3rdnlng Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Joe Biden became a "professor" at Penn in 2017 and never taught a class even though he was paid over $900,000 in the next two years. I think the school wanted him for their Audio/Visual/Record Player Department. https://www.inquirer.com/news/joe-biden-penn-salary-lectures-20190712.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Draft Cuomo? Democrats Have Second Thoughts About Biden pjmedia.com › vodkapundit › draft-cuomo-democrats-wondering-if-it... Draft Cuomo: Democrats Wondering If It's Time to Dump Biden and Sanders ... New York Governor Andrew Cuomo Just remember: Andrew Cuomo says America 'was never that great,' drawing gasps ... www.washingtonpost.com › politics › 2018/08/15 › andrew-cuomo-ame... Aug 15, 2018 - Andrew Cuomo says America 'was never that great,' drawing gasps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 hour ago, B-Man said: Draft Cuomo? Democrats Have Second Thoughts About Biden pjmedia.com › vodkapundit › draft-cuomo-democrats-wondering-if-it... Draft Cuomo: Democrats Wondering If It's Time to Dump Biden and Sanders ... New York Governor Andrew Cuomo Just remember: Andrew Cuomo says America 'was never that great,' drawing gasps ... www.washingtonpost.com › politics › 2018/08/15 › andrew-cuomo-ame... Aug 15, 2018 - Andrew Cuomo says America 'was never that great,' drawing gasps Reeeeaaaaally hoping we never see a President Cuomo. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Andrew Cuomo Criticizes Federal Assistance to New York but Didn't Count on President Trump Having Done His Homework 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 JOE BIDEN REPLACED BY ANDREW CUOMO? NOT SO FAR-FETCHED. Although this could be a hurdle for Cuomo: Cuomo’s New York branded hand-sanitizer isn’t being made by inmates after al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1915 Buffalo Bill Cody fan Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 4 hours ago, B-Man said: Back to the democrat 2020 thread............... THE SOFT BIGOTRY OF LOW EXPECTATIONS: Stay Alive, Joe Biden. “Democrats need little from the front-runner beyond his corporeal presence.” Unhinged: In all likelihood, the desire to oust Trump will be piercing in the coming days, as death and chaos escalate. The president has been reckless, duplicitous, and morally hazardous in his leadership during a pandemic that is likely to be the defining event of a generation—forget about a campaign cycle. But the many union members looking at their closed casinos and the mothers in lockdown with their children and the students forced off their campuses and the older Americans living in complete isolation may find it impossible to imagine that their earlier fears about another four years of Trump have abated, or that the ferocity of their desire to get him out of office has lessened. Indeed, the emotion of this moment may displace any that has come before it. Biden’s team appears to understand this, and to believe that what matters most now is keeping their candidate alive in the American imagination as an alternative to Trump. His appearances these days have an almost parallel-universe quality to them: Biden’s audience-less remarks from his home in Delaware have the suggestion of an Oval Office address, and their content seems intended to offer a glimpse into the twilight zone where someone else, someone more empathetic and capable, is president. It’s as if Biden is telegraphing to his public: You have already imagined that I can beat Trump; now imagine what it will be like when I am president. The Atlantic published this column from CBS News’ Alex Wagner, and in almost 20 years of blogging I’ve never read so many words bearing so little relation to reality, all to promote a Weekend at Bernie’s-style Democratic White House. Bernie Sanders Threatens to Hold Up Coronavirus Stimulus Bill Over GOP ‘Anti-Worker Objections.’ Remember in November that so many leading Democrats put the parochial interests of some of their smallest constituencies ahead of the interest of the nation. @B-Man when an imbecile xian like you calls intelligent people like me "stupid" I wonder when next you will eat more kernels of corn you see on the side of feces.... that is the word for turd in your bible of lies against Atheists and Green scientists ditto @3rdnlng attacking Democrats for wanting payrolls supported not greedy polluter war profiteering zionist bankster corporation stockholders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Bernie vs. Biden. Hit me today; I've seen it before: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Joe's "top" expert falls on his face. No Chance Joe's team is a mess. Like their boss. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 17 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: No Chance Joe's team is a mess. Like their boss. I rather like how Joe's team is plagiarizing Trump's team's plans as their ideas - then criticizing Trump's team's plans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Just now, Koko78 said: I rather like how Joe's team is plagiarizing Trump's team's plans as their ideas - then criticizing Trump's team's plans. If satire still existed in our modern world, comedians could have a field day with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Joe's "top" expert falls on his face. No Chance Joe's team is a mess. Like their boss. So, Ronald Klain's statement in February downplaying the threat was after Trump's January 31st order closing our borders to Chinese travelers? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 1 hour ago, IDBillzFan said: This was already posted in the Clinton thread. And I've seen it several times in the last few days And it's still funny every time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) Biden's short list of VP candidates? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/who-is-nevada-senator-catherine-cortez-masto-biden-reveals-top-3-vp-picks/ar-BB11KTIa?ocid=spartanntp Edited March 27, 2020 by KRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 26 minutes ago, KRC said: Biden's short list of VP candidates? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/who-is-nevada-senator-catherine-cortez-masto-biden-reveals-top-3-vp-picks/ar-BB11KTIa?ocid=spartanntp Can she see Mexico from her house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/joe-biden-faces-sexual-assault-211641946.html No Chance Joe -- #BelieveAllWomen (Unless they make a D look bad, then they're liars -- that's how it works, right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 On 3/25/2020 at 2:09 PM, Deranged Rhino said: No Chance Joe --pushing a deeply divisive partisan pipe dream in a time of crisis, and willing to hold up relief packages to get it. Add this to the new Dem hope that all Joe needs to do to win is "not die", and you have a perfect cocktail of delusion and TDS keeping his entire campaign a float. Joe's got ZERO chance to win. He's never had a chance. I’m beginning to despise this guy and hope the only green he brings is the mold that will cover him when he rots in the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 This could simply be a nuisance complaint...Bloomberg campaign hit with FEC complaint for $18M transfer to DNC A Federal Elections Commission complaint has been filed against former New York City mayor and 2020 presidential hopeful Mike Bloomberg for an $18 million transfer from his defunct campaign to the Democratic National Committee. </snip> 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said: This could simply be a nuisance complaint...Bloomberg campaign hit with FEC complaint for $18M transfer to DNC A Federal Elections Commission complaint has been filed against former New York City mayor and 2020 presidential hopeful Mike Bloomberg for an $18 million transfer from his defunct campaign to the Democratic National Committee. </snip> I would assume so. Heard an interview with the head of the RNC about a week ago, who talked about the donation being shady, but she seemed to think it was a legal loophole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 Well, who wouldn't be thrilled to vote for a corrupt former Senator and Vice President who now is exhibiting signs of a cognitive disorder? Anyhoooo if this enthusiasm gap is real, and holds, the down ticket will be impacted. If people sit home because they do not want to crawl over broken glass to vote for Joey-B, the Democrats chances of holding the House dim, and their dreams of gaining the Senate die. Biden consolidates support, but trails badly in enthusiasm: Poll Strong enthusiasm for Biden among those who back him over Trump is just 24%. </snip> Indeed, strong enthusiasm for Biden among his supporters – at just 24% – is the lowest on record for a Democratic presidential candidate in 20 years of ABC/Post polls. More than twice as many of Trump’s supporters are highly enthusiastic about supporting him, 53%. </snip>Among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents who prefer Bernie Sanders for the nomination, 15 percent say they’d back Trump over Biden in the fall. </snip> 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 28 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Well, who wouldn't be thrilled to vote for a corrupt former Senator and Vice President who now is exhibiting signs of a cognitive disorder? Anyhoooo if this enthusiasm gap is real, and holds, the down ticket will be impacted. If people sit home because they do not want to crawl over broken glass to vote for Joey-B, the Democrats chances of holding the House dim, and their dreams of gaining the Senate die. Biden consolidates support, but trails badly in enthusiasm: Poll Strong enthusiasm for Biden among those who back him over Trump is just 24%. </snip> Indeed, strong enthusiasm for Biden among his supporters – at just 24% – is the lowest on record for a Democratic presidential candidate in 20 years of ABC/Post polls. More than twice as many of Trump’s supporters are highly enthusiastic about supporting him, 53%. </snip>Among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents who prefer Bernie Sanders for the nomination, 15 percent say they’d back Trump over Biden in the fall. </snip> Are you trying to give Gleeful Gator a heart attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 On 3/25/2020 at 8:41 PM, B-Man said: JOE BIDEN REPLACED BY ANDREW CUOMO? NOT SO FAR-FETCHED. Although this could be a hurdle for Cuomo: Cuomo’s New York branded hand-sanitizer isn’t being made by inmates after al. The winds have definitely shifted on Biden. The Democratic leaning pundits have been talking themselves out of breath the past few days as to the supposed great job Cuomo has done with NYC. Almost as if they received an email to do so.................... So does the Hill-pig (HRC) jump into action now? Biden was the perfect Trojan horse for the Hill-pig to get back in the White House. I doubt Cuomo will just let somebody name a VP prospect he does not want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 29 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Are you trying to give Gleeful Gator a heart attack? Eh, polls-schmolls... but the trending has to be concerning for him. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 No Chance Joe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 1 hour ago, RochesterRob said: The winds have definitely shifted on Biden. The Democratic leaning pundits have been talking themselves out of breath the past few days as to the supposed great job Cuomo has done with NYC. Almost as if they received an email to do so.................... So does the Hill-pig (HRC) jump into action now? Biden was the perfect Trojan horse for the Hill-pig to get back in the White House. I doubt Cuomo will just let somebody name a VP prospect he does not want. They’re realizing just what a liability early-onset Joe is. I’m 100% supporting Trump in November , but I get it with Cuomo. I rarely agree with him on policy, but I’ll admit he doesn’t talk like a man with dementia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: No Chance Joe. What say you, Tiberius? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 24 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: They’re realizing just what a liability early-onset Joe is. I’m 100% supporting Trump in November , but I get it with Cuomo. I rarely agree with him on policy, but I’ll admit he doesn’t talk like a man with dementia. Cuomo's briefing today was a little painful to watch. No need to hear about how he tried and failed to fool his kids regarding cooking Sunday dinners. He seems to often go off on tangents about his personal or past life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: No Chance Joe. That was about the percentage who turned on Hillary in '16 and 25% of Hillary supporters voted for McCain in '08. The more significant part of that article is the enthusiasm gap problem which I've been warning about since he entered the damn race. This is more of a backlash against the DNC than anything else as Trump is really unpopular among Bernie supporters. Here's an Emerson poll just last month. Edited March 29, 2020 by Doc Brown 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 The #PresidentCuomo fantasy by Byron York Original Article How nervous are some Democrats about Joe Biden's chances against President Trump this November? Nervous enough to entertain the notion that another Democrat, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, might swoop in and save the day. Cuomo, who has been governor for nearly a decade and has one of the most famous names in Democratic politics, found new prominence when his state became the epicenter of the coronavirus crisis in the United States. In February and March, some New York officials urged the public to maintain regular activities even as the virus took hold in the state, leading to the worst outbreak in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Democratic Presidential Clown Car Update for March 30, 2020. “The no campaigning campaign continues, Biden gets #MeTooed, a rare Bernie victory, and A New Challenger Appears. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeKayAdams Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 On 3/29/2020 at 2:56 PM, Doc Brown said: This is more of a backlash against the DNC than anything else as Trump is really unpopular among Bernie supporters. I personally know multiple Bernie supporters who will be voting for Trump in November. They seem to be motivated as much by dispassionate strategy as they are by anger toward the DNC. A sound Trump victory over Biden is supposed to be the second best outcome for progressives (aside from the obvious of Bernie beating both Biden and Trump) to try and take over a then weakened and humiliated Democratic Party. The pandemic fallout is also supposed to make the need for progressive policies like universal health care, student debt relief, and minimum wage hikes that much more obvious to the otherwise low-information, "orange man bad," Biden-voting Dem. I won't bother explaining their reasoning any further because I think it's foolish. The Democratic Party has proven to be corrupt to its ossified neoliberal core and beyond any internal reform. The latest example among many is the complete bipartisan support of the disgusting coronavirus bailout bill that was just passed. Even all of our so-called progressive Democrat heroes like Bernie Sanders, Liz Warren, Tulsi Gabbard, and The Squad could barely muster effective collective pushback beyond a few lame speeches. Feckless at best, complicit charlatans at worst. This was the most galling example of crony capitalism in American history with virtually no enforced oversight of the gigantic bailout money about to be siphoned off to large company CEO's over the next several years. This is worse than anything we saw in late 2008-early 2009. And then the hoi polloi were allotted $1200 checks to keep quiet for the time being. Maybe...or maybe not? My preferred strategy is to burn the Democratic Party down from the outside. Coordinate nation-wide worker strikes in the spring, organize grassroots protest movements in the summer, vote Green Party in the fall, and possibly organize a new People's Party beyond if the Green Party proves unwilling to try and actually win elections. Voting for a corrupt senile rapist war-mongering neoliberal low-key racist like Biden is only enabling the establishment Dems. Voting for Trump is only enabling a 40-year tradition of a failed Reaganomics libertarian economic philosophy that has hollowed out the middle and working classes, to the point that half of this entire country doesn't have enough savings to survive more than a month of a pandemic quarantine. Voting for the Green Party is at least a genuine vote for progressivism and can help them reach the critical 5% general election benchmark. I think I've now said all that I needed to say here in the "Democratic 2020 Presidential Primary Thread." I don't care anymore what happens to this disgusting political party. I'll give the Republicans credit in that at least they are honest and upfront about who they are and what they believe. The Democrats no longer represent the working class and probably never will again. So I don't have a strong opinion on the Andrew Cuomo emergency option that has been bandied around the internet. But my advice to the Democrats is to go ahead and make the switch at the convention if your only public policy is beating Trump, as has been made obvious since Super Tuesday. I think Cuomo could conceivably stoke the necessary voting enthusiasm in the general election to win. I've long doubted Biden's ability to seal the deal, and that latest enthusiasm poll only reinforces my doubts. Force Biden to step down in July for "health reasons" or due to the Tara Reade controversy. The optics of wasting everyone's time during the primaries to undemocratically select a candidate at the convention are...well...not good, but at this point the bar for DNC political integrity is so low that Cuomo can easily clear it in July. Anyway, my political rant is over. Stay safe, everyone, and God bless all you health professionals! We will celebrate your heroism after all of this passes. 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 3 hours ago, RealKayAdams said: My preferred strategy is to burn the Democratic Party down from the outside. Coordinate nation-wide worker strikes in the spring, organize grassroots protest movements in the summer, vote Green Party in the fall, and possibly organize a new People's Party beyond if the Green Party proves unwilling to try and actually win elections. Voting for a corrupt senile rapist war-mongering neoliberal low-key racist like Biden is only enabling the establishment Dems. Voting for Trump is only enabling a 40-year tradition of a failed Reaganomics libertarian economic philosophy that has hollowed out the middle and working classes, to the point that half of this entire country doesn't have enough savings to survive more than a month of a pandemic quarantine. Voting for the Green Party is at least a genuine vote for progressivism and can help them reach the critical 5% general election benchmark. Sure, but don't you think that "establishment dems" already pander in a huge way to so called "progressives?" i can think of 2 quick examples: 1) Perverted Uncle Joe announced that he will definitely choose a woman VP. Imo this is openly admitting that he will use sex as the determining factor rather than competence. I am all for a female president. A competent one. 2) Cuomo is emptying prisons, and was doing so before covid19. He also lit up the Empire State Building with pink lights (at taxpayer's expense) to celebrate late term abortions. He long ago declared NY a sanctuary state, to include not cooperating with ICE, free medical care, free education and even free college (while our children pay). Is this not pandering enough? Hey, I agree with you that every dem candidate in the primary was either a thief, hypocrite, psychotic, or more than one of these. My question is, how much more radical would you like them to really be? Even Sanders has 3 houses and his wife has some serious allegations. Do you view him as legit? BTW thanks for an interesting post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 I won't vote for Biden , we'll see if he picks a competent VP. The economy after this covid 19 disaster could effect Trump more this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 13 minutes ago, ALF said: I won't vote for Biden , we'll see if he picks a competent VP. The economy after this covid 19 disaster could effect Trump more this time around. That's what the liberals are praying for. Do you think they all of a sudden care about American people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 That's a lotta nos...Cuomo says ‘no’ when grilled by brother about possible presidential run 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: That's a lotta nos...Cuomo says ‘no’ when grilled by brother about possible presidential run That was actually pretty funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 6 hours ago, RealKayAdams said: I personally know multiple Bernie supporters who will be voting for Trump in November. They seem to be motivated as much by dispassionate strategy as they are by anger toward the DNC. A sound Trump victory over Biden is supposed to be the second best outcome for progressives (aside from the obvious of Bernie beating both Biden and Trump) to try and take over a then weakened and humiliated Democratic Party. The pandemic fallout is also supposed to make the need for progressive policies like universal health care, student debt relief, and minimum wage hikes that much more obvious to the otherwise low-information, "orange man bad," Biden-voting Dem. I won't bother explaining their reasoning any further because I think it's foolish. The Democratic Party has proven to be corrupt to its ossified neoliberal core and beyond any internal reform. The latest example among many is the complete bipartisan support of the disgusting coronavirus bailout bill that was just passed. Even all of our so-called progressive Democrat heroes like Bernie Sanders, Liz Warren, Tulsi Gabbard, and The Squad could barely muster effective collective pushback beyond a few lame speeches. Feckless at best, complicit charlatans at worst. This was the most galling example of crony capitalism in American history with virtually no enforced oversight of the gigantic bailout money about to be siphoned off to large company CEO's over the next several years. This is worse than anything we saw in late 2008-early 2009. And then the hoi polloi were allotted $1200 checks to keep quiet for the time being. Maybe...or maybe not? My preferred strategy is to burn the Democratic Party down from the outside. Coordinate nation-wide worker strikes in the spring, organize grassroots protest movements in the summer, vote Green Party in the fall, and possibly organize a new People's Party beyond if the Green Party proves unwilling to try and actually win elections. Voting for a corrupt senile rapist war-mongering neoliberal low-key racist like Biden is only enabling the establishment Dems. Voting for Trump is only enabling a 40-year tradition of a failed Reaganomics libertarian economic philosophy that has hollowed out the middle and working classes, to the point that half of this entire country doesn't have enough savings to survive more than a month of a pandemic quarantine. Voting for the Green Party is at least a genuine vote for progressivism and can help them reach the critical 5% general election benchmark. I think I've now said all that I needed to say here in the "Democratic 2020 Presidential Primary Thread." I don't care anymore what happens to this disgusting political party. I'll give the Republicans credit in that at least they are honest and upfront about who they are and what they believe. The Democrats no longer represent the working class and probably never will again. So I don't have a strong opinion on the Andrew Cuomo emergency option that has been bandied around the internet. But my advice to the Democrats is to go ahead and make the switch at the convention if your only public policy is beating Trump, as has been made obvious since Super Tuesday. I think Cuomo could conceivably stoke the necessary voting enthusiasm in the general election to win. I've long doubted Biden's ability to seal the deal, and that latest enthusiasm poll only reinforces my doubts. Force Biden to step down in July for "health reasons" or due to the Tara Reade controversy. The optics of wasting everyone's time during the primaries to undemocratically select a candidate at the convention are...well...not good, but at this point the bar for DNC political integrity is so low that Cuomo can easily clear it in July. Anyway, my political rant is over. Stay safe, everyone, and God bless all you health professionals! We will celebrate your heroism after all of this passes. nice post, Kay.. my only qualm here would be that, the Dem party is just one faction of a single entity. of which, all extremities of have one concern and one concern only, and you and i, we aren't on it. useless chattel only serve one purpose. can we burn them all to the ground and start over? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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