Josh Allen injury: “Week-to-Week” with elbow sprain; Returned to practice 11/2

[Coach Tuesday]

12 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

That and with Allen's injury they appear to be late in getting him replaced.

 

I mean, can we all step back for a minute and take in the sheer LUNACY of what is now happening?  The Bills’ PR machine today was squirting out nuggets like it is a “blessing in disguise” for Allen to have a “front row seat” to watch DEREK ANDERSON.  Are you effing kidding me?  It is in NO WAY a blessing to have the highly-invested QB suffer a potentially career-altering injury - which was completely predictable (in fact, I predicted it three weeks ago here), nor will it help his development to sit and watch (from the “front row,” no less) a guy who is known for stat lines like 3-17 for 49 yards.

 

Watching Derek Anderson play produces thoughts of suicide, it doesn’t help young QBs develop.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Coach Tuesday

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

I mean, can we all step back for a minute and take in the sheer LUNACY of what is now happening?  The Bills’ PR machine today was squirting out nuggets like it is a “blessing in disguise” for Allen to have a “front row seat” to watch DEREK ANDERSON.  Are you effing kidding me?  It is in NO WAY a blessing to have the highly-invested QB suffer a potentially career-altering injury - which was completely predictable (in fact, I predicted it three weeks ago here), nor will it help his development to sit and watch (from the “front row,” no less) a guy who is known for stat lines like 3-17 for 49 yards.

 

Watching Derek Anderson play produces thoughts of suicide, it doesn’t help young QBs develop.

To be fair that blessing in disguise bit came from Allen and is essentially him finding a positive way of looking at this and moving forward. But besides that there is more Allen might be able to learn from Anderson then how he performs in the game such as how he prepares and breaks down film of the opposing defense.

[Boatdrinks]

33 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Again, so there is no misunderstanding about it: I predict that within 2-3 weeks we start hearing tangible reports that the owners are furious. 

Yeah, after the imminent prime time MNF debacle vs New England sounds about right. 

[JimKellyTryouts]

17 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Yeah, after the imminent prime time MNF debacle vs New England sounds about right. 

 

Can't be a debacle if we don't do anything positive to begin with

*insert Bruce-Smith looking head tapping meme*

 

23 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

I mean, can we all step back for a minute and take in the sheer LUNACY of what is now happening?  The Bills’ PR machine today was squirting out nuggets like it is a “blessing in disguise” for Allen to have a “front row seat” to watch DEREK ANDERSON.  Are you effing kidding me?  It is in NO WAY a blessing to have the highly-invested QB suffer a potentially career-altering injury - which was completely predictable (in fact, I predicted it three weeks ago here), nor will it help his development to sit and watch (from the “front row,” no less) a guy who is known for stat lines like 3-17 for 49 yards.

 

Watching Derek Anderson play produces thoughts of suicide, it doesn’t help young QBs develop.

 

That's what Josh himself said, though. He's just trying to stay positive and getting the **** off the field while he isn't ready to play and without much around him to help him out, I view it as a blessing of sorts, too. 

 

The "career-ending" injury schtick here is a little over-dramatic, and to go back in hindsight and say you could predict an injury coming...what exactly does that accomplish? Injuries can happen to anyone, anytime. I'm not supporting management one bit for the way this position has been handled and am as pissed off as the next guy, but come on dude. 

Edited October 18, 2018 by JimKellyTryouts

[Nihilarian]

7 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Again, so there is no misunderstanding about it: I predict that within 2-3 weeks we start hearing tangible reports that the owners are furious. 

Looking over what's happened with the Buffalo Saber's over the last few years I doubt the owners are that impatient so they become furious in the next few weeks. We Bills fans might become that way...at least some might. 

 

Looking over what happened with Peterman, AJ McCarron and now Derek Anderson from what Steve Tasker stated on his show was that the Bills were interested in signing Anderson at the same time they were looking to sign AJ McCarron. Anderson was contemplating different option's with other teams before he finally agreed to sign with Buffalo and that was mostly to be a mentor to Allen. I kind of doubt he thought he would be put in the position of starting. 

 

Looking at Andersons history with Carolina and his relationship with Cam Newton and how he mentored Newton. I can now see why the team FO waited to sign a veteran QB they knew would be okay with being a backup and could actually have a value to mentor Allen.  

 

As far as Peterman in concerned I can see why this offensive coaching staff was fooled by Peterman into thinking he could be the starter while Allen develops. Trent Edwards also managed to fool Chan Gailey by working hard, trying hard, doing everything right in practice. Peterman is also young and inexperienced and the thinking must be that he will get better with more development time. 

 

My take is the main problem right now is that because McD is defensive minded he must be relying on his offensive coaching staff for input on these QBs and clearly like Chan Gailey they have no clue.  Gailey was extremely lucky that Fitz was on the team because he stated in training camp that Brian Brohm, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Trent Edwards were all about equal in ability...which they weren't...not even close.

 

Fitz also stated that nobody ever worked with him on his mechanics, setup, delivery before QB coach David Lee worked with him before the 2012 season. Lee did manage to screw up Fitz that year. So Gailey was no QB guru and I highly doubt from what I've seen so far from Brian Daboll, David Cully are either. 

 

If anyone becomes furious I think it might be McD at some point over the next few weeks as he watches Daboll do to Anderson what he did to Allen is forcing him to carry the entire offense by passing all game long. Anderson should be okay if not asked to do too much and that I mean by mostly handing the ball off to Shady and managing the game with 3rd and short situations. I think McD wants to win games and hates seeing his defense get screwed over by a bad offensive like they were against the Texans.

 

If all these offensive penalties continue with players killing drives because they don't know where to line up, false start, hold. Even good veteran QBs would have difficulty overcoming 12 penalties for 104 yards that kept killing drives. So, If anything happens it might be McD replacing Daboll with Terry Robiskie after the next few weeks if things don't get corrected.  

[oldmanfan]

5 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Again, so there is no misunderstanding about it: I predict that within 2-3 weeks we start hearing tangible reports that the owners are furious. 

The Bills will win 1 or 2 of the next 3, and McD and Beane will be here quite a while.  The Pegulas with both their teams realize now that you can't keep changing coaches and front office and expect to win.

[oldmanfan]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Simple recap of the McDermott-made tear down in Buffalo commonly mischaracterized as a rebuild:

 

Prime aged former 1st round picks McD let walk or dealt for far below worth to the team:

-Stephon Gilmore (signed by rival.....excels, goes to SB......his departure increased pressure to add a first round DB......perhaps facilitating a fateful trade)

-Marcel Dareus (highest draft pick in past 35 years......run D went to hell without....6-10 record since trade)

-Sammy Watkins (two firsts were invested in him.......WR corps since his departure has been worst stretch in team history)

 

Prime age former second round picks McD let walk or dealt for much below their worth:

-Bob Woods (blossomed into a very good WR in LA)

-Ronald Darby (the other starting CB has turned into a star for Philly)

-Cordy Glenn (excellent LT.......been a key for Cincy getting back into contention this season)

 

Third rounder

-Marquise Goodwin (would have been the #1 WR option last season)

 

Basically ridded the team of very good players who had accounted for 7 recent first and second round picks.

 

No team can withstand that kind of gutting and not find themselves short of assets to even replace them......let alone get better quick.

 

I love me some Josh Allen........hope he bounces back and turns into a franchise QB but this team should never have been in position to be on the "step back" this year.

 

Ahem.

 

Some of these guys left before Beane arrived so he does not get he lane for that.

 

You may want to actually watch the Pats and Eagles D before talking about how great Gilmore and Darby are.  Darby specifically I've see reports they won't pick up his fifth year.

 

Dareus was a big tub of non-motivated goo when here.  You can't have your highest player be that.  And you may want to check two things:  we made the playoffs without him, and with Star vs. him our D looks dominant right now.

 

Goodwin was constantly injured with us.  

 

The others?  Woods would have been nice to keep but he wanted to be back on the West coast.  Glenn would have been nice to keep, but trading him put us in position to get our young QB.  And I'd still like Sammy to be here even though he is the highest paid 4th receiving option in the league.

 

Oh and spreading out cap hits?  Rip the bandage off quickly or slowly.  Next year a ton of cap money.  My bet:  a number of guys that may be a bit under the radar like Poyer was.  Focus on O line, get a decent WR or two, and look out for the Bills.

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

The Bills will win 1 or 2 of the next 3, and McD and Beane will be here quite a while.  The Pegulas with both their teams realize now that you can't keep changing coaches and front office and expect to win.

Look how changing coaches ruined the Rams. Or the Eagles.  They should definitely stuck with Fisher and Chip Kelly.  

This is one of the biggest points of confusion among fans that don't understand things.  In the last thirty years coaches are retained for long tenures because they win.  It does not work in the other direction that teams win because coaches are retained for a long time.  Coaching is like any position on the field. If there is a chance to improve you can. 

Are you mad at McDermott for changing OC's .  Should Pegula lecture him on the importance of continuity in coaching? Should McDermott keep Daboll for years, even if he thinks he is inept? 

[oldmanfan]

29 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Look how changing coaches ruined the Rams. Or the Eagles.  They should definitely stuck with Fisher and Chip Kelly.  

This is one of the biggest points of confusion among fans that don't understand things.  In the last thirty years coaches are retained for long tenures because they win.  It does not work in the other direction that teams win because coaches are retained for a long time.  Coaching is like any position on the field. If there is a chance to improve you can. 

Are you mad at McDermott for changing OC's .  Should Pegula lecture him on the importance of continuity in coaching? Should McDermott keep Daboll for years, even if he thinks he is inept? 

Coaches should stay when they win.  Were we a playoff team last year?  Yes.  Go look at articles written by guys that know the league.  McD is admired as a guy who took a less talented roster to the playoffs.

 

Did Fisher win?  No.  Kelly?  No.  

 

Continuity is important in terms of setting a philosophy, which allows one to make draft picks that fit, FAs that fit, etc. That's how you build a consistently competitive team.  People that understand football and moreover how successful organizations work  understand those things.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 hours ago, JohnC said:

The mistake that was made was getting McCarron. As it turned out Peterman out-played McCarron in camp. Does that make him a better qb? No. But based on performance he earned a spot ahead of McCarron. Go back and listen to the WGR interview with Peter King. He pointed out that McCarron wasn't interested in tutoring a rookie qb. He came to Buffalo to start. So when he didn't start he wanted out, and he was accommodated. The mistake that this regime made was getting McCarron instead of getting another vet placeholder. 

 

Next offseason the Bills are going to have a large amount of cap to work with and a full complement of draft picks. Assuming those assets are wisely utilized I'm hoping the roster will be significantly bolstered. The bottom line for this strategy to work is how Josh Allen develops. That's the primary issue that will determine success or failure. 

This is probably true.   

 

I posted something the other day ....  IIRC    Of all the QB's that were even available at the time the only decent one left was Teddy.   Cousins was already scooped up and Alex Smith went to DC.   The rest have been benched in favor of the rookie. 

 

McCarron's performance was underwhelming and I expected better from him.  

 

7 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

I mean, can we all step back for a minute and take in the sheer LUNACY of what is now happening?  The Bills’ PR machine today was squirting out nuggets like it is a “blessing in disguise” for Allen to have a “front row seat” to watch DEREK ANDERSON.  Are you effing kidding me?  It is in NO WAY a blessing to have the highly-invested QB suffer a potentially career-altering injury - which was completely predictable (in fact, I predicted it three weeks ago here), nor will it help his development to sit and watch (from the “front row,” no less) a guy who is known for stat lines like 3-17 for 49 yards.

 

Watching Derek Anderson play produces thoughts of suicide, it doesn’t help young QBs develop.

 

Peterman isn't starting.  Count your blessings.  

 

The rookie QB can't play.  What other choice is there? 

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

The Bills will win 1 or 2 of the next 3, and McD and Beane will be here quite a while.  The Pegulas with both their teams realize now that you can't keep changing coaches and front office and expect to win.

3-5 by mid season isn't that horrific all things considered.  

[MrEpsYtown]

I believe Josh when he says this is a blessing in disguise and I kind of feel the same way. If you think of the first part of the season with more of a preseason mentality like Bill Belichick, then Josh is right. His first few starts were filled with ups and downs and he got a feel for the game. Now he gets an opportunity to take a step back and watch the game a bit and take mental reps and things of that nature. So I am kind of looking at this weekend's game as the first game of the season, and the first half of the season as extended pre-season. 

 

Now we get what we kind of wanted all along. Allen got his feet wet with some valuable game experience, and now he gets to watch a veteran play, and hopefully come back in and make an impact when ready. This was a clean way to pull him back and out of the starting lineup without having to hurt his confidence and progress. It's not a demotion because he is hurt. And if the team feels like keeping him out longer, I think it is fine. 

 

There are ten games left. So let's say Josh sits for the next 3-4 weeks and ideally returns for the Jets game, or after the bye, we are in a  good spot because he can re-enter the starting lineup and hopefully be ready to roll. What is nice about that, is you have the Jets twice, the Dolphins twice, and NE and Detroit (who run similar systems). That makes gameplanning a bit easier and we can really see Allen make adjustments in a short period of time facing teh same teams and concepts more than once.   

[GG]

8 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

No, the mistake they made is keeping and starting Peterman. It's inarguable.

 

This is it in a nutshell.   

 

Would be interesting to see how people will rationalize that Les Snead is suddenly a genius as soon as Goff started playing better, and ignore the roster & coaching churn between 2016 & 2017

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

No, the mistake they made is keeping and starting Peterman. It's inarguable.

There is a fixation on Peterman that is disproportionate to his role. He was a backup. And now, when Allen is healthy, will either be replaced or sent further down the ladder. The more substantive issues for this team in the future is the OL and the receiver corps. Buttressing those units as opposed to being insanely absorbed with who the backup are more important issues.  

[GG]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

There is a fixation on Peterman that is disproportionate to his role. He was a backup. And now, when Allen is healthy, will either be replaced or sent further down the ladder. The more substantive issues for this team in the future is the OL and the receiver corps. Buttressing those units as opposed to being insanely absorbed with who the backup are more important issues.  

 

Those issues are more important for next season. 

 

There is the proper focus on Peterman this year, because the important people in the Bills front office thought it was prudent to go into the season with him as a starter, and then a primary backup.   

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, GG said:

 

This is it in a nutshell.   

 

Would be interesting to see how people will rationalize that Les Snead is suddenly a genius as soon as Goff started playing better, and ignore the roster & coaching churn between 2016 & 2017

 

Les Snead's first go round with the Rams was characterised by sticking with an awful coach and a roster totally lacking in offensive talent. He was very lucky to get a second go at it to my mind but since he did you have to say he has done a nice job. 

[GG]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Les Snead's first go round with the Rams was characterised by sticking with an awful coach and a roster totally lacking in offensive talent. He was very lucky to get a second go at it to my mind but since he did you have to say he has done a nice job. 

 

I'm not disputing any of that, but pointing out that Snead also gutted his roster of overpriced underperforming veterans.  Yet his roster churn wouldn't nearly be successful if Goff didn't turn things around in his second year, or if a fluke injury forced Sean Mannion into the starting line up.

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, JohnC said:

There is a fixation on Peterman that is disproportionate to his role. He was a backup. And now, when Allen is healthy, will either be replaced or sent further down the ladder. The more substantive issues for this team in the future is the OL and the receiver corps. Buttressing those units as opposed to being insanely absorbed with who the backup are more important issues.  

 

But he had no right to be a backup. That was the point from day 1.

 

They picked him. Alright a mistake immediately for me but they took a shot on a late round QB fair enough.

 

Despite a pre-season where he barely completed 50% of his passes they benched a serviceable starting Quarterback in the middle of a playoff race to start Peterman. Huge mistake, massively backfired. It happens, McDermott turned it around got the team back on track and made the playoffs.

 

I can kind of give them a pass on those two errors. Everything that has happened since is totally indefensible. 

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

John, I don’t think you’re right about the soundness of the McBeane Khmer Rouge approach to the roster - but even if you are, I’m quite certain the owners didn’t sign up for it.  You make it sound like the team is acting in concert pursuant to a settled script and that’s really where I think you go off the rails.  There is simply NO WAY that the Pegulas thought they were stomaching a 4-5 year gut reno.  McDermott acts like he’s at the helm of some cushy college program where he’s been assured enough time to wait for his first recruiting class to blossom into seniors and IMHO he is SORELY mistaken about that.

 

Again, I have been saying this since August - many of us have - these are reactive owners who hate being embarrassed and are patient until all of a sudden they aren’t and I predict that the patience will run out sometime over the next two weeks when Anderson’s custard melts all over the field.  It’s going to be awful football to watch, the fans are going to lose it and the owners are going to take notice and react.  How what will all manifest itself vis-a-vis Pol Pot McBean remains to be seen but we will see cracks in the OBD facade, I can almost guarantee it.

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you on what the new regime intended to do from the start. And it is my firm belief that the ownership was on board with the wrestling coach's strategy. In fact, I'll even go farther that it was McDermott selling his approach to the job is what got him hired. 

 

As soon as McDermott was hired he was empowered and Whaley was neutered. And as soon as the contracts ran out Whaley's scouting department was summarily dispatched. It was the owner who immediately gave McDermott unfettered authority. To believe that the owner didn't know what McDermott had in mind makes no sense. 

 

People get upset when they hear the word rebuild because as you noted they believe that it is a long term period of being lost in the woods. But in this case that isn't true. Do you need to be reminded that the Bills (surprisingly and unexpectedly)  made the playoffs in McDermott's first year. And to make that achievement even more impressive is that it was done with a stripped down team. And do you need to be reminded that after more than a full generation has gone by in only one year this regime made a commitment to draft a legitimate franchise qb. And that's exactly what was done. 

 

Rebuilding isn't an instantaneous process. Our defense is now very good while our offense is very hollow. No one is arguing otherwise. But entering next year we have a lot of cap space and picks to upgrade that lagging unit. 

 

If you want to get upset with the timetable then direct your aggravation at the owner's stupendously stupid hire of Rex. His two year stint was not only a waste but it set this franchise back forcing the new regime to take more time and resources to clean up his mess. 

 

While other wallow in their self-induced misery I am confident that this franchise is following a rational plan of rebuilding.. You don't have to agree on everything but in general there is a coherency and rationality to what is being done. It was never going to be easy and be without stumbles. But in general if one stands back and puts things in perspective there is progress. 

Edited October 18, 2018 by JohnC

[thebandit27]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Ahem.

 

Some of these guys left before Beane arrived so he does not get he lane for that.

 

You may want to actually watch the Pats and Eagles D before talking about how great Gilmore and Darby are.  Darby specifically I've see reports they won't pick up his fifth year.

 

Dareus was a big tub of non-motivated goo when here.  You can't have your highest player be that.  And you may want to check two things:  we made the playoffs without him, and with Star vs. him our D looks dominant right now.

 

Goodwin was constantly injured with us.  

 

The others?  Woods would have been nice to keep but he wanted to be back on the West coast.  Glenn would have been nice to keep, but trading him put us in position to get our young QB.  And I'd still like Sammy to be here even though he is the highest paid 4th receiving option in the league.

 

Oh and spreading out cap hits?  Rip the bandage off quickly or slowly.  Next year a ton of cap money.  My bet:  a number of guys that may be a bit under the radar like Poyer was.  Focus on O line, get a decent WR or two, and look out for the Bills.

 

A few items of note:

- Darby doesn't have a 5th-year option; he was a 2nd round pick and is a UFA this spring

- Revisionist history on Dareus; he may never have been an all-time high-effort guy, but his effect on the run D was huge. Moreover, @BADOLBILZ's point is that they were quick to jettison Dareus just so that they could spend $50M in FA on his replacement, who isn't as good a player.

- Goodwin had just begun to focus solely on football in 2016, and the change in both health and on-field productivity was evident then.  I don't often beat them "Badol is usually right" drum (since it's pretty well established that he's often on-target), but he was the first guy to say that Goodwin would be a true NFL WR threat if/when he gave up track and focused on football and taking care of his body.

- I have seen nothing that would indicate that Woods wouldn't have re-signed here; not even sure he got an offer from Buffalo

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But he had no right to be a backup. That was the point from day 1.

 

They picked him. Alright a mistake immediately for me but they took a shot on a late round QB fair enough.

 

Despite a pre-season where he barely completed 50% of his passes they benched a serviceable starting Quarterback in the middle of a playoff race to start Peterman. Huge mistake, massively backfired. It happens, McDermott turned it around got the team back on track and made the playoffs.

 

I can kind of give them a pass on those two errors. Everything that has happened since is totally indefensible. 

Gunner, Get over your Peterman trauma. It is haunting you because you yourself are fixating on it. He's a backup who is now replaced by a pedestrian grizzly veteran. The problem/issue that you deliberately miss is that the real mistake was bringing in McCarron instead of another mediocre backup. What you fail to note is that Peterman, the qb that you loathe, beat out McCarron when they were competing. 

 

My advice to you is to change your focus (debilitating fixation) to the OL and receiving corps. Those are bigger issues. 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

 

A few items of note:

- Darby doesn't have a 5th-year option; he was a 2nd round pick and is a UFA this spring

- Revisionist history on Dareus; he may never have been an all-time high-effort guy, but his effect on the run D was huge. Moreover, @BADOLBILZ's point is that they were quick to jettison Dareus just so that they could spend $50M in FA on his replacement, who isn't as good a player.

- Goodwin had just begun to focus solely on football in 2016, and the change in both health and on-field productivity was evident then.  I don't often beat them "Badol is usually right" drum (since it's pretty well established that he's often on-target), but he was the first guy to say that Goodwin would be a true NFL WR threat if/when he gave up track and focused on football and taking care of his body.

- I have seen nothing that would indicate that Woods wouldn't have re-signed here; not even sure he got an offer from Buffalo

On Darby I bet the Eagles pass on him.  On Dareus Star is giving us more than Dareus did.  And I'm sorry but Goodwin was not productive here.

[GG]

5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

A few items of note:

- Darby doesn't have a 5th-year option; he was a 2nd round pick and is a UFA this spring

- Revisionist history on Dareus; he may never have been an all-time high-effort guy, but his effect on the run D was huge. Moreover, @BADOLBILZ's point is that they were quick to jettison Dareus just so that they could spend $50M in FA on his replacement, who isn't as good a player.

- Goodwin had just begun to focus solely on football in 2016, and the change in both health and on-field productivity was evident then.  I don't often beat them "Badol is usually right" drum (since it's pretty well established that he's often on-target), but he was the first guy to say that Goodwin would be a true NFL WR threat if/when he gave up track and focused on football and taking care of his body.

- I have seen nothing that would indicate that Woods wouldn't have re-signed here; not even sure he got an offer from Buffalo

 

Dareus was a net negative for the run game, but probably a net positive for the "process"  For all the crap that McDermott gets for hap clappy talk, he did get the team to buy in and turn a winning record with a subpar cast.

 

I don't know if they offered Goodwin a contract, but they definitely made a strong push to bring Woods back.  In the end, they totally underestimated his market value.

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

A few items of note:

- Darby doesn't have a 5th-year option; he was a 2nd round pick and is a UFA this spring

- Revisionist history on Dareus; he may never have been an all-time high-effort guy, but his effect on the run D was huge. Moreover, @BADOLBILZ's point is that they were quick to jettison Dareus just so that they could spend $50M in FA on his replacement, who isn't as good a player.

- Goodwin had just begun to focus solely on football in 2016, and the change in both health and on-field productivity was evident then.  I don't often beat them "Badol is usually right" drum (since it's pretty well established that he's often on-target), but he was the first guy to say that Goodwin would be a true NFL WR threat if/when he gave up track and focused on football and taking care of his body.

- I have seen nothing that would indicate that Woods wouldn't have re-signed here; not even sure he got an offer from Buffalo

With respect to the Dareus situation let's put it in perspective. The new HC comes in and wants to change the culture where work ethic and dedication to one's profession are instilled. I'm not talking about only having choir boys on the roster; I'm talking about players who are serious about their jobs, and that certainly includes offseason preparation. 

 

Dareus was out of shape and had a history of laziness. That is well known. He probably did more sleeping in the film room than he did in his bed. So getting rid of him for what the market would offer (fifth/six) picks is what he took. If a coach is going to talk the talk then I'm not complaining when he walks the walk with actually taking action to accomplish what he is espousing. 

 

Is Dareus more talented than Star? Absolutely. But being more talented doesn't mean that your talent is actualized on the field. Star is fulfilling his role and acting professionally. Dareus wasn't steadily fulfilling his role and wasn't acting professionally, both on and off the field. In summary, not only do I have not have a problem with what transpired I applaud it. Check the stats.Our defense is doing fine without the man/child who plays in Jacksnonville. 

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Dareus was a net negative for the run game, but probably a net positive for the "process"  For all the crap that McDermott gets for hap clappy talk, he did get the team to buy in and turn a winning record with a subpar cast.

 

I don't know if they offered Goodwin a contract, but they definitely made a strong push to bring Woods back.  In the end, they totally underestimated his market value.

 

If Dareus were the only example of getting rid of a 1st rounder and creating a hole, then I think the buy-in would be greater...the problem is that he's part of a huge trend in lowering the overall talent on the team without replacing it adequately (or, in the very least, efficiently).

 

As to Woods, if they truly underestimated his market value then they're grotesquely unfit to run the football operations.  Woods' value was squarely between that of deals signed by Marvin Jones and Mo Sanu in the previous offseason, which put him right at $7M AAV (precisely what he signed for)...now, you may still be right that they undervalued him, but what does that say?

 

Now I'm not wholly down on McDermott and Beane, but I do think that they've significantly lowered the talent base and don't seem to have a great plan for what to do on the offensive side of the ball...and that's very concerning.

Just now, JohnC said:

With respect to the Dareus situation let's put it in perspective. The new HC comes in and wants to change the culture where work ethic and dedication to one's profession are instilled. I'm not talking about only having choir boys on the roster; I'm talking about players who are serious about their jobs, and that certainly includes offseason preparation. 

 

Dareus was out of shape and had a history of laziness. That is well known. He probably did more sleeping in the film room than he did in his bed. So getting rid of him for what the market would offer (fifth/six) picks is what he took. If a coach is going to talk the talk then I'm not complaining when he walks the walk with actually taking action to accomplish what he is espousing. 

 

Is Dareus more talented than Star? Absolutely. But being more talented doesn't mean that your talent is actualized on the field. Star is fulfilling his role and acting professionally. Dareus wasn't steadily fulfilling his role and wasn't acting professionally, both on and off the field. In summary, not only do I have not have a problem with what transpired I applaud it. Check the stats.Our defense is doing fine without the man/child who plays in Jacksnonville. 

 

You're not wrong...see my response to @GG above

[JohnC]

44 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Those issues are more important for next season. 

 

There is the proper focus on Peterman this year, because the important people in the Bills front office thought it was prudent to go into the season with him as a starter, and then a primary backup.   

In the grand scheme of things the more important issue is the rookie qb and not the backup. 

 

As I have said on numerous occasions the mistake this regime made was bringing in McCarron who was outplayed by Peterman when they were competing for rankings. They should brought in another qb such as Moore from Miami. 

[Bill from NYC]

9 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

John, I don’t think you’re right about the soundness of the McBeane Khmer Rouge approach to the roster - but even if you are, I’m quite certain the owners didn’t sign up for it.  You make it sound like the team is acting in concert pursuant to a settled script and that’s really where I think you go off the rails.  There is simply NO WAY that the Pegulas thought they were stomaching a 4-5 year gut reno.  McDermott acts like he’s at the helm of some cushy college program where he’s been assured enough time to wait for his first recruiting class to blossom into seniors and IMHO he is SORELY mistaken about that.

 

Again, I have been saying this since August - many of us have - these are reactive owners who hate being embarrassed and are patient until all of a sudden they aren’t and I predict that the patience will run out sometime over the next two weeks when Anderson’s custard melts all over the field.  It’s going to be awful football to watch, the fans are going to lose it and the owners are going to take notice and react.  How what will all manifest itself vis-a-vis Pol Pot McBean remains to be seen but we will see cracks in the OBD facade, I can almost guarantee it.

Tough to argue with this.

[GG]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

 

If Dareus were the only example of getting rid of a 1st rounder and creating a hole, then I think the buy-in would be greater...the problem is that he's part of a huge trend in lowering the overall talent on the team without replacing it adequately (or, in the very least, efficiently).

 

As to Woods, if they truly underestimated his market value then they're grotesquely unfit to run the football operations.  Woods' value was squarely between that of deals signed by Marvin Jones and Mo Sanu in the previous offseason, which put him right at $7M AAV (precisely what he signed for)...now, you may still be right that they undervalued him, but what does that say?

 

Now I'm not wholly down on McDermott and Beane, but I do think that they've significantly lowered the talent base and don't seem to have a great plan for what to do on the offensive side of the ball...and that's very concerning.

 

As the saying goes, the Bills picked the wrong time to quit sniffing glue.   

 

A lot of the issues are due to the overlap of a new coach and a lame duck GM.  We have no idea in how Beane would have approached FA and the draft if he were in the seat in January 2017.

 

But overall, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until at least next year to fix the offense.   They clearly have been able to plug the self made defensive holes much more efficiently than they have on offense.  Again, none of the offensive woes would matter if they got competent QB play.

[GG]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Beat out McCarron.... according to the coach INFATUATED with Peterman. 

 

 

 

It wasn't just to the coach but anyone with a pair of eyes.  No matter how bad Peterman is, he was far better than McCarron in preseason games.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Beat out McCarron.... according to the coach INFATUATED with Peterman. 

 

 

When you compete you compete. The winner prevails. That's life in the NFL. 

[Bill from NYC]

10 hours ago, JohnC said:

The mistake that was made was getting McCarron.  So when he didn't start he wanted out, and he was accommodated. The mistake that this regime made was getting McCarron instead of getting another vet placeholder. 

 

 

Seriously? Accomodated? The Buffalo Bills are a football team, not a Hampton Inn. These players sign a contract to work here. This was a continuation of the Marv Levy stupidity. Players are not hotel guests. They are paid to do a job. Releasing McCarron or for that matter thinking that Peterman was even a fraction of him in terms of talent were idiotic moves that will cause harm to the franchise.

 

I for one am not concerned when players "want out," nor should our leadership be.

[HappyDays]

10 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

There is simply NO WAY that the Pegulas thought they were stomaching a 4-5 year gut reno

 

It isn't a 5 year rebuild. It's 3 years. Last year they shed players that didn't fit what they were trying to do. That left them with $50 million in dead cap this year, and they went all out to get the franchise QB. Traditionally this would be year one of the rebuild but this regime had a delayed start. Next year they have tons of cap space and a full draft to rebuild the offense. Next year we should be much more competitive and by 2020 we should be serious contenders. That is obviously the plan and Pegula signed on to it. He isn't stupid. They didn't sneak $50 million in dead cap under his nose. There is no way he is already thinking about firing people because we aren't competitive when nearly 1/3 of the cap space is being used on players that aren't on the team.

 

The one mistake this regime has made is the receiving corps. They undervalued Woods, Zay Jones was not a good 2nd round pick, and Benjamin has been extremely underwhelming. I can't fault them for the offensive line because they lost 2 starters to sudden retirement. Everything else they've done is fine. I couldn't care less about the backup QB. Josh Allen is the only thing that matters to their future now. If he develops, they will have no problem building an offense around him next year and they will be here a long time. If he doesn't, they will be on the hot seat in 2020. It's as simple as that.

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Seriously? Accomodated? The Buffalo Bills are a football team, not a Hampton Inn. These players sign a contract to work here. This was a continuation of the Marv Levy stupidity. Players are not hotel guests. They are paid to do a job. Releasing McCarron or for that matter thinking that Peterman was even a fraction of him in terms of talent were idiotic moves that will cause harm to the franchise.

 

I for one am not concerned when players "want out," nor should our leadership be.

If he doesn't want to be here then so be it. Get his asss out. He certainly wasn't a special talent. What makes this qb issue more complicated than issues at other positions is that he wasn't interested in being a mentor to the young qb. That was probably the most important factor for dealing him. What wasn't needed was a frosty relationship among the qbs, especially as it related to Allen. 

 

You can scoff at Peterman all you want but he beat out McCarron while each was competing at camp. As I said on other numerous posting the mistake was bringing in McCarron instead of another pedestrian veteran. According to Peter King in a WGR interview McCarron made it clear that he wasn't interested in being a backup and a mentor to anyone. There was the mistake. Bringing him in. As bad as you think Peterman is what does it say about McCarron when he can't outshine the qb that is universally loathed by Bills' fans?

[GG]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

And yet Peterman showed when the real bullets were flying he was absolutely awful.

 

McCarron was injured and came back to play a meaningless 4th preseason game in which yes, he struggled. But he has the experience when the games actually count where he didn't look anywhere near as incompetent as Peterman had/has. 

 

Absolute awful judgement.

 

I guess you're forgetting how McCarron got hurt in the first place

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I guess you're forgetting how McCarron got hurt in the first place

I agree with ScottLaw here. It's unwise to judge a QB playing against vanilla preseason defenses. Didn't we learn this lesson with Rob Johnson? McCarron has actually been OK in real NFL games (6 TDs to 2 INTs and a 66.4 completion rate in 4 games in 2015). 

[GG]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Was it stupid to go into the season with Nate Peterman and Josh Allen as your QBs? 

 

Don't change the subject.

 

Your point was that the only reason that Bills kept Peterman over McCarron was McD's infatuation with Peterman.   That wasn't the only reason.  Peterman actually looked better than McCarron in camp

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I agree with ScottLaw here. It's unwise to judge a QB playing against vanilla preseason defenses. Didn't we learn this lesson with Rob Johnson? McCarron has actually been OK in real NFL games (6 TDs to 2 INTs and a 66.4 completion rate in 4 games in 2015). 

 

Flip the argument.  Is it ok for an NFL vet to look mediocre against half speed defenses?

[Bill from NYC]

18 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If he doesn't want to be here then so be it. Get his asss out. He certainly wasn't a special talent. What makes this qb issue more complicated than issues at other positions is that he wasn't interested in being a mentor to the young qb. That was probably the most important factor for dealing him. What wasn't needed was a frosty relationship among the qbs, especially as it related to Allen. 

 

You can scoff at Peterman all you want but he beat out McCarron while each was competing at camp. As I said on other numerous posting the mistake was bringing in McCarron instead of another pedestrian veteran. According to Peter King in a WGR interview McCarron made it clear that he wasn't interested in being a backup and a mentor to anyone. There was the mistake. Bringing him in. As bad as you think Peterman is what does it say about McCarron when he can't outshine the qb that is universally loathed by Bills' fans?

I am not a huge fan of McCarron but he is 100x better than Peterman will ever be. You say he wasn't interested in being a mentor. OK, was Peterman a mentor? Please. Nate Clements wanted out. Levy made a "promise" to let him go and he did just that. I am tired of accommodating players.  This is part of what is wrong with the franchise.

[Gugny]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Was it stupid to go into the season with Nate Peterman and Josh Allen as your QBs? 

 

It was stupid to start the preseason with McCarron, Peterman and Allen as their QBs.

 

The position has been poorly handled.  It's really as easy as that. 

[Bill from NYC]

26 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

And yet Peterman showed when the real bullets were flying he was absolutely awful.

 

McCarron was injured and came back to play a meaningless 4th preseason game in which yes, he struggled. But he has the experience when the games actually count where he didn't look anywhere near as incompetent as Peterman had/has. 

 

Absolute awful judgement.

Yes, and maybe there was a clue to be had about Peterman after the worst performance in the history of NFL Football.

 

Look, Peterman seems like a good kid and maybe McCarron is more self centered than Nate. I don't freaking know but McCarron was and is a better qb in every phase of his career. How anyone can defend cutting McCarron to accommodate his desires (at the expense of the team) is beyond my comprehension.

[GG]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

 

Still not a reason to trade the only QB with experience of not completely shitting his pants in regular season games.... don you think that should've been taken into account before they sent him packing to Oakland? 

 

I think McDermotts love for Peterman is a big reason why Peterman was even still back with the team this year. He preaches everything McDermott is about. 

 

Again, that's a totally separate issue.   

Peterman outplayed McCarron.   

That is not the same thing as what they should have done to start the season. 

[K-9]

15 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I agree with ScottLaw here. It's unwise to judge a QB playing against vanilla preseason defenses. Didn't we learn this lesson with Rob Johnson? McCarron has actually been OK in real NFL games (6 TDs to 2 INTs and a 66.4 completion rate in 4 games in 2015). 

It’s not just the preseason games, though. Every practice rep is broken down and scrutinized in the classroom afterward. I suspect McCarron didn’t fare well in that regard. I’d like to hear Beane explain what he meant when he said “A.J. isn’t who we thought he was.” Was he referring to performance? Attitude? Be interesting to know.