GimmeSomeProcess Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 29 minutes ago, Buddy Hix said: I think the other line of thinking is that Allen isn’t progressing and it may be better to go back to the original plan of sitting him for the year to learn. I thinking sitting a few games could help but on field reps is the most valuable and honestly, he may be the better option when fully healthy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 11 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: PRP? Might as well just inject vaporized $100 bills into the wounded area. Total voodoo. I don't agree with many insurance coverage exclusions, but this one is legit. No solid studies back up the use of this stuff and no one knows exactly how it might work, even if it did. It appeals to rich athletes without obvious surgically correctable problems. Often they have to leave the country to get this therapy.. The 100% true part of this is the insurance company exclusion and that there are to date no solid studies backing up its use for healing ligaments or cartilage and that no one knows exactly how it works. If you've had personal dealings with it, I wouldn't want to buck your clinical experience either. On the other hand, this is kind of my professional thing (not PRP per se, pharmaceutical use of biologics) It isn't total voodoo, and they shouldn't have to leave the country for just for PRP. It's known that PRP is enriched for growth factors and it has some good results in vivo animal studies. CBER (Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research) has approved a bunch of PRP preparations under 510(k) for bone graft applications. I caught a seminar about 10 yrs back and the preparation being presented seemed pretty legit for the presented use (intractable disjunctions or reconstructions if I recall correctly). The injections for healing other tissues are then allowed "off label" (but insurance rightly won't cover off label uses). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Oh Gawd that play. Exhibit 101 of why Allen is Just Not Ready to play QB - if he ever does get there. Right before he takes off, he has Clay wide open for an easy pitch and catch of 10 yds. Clay is on the LOS with no one within 10 yds at the time he looks right at Allen, and his chances of running for the 1st are better than Allen's who is 8 yds back at that point, even if Allen fancies himself as a runner more than Clay. If Allen didn't pull the trigger because he doesn't have confidence in himself he can make that throw while on the run, he simply can't play QB in the NFL - and I'm not one of the folks who is all "insta-bust" about him. I doubt that's the case; it's either that he (a) didn't have confidence in his receiver, (b) didn't see his receiver, or (c) thought he could make an even better play on his own. Probably a combination of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I doubt that's the case; it's either that he (a) didn't have confidence in his receiver, (b) didn't see his receiver, or (c) thought he could make an even better play on his own. Probably a combination of the above. Oh, Lordy. Well, if Allen doesn't have confidence that Clay can make a catch like that, that's a big problem. He also appears to be looking right at him. In Allen's defense, he is under pressure and may think the DB would nail him before he could make the throw or lack confidence that he can make the throw whilst running full tilt. Our blocking scheme/pass game just do not seem well synched to cope with overload blitzes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelchlsm Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Whats the most bills-like scenario that can happen? Allen comes back for a meaningless game in December and reinjures his elbow requiring surgery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 32 minutes ago, kelchlsm said: Whats the most bills-like scenario that can happen? Nate starts against the Colts and somehow, inexplicably, does relatively well (145 yards, one TD, only one INT) and the Bills win a squeeker. Nate signs to a big multi-year extension, then immediately reverts to the Nate we all know on MNF against the pats with a spectacular 5 interception total faceplant performance and we all seek psychiatric help for catastrophic PTSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 50 minutes ago, kelchlsm said: Whats the most bills-like scenario that can happen? somehow they junk out a win or two over the next 6 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 What I want to know is WTF hasn't Mercilus been fined for deliberate attempt to injure? That POS deliberately lowered his helmet into Josh's arm, and it was LONG AFTER the ball was gone. But as another poster pointed out in the GDT, Troy Vincent is a proponent of injuring QB's, so I guess expecting discipline was too much to ask for. The NFL is a ***** joke, since the only QB's they give a ***** about protecting are Marcia and A A Ron. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COTC Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, kelchlsm said: Whats the most bills-like scenario that can happen? Allen comes back for a meaningless game in December and reinjures his elbow requiring surgery? Only to be out the 2019 season, our front office will refuse to draft another QB or address in FA and this vicious cycle repeats itself. Spinning the wheels from irresponsible leaders. Edited October 17, 2018 by COTC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said: What I want to know is WTF hasn't Mercilus been fined for deliberate attempt to injure? That POS deliberately lowered his helmet into Josh's arm, and it was LONG AFTER the ball was gone. But as another poster pointed out in the GDT, Troy Vincent is a proponent of injuring QB's, so I guess expecting discipline was too much to ask for. The NFL is a ***** joke, since the only QB's they give a ***** about protecting are Marcia and A A Ron. nothing remotely wrong with Mericlus's contact there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Hix Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: From everything they’ve said, i think they believe he will learn on the field through reps. That’s hopeful, I think that is the best way too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Officially official statement... reported timetable of at least 2-3 games not confirmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Officially official statement... reported timetable of at least 2-3 games not confirmed How on earth does McDermott stand up there with a straight face and talk about how it will be good for Allen to see how a veteran QB prepares and go through the week with him as if this is some great improvement, when it was something they could have arranged from the start and never did? And then to talk about Peterman having the same opportunity and it being good for him too, when everyone in the NFL must be able to see that Peterman just can't play? 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk232 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: How on earth does McDermott stand up there with a straight face and talk about how it will be good for Allen to see how a veteran QB prepares and go through the week with him as if this is some great improvement, when it was something they could have arranged from the start and never did? And then to talk about Peterman having the same opportunity and it being good for him too, when everyone in the NFL must be able to see that Peterman just can't play? I just posted something similar in another thread - but to me it seems that if the team's commitment was to rebuilding for the future beyond this season first and foremost, why didn't they just bench Allen earlier or whenever they wanted? Under the same logic, you can start him or play him whenever you felt like it. Doesn't have to be all or nothing. Have him run a few scripted plays per game to get experience with his reads at times, and/or have him play the full game and see how he strings a drive together at times. Either way he's developing. If it's for the purpose of protecting your future investment and giving him the best environment to learn and develop just own the decision and go with it. The media can create circuses out of what we've seen so far, and in watching these pressers I feel like McD and Beane have been backpeddling trying to save face with lack of confidence in their decisions. There's no need - just make your decisions and stick with them. Don't think the playoffs were ever a realistic expectation this year, so stop feeding into people pretending we should have been a 9/10+ win team and commit to your process. Edited October 17, 2018 by ctk232 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: How on earth does McDermott stand up there with a straight face and talk about how it will be good for Allen to see how a veteran QB prepares and go through the week with him as if this is some great improvement, when it was something they could have arranged from the start and never did? And then to talk about Peterman having the same opportunity and it being good for him too, when everyone in the NFL must be able to see that Peterman just can't play? he is up the creek and hoping to keep getting them checks for a few more years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, thebandit27 said: I doubt that's the case; it's either that he (a) didn't have confidence in his receiver, (b) didn't see his receiver, or (c) thought he could make an even better play on his own. Probably a combination of the above. He routinely looks to run instead of passing. I’m fairly certain on many 3rd downs he’s decided to run before the ball is snapped. This has nothing to do with him not trusting that his WR could make a play and much to do with his early success running the ball and hence he has way more cinfidence in his feet than he does his reads. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he sees the trouble Peterman has had with turnovers and is afraid to make mistakes with the ball. People are quick to throw out the “bust” or “he’s terrible” label if a QB turns the ball over but if a QB just leads an inept offense that can’t score or get first downs he’ll be treated to the “he’s young” reasoning and get two full years. Safest way to avoid turnovers is to not pull the trigger on 3rd and long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 so just before or just after the BYE in week 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 21 minutes ago, MDH said: He routinely looks to run instead of passing. I’m fairly certain on many 3rd downs he’s decided to run before the ball is snapped. This has nothing to do with him not trusting that his WR could make a play and much to do with his early success running the ball and hence he has way more cinfidence in his feet than he does his reads. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he sees the trouble Peterman has had with turnovers and is afraid to make mistakes with the ball. People are quick to throw out the “bust” or “he’s terrible” label if a QB turns the ball over but if a QB just leads an inept offense that can’t score or get first downs he’ll be treated to the “he’s young” reasoning and get two full years. Safest way to avoid turnovers is to not pull the trigger on 3rd and long. This. Pure speculation, but he appears VERY afraid to make a mistake. With young QB's, I can live with turnovers if a guy is trying to make a play. What I can't accept and what sets off alarm bells is a guy who's afraid. Everyone talks about Peyton Manning as a rookie, this guy as a rookie, that guy as a rookie. The biggest knock on them was that they were turning the ball over. They were generally showing flashes and moving the football. The sheer futility is one, gigantic red flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Oh Gawd that play. Exhibit 101 of why Allen is Just Not Ready to play QB - if he ever does get there. Right before he takes off, he has Clay wide open for an easy pitch and catch of 10 yds. Clay is on the LOS with no one within 10 yds at the time he looks right at Allen, and his chances of running for the 1st are better than Allen's who is 8 yds back at that point, even if Allen fancies himself as a runner more than Clay. If Allen didn't pull the trigger because he doesn't have confidence in himself he can make that throw while on the run, he simply can't play QB in the NFL - and I'm not one of the folks who is all "insta-bust" about him. I deleted the game (because of course!). Anyone have a clip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Can you say more on this or provide a link or two? I'm one of those who have been critiquing him (and taking a bit of heat for it). I know no evil of him though, just the feeling that it's unethical to be trading on his status as an MD and a former NFL team doctor to diagnose and pronounce courses of treatment from video Thanks. There is an article about him from the San Diego Tribune, from a writer that obviously hates him, that gives a laundry list of facts and accusations about the guy. It's a long list, and after reading it I too have a lot of trouble with a doctor like that, as a team physician. It's slanted, of course, but this Chao guy has a lot of sketchy occurrences in his past. That said, all I have to go on is what the guy says as a TV doctor, watching video of injuries and providing quick diagnoses of what the injury is like. I have seen probably ten of them in the last two years and he was very accurate for the most part. And he comes out and says I only saw it on TV but this is what it looks like. So I think he provides a good perspective for fans, regardless of his sketchy past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 20 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: This. Pure speculation, but he appears VERY afraid to make a mistake. I agree with this. Could be a combination of many things, especially with coaches continuously preaching being smart with the ball, and as a rookie not trying to make rookie mistakes which cost the team. I think coaching reinforcement that would encourage him to let the ball rip and it's okay if your trying to make a play. He plays too overly cautious and doesn't trust his line, WRs, or obviously himself. This needs to be coached out of him, by allowing for the mistakes to happen. This is the only way he will learn and how he will gain confidence as he will see he can make those throws. I truly believe Allen's struggles are more directly related to coaching than anything else and hopefully Anderson will be the right mentor and coach to him that he is not getting from the OC and QB coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 24 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: There is an article about him from the San Diego Tribune, from a writer that obviously hates him, that gives a laundry list of facts and accusations about the guy. It's a long list, and after reading it I too have a lot of trouble with a doctor like that, as a team physician. It's slanted, of course, but this Chao guy has a lot of sketchy occurrences in his past. That said, all I have to go on is what the guy says as a TV doctor, watching video of injuries and providing quick diagnoses of what the injury is like. I have seen probably ten of them in the last two years and he was very accurate for the most part. And he comes out and says I only saw it on TV but this is what it looks like. So I think he provides a good perspective for fans, regardless of his sketchy past. I've seen him saying "I only saw it on TV but this is what it looks like" and I'm OK with that. It's when he's started with "this is what it is" type stuff I have a problem with it. Wow, Chao as Chargers team doc sounds like the Poster Child for why the right to seek second opinions/independent treatment was critical to the last CBAhttps://deadspin.com/5835403/the-medical-board-says-david-chao-is-a-drunk-former-patients-say-hes-a-quack-why-is-he-an-nfl-team-doctor 21 minutes ago, Wyo_Bills Fan said: I agree with this. Could be a combination of many things, especially with coaches continuously preaching being smart with the ball, and as a rookie not trying to make rookie mistakes which cost the team. I think coaching reinforcement that would encourage him to let the ball rip and it's okay if your trying to make a play. He plays too overly cautious and doesn't trust his line, WRs, or obviously himself. This needs to be coached out of him, by allowing for the mistakes to happen. This is the only way he will learn and how he will gain confidence as he will see he can make those throws. I truly believe Allen's struggles are more directly related to coaching than anything else and hopefully Anderson will be the right mentor and coach to him that he is not getting from the OC and QB coach. I'm trying to think which announcer it was - I think Romo! at the Vikes game - who said that a certain number of INTs are a learning experience for a young QB and that a coach should say "OK, I want you to throw two INTs this game" not meaning it quite literally, but giving the young QB permission to make mistakes that are part of the learning process. 36 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: I deleted the game (because of course!). Anyone have a clip? I put two up. Not .gifs 'cuz I don't know how to make short video .gifs from Gamepass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: Lol, this day and age we get a still presumably from a video that looks shot on a Motorola from 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: My concern is if he needs a brace like that, how come he walked off the field on Sunday and went home bare-armed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: My concern is if he needs a brace like that, how come he walked off the field on Sunday and went home bare-armed? That is why I was hoping it wasn't a bad injury. For a long time he didn't have anything on his arm. Later in the game, he had a bandage that looked like maybe some ice in it. Not sure how he left the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuSeYiN_NYC Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 You don't have to be a football guru to see that Allen plays scared. Against the Vikings, if you have the game saved for some reason, go back and just look at his face. He looked calm , unphased and dare I say, confident. Every other game besides the Vikings game, he looks like a deer in the forest eating leaves and looking out for predators. I'm not even a hunter and I can tell what that looks like. Just imagine defenders who are looking to sack him and how they must be salivating at that scared look of a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 6 hours ago, thebandit27 said: I've never had PRP, but I can say from personal experience that ARPwave therapy is completely legit Excruciating to endure, but unmatched in pain relief IMO Yes that's completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: How on earth does McDermott stand up there with a straight face and talk about how it will be good for Allen to see how a veteran QB prepares and go through the week with him as if this is some great improvement, when it was something they could have arranged from the start and never did? And then to talk about Peterman having the same opportunity and it being good for him too, when everyone in the NFL must be able to see that Peterman just can't play? I think we all know Peterman is done here when Allen gets healthy or they sign another QB, I don't have a problem with McDermott not trashing him in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 “I’m not a rocket scientist but ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The 100% true part of this is the insurance company exclusion and that there are to date no solid studies backing up its use for healing ligaments or cartilage and that no one knows exactly how it works. If you've had personal dealings with it, I wouldn't want to buck your clinical experience either. On the other hand, this is kind of my professional thing (not PRP per se, pharmaceutical use of biologics) It isn't total voodoo, and they shouldn't have to leave the country for just for PRP. It's known that PRP is enriched for growth factors and it has some good results in vivo animal studies. CBER (Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research) has approved a bunch of PRP preparations under 510(k) for bone graft applications. I caught a seminar about 10 yrs back and the preparation being presented seemed pretty legit for the presented use (intractable disjunctions or reconstructions if I recall correctly). The injections for healing other tissues are then allowed "off label" (but insurance rightly won't cover off label uses). Biologicals are legit, mainstream treatments for a wide variety of diseases (usually autoimmune). PRP is the intuitively bogus process of taking your won blood, spinning out the plasma (plus "platelets") and reinjecting your own plasma. Sad, but true. Chao is a personal and professional disaster for YEARS. He is all that is wrong with the medical profession. He's a drunk, with multiple DWI, he is a pill pusher and taker. And he's a butcher in the OR. http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/columnists/kevin-acee/sd-sp-chao-0106-story.html https://deadspin.com/5835403/the-medical-board-says-david-chao-is-a-drunk-former-patients-say-hes-a-quack-why-is-he-an-nfl-team-doctor https://deadspin.com/5835403/the-medical-board-says-david-chao-is-a-drunk-former-patients-say-hes-a-quack-why-is-he-an-nfl-team-doctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, Mr. WEO said: Biologicals are legit, mainstream treatments for a wide variety of diseases (usually autoimmune). PRP is the intuitively bogus process of taking your won blood, spinning out the plasma (plus "platelets") and reinjecting your own plasma. Sad, but true. Chao is a personal and professional disaster for YEARS. He is all that is wrong with the medical profession. He's a drunk, with multiple DWI, he is a pill pusher and taker. And he's a butcher in the OR. http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/columnists/kevin-acee/sd-sp-chao-0106-story.html https://deadspin.com/5835403/the-medical-board-says-david-chao-is-a-drunk-former-patients-say-hes-a-quack-why-is-he-an-nfl-team-doctor https://deadspin.com/5835403/the-medical-board-says-david-chao-is-a-drunk-former-patients-say-hes-a-quack-why-is-he-an-nfl-team-doctor I have had that done a few times when I donated blood. They can double dip each visit I'm curious ..... Who else here besides Mr. WEO and @Doc actually have a degree in medicine?? I've known these two dating back to the D&C Forums and I know they are not BS'ing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Wyo_Bills Fan said: I agree with this. Could be a combination of many things, especially with coaches continuously preaching being smart with the ball, and as a rookie not trying to make rookie mistakes which cost the team. I think coaching reinforcement that would encourage him to let the ball rip and it's okay if your trying to make a play. He plays too overly cautious and doesn't trust his line, WRs, or obviously himself. This needs to be coached out of him, by allowing for the mistakes to happen. This is the only way he will learn and how he will gain confidence as he will see he can make those throws. I truly believe Allen's struggles are more directly related to coaching than anything else and hopefully Anderson will be the right mentor and coach to him that he is not getting from the OC and QB coach. I don't believe in Allen, but I have to agree with this. McDermott is obviously conservative by nature, and it would appear JA's number 1 goal is not to make mistakes. That mentality is the reason Tyrod Taylor is Tyrod Taylor. (And I like Tyrod) If this season was really about Josh Allen, they should have told him from day one that the only mistake is the play you don't try to make. There's no way to know for sure what they're telling him, but the gameplan and Allen's play suggest they haven't made it clear that mistakes are part of progress. I'd rather see a young QB throw for 2 TD's/4 INT's 260 yards than a TD/no picks and a buck 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, dave mcbride said: I deleted the game (because of course!). Anyone have a clip? Here you go, Sue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, GG said: Here you go, Sue. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventeen Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: My concern is if he needs a brace like that, how come he walked off the field on Sunday and went home bare-armed? Docs probably didn't put it on until the swelling went down a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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