Josh Allen injury: “Week-to-Week” with elbow sprain; Returned to practice 11/2

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I looked at them all. Check out his performance for Jax, which comprised over half the season last year, and also look at his performance this season.  Also, there was this game:

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-jacksonville-jaguars-10-buffalo-bills-3

 

That was with Jacksonville.  Last year with the Bills he wasn't that good.  Why did the light go on?  Maybe getting traded woke him up.  Maybe Marrone and Coughlin laid it on the line and told him he had one shot to make his mark.  I just don't think we missed him much.  Our run D went down a bit but the team still made the playoffs last year.  And the D this year has really hit its stride.  Sometimes trades are good for both sides.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I didn't like McCarron either. I'm better than the Bills when it comes to spotting a loser at QB. So I didn't miss that. The reason they brought McCarron in and didn't pay more to get one of the better FA options was because they had too much faith in Nathan Peterman's ability to compete. And he is one of the worst NFL Quarterbacks of all time. They thought a player about whom that is an accurate description could compete. That is worth worrying about regardless of what you think.

Gunner, The juices of resentment and hostility are eating your innards. There are more substantive issues that should command your attention Let it go. 

https://www.bing.com/search?q=song+let+it+go&form=EDGHPT&qs=PF&cvid=275ed76a86754d0c8e577ea7d4ffb922&cc=US&setlang=en-US&PC=HCTS

 

[Fan in Chicago]

19 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but Dareus is a straight-up good player. He has played  quite well for Jax, actually. I get why the Bills traded him, and when you compare the results with his presence on the team and what followed his departure, it's pretty much a wash. My larger point is that sometimes, a culture needs to tolerate a few dissenters/wild men who happen to be extremely talented. Ask Al Davis and Parcells (who flat out said that Lawrence Taylor could follow a different set of rules because of his talent). Christ, Jim Schwartz has dealt with these sorts of guys his entire coaching career and has always gotten through to them (Dareus, Suh, Haynesworth, and now Michael Bennett, who looks like he's going to lose it every game).  Basically, you've gotta gamble a little with unruly talent. Th

Well said, Dave.i think back to Phil Jackson and the Bulls. He had to manage an ego maniac like Michael Jordon, a horny weirdo like Rodman and the nice boy Kerr to win multiple championships. 

[billspro]

19 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I looked at them all. Check out his performance for Jax, which comprised over half the season last year, and also look at his performance this season.  Also, there was this game:

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-jacksonville-jaguars-10-buffalo-bills-3

 

 

If I’m paying a DT 15-20 million per year he better be getting QB pressure and sacks. Dareus has 0 sacks this year. Also they have been struggling with run D lately, maybe he stopped trying again. 

 

Our Dline is much better at rushing the passer and stopping the run without him this year.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Well said, Dave.i think back to Phil Jackson and the Bulls. He had to manage an ego maniac like Michael Jordon, a horny weirdo like Rodman and the nice boy Kerr to win multiple championships. 

Yeah, but Jordan busted his ass even though he was the star.  Practiced hard, played hard, challenged his teammates constantly.   Best guy ever but worked his tail off.

 

Let's just say that's not Dareus' MO.

[Kelly the Dog]

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Yeah, but Jordan busted his ass even though he was the star.  Practiced hard, played hard, challenged his teammates constantly.   Best guy ever but worked his tail off.

 

Let's just say that's not Dareus' MO.

True but I don't think that is the point. It's more about managing big egos. Jackson had to deal with Jordan, Rodman, and Pippen at the same time. Three completely different guys and egos who needed different kinds of coddling and criticism. And Jackson was great at that element of the coaching profession that is often overlooked.

 

I think it was Del Harris who was coach of the Lakers who had a bunch of stars and couldn't get them to play but pretty soon after Jackson took over the Lakers were dominant. 

[GG]

5 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

True but I don't think that is the point. It's more about managing big egos. Jackson had to deal with Jordan, Rodman, and Pippen at the same time. Three completely different guys and egos who needed different kinds of coddling and criticism. And Jackson was great at that element of the coaching profession that is often overlooked.

 

I think it was Del Harris who was coach of the Lakers who had a bunch of stars and couldn't get them to play but pretty soon after Jackson took over the Lakers were dominant. 

 

Get ready for your Annie Hall moment ....

 

The point wasn't about managing egos, but managing talented, but unmotivated lazy POS's.  That wasn't LT, Hernandez, and especially not Jordan.

[LSHMEAB]

50 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

He was not one of the best players. And a discipline problem.  And your highest paid player can't be that guy.   True best players like a Jordan or Byrd or Brady bust their ass as hard in practice as in games. 

 

Are you really putting Byrd in the same company as MJ or Tom Brady? 

 

I mean the guy was a decent safety with good ball skills, but that's a stretch.

[Nihilarian]

3 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

The difference in the Trent fooling Gailey situation is that it is understandable. Trent had the arm. He could make all the throws. He shined in practice and preseason doing things that translate to the regular season. 

 

What he couldn’t do is handle the pressure literally and figuratively. Which became evident in regular season (it’s arguable that Chan should have seen that from previous seasons tape. I never thought Trent was good either). 

 

Nate lacks the physical ability to play in this league. He NEVER showed that in practice or preseason because it doesn’t exist. People here knew it to be true. McBeane should have seen it. 

I can understand why a HC would want to see for themselves how a player performs in their own system/scheme before fully evaluating them in regards to Edwards. The offensive line was so bad that year that when Fitz started playing he was literally running for his life most of the games before Nix finally brought in help off the waiver wire. There was a viable reason for that 0-8 start.

 

Fitz could handle it and Edwards couldn't. We all saw that Fitz would get to the line and bark out protections and even then he would end up running. Edwards was hapless in those situations. Kinda like Allen has been this year when Daboll doesn't run the ball and calls mostly pass plays in the first few games. The difference being Allen is fearless and tries to do his best and Edwards was at a point in his NFL career where he was basically already ruined from previous concussions. 

 

 

The bottom line though is as far as Peterman is concerned the only pick he threw in three preseason games was off the hands of Ivory. Plus, he completed 80.5% of his passes which is sorta insanely good. Yes, Peterman lacks the arm strength to make those out throws like Allen can but he also gets the ball out so much faster with a quick decision. Also for anyone who threw more than 33 passes Peterman threw for the 4th most yards in preseason (431). So, looking at everything I can see why someone who isn't an offensive minded coach (McD) would look at this and think that player is good enough to start or be a backup QB going into the 2018 season. 

 

That said, McD has no excuse for even keeping Peterman on the roster after that Ravens game performance. Things should have drastically changed right after that game with the QB situation. The only thing I can think of is that the offensive coaches (Daboll, Culley) must be telling the Bills FO that things can improve with a young, inexperienced QB. Otherwise I can't comprehend why the guy is still even on the roster. 

 

If Peterman can't make those out throws that went for a pick six, then who called that play? After all the guy did throw a perfect 16 yard TD pass to Zay Jones, and then later on completed a 20 yard pass on 3rd and 15 to Andre Holmes. Then with 4:46 left on the clock on 3rd down and 2 at the Bills 41 Daboll calls a run up the middle with Ivory for no gain. 

 

From my perspective the problems on offense are mostly because of the ineptitude of the current offensive coaches, OC, line coach. I really can't fault the Bills HC, GM for relying on the assistant coaches to do their jobs. If McD wants to keep his job, I gotta wonder if we will see another 10 games of this offensive mess. 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He said potentially career ALTERING.........which a UCL sprain is for a young QB.........so you are kinda' outraged about the take for no reason.

 

Allen has taken a beating.    The situation has been handled terribly......it's blatantly obvious....anyone who can't agree with that at this point is simply being obstinate.

 

 

 

They need to replace talent because they gave it away............and they haven't replaced it.

 

John we get it...........no matter what any current regime or ownership does you do not believe there should be any accountability.......what's done is done...........therefore they can do no ACTUAL wrong in your eyes.

 

That's why your opinion isn't debatable..........you are just a cheerleader..........you only criticize AFTER the player or exec is gone.

And Bado.....we also get it.....every single management of the bills is the same regardless if they are replaced....try something different....whatever

 

They are held accountable by what other managements have done in YOUR eyes and that is plainly obvious

 

I simply look to the situation the way it is now and what is going to be done to correct going forward....there is no reason to cry in the milk over what has been done we cannot go back and change it......simple as that

27 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

If I’m paying a DT 15-20 million per year he better be getting QB pressure and sacks. Dareus has 0 sacks this year. Also they have been struggling with run D lately, maybe he stopped trying again. 

 

Our Dline is much better at rushing the passer and stopping the run without him this year.

Marcel has motivation issues.....the guy could be the best DT in the league but he doesnt have the ticker

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Are you really putting Byrd in the same company as MJ or Tom Brady? 

 

I mean the guy was a decent safety with good ball skills, but that's a stretch.

Larry.  Just saw my typo.  Good catch.

[Kelly the Dog]

20 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Get ready for your Annie Hall moment ....

 

The point wasn't about managing egos, but managing talented, but unmotivated lazy POS's.  That wasn't LT, Hernandez, and especially not Jordan.

That was your point. I was responding to the Jordan Rodman and Kerr point. Which wasn’t about lazy pos.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

I looked at them all. Check out his performance for Jax, which comprised over half the season last year, and also look at his performance this season.  Also, there was this game:

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-jacksonville-jaguars-10-buffalo-bills-3

 

I find it ironic that Dareus is now embracing the role he was against playing here, in this scheme, under these coaches. 

 

Great player (when he wanted to be).

 

Not a a good match with the new staff in Buffalo. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

14 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I find it ironic that Dareus is now embracing the role he was against playing here, in this scheme, under these coaches. 

 

Great player (when he wanted to be).

 

Not a a good match with the new staff in Buffalo. 

 

<tired mcdermott hater refrain>

 

yes, but a good coach should be able to make do with malcontents!

 

</tired mcdermott hater refrain>

 

hope you're prepared for that.

 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

That was with Jacksonville.  Last year with the Bills he wasn't that good.  Why did the light go on?  Maybe getting traded woke him up.  Maybe Marrone and Coughlin laid it on the line and told him he had one shot to make his mark.  I just don't think we missed him much.  Our run D went down a bit but the team still made the playoffs last year.  And the D this year has really hit its stride.  Sometimes trades are good for both sides.

Very fair point, although the Bills got hardly anything for him ( outside of a cash dump).

[K-9]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

<tired mcdermott hater refrain>

 

yes, but a good coach should be able to make do with malcontents!

 

</tired mcdermott hater refrain>

 

hope you're prepared for that.

 

Marrone must be one helluva coach. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Marrone must be one helluva coach. 

 

It would be worthwhile to know how much of the mcdermott hater set loves marrone...or should i day LOVED him when he was here.

 

[dave mcbride]

13 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

It would be worthwhile to know how much of the mcdermott hater set loves marrone...or should i day LOVED him when he was here.

 

I think most of us here like McDermott. He’s a good coach. That said, he has some tics and flaws and isn’t perfect. I always thought Marrone was a solid coach when he was here. I didn’t want to see him leave.

[Dr. Who]

16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think most of us here like McDermott. He’s a good coach. That said, he has some tics and flaws and isn’t perfect. I always thought Marrone was a solid coach when he was here. I didn’t want to see him leave.

I think a lot of folks didn't like Marrone's personality. I didn't. He appears to be a pretty good coach. I think Opie is somewhat more likeable, but I don't have much confidence he has a clue how to develop a young qb or improve the offense. Next offseason will be crucial in terms of personnel adds.

[Fan in Chicago]

2 hours ago, GG said:

 

Get ready for your Annie Hall moment ....

 

The point wasn't about managing egos, but managing talented, but unmotivated lazy POS's.  That wasn't LT, Hernandez, and especially not Jordan.

My point was that one of the coaches job is to get all sorts of personalities to work together with the singular goal of winning games. They need talent (Dareus, Watkins) or hard working (Woods). Coaching is so much more than game planning and schemes. McD certainly displays a lack of patience with players who don't come in with built-in 'process acceptance'. He is not going to find the likes of Kyle Williams at every position. 

 

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Fan in Chicago said:

My point was that one of the coaches job is to get all sorts of personalities to work together with the singular goal of winning games. They need talent (Dareus, Watkins) or hard working (Woods). Coaching is so much more than game planning and schemes. McD certainly displays a lack of patience with players who don't come in with built-in 'process acceptance'. He is not going to find the likes of Kyle Williams at every position. 

 

Yes they do.  And he did try to work with Dareus.  And Dareus did not want to listen.   He just brought this Phillips guy in at DT and he played pretty well his first game after essentially getting thrown out of Miami.  Shady is not exactly the most stable personality on the planet and McD has no problem with him.  Benjamin is another - why is it people scream about how they should have let KB go after last week for his lack of effort, but when Dareus didn't give effort they should have coddled him?

 

In general, I don't think McD has a problem with guys as long as they focus on football, do their work in the room and in the field.  Dedicate themselves.  Are we really at the point where that is too much to ask?

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

I think most of us here like McDermott. He’s a good coach. That said, he has some tics and flaws and isn’t perfect. I always thought Marrone was a solid coach when he was here. I didn’t want to see him leave.

 

 

Yep.........he's a good coach.

 

The Bills have hired some good coaches to be their HC during the drought.

 

Most were outstanding coordinators who just didn't have the chops to be an NFL HC...........but the last 3 actually have, IMO.

 

They've all just been given too much authority and gotten carried away with the power.

 

Now Marrone lives on a leash of his own making........Pegula is being robbed by Rex Ryan for overpaying and overpowering him...........and McD inherited a nice roster and a first round pick that lined up perfectly to get a franchise QB and has turned what most new HC's would consider a leg up into a re-build.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

That was with Jacksonville.  Last year with the Bills he wasn't that good.  Why did the light go on?  Maybe getting traded woke him up.  Maybe Marrone and Coughlin laid it on the line and told him he had one shot to make his mark.  I just don't think we missed him much.  Our run D went down a bit but the team still made the playoffs last year.  And the D this year has really hit its stride.  Sometimes trades are good for both sides.

 

Nah.

 

Dareus played well for McD.

 

The talk in the weeks before Dareus was traded was about how well he was playing and how the seemingly impossible was happening...........McD and Dareus were coexisting and thriving.

 

 

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Nah.

 

Dareus played well for McD.

 

The talk in the weeks before Dareus was traded was about how well he was playing and how the seemingly impossible was happening...........McD and Dareus were coexisting and thriving.

 

 

 

Not arguing, just curious.....so why did they ship him out? Was it all about the cap?

 

It’s a shame he couldn’t stay focused, because he has the talent to earn that contract. 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Not arguing, just curious.....so why did they ship him out? Was it all about the cap?

 

It’s a shame he couldn’t stay focused, because he has the talent to earn that contract. 

 

McD wasn't satisfied with the degree of buy-in.

 

I don't know if he was drinking his own koolaid and thought he could scheme around the loss of Dareus or what.........but if so the subsequent humiliation would explain the HEAVY investment made this offseason to get the defense back to their early 2017 season level.

[GG]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

McD wasn't satisfied with the degree of buy-in.

 

I don't know if he was drinking his own koolaid and thought he could scheme around the loss of Dareus or what.........but if so the subsequent humiliation would explain the HEAVY investment made this offseason to get the defense back to their early 2017 season level.

What's your definition of heavy?  Investment in Star is just a bit over one half of what it cost to keep Dareus.   

 

I'd say a decent return without the distraction and possiblity of one more strike. 

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

McD wasn't satisfied with the degree of buy-in.

 

I don't know if he was drinking his own koolaid and thought he could scheme around the loss of Dareus or what.........but if so the subsequent humiliation would explain the HEAVY investment made this offseason to get the defense back to their early 2017 season level.

 

Again, not arguing but the bold doesn’t seem to match with “ McD and Dareus were coexisting and thriving.” 

 

We’ll never know, and it’s water under the bridge, so I just hope we use the new cap space and picks wisely to build something special. 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, GG said:

What's your definition of heavy?  Investment in Star is just a bit over one half of what it cost to keep Dareus.   

 

I'd say a decent return without the distraction and possiblity of one more strike. 

 

 

Cap figure - cost to get rid of = cost to keep

 

Dareus base salary(cost to keep) for this season was scheduled to be a bit over $9M.

 

Star's new deal averages $10M per.

 

$10M is considerably more than half of $9M.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

29 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Again, not arguing but the bold doesn’t seem to match with “ McD and Dareus were coexisting and thriving.” 

 

We’ll never know, and it’s water under the bridge, so I just hope we use the new cap space and picks wisely to build something special. 

 

 

Yep.......but then conventional wisdom is "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

 

It clearly wasn't broke.........the team was playing their ***** off and was a pretty deserving 5-2.........and even thisclose to being 6-1 (if Zay doesn't stumble out of his break in Carolina).

 

That was the first move to almost instantly explode in McBeane's face...........all the other dumb moves took actual time to flesh out as bad.

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

This thread is now just weirdly off topic 

[Lfod]

4 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Not arguing, just curious.....so why did they ship him out? Was it all about the cap?

 

It’s a shame he couldn’t stay focused, because he has the talent to earn that contract. 

Herpes are nasty. 

[FearLess Price]

7 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Yes they do.  And he did try to work with Dareus.  And Dareus did not want to listen.   He just brought this Phillips guy in at DT and he played pretty well his first game after essentially getting thrown out of Miami.  Shady is not exactly the most stable personality on the planet and McD has no problem with him.  Benjamin is another - why is it people scream about how they should have let KB go after last week for his lack of effort, but when Dareus didn't give effort they should have coddled him?

 

In general, I don't think McD has a problem with guys as long as they focus on football, do their work in the room and in the field.  Dedicate themselves.  Are we really at the point where that is too much to ask?

 

Im not disagreeing with you but Lazy Dareus > Sloth Benjamin

[Uncle Joe]

8 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

This thread is now just weirdly off topic 

You don't see the connection of Allen's injured elbow and Dareus' lazy arse?

Neither do I. And I thought Tangent was a city in Oregon. Silly me.

[Mrbojanglezs]

9 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

This thread is now just weirdly off topic 

 

they should cap the pages in a thread to 20 pages max, because after that all we get are food recipes,  hidden links to Peter Pan, and references to Dunkirk Don 

[K-9]

5 hours ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

 

they should cap the pages in a thread to 20 pages max, because after that all we get are food recipes,  hidden links to Peter Pan, and references to Dunkirk Don 

 

 

And as Dunkirk Don would say, "Don't forget to connect the dots."

[Mrbojanglezs]

7 minutes ago, K-9 said:

 

 

And as Dunkirk Don would say, "Don't forget to connect the dots."

 

Trifecta

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

 

Trifecta

That's what I was aiming for. 

 

C'mon, not even a chuckle?

[chaccof]

So how exactly did he injure it?  I've seen the video but doesn't look like he got hit or hit a helmet.  Or is it just "one of those things"?  That would concern me.  

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, chaccof said:

So how exactly did he injure it?  I've seen the video but doesn't look like he got hit or hit a helmet.  Or is it just "one of those things"?  That would concern me.  

He got hit by Mercilus and Clowney at the same time 

 

Quote

In 

true Bills fashion, QB Josh Allen suffered a UCL (ulnar collateral ligament) injury to the elbow. This was the result of a bang bang play as Allen got hit from the left by Clowney, followed by Mercilus hit from the right, coming up underneath, hyperextending the rookie’s elbow.

The reason it was the UCL that was injured was due to where the force came from. It came from below and outside the arm, pushing the inner portion of the arm up and out via the hyperextension, partially tearing the ligament.

https://bangedupbills.com/2018/10/16/week-6-bills-injury-review-texans-and-allens-elbow/

Edited October 20, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[Commish]

and this thread has veered, atypically, back on topic...