Reed83HOF Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lofton80 said: Peyton Manning's first 5 starts, the Colts avg. 10 points a game and went 0-4 and ended up 3-13. That was with Faulk and Harrison as weapons. Troy Aikman threw 8 interceptions in his first 4 starts. Josh Allen just beat 2 playoff teams in his first 4 starts. I think Allen deserves some time to progress. Did you even read the article? 4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Right on cue! This is objective and fair analysis. Just because you never heard of Marino it doesn't mean his assessment isn't accurate. It's actually a good assessment... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Lofton80 said: Peyton Manning's first 5 starts, the Colts avg. 10 points a game and went 0-4 and ended up 3-13. That was with Faulk and Harrison as weapons. Troy Aikman threw 8 interceptions in his first 4 starts. Josh Allen just beat 2 playoff teams in his first 4 starts. I think Allen deserves some time to progress. a better run organization wouldn't have put Payton in that position... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Did you even read the article? It's actually a good assessment... The visceral reactionary Josh Allen defenses without even reading the analysis are pretty sad. Edited October 9, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, dubs said: If Dan Marino wrote that blog I might put some credibility into it. Joe Marino, nah. Basically he he wrote what we all know. Allen is a raw rookie with a ton of potential and lot to learn and a terrible supporting cast. Boom! I’m a blogger for the Draft Dudes! If you actually provided film breakdowns, you could be. That's kind of the beauty of America; if you're willing to put the work in and know what you're doing, there's a decent chance you can carve out a niche for yourself like he has. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 51 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: I truly enjoy the hyperbole that other QBs would look the same if not worse in our offense. 1) Baker Mayfield is playing on arguably the worst team in NFL history who have Landry and a bunch of young unproven talent. 2) Sam Darnold was traded up for, but the Jets still finished with the sixth overall pick. They are not a quality team and Sam is playing extremely well for them. 3) Josh Rosen is on a team many have felt were worse than the Bills, and yet is playing very good ball. 1. Baker Mayfield has some of the most talented receiving options in the AFC North as a whole. Yes, AB stands alone as he's arguably the best WR in the entire NFL, but after that who comes next? Landry could be...JuJu benefits from AB on the other side, Njoku a 1st round pick, Callaway's Draft status had nothing to do with talent so that's another very talented WR and add Duke Johnson a receiving threat, Carlos Hyde doing great and then Nick Chubb who's a beast. That's not including an emerging WR in Higgins. Mayfield has the most support of any of the other three and has the most starts and experience in college. 2. Darnold had a good game this week - no caveats, but his QB rating of 77.2, with 7 TDs (good) to 6 INTS (not so good); 83 of 149. He has Anderson and Enunwa to throw to, not to mention Crowell who is playing well and a more experienced Offensive line. 3. Rosen - has a poor Offensive line but has Fitz, Kirk and David Johnson in his prime and yet had a 40% completion rate this last Sunday against a questionable 49ers Defense. And, that's taking into account the lone big play to Kirk for 75 yards and a TD. He gets credit for that absolutely, but so does the rest of the game in context. He currently has 2 TDs and 1 INT with a 49% completion rate over three games. I'm not down on any of these guys, including Allen. I think all of them will probably have illustrious careers when it's all said and done. I said last year and still believe 2018 QB class will be like the 1983 QB Draft class in the longevity of greatness from QBs. BUT, you CANNOT point to the other three and presume that they're doing better than Allen in nearly any way AND each of them have better receivers and according to PFF two of them (Browns and Jets) have a better Offensive lines. Allen has done more with less in nearly every sense of the word. He needs to continue to improve and I do believe he left plays on the field, but let's be real about what he doesn't have around him and consider all the context, please. Edited October 9, 2018 by BigBuff423 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 46 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: I truly enjoy the hyperbole that other QBs would look the same if not worse in our offense. 1) Baker Mayfield is playing on arguably the worst team in NFL history who have Landry and a bunch of young unproven talent. 2) Sam Darnold was traded up for, but the Jets still finished with the sixth overall pick. They are not a quality team and Sam is playing extremely well for them. 3) Josh Rosen is on a team many have felt were worse than the Bills, and yet is playing very good ball. Let's be fair here: 1) The 2017 Browns were atrocious overall. The 2018 Browns have far better skill position players on offense than the Bills. Tell me you wouldn't take Jarvis Landry, Carlos Hyde, Nick Chubb, Duke Johnson, and David Njoku over what Buffalo has... 2) Don't look now, but the Jets have Robby Anderson (who the entire league--but not a few of us astute TSW posters--missed on in 2016), Quincy Enunwa, and Jermaine Kearse at WR. Definitely better than our crop of WR. Oh, and if Darnold completing 45% of his throws against Denver qualifies as "playing extremely well", then you should be thrilled with Allen. 3) What. Are. You. Talking. About. The Cardinals just won their first game of the season behind a 10/25 performance from Rosen. No offense, but you can't expect to have any credibility when you blast other folks supposed hyperbole and then make outlandish claims yourself. 17 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: Keep hanging your hat on he's a rookie and rookies make mistakes. That's true but he's doing simple things really poorly. A better run organization would've tried to put him in a better position. Ain't that the truth? He needed time from the beginning--this kid was playing at Wyoming 9 months ago. Instead of giving him time and a solid supporting cast, he gets thrown into the mix with the worst offensive personnel group in the game (by a significant margin), and people are somehow surprised that he looks like a raw-but-talented kid that was playing for Wyoming 9 months ago 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: Let's be fair here: 1) The 2017 Browns were atrocious overall. The 2018 Browns have far better skill position players on offense than the Bills. Tell me you wouldn't take Jarvis Landry, Carlos Hyde, Nick Chubb, Duke Johnson, and David Njoku over what Buffalo has... 2) Don't look now, but the Jets have Robby Anderson (who the entire league--but not a few of us astute TSW posters--missed on in 2016), Quincy Enunwa, and Jermaine Kearse at WR. Definitely better than our crop of WR. Oh, and if Darnold completing 45% of his throws against Denver qualifies as "playing extremely well", then you should be thrilled with Allen. 3) What. Are. You. Talking. About. The Cardinals just won their first game of the season behind a 10/25 performance from Rosen. No offense, but you can't expect to have any credibility when you blast other folks supposed hyperbole and then make outlandish claims yourself. Ok, you just cheated bandit...you were looking at my paper (see post above)...... Jk Bro.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 19 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: Keep hanging your hat on he's a rookie and rookies make mistakes. That's true but he's doing simple things really poorly. A better run organization would've tried to put him in a better position. Simple things such as what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 34 minutes ago, ricojes said: No, Peteman was "straight-up" bad. The Bills have no chance to win with Peterman at QB. They have a chance with Allen even though he's learning as he goes. Allen is a project, it's no surprise he is struggling to read defenses and make the right reads. I know it's been 4 starts and he should know by now, but it's most likely going to take a little longer... I think bad is an understatement for Peterman. He's been historically bad in 2 of his 3 starts, and regular bad the rest of the time. He doesn't look like he belongs on an NFL roster at all. Allen is at least at the level of a bad NFL QB, and there's real reasons to think/hope he'll get better, especially with more playing time. And he did at least have the one good game so far, and has shown that he can win if the D gives him several takeaways. That's miles ahead of Peterman, but miles behind what we hope he'll become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just wanted to pop in and say this is a reasonable, objective, fair analysis on Marino's part. He even acknowledged on Twitter that he was going to get ripped apart by sensitive Bills fans. He clearly states that he's not saying Allen won't improve, he's not calling him a bust, he's simply pointing out where he's currently lacking and what he needs to improve upon. If Bills fans STILL get upset over such a reasonable and fair analysis or find reasons to pick it apart or claim Allen is being persecuted, they really, REALLY need to get thicker skin. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 A raw rookie that needed a year is raw shocker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 4 games started....known raw prospect.... Thats enough....bust :sarcasm: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crowing Rooster Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, No Place To Hyde said: Ok, and we knew he would take time to learn back BEFORE he was drafted. Why do the expectations change? Right now he is as advertised. Since we drafted him we have: Given him 3rd and 2nd team reps mostly in TC and preseason Not upgraded anything on offense to support a very inexperienced rookie Given him a QB coach in Culley that before last year hadn't coached QBs since the 80s Have him play behind a Castillo led oline. Had we moved up for Darnold or taken Rosen instead I truly believe neither one would look any better in this offense. We Will have a much better feel for what we have in Allen about 8 games into next season. Let the kid get all the 1st team reps in the off season. Let him hold some private workouts with newly signed receivers and get timing and trust down. He may sink or he may swim, but calling him a failure this soon after knowing he would take time is just idiotic. 4 Culley as QB coach isn't as bad as the Eagles having Castillo as DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 19 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said: I tend to disagree with most fans not for just the sake of argument but I think Josh is progressing nicely, beating a stout Minnesota defense and another top notch defense in the Titans, he also was behind towards the end and hit on a few plays to get them into FG range. Signs are all pointing in the right direction that we found our QB of the present and future and I'm not really sure why others are doubting, just my opinions though. Agreed. I guess I’m just not a big stats guy. I was pretty thrilled with how he played Sunday, and actually surprised to see so much criticism here afterwards. Most of his mistakes are things that can be coached and fixed. The good stuff - toughness, that TD run, the poise in that game winning drive - cannot be taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobblehead Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I write this with no agenda or narrative, but I expected more out of Joe Marino, it’s discouraging that he doesn’t understand what a clean pocket is at this stage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Chris66 said: Watching Allen try to play qb is brutal. Is school out again today in New England?... 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk232 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Ramza86 said: This is a good video. I thought this was Allens worst game. Lets not forget the Titans are a very well run defense. Im not hitting the panic button. I think the second half of the season will say more about Allen and his ability to get acclimated with the position. With Woodyard healthy maybe, but he was out that game. Casey was the only notable run stuffer playing on Sunday. Not to mention a few outlets have the Titans run defense in the bottom half of the league: ESPN has them at 26 currently against the run, PFF has them at 13 fwiw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 12 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said: 4 games started....known raw prospect.... Thats enough....bust :sarcasm: Bills fans seriously need to get thicker skin. It's embarrassing. No one said he's a bust. No one denied that he was already known to be raw. It's a simple article. It states that Allen hasn't played particularly well so far and lists some areas in which he can improve. Toughen. The. !@#$. Up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpsredemption Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Cash said: Good article. Allen is straight-up bad right now. Will be interesting to see if he ends the season better than he is now. You're not allowed to say that! Just look at my thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 29 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Right on cue! This is objective and fair analysis. Just because you never heard of Marino it doesn't mean his assessment isn't accurate. May be accurate, but he's still just another guy sitting in his basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, bobblehead said: I write this with no agenda or narrative, but I expected more out of Joe Marino, it’s discouraging that he doesn’t understand what a clean pocket is at this stage. I’m sure Marino’s willingness to criticize Allen with pieces like this have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he was a huge Allen skeptic before the draft. Nope. None whatsoever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 These analysts can throw out a lot of statistics to support their conclusions. However, consider that Allen has faced 3 top 10 defensive units (in yards allowed) while Darnold has faced 1 (Jacksonville looking like a rookie) and Mayfield has faced 1 (Baltimore and squeezed out a 12-9 OT win). That doesn't prove anything about how Allen is performing vs. his peers in the draft class but it does point out a big disparity in the quality of the opposing defenses they've faced. In baseball parlance, Allen has faced a lot of 'major league pitching' and has a 2-2 record. His peers are hitting a lot of homers in the minors. With the strength of schedule becoming more favorable to the Bills the rest of the way I'm expecting Allen's QB stats to reflect that factor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: A raw rookie that needed a year is raw shocker A raw rookie that had limited reps with the 1st unit during preseason and 4 actual game starts up to now. Bills are 2 - 2 in those starts defeating 2 playoff caliber football teams. The fact that Allen is about as raw as they get and still managed the Titans game like a savvy veteran speaks volumes IMO. Josh Allens ability to run the football will help carry him to where he needs to be in the passing game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, The Monk said: Culley as QB coach isn't as bad as the Eagles having Castillo as DC. That's like saying a kick in the gonads isnt as bad as a knife to the gonads. Neither are desirable and both are really bad for production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said: I’m sure Marino’s willingness to criticize Allen with pieces like this have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he was a huge Allen skeptic before the draft. Nope. None whatsoever. Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 34 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Right on cue! This is objective and fair analysis. Just because you never heard of Marino it doesn't mean his assessment isn't accurate. Correct. But instead of just throwing out some snarky comment, why not actually give me some data in what the guy's background is so I can judge whether he has expertise? maybe it's because he doesn't. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Logic said: Jesus Christ. Triggered? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, oldmanfan said: Correct. But instead of just throwing out some snarky comment, why not actually give me some data in what the guy's background is so I can judge whether he has expertise? maybe it's because he doesn't. Do your own research before throwing shade at him. The bottom line is you'd have the same reaction based on your previous history irrespective of whose analysis it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 28 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: The visceral reactionary Josh Allen defenses without even reading the analysis are pretty sad. To be honest corner your attacking of josh Allen supporter because you didn’t agree with the pick is pretty sad never saw you do that before this year you have always seemed very level headed now you go out of your way to do this 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: Triggered? Bills fans any time anyone says ANYTHING bad about Allen, you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk232 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, No Place To Hyde said: Ok, and we knew he would take time to learn back BEFORE he was drafted. Why do the expectations change? Right now he is as advertised. Since we drafted him we have: Given him 3rd and 2nd team reps mostly in TC and preseason Not upgraded anything on offense to support a very inexperienced rookie Given him a QB coach in Culley that before last year hadn't coached QBs since the 80s. Have him play behind a Castillo led oline. Had we moved up for Darnold or taken Rosen instead I truly believe neither one would look any better in this offense. We Will have a much better feel for what we have in Allen about 8 games into next season. Let the kid get all the 1st team reps in the off season. Let him hold some private workouts with newly signed receivers and get timing and trust down. He may sink or he may swim, but calling him a failure this soon after knowing he would take time is just idiotic. Thank you...to be honest, I was not an Allen fan pre-draft, and my conclusions on him are still in the air until next season. Not that we should be expecting the worst, but let's humor the hypothetical right now: We go into this offseason with draft capital (10 picks) and a hefty purse to spend. We use this to build a team around Allen and address position needs. We give Allen this team to take into next season and get a better sense of how he will progress in later years and determine if drafting another QB is going to be necessary. What's actually a silver lining here is his raw, undeveloped potential - where if he doesn't develop at all, we're looking at a high draft pick we can likely use on another QB in 2020. If he does develop, then awesome, we have a QB of the future and what we hope to be a strong team having upgraded multiple positions the year before. By no way in means have I cashed in my Allen ticket just yet - I think it's ridiculous to speculate at all how this kid may turn out after only 4 games. One thing we do know is this isn't unfamiliar for him. He's been the "raw" "undeveloped" QB his whole life, and supposedly has the mental toughness to deal with early struggles and external pressure. But there's no reason Allen sends us down another 18 year drought, we just need to enjoy the process, however it ends up. Update: the one piece in relation to the article that really has me behind the "let go of Culley" train is that it is evidently clear Allen needs to develop beyond x's and o's with footwork, pocket presence, and mechanics to properly maximize his physical traits. This is why the Andersen signing has me scratching my head - footwork and mechanics should be taught from the QB coach, and I just don't trust Culley to be the guy Allen needs right now. Do we really think Andersen is going to sit down with Allen and walk him through proper footwork mechanics to maximize his arm strength? Please...let's invest in our future and bring in a true QB coach to help this kid along. Andersen likely can't hurt (I say with caution), but the greater need here is guidance from a coach. Edited October 9, 2018 by ctk232 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: To be honest corner your attacking of josh Allen supporter because you didn’t agree with the pick is pretty sad never saw you do that before this year you have always seemed very level headed now you go out of your way to do this I'm not a cheerleading homer . I say what I see just as I did with Peterman when people gave me crap about it. The difference is Allen has real talent and he can be good if he puts it all together. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Figster said: A raw rookie that had limited reps with the 1st unit during preseason and 4 actual game starts up to now. Bills are 2 - 2 in those starts defeating 2 playoff caliber football teams. The fact that Allen is about as raw as they get and still managed the Titans game like a savvy veteran speaks volumes IMO. Josh Allens ability to run the football will help carry him to where he needs to be in the passing game. I fully expect josh to get better as the season goes on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobblehead Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: Triggered? Yeah no kidding. That response was a bit much. Trolling and crusading is rampant here. It’s a problem. Regardless of what you think of a particular player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Do your own research before throwing shade at him. The bottom line is you'd have the same reaction based on your previous history irrespective of whose analysis it is. Why do you refuse to read? Why? One of the first things I wrote was that I tried to Google the guy to see what his background was, and couldn't find anything. So I asked folks here about it so I can judge. Instead of giving me info, all you want to do is throw out snarky crap. If you know about his background, why not share it? He breaks down this 22 film stuff as if he's a pro. It would be helpful to me to know something about his background to evaluate his critique. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Logic said: Bills fans any time anyone says ANYTHING bad about Allen, you mean? Cry about it. I blasted Allen pretty relentlessly last week. Doesn’t mean I can’t recognize a biased writer when I see one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, ctk232 said: With Woodyard healthy maybe, but he was out that game. Casey was the only notable run stuffer playing on Sunday. Not to mention a few outlets have the Titans run defense in the bottom half of the league: ESPN has them at 26 currently against the run, PFF has them at 13 fwiw Sorry I meant run as in managed well as a whole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjv001 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I don't begrudge people making a living in the sports media world. More power to them. However, any rational person knows that's most sport media analyst don't have the qualifications to make assessments on such a small sample size. What's even more troubling, is how many people read this trash and believe it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said: You're not allowed to say that! Just look at my thread. You can say it you would just look like a fool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 The other rookies are looking more solid right now, and more polished. But in the long run - and this could just be the homer in me - I’m glad we got Allen. He just seems more suited for Buffalo than the others, and that’s probably because he reminds me a bit of Kelly. He has that kind of toughness - a linebacker mentality with QB skills. And that arm is electric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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