Josh Allen: A fawn in headlights

[GunnerBill]

Josh did suck yesterday. He does struggle to read things quickly and get the ball out on time at the moment and that is a worry. But the offense around him was an even bigger mess so I think it's a case of don't freak out mark it up as a rookie learning on the job on a bad team and hope he has another good day next week at home against the Titans. 

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Allen needs to play better when he gets opportunities to throw, and he needs to rise to the occasion of seeing blitzes and getting the ball our quick. Whereas he was great at feeling the pressure last week, he looked lost this week.

 

I was hopeful that Allen wouldn’t be afraid to pull the trigger even when his receivers aren’t getting much separation. If the WR can’t come down with an accurate and well-placed ball, then that’s on the WR. If Allen holds the ball too long and gets sacked, that’s on him.

 

Right now Allen’s tentativeness is the most frustrating part. As a result he’s just a taller, slower version of Tuh’Rod.

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

I was hopeful that Allen wouldn’t be afraid to pull the trigger even when his receivers aren’t getting much separation. If the WR can’t come down with an accurate and well-placed ball, then that’s on the WR. If Allen holds the ball too long and gets sacked, that’s on him.

 

Right now Allen’s tentativeness is the most frustrating part. As a result he’s just a taller, slower version of Tuh’Rod.

 

He has thrown some contested balls, and he has pushed windows that Taylor would never dream of.

 

The problem is, that from what I have seen of down the field action, the receivers aren't even creating windows. There's a difference between throwing into traffic, and throwing a pass that has no chance. I am sure he could do better, but it's a pretty rough situation. 

 

Also, for being a Taylor detractor, I must admit, he did some good things last year all things considered- though this offense has actually managed to get worse. 

[JPP]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

So the Bills FO should add OL and WRs this offseason?!? What a novel idea! Thanks Simms!

I think the point is not to continue ignoring the needs on the offensive side of the ball......I hope beane/mcd do not go all in on defence again next season......

[LSHMEAB]

The fact of the matter is that Allen may very well not be the guy.

 

For all the excuses, Allen did not look the part. There was an errant throw early in the game that I could have sworn I saw Aaron Rodgers literally shaking his head at. Now it could have been a coincidence that Rodgers and a teammate were laughing about something else, but it was BAD. I believe it was intended for Clay.

 

Allen is going to be the guy this season, but there's a very real chance we struck out on this pick. If that's the case, the sooner the regime accepts it, the better. We did a pretty good job of cutting our losses with Manuel.

[JerseyBills]

57 minutes ago, teef said:

i didn't think he looked rattled at all.  he made some dumb mistakes, but the entire team was off, not just allen.  i'm expecting to see more stinkers like this this season.

I disagree. He was rattled in the First Half. It was clear, phantom pressure, leaving pocket early , not setting feet. 

But the silver lining to me is he looked much better in 2nd half, WHEN he had time , he stepped up in pocket and stayed composed

[teef]

2 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I disagree. He was rattled in the First Half. It was clear, phantom pressure, leaving pocket early , not setting feet. 

But the silver lining to me is he looked much better in 2nd half, WHEN he had time , he stepped up in pocket and stayed composed

i think we all more or less saw the same thing, but we're just labeling it differently.  josh wasn't good, from many faults of his, and many, many faults of the team.  that's ok for now, but this staff is definitely going to have to be mega proactive this off season on how they want to help him out.

[Scott7975]

45 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I saw numerous times him bailing from a perfectly fine pocket.... probably due to him being hit early and often in the game. 

 

That's probably in part due to coaching and internal clock.  Couple that with he is young  and just wants to make a play for the team.

[zow2]

He's working through it. Am i slightly concerned? Yes.  He can't get happy feet and start running around, backwards, like a keystone cops routine.  Even with zero talent around him, he needs to show some composure in the pocket and at least hit on some passes, even if the windows are tiny.  I think we will see that his running days will be limited going forward. He needs to use this season to learn how to be an NFL QB.  I would hope the Green bay game is his worst game this season.  If not we're in trouble.

[vorpma]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

I thought he stayed poised all game.  Never once looked overwhelmed.  He made mistakes (as rookies do).  He had zero help from his line and the play calling was a !@#$ing joke.

 

He just made his 3rd career start.  Against the Packers in Green Bay.  Not sure what people are expecting from this kid.

Great post, they are returning after the win last week, another win and they will retreat into hibernation until the next opportune loss! 

[Mrbojanglezs]

 

His problem is not that he is scared or rattled.

 

His problem is that he wants to MAKE PLAYS, he knows that his line and WRs suck so he is trying to play backyard football miracle ball to make plays. If he knew he had longer than 1.8 seconds to throw the ball or he had a WR that would go up and catch the ball,  I would think he would be more willing to step up in the pocket

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, vorpma said:

Great post, they are returning after the win last week, another win and they will retreat into hibernation until the next opportune loss! 

 

Or last week we were saying "Josh played well". People are going to comment on his performance. The games he does well people will say "he did well," and the games where he is bad people will say "he was bad." There might be a small group who only want to comment when it is a negative but most people are just being realistic week to week.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

 

His problem is not that he is scared or rattled.

 

His problem is that he wants to MAKE PLAYS, he knows that his line and WRs suck so he is trying to play backyard football miracle ball to make plays. If he knew he had longer than 1.8 seconds to throw the ball or he had a WR that would go up and catch the ball,  I would think he would be more willing to step up in the pocket

 

That's the way I view it too.  He wants to hit that 25-35 yarder downfield all the time which is why he's holding onto the ball.  

I really hope he was really paying attention to Aaron Rodgers yesterday and learning.  Heat coming, 3 step, ball out.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

That's the way I view it too.  He wants to hit that 25-35 yarder downfield all the time which is why he's holding onto the ball.  

I really hope he was really paying attention to Aaron Rodgers yesterday and learning.  Heat coming, 3 step, ball out.  

 

I'm not convinced he sees the underneath and short stuff coming open quickly yet. Game still needs to slow down. At the moment it must be like a complete blur for him.

[Mrbojanglezs]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

That's the way I view it too.  He wants to hit that 25-35 yarder downfield all the time which is why he's holding onto the ball.  

I really hope he was really paying attention to Aaron Rodgers yesterday and learning.  Heat coming, 3 step, ball out.  

 

The coaching staff is not doing him any favors either, the WRs seems to be running routes that are 10+ yards downfield. Thats all well in good we have the QB that can theoretically throw a vertical passing game but why not work to our strengths (lack of OL time/good hands WR)?

 

McCoy, Charles, Ray Ray etc should all be running short screens, slants, crossing patterns to get the ball out quick to get Allen in a rhythm early and move the ball at least into field goal range.

 

Then when we are in 2nd and 3 or less we can try to hit those 20 yard + downfield throws.

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm not convinced he sees the underneath and short stuff coming open quickly yet. Game still needs to slow down. At the moment it must be like a complete blur for him.

 

Are we sure the underneath stuff IS coming open at all?

 

I havent seen an all-22, but it sure seems like he's looking at those quick reads first, seeing everyone is covered, and instead of throwing the ball away he's trying to move on to a deep, last resort option.

[LABILLBACKER]

He looked like a frightened 12 yr old

[Ittakestime]

Dude turned his back to the defense more than I have ever seen a QB do, and people want to sit here and say he wasn't overwhelmed?!?!

 

Like I stated multiple times before, Allen can't mentally play QB in NFL.  Guy can't read a defense to save his life (pre snap and post).

 

Don't give me that rookie crap either.  First snap Rosen took last week and this week, he is changing play based on D's alignment.

 

Josh Allen will never be good.  Bills better use their high pick next year to take a real QB prospect.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Are we sure the underneath stuff IS coming open at all?

 

I havent seen an all-22, but it sure seems like he's looking at those quick reads first, seeing everyone is covered, and instead of throwing the ball away he's trying to move on to a deep, last resort option.

There won't be any deep routes open this season. Foster is too inconsistent and besides the OL can only buy him 1.5 seconds. Daboll needs to eliminate deep routes completely for this year.

[teef]

39 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

Dude turned his back to the defense more than I have ever seen a QB do, and people want to sit here and say he wasn't overwhelmed?!?!

 

Like I stated multiple times before, Allen can't mentally play QB in NFL.  Guy can't read a defense to save his life (pre snap and post).

 

Don't give me that rookie crap either.  First snap Rosen took last week and this week, he is changing play based on D's alignment.

 

Josh Allen will never be good.  Bills better use their high pick next year to take a real QB prospect.

 

can you call and tell someone?

 

i get this kind of response.  it's easy.  just call the kid a bust, and every time a bad game comes up, you can scream i told you so.  but you have it easy on the other end too!  if he develops into a good starter, you can just let us know how glad you are too be wrong!  it get it.  

Edited October 1, 2018 by teef

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, teef said:

i didn't think he looked rattled at all.  he made some dumb mistakes, but the entire team was off, not just allen.  i'm expecting to see more stinkers like this this season.

 

Honestly, the biggest issue to me was that Allen clearly didn’t trust the protection and OL.  He seemed to abandon the pocket and move outside the protection too early too often because he didn’t think he could step into the pocket.  Once the pressure slowed down late in the game, Josh started stepping up into the pocket and delivering strikes again.  

 

When the OL is playing like a revolving door, it’s no surprise to see a young athletic QB to stop trusting and try and do it all on his own.  But the problem is compounded further when you have a severe lack of play makers to throw too who struggle to get open or separation.  

 

This kid is going to be special IMHO, but he will have a lot of lumps this year, the supporting cast is the worst in the NFL by a mile.  To have a young QB have to try and carry the offense on his back and elevate mediocre to bad players is just crazy, especially since he is learning the game still.

[PolishPrince]

1 hour ago, fridge said:

Terrible OL and a bunch of no-name WRs?

 

Remember when Chan Gailey had a worse group so he spread the offense, focused on quick passes and started going toe-to-toe with the Patriots through the air? At the very least it was fun to watch.

Which is exactly how we should be passing with this group. Just because Josh has a strong arm doesnt me we should only run routes 15 yards +. We rarely had under neath quick hitting options this game... well besides the screen to Holmes - who the hell thought that was a good idea??

[Alaska Darin]

This game was example number one why you don't start rookie QBs without complimentary talent. 

[Royale with Cheese]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm not convinced he sees the underneath and short stuff coming open quickly yet. Game still needs to slow down. At the moment it must be like a complete blur for him.

 

I completely agree.

[Roundybout]

12 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

Dude turned his back to the defense more than I have ever seen a QB do, and people want to sit here and say he wasn't overwhelmed?!?!

 

Like I stated multiple times before, Allen can't mentally play QB in NFL.  Guy can't read a defense to save his life (pre snap and post).

 

Don't give me that rookie crap either.  First snap Rosen took last week and this week, he is changing play based on D's alignment.

 

Josh Allen will never be good.  Bills better use their high pick next year to take a real QB prospect.

 

 

Your name is the most ironic thing on this forum. Oh, and Rosen threw a pick on his first drive last week. He will never be good, right?

[DrDawkinstein]

11 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

There won't be any deep routes open this season. Foster is too inconsistent and besides the OL can only buy him 1.5 seconds. Daboll needs to eliminate deep routes completely for this year.

 

You still have to run them, otherwise teams will stack the box with all 11 defenders and completely snuff the run game and all underneath routes.

 

Even if they cant get open, you still need to run them and make the defense defend the entire field.

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

I thought he stayed poised all game.  Never once looked overwhelmed.  He made mistakes (as rookies do).  He had zero help from his line and the play calling was a !@#$ing joke.

 

He just made his 3rd career start.  Against the Packers in Green Bay.  Not sure what people are expecting from this kid.

 

He never looked poised yesterday
 

 

1 hour ago, Philo Beddoe said:

I have absolutely no idea why it seemed every pass play was long developing when Josh was getting blitzed like crazy. I am hesitant to put a lot of fault on the WRs because I feel the play calling was freaking terrible compared to last week. Not saying they are any good...just that the offensive game plan left a lot to be desired.

 

Allen has to make the read at the line and get the ball out quickly. He obviously does not do a good job dissecting the D at the LOS. This was blatantly obvious when on one play it was an obvious all out blitz and all Allen did was take the snap and run like a scared chicken. You can't do that its 2 steps throw. Not take the snap run away as fast as you can and make an ill advised throw.

 

I am sure seeing lots of people wanting to like Allen but not willing to call it the way it is.. He is not looking poised, he is not making good reads leading to quick throws. 

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

I saw numerous times him bailing from a perfectly fine pocket.... probably due to him being hit early and often in the game. 

 

 

That is the very definition of Not Poised, see above quotes

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

I don't think JP Losman ever looked rattled. Terrible? Yes, but rattled? Not really.

 

He was too stupid to be rattled.

[jo39416]

I was at the game on Sunday and say 15 feet from Allen and carefully watched him throughout the game.   Was visibly frustrated throughout, but kept grinding - seeing him get the call from upstairs after he threw that pick in the endzone was something to see - was mad at himself and had to keep himself from throwing his helmet at times.

 

After that bad fumble call came back to the sidelines and said, "in what world was that a F***ing fumble?!?"  

 

Overall he was upset, not doubt but at no point did I think he was lost, scared, or deer in the headlights.  

 

Seems like he was too fired up for his own good.

[Dablitzkrieg]

Yesterday was the first time in my life that I turned off the game before halftime.  It was pathetic to watch!

Edited October 1, 2018 by Dablitzkrieg

[Royale with Cheese]

16 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Your name is the most ironic thing on this forum. Oh, and Rosen threw a pick on his first drive last week. He will never be good, right?

 

He's also adamant that Tremaine Edmunds will bust at MLB.

The guy has been responsible for 3 turnovers so far.

The fumble in week 1, the hit that jarred the ball lose for Milano to pick it and the tipped ball yesterday for Poyer to pick it.  Has 30 total tackles so far.

[Wayne Arnold]

45 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

 

His problem is not that he is scared or rattled.

 

His problem is that he wants to MAKE PLAYS, he knows that his line and WRs suck so he is trying to play backyard football miracle ball to make plays. If he knew he had longer than 1.8 seconds to throw the ball or he had a WR that would go up and catch the ball,  I would think he would be more willing to step up in the pocket

 

These are just excuses.

 

Allen had the second-longest snap-to-pass-attempt time in Week 4 at 2.75 seconds.

 

A QB who wants to make plays gets rid of the Football. 

[AllenWillBust]

2 hours ago, teef said:

i didn't think he looked rattled at all.  he made some dumb mistakes, but the entire team was off, not just allen.  i'm expecting to see more stinkers like this this season.

 

Not only this season I think...

[Roundybout]

1 minute ago, AllenWillBust said:

 

Not only this season I think...

 

You don't have an agenda at all

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

He's also adamant that Tremaine Edmunds will bust at MLB.

The guy has been responsible for 3 turnovers so far.

The fumble in week 1, the hit that jarred the ball lose for Milano to pick it and the tipped ball yesterday for Poyer to pick it.  Has 30 total tackles so far.

 

Seriously, if there has been one bright spot (there have been a few), it is that Edmunds is looking like a monster out there.

Edited October 1, 2018 by BillsEnthusiast

[AllenWillBust]

Just now, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

You don't have an agenda at all

 

Neither do the Bills apparently, unless drafting busts like Allen & Jones is their modus operandi.

[teef]

3 minutes ago, AllenWillBust said:

 

Not only this season I think...

good for you!  does this make you happy?

[AllenWillBust]

Just now, teef said:

good for you!  does this make you happy?

 

What Bills fan is happy right now?  The drunken ones?

[K-9]

50 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

 

His problem is not that he is scared or rattled.

 

His problem is that he wants to MAKE PLAYS, he knows that his line and WRs suck so he is trying to play backyard football miracle ball to make plays. If he knew he had longer than 1.8 seconds to throw the ball or he had a WR that would go up and catch the ball,  I would think he would be more willing to step up in the pocket

Agree entirely. He was trying to force the issue and make something happen. That’s more like a cornered lion than a deer in the headlights. Josh Allen may end up busting, but he’s gonna bust while going down swinging. Along the way, he’s going to learn that he can’t beat pros with his sheer athletic ability and strong arm like he’s always been used to doing. 

[AllenWillBust]

1 hour ago, I am the egg man said:

I need to review all the game film before assessing the Josh Allen "fawn in headlights" analogy.

 

McDermott's pressers after a loss are insulting to fans.  

 

He's a bad coach all around, terrible hire by the clueless Pegula's.

[Wayne Arnold]

“His receivers can’t get separation! He has no one to throw to!”