get over it.  

 The tailgating goes on ?

If I could do a do over on mega millions I would be a multi millionaire. 

 

 

The first step in addressing incompetence isn't to get over it..........it's to acknowledge it and see if there is a trend.

 

There is definitely a trend wrt McBeane and incompetence on the offensive side of the football.

 

They are pretty good wrt defense(except when they are awful) but building around defense in the NFL is short-sighted........and pretty easy.

 

You can build a defense in one good offseason of free agency and by hiring a good DC........and good DC's are a dime-a-dozen compared to good OC's.

 

But it's hard to maintain good defense............whereas offensive minded teams tend to be more consistent and have better staying power as contenders.

 

So the question is are these McBeane guys worth the time?     

[mead107]

Different people involved 

[keepthefaith]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I honestly don't know how many times this needs to be said but for some guys like Woods Beane wasn't even employed by the Bills.

 

I don't know how many times this needs to be said but Goodwin was hurt more than not when here andbit was not considered a loss when he left.

 

And he was training for the long jump which isn't the same as getting into top football shape. 

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, blacklabel said:

 

Yeah, they were already in a cap mess, they weren't going to guarantee $14 million to a receiver who just came off two seasons in which he struggled with injuries and couldn't play in all 16 games. Say they offer the 5th year option and he gets hurt in the first game of the year, they're on the hook for that $14 million, they'd get zero production from him and he leaves in free agency. I'm a fan, I wanted Watkins to work out here, it just didn't happen. They made the right call by trading him for a 2nd round pick and EJ Gaines, it was either that or nothin'. 

 

The only reason Benjamin ends up here was because they found themselves in a spot with a legitimate chance to make the playoffs. So KB comes over, on his rookie deal, which is cheaper than Watkins, helps the team make the playoffs and yeah, he hasn't worked out. Sh*t happens, they'll live.

 

 

Well, he was still on the original final year last year. This year would be the option.

[Jaywrizzo]

13 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I honestly don't know how many times this needs to be said but for some guys like Woods Beane wasn't even employed by the Bills.

 

I don't know how many times this needs to be said but Goodwin was hurt more than not when here andbit was not considered a loss when he left.

You're absolutely right about those 2 but what about Sammy? He finally gets healthy and they trade him bcuz they might not be able to sign him? Why bring in a tall and slow, Jordan Matthews......WHY BRING IN A TALL AND SLOW KELVIN BENJAMIN....WHY BRING IN A TALL AND SLOW ANDRE HOLMES....WHY BRING..ok, ok, I'm sure You get the point! McDermott was here when they drafted Zay Jones? So...once again....these dudes don't have a clue, what a wr is supposed to look like...they're not all supposed to look the same....one tall and slow Wr is enough.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Jaywrizzo said:

You're absolutely right about those 2 but what about Sammy? He finally gets healthy and they trade him bcuz they might not be able to sign him? Why bring in a tall and slow, Jordan Matthews......WHY BRING IN A TALL AND SLOW KELVIN BENJAMIN....WHY BRING IN A TALL AND SLOW ANDRE HOLMES....WHY BRING..ok, ok, I'm sure You get the point! McDermott was here when they drafted Zay Jones? So...once again....these dudes don't have a clue, what a wr is supposed to look like...they're not all supposed to look the same....one tall and slow Wr is enough.

I have said more times than I can count now that I'd like to still have Sammy.

[Chicken Boo]

On 10/15/2018 at 10:03 PM, mattynh said:

Other than Watkins who was injured people thought that group was trash. 

 

Typical of Bills fans.  

 

Kind of like how Allen was trash before we drafted him.

[BringBackOrton]

9 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

 

Well, he was still on the original final year last year. This year would be the option.

Yes. If you’re too afraid to tie up $14M because that player might have two separate season ending injuries, we probably should never sign anybody.

[leonbus23]

Good day for Watkins, Woods, and Goodwin. 

 

Hogan tomorrow. 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

3 minutes ago, leonbus23 said:

Good day for Watkins, Woods, and Goodwin. 

 

Hogan tomorrow. 

 

Don't forget Jordan Matthews

[OldTimer1960]

Don’t forget to add in Jordan Mathews who had near 100 yards today.

 

Maybe Doug Whaley was a pretty good judge of talent?

 

Stiil,  Bills could not afford to keep all those guys.  Watkins is making crazy $ and Robert Woods isn’t cheap.

[Matt_In_NH]

Someday people will realize buffalo is where WRs go to die.  It’s not the lack of WRs its the lack of qb

Edited October 28, 2018 by mattynh

[OldTimer1960]

On 10/17/2018 at 9:28 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The first step in addressing incompetence isn't to get over it..........it's to acknowledge it and see if there is a trend.

 

There is definitely a trend wrt McBeane and incompetence on the offensive side of the football.

 

They are pretty good wrt defense(except when they are awful) but building around defense in the NFL is short-sighted........and pretty easy.

 

You can build a defense in one good offseason of free agency and by hiring a good DC........and good DC's are a dime-a-dozen compared to good OC's.

 

But it's hard to maintain good defense............whereas offensive minded teams tend to be more consistent and have better staying power as contenders.

 

So the question is are these McBeane guys worth the time?     

If I recall correctly, the 2018 draft was Beane’s first in Buffalo.  McDermott was here (just new)  for the 2017 draft with scouting reports from the lame-duck FO.  Was McDermott supposed to trust the evaluations of Whaley and his staff when he (likely) knew that they would be let go right after the draft?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

'I'm late to the party again!  I thought you were talking golf!

[SoTier]

5 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Don’t forget to add in Jordan Mathews who had near 100 yards today.

 

Maybe Doug Whaley was a pretty good judge of talent?

 

Stiil,  Bills could not afford to keep all those guys.  Watkins is making crazy $ and Robert Woods isn’t cheap.

 

Jordan Matthews was a McDermott/Beane trade/signee.  

 

The Bills could have afforded to keep at least one of the WRs they sent packing.  They could have kept Woods and Goodwin or they could have kept Watkins.  Instead, they kept none of them.  Hell, they didn't even keep Matthews.   And the  McDermott/Beane cheerleaders expect these asshats to put together a respectable offense next year.   ROTFLMAO.

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Jordan Matthews was a McDermott/Beane trade/signee.  

 

The Bills could have afforded to keep at least one of the WRs they sent packing.  They could have kept Woods and Goodwin or they could have kept Watkins.  Instead, they kept none of them.  Hell, they didn't even keep Matthews.   And the  McDermott/Beane cheerleaders expect these asshats to put together a respectable offense next year.   ROTFLMAO.

 

 

Yeah but you see, the plan is that they have been saving their "offensive side" magical plan for NEXT offseason!

 

Read all about it right here.  Trust the process.  These guys are sandbagging the entire NFL.  All other FOs have no idea what's coming!!

[SoTier]

12 minutes ago, mattynh said:

Someday people will realize buffalo is where WRs go to die.  It’s not the lack of WRs is the lack of qb

 

No, it's the stupid, short-sighted, penny-pinching owners and their FO lackeys who play "moneyball" by hiring cheap, crappy neophyte HCs; by refusing to pay market rates for most of the good young vets coming off their rookie contracts;  by trying to foist backup and journeyman QBs; and by only drafting first round QBs when they absolutely need to in order to placate the fanbase.

[Boatdrinks]

On 10/17/2018 at 5:26 PM, mead107 said:

It is in the past people.    Get over it.  

 The tailgating goes on ?

If I could do a do over on mega millions I would be a multi millionaire. 

Ahh yes, the tailgating... At some point it would be great if the tailgate became secondary to the football. It actually was at one time. GMs and coaches do not get to use the if I had a do over excuse to keep their highly paid posts. They need to be right or they will be fired. Bills fans deserve good football after the last twenty or so years of futility. 

[Maine-iac]

They all look great else where ............. maybe they play for teams with good coaching on offense?  Talent wise I still think many of them are marginal.  Hogan has good hands, Goodwin is fast, Woods is a great route runner.  The only one with a truly dominant package is Watkins.  The difference they are all now playing for teams with a coach (HC or OC) who knows how to optimize talent and create opportunities against any defense.

[BADOLBILZ]

46 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

If I recall correctly, the 2018 draft was Beane’s first in Buffalo.  McDermott was here (just new)  for the 2017 draft with scouting reports from the lame-duck FO.  Was McDermott supposed to trust the evaluations of Whaley and his staff when he (likely) knew that they would be let go right after the draft?

 

 

Beane was McDermott's hand picked GM so whether you like it or not they are a package deal that dates back to the start of the 2017 offseason..........and McDermott didn't follow Whaley's draft board.........he used a combination of the Panthers scouting reports and the opinions of other people he knew like since-fired WR coach Phil McGeoghan who encouraged him to trade up in round 2 for Zay Jones.    Whaley and Pegula reportedly wanted Mahomes.    

[LABILLBACKER]

36 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Jordan Matthews was a McDermott/Beane trade/signee.  

 

The Bills could have afforded to keep at least one of the WRs they sent packing.  They could have kept Woods and Goodwin or they could have kept Watkins.  Instead, they kept none of them.  Hell, they didn't even keep Matthews.   And the  McDermott/Beane cheerleaders expect these asshats to put together a respectable offense next year.   ROTFLMAO.

I don't really care what regime you want to point the finger at. Or give the finger at. We were smart enough to draft all these above average wr's yet dumb enough to let them all slip away. The Billsy way lives on.

[Malazan]

On 10/15/2018 at 9:13 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Weird that the best offenses and coaches seem to want Sammy.

 

and I love the point that if you don’t win a championship, every player is worthless.

 

until they get him...then he's a "decoy"

[Tyrod's friend]

what is the difference?

I mean, at the end of the day, our QB isn't making the throws to the WRs that are open, today, right now.

Giving him more or better wide receivers (and we can leave that question as whether or not players were fakers. OMFG) isn't going to change the outcome of your rookie QB. If he doesn't throw the ball he is going to continue to have the worst offense in the history of football.