Josh Rosen vs Josh Allen: Game 1 Comparison

[John from Riverside]

I dont suppose it would be out of line to just wish Rosen well in Arizona and just proceed on with our own team?

[What a Tuel]

4 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

Bad snaps are understated. They need to teach whoever is Center how to snap the ball higher. Rosen almost had to dig it out of the ground 5 or 6 times.

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, NickelCity said:

 

Yes, all 4. Rosen was impressive, along with the other 3. His supporting cast did him no favors, he read the field well excepting the one glaring error, and had some very nice throws. 

 

We must have watched different games, I did not leave that game impressed with that performance.  

[JoPar_v2]

6 hours ago, bobobonators said:

 

Haha. Please continue with the “fake narrative” catch-phrase; unfortunately it doesn’t help with your reading comprehension. I said the shoulder width of a 12yr old, not height. I’ll spell it out for you:  he’s built like a flagpole. 

 

 

 

Know who also has sloped shoulders like Rosen? Peyton Manning. Go ahead and take a look at peyton without pads.

 

you’re simultaneously making no point while making yourself look like a foolish hater.

Edited August 13, 2018 by JoPar_v2

[billsbackto81]

8 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

6'4" 226 at the Scouting Combine.  Great size for an NFL QB. 

 

 

Agreed but he sure looks a lot smaller on the screen. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, bobobonators said:

How is my narrative “fake”. Its a guess of what will happen. Much like 99.9% of the content on this board. It also happens to be an educated guess considering he has the shoulder width of a 12yr old boy. 

 

I dunno about "fake" but the OP you're responding to is making the point that:

-Other QB than Rosen have a significant injury history

    -eg: Allen breaking shoulder in HS then re-breaking in college requiring plate and pins, losing season - and reinjuring last season

    -Mayfield 2 concussions in a short period of time in 2016

The point is to assert that Rosen will break in half or is somehow more "injury prone" because of his looks, belies this actual injury history

It's like everyone was talking about how TT was going to get broken because he "looks slight" and runs so much (vs the "thicker" Russ Wilson).  But in 3 seasons, TT lost very little time and was generally tough as nails.

 

So let's stop crafting narratives about how "Rosen has the shoulder width of a 12 year old boy" (he does not) and thus is so much more likely to be hurt.  He may prove durable, he may not, but you can't tell by looking at him.

 

We hope Josh Allen will prove durable, but given his shoulder injury history, it's a concern and looking Roeth-like isn't a "free pass" to avoid injury.

[eball]

4 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Bad snaps are understated. They need to teach whoever is Center how to snap the ball higher. Rosen almost had to dig it out of the ground 5 or 6 times.

 

This was an issue for Allen as well.  Redmond's snaps were SLOW.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I dont suppose it would be out of line to just wish Rosen well in Arizona and just proceed on with our own team?

 

It's clearly not out of line, but it's apparently beyond some folks capabilities.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

It was definitely nice to see Allen flash his talent. Coming from a Rosen guy, after preseason week 1 I'm glad Beane drafted Allen. 

[Sky Diver]

I thought Mayfield and Allen were 1 and 2. I love Allen's pocket presence, his ability to move in the pocket, his running ability, his ability to throw on the run, and his ability to keep his eyes downfield while scrambling. And of course his rifle arm.

 

I am really excited to see what he is going to do.

[Soda Popinski]

5 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

I thought Mayfield and Allen were 1 and 2. I love Allen's pocket presence, his ability to move in the pocket, his running ability, his ability to throw on the run, and his ability to keep his eyes downfield while scrambling. And of course his rifle arm.

 

I am really excited to see what he is going to do.

I liked what I saw from Allen and Mayfield both too.  Decisive, processed information quickly and made good decisions.    

[Sky Diver]

Just now, Soda Popinski said:

I liked what I saw from Allen and Mayfield both too.  Decisive, processed information quickly and made good decisions.    

 

Clearly there is some room for improvement for Allen, but it was an impressive first outing.

[T master]

Although Allens arm strength is apparent his inconsistency from being a rookie was also apparent although that could have been attributed to being protected by the 3rd string o line .

 

I would like to se them start AJ in the next game & give Allen time in the second half with the 2nd team then in the 3rd game start Allen in the 1st quarter & who ever is the front runner for the starting job in the second .

 

I hope that they bring Allen along slowly & don't throw him into he fire like the Bills have done so often in the past with most all of the rookie QB's that they have drafted .

 

Losman, EJ, Trent, I think Allen has a above average chance of being a really good QB i just hope that this coaching staff does things differently (which they have to this point) than the previous staffs that they have had to allow hime to grow within the scheme & game !! 

[BB@Shooter]

12 hours ago, CowboyBill said:

They have quit on plays like that their whole life. They’ve probably never played with a QB that could scramble and still overthrow them. It takes time to break bad habits. Same with Allen, he has typically been able to get away with some boneheaded plays because he hasn’t played against a lot of great defenders. Give them time, they’ve only been practicing together for a few weeks. 

As a former receiver, we were taught in jr. high not to give up on a play until the whistle blew. It has nothing to do with practicing together. Allens receivers in his last year at Wyoming would always give up on plays. It would piss me off to no end. In his sophomore year the reason he did so well on broken plays is because he had experienced receivers. I don't know if the receivers coach dropped the ball or just didn't coach it. But for some reason the receivers the year before knew what to do. It is one of the basic rules od a receiver. Run hard, or away from defenders on a broken play. We had it where one always ran back towards the qb, while the others went to open space. Preferably side to side as most qb's don't have the arm strength to throw it deep on the run. With an arm like Allens I wouldn't bother with one coming back towards the qb. I also played at the college level, although not division 1. They also taught not giving up on a play, you blocked if you thought he was running, kept trying to get open if he looked like he could throw. The best teams out there have great receiver blocking. And receiveers at the pro level should never quit on a play, especially if they are trying to catch on with a team. I would have cut anyone who hasn't figured out to never quit on a play. And others obviously agree with that on here.

[BillsFan692]

Rosen was playing in 1st snd 2nd quarter so not exactly the same to compare him to allen with the third string is it?

[BB@Shooter]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I dunno about "fake" but the OP you're responding to is making the point that:

-Other QB than Rosen have a significant injury history

    -eg: Allen breaking shoulder in HS then re-breaking in college requiring plate and pins, losing season - and reinjuring last season

    -Mayfield 2 concussions in a short period of time in 2016

The point is to assert that Rosen will break in half or is somehow more "injury prone" because of his looks, belies this actual injury history

It's like everyone was talking about how TT was going to get broken because he "looks slight" and runs so much (vs the "thicker" Russ Wilson).  But in 3 seasons, TT lost very little time and was generally tough as nails.

 

So let's stop crafting narratives about how "Rosen has the shoulder width of a 12 year old boy" (he does not) and thus is so much more likely to be hurt.  He may prove durable, he may not, but you can't tell by looking at him.

 

We hope Josh Allen will prove durable, but given his shoulder injury history, it's a concern and looking Roeth-like isn't a "free pass" to avoid injury.

Do you know the shoulder injury Allen had last year? It was a soft tissue injury. It happened on a flea flicker . He was in the process of throwing the ball when a defender hit and stretched the arm. The staff held him out of 2 and a half games as cautionary. So as not to ruin his career. He was on the sideline throwing bombs before for the Fresno State and SJSU games. If he was that injured, I don't think he would be warming up throwing deep passes before those two games. I was there for the Fresno game and saw it with my own 2 eyes. I really didn't think he would play in the bowl game to be honest. But it shows you his character that he did. He didn't want to let down his coaches, fans, and teammates. And he played in all 4 quarters of the bowl game, even though the outcome was already decided. Plus Vigen went back to his conservative play calling the 2nd half. In other words Allen went back to handing the ball off unless it was 3rd and long.

[JoPar_v2]

3 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said:

Do you know the shoulder injury Allen had last year? It was a soft tissue injury. It happened on a flea flicker . He was in the process of throwing the ball when a defender hit and stretched the arm. The staff held him out of 2 and a half games as cautionary. So as not to ruin his career. He was on the sideline throwing bombs before for the Fresno State and SJSU games. If he was that injured, I don't think he would be warming up throwing deep passes before those two games. I was there for the Fresno game and saw it with my own 2 eyes. I really didn't think he would play in the bowl game to be honest. But it shows you his character that he did. He didn't want to let down his coaches, fans, and teammates. And he played in all 4 quarters of the bowl game, even though the outcome was already decided. Plus Vigen went back to his conservative play calling the 2nd half. In other words Allen went back to handing the ball off unless it was 3rd and long.

Did he have a prior injury to that one that required plates/pins as well like Hapless said?

[Formerly Allan in MD]

6 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

I thought Mayfield and Allen were 1 and 2. I love Allen's pocket presence, his ability to move in the pocket, his running ability, his ability to throw on the run, and his ability to keep his eyes downfield while scrambling. And of course his rifle arm.

 

I am really excited to see what he is going to do.

Allen, as our other two quarterback's have shown, gets the ball away quickly.  What a change from Taylor and Manuel.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

wowzers ....  Nice comparison 

On 8/12/2018 at 2:10 AM, BuffaloButt said:

Josh Rosen Gm 1 Stats:

6-13 41 yds 0 TD, 0 Int

 

Josh Allen Gm 1 Stats:

9-19 116 yds 1 TD, 0 Int

 

Initial impression is Rosen looked like an average rookie, nothing special about his game.  He looks a little frail for a QB especially compared to Allen.

 

I'm feeling a little better after seeing these two play part of a game.  I think the Bills made the right choice in the draft but I was originally thinking they were going for Rosen.

 

Josh Allen while inaccurate on some plays, just seems to have the physical gifts that really stand out over Rosen.  Time will tell but I can see why the Bills are hopeful with Allen based on his physical stature and how he fires the ball.  Let's hope he develops into our guy of the future!  

 

Go Bills!!

 

 

 Josh Rosen completed 6 of 13 passes for 41 yards in his Arizona debut, playing the whole first half after the opening series

 

Josh Allen completed 9 of 19 passes for 116 yards his Buffalo Bills debut, playing the whole second half

[ctk232]

On 8/12/2018 at 12:02 AM, Patriot Killa said:

I think Rosen already has a really crummy 1st unit Offensive Line and so playing behind the 2nd/3rd units probably was even that much worse. Pressure came in, WR’s dropped balls. It looked like he was playing at UCLA all over again tbh. 

 

Rosen didn’t look terrible and I definitely wouldn’t say he looked great...but then again I’m also definitely not writing a rookie’s career in stone or predicting who will be the best after 2 quarters of preseason football....that’s not fair to anyone involved. 

I honestly can’t even make an assessment off of any of these guys yet but I can confidently say that none of them looked lost...and that’s a hell of a lot better than most rookies I see play QB in preseason week 1. 

 

I know all of our teams have brand new toys we want to show off and brag about..but it’s not the time yet. I had to take a step back from Darnolds solid performance and take into consideration the circumstances. “Just preseason”

 

I won’t be able to even gauge this until the bye week, until then I’m just going to enjoy the QB play.

Comparing what is able to be compared at this point, I completely agree.

There will always be "way too early" assessments of players, which is about all NFL fans can do up to and through the preseason. But even with the lack of efficacious evaluative data and experience for these rookies aside, most are not currently playing with or receiving consistent reps with first team players, nor are OC's or coaches calling plays from the full playbook in games that don't matter. The only traits we can even begin to see and evaluate in these first four games are how well they synthesized the concepts/playbook as they've been exposed to it thus far, and how have they progressed over the preseason. This is still dependent on consistency of reps and players on the field in game time experiences as well. None of this is a barometer for what the actual season will be.

So rather than purely speculate using third generation observations/reports/opinions from "experts," we might as well do exactly as you mention and "enjoy the quarterback play." Let's just continue watching some fun and not so fun trailers before the feature presentation...

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[bdutton]

On 8/12/2018 at 5:35 AM, JoPar_v2 said:

 

 

For those curious:

 

http://www.nfl.com/m/share?p=%2Fvideos%2Fnfl-game-highlights%2F0ap3000000947382%2FEvery-Josh-Rosen-throw-Preseason-Week-1

Terrible accuracy... should have been picked off a couple of times.  That one good pass to the left side of the field the player didn't get both feet in bounds.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

14 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I dont suppose it would be out of line to just wish Rosen well in Arizona and just proceed on with our own team?

 

...hell, if they ALL succeed, we could have some interesting, competitive head-to-head matchups on any given Sunday like the Class of '83.....

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

20 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

Ha 53 and 56.... none of the others even came close to that. 

7 minutes ago, bdutton said:

Terrible accuracy... should have been picked off a couple of times.  That one good pass to the left side of the field the player didn't get both feet in bounds.

 

It’s really hard to say that with anticipation throwers unless you are positive the WRs are doing exactly what they should be. 

 

I belive there is a huge drop off going down the depth chart of WRs as far as being where they should be when they should. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[26CornerBlitz]

14 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Reviewing Buffalo Bills rookie quarterback Josh Allen's preseason debut | Baldy's Breakdown (4:44)

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

YE OLE was as disappointed as anyone when we drafted Allen. Then YE, like most, went through the usual stages of that thing we do as fans and start justifying it. Eventually YE OLE came around to thinking he may turn out. 

 

All of that said, Josh Allen legitimately makes throws that a vast majority of other QBs cannot make in their wildest dreams. More so than even YE OLE believed at the start of this draft process.

 

Of of course this was preseason... but his ability to make certain throws is what it is regardless. The TD pass was ridiculous and that’s just a throw that isn’t attempted. MCCLOUD III was not open. We’ve all watched it over and over... YE OLE still has no idea how Allen got that ball in there. He’s also much quicker on his feet than I realized. I know what the combine numbers were and he was certainly billed as a pretty mobile guy, but he exceeded my expectations there. 

 

The thing that has moved the bar for me the most is simply the fact of how good his good throws are. The bad throws will probably always be present in his game to some extent, but I’m now of the mind that it might not matter.

[FearLess Price]

On 8/12/2018 at 10:15 PM, BB@Shooter said:

What I don't understand is when people say Allen played with the 3,s, so he faced crappier defenses. How do you know that was the case? Some teams are deeper than others. Carolina had a deep defense. And when you play with a weak 3rd and 4th string, how does that help you overcome a lack of talent? I feel you have no real theory to go off of. Just my opinion. No way you can evenly compare quarterbacks. Why even try? We won't know how Allen would have done against another teams 1,'s , simply because he never got the chance. So why try to even compare. There is no fair way to make your point. It was obvious Allen looked like he was back at Wyoming playing with players who lacked talent. The thing I did notice was that he was more mature and looked like he has been learning on the go. But there is no way to compare qb''s as they were all playing with different talent. On offense and defense. I felt Carolinas 3rd string defense was much better than the Bills 3rd string defense. And the Bills 3rd string O-line was atrocious. And watching some of the Bills receivers quit on plays when Allen was scrambling should get them cut. No reason for that at this level. There is just no way of comparing apples to oranges. You can try, but it won't work. And I understand that it is your opinion and I respect that, but also disagree with it.

 

tl;dr
  

You can try to justify why JA is playing with the 3s while Mayfield, Rosen, and even Lamar Jackson got reps with the 2s, all you want. Its not gonna change anything.

I want Allen to win the QB competition. Or at least beat out pick5petermen for the back up job. I still wanna see him play with the 1s and 2s but 3rd stringers are a lot of people that wont even be in the league next year. Its short sighted to think the 3rd stringers are comparable to the 2nd stringers, even with a spike or drop in talent at some positions their still 3rd string. JA is good dont make excuses for him tho, hes good enough to not need it.

[BB@Shooter]

9 hours ago, FearLess Price said:

 

tl;dr
  

You can try to justify why JA is playing with the 3s while Mayfield, Rosen, and even Lamar Jackson got reps with the 2s, all you want. Its not gonna change anything.

I want Allen to win the QB competition. Or at least beat out pick5petermen for the back up job. I still wanna see him play with the 1s and 2s but 3rd stringers are a lot of people that wont even be in the league next year. Its short sighted to think the 3rd stringers are comparable to the 2nd stringers, even with a spike or drop in talent at some positions their still 3rd string. JA is good dont make excuses for him tho, hes good enough to not need it.

As of now he is with the 2's. And it is a process, each team gets to decide how quick to move up the rookies. If you can't nderstand a basic like that, go watch hockey.

[Sky Diver]

Allen for sure. Bigger, stronger guy who is more mobile and can beat you with his arm and his feet. We all knew about his arm strength but his pocket presence and his ability to move around in the pocket was what impressed me the most. He showed good touch and his two long balls were just off the money.

[BB@Shooter]

18 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Did he have a prior injury to that one that required plates/pins as well like Hapless said?

There were some reports that said he was hurt in high school his sophomore year?  That story came out this year. It had never been reported while he was at Wyoming. I figured after he got the pins and screws put in he would be more conservative, not in the least. He did learn how to slide better though. There were certain teams that targeted him in college, the MWC isn't known for their great officiating. I know Allens weaknesses better than most, he seems to be cleaning them up. How Vigen got lucky and got to coach Allen and Wentz is short of amazing. I personally don't feel Vigen is good enough to coach at the level he is at. It is obvious Allen is coachable, it looks like Vigen didn't have the tools to coach him up. The best thing the coaching staff did for Allen was keep the pro set offense in. I still wonder why Vigen couldn't understand he didn't have a good offensive line at Wyoming. That his run 1st offense hurt Allen and the team as a whole.

[JoPar_v2]

2 hours ago, BB@Shooter said:

There were some reports that said he was hurt in high school his sophomore year?  That story came out this year. It had never been reported while he was at Wyoming. I figured after he got the pins and screws put in he would be more conservative, not in the least. He did learn how to slide better though. There were certain teams that targeted him in college, the MWC isn't known for their great officiating. I know Allens weaknesses better than most, he seems to be cleaning them up. How Vigen got lucky and got to coach Allen and Wentz is short of amazing. I personally don't feel Vigen is good enough to coach at the level he is at. It is obvious Allen is coachable, it looks like Vigen didn't have the tools to coach him up. The best thing the coaching staff did for Allen was keep the pro set offense in. I still wonder why Vigen couldn't understand he didn't have a good offensive line at Wyoming. That his run 1st offense hurt Allen and the team as a whole.

 

Thanks no worries I know you watched him out there in college I just wondered if you had any more info on his injury history.

[FearLess Price]

5 hours ago, BB@Shooter said:

As of now he is with the 2's. And it is a process, each team gets to decide how quick to move up the rookies. If you can't nderstand a basic like that, go watch hockey.

 

It seems you cant understand English. That was not the point at all. We were saying JA played vs less competition than the others. Period. Or are you gonna say Carolinas 3rd string defense is better than 4 different teams 2nd string? Get outta here with that. JA doesnt need ur excuses. Hes good.

Respect the process.

[klos63]

On 8/12/2018 at 12:21 AM, Doc Brown said:

On a side note, that Cardinals color commentator sounded exactly like Jesse Ventura

that's Ron Wolfley from Elma, NY

[BB@Shooter]

6 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

Thanks no worries I know you watched him out there in college I just wondered if you had any more info on his injury history.

No much to tell. He hardly ever missed a play, and took some hard hits. His 1st game at Wyoming he got hurt and had the pins put in. He then hit the weight room and bulked up. His 2016 year was huge, especially considering it was year 3 of a rebuild year. His last year was ugly. The theme was to control clock through ball control. Vigen ran it on 1st and 2nd down. And expected Allen to bail him out on 3rd down. The problem was the other team knew our plays and tendencies. Played an 8 man front. Allen was on the run most of the time. Allen needed an OC like Daboll.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Bigger, stronger, faster .....  did we sign the $6 million  dollar man?

[eball]

On 8/13/2018 at 2:56 PM, BB@Shooter said:

Do you know the shoulder injury Allen had last year? It was a soft tissue injury. It happened on a flea flicker . He was in the process of throwing the ball when a defender hit and stretched the arm. The staff held him out of 2 and a half games as cautionary. So as not to ruin his career. He was on the sideline throwing bombs before for the Fresno State and SJSU games. If he was that injured, I don't think he would be warming up throwing deep passes before those two games. I was there for the Fresno game and saw it with my own 2 eyes. I really didn't think he would play in the bowl game to be honest. But it shows you his character that he did. He didn't want to let down his coaches, fans, and teammates. And he played in all 4 quarters of the bowl game, even though the outcome was already decided. Plus Vigen went back to his conservative play calling the 2nd half. In other words Allen went back to handing the ball off unless it was 3rd and long.

 

21 hours ago, BB@Shooter said:

There were some reports that said he was hurt in high school his sophomore year?  That story came out this year. It had never been reported while he was at Wyoming. I figured after he got the pins and screws put in he would be more conservative, not in the least. He did learn how to slide better though. There were certain teams that targeted him in college, the MWC isn't known for their great officiating. I know Allens weaknesses better than most, he seems to be cleaning them up. How Vigen got lucky and got to coach Allen and Wentz is short of amazing. I personally don't feel Vigen is good enough to coach at the level he is at. It is obvious Allen is coachable, it looks like Vigen didn't have the tools to coach him up. The best thing the coaching staff did for Allen was keep the pro set offense in. I still wonder why Vigen couldn't understand he didn't have a good offensive line at Wyoming. That his run 1st offense hurt Allen and the team as a whole.

 

12 hours ago, BB@Shooter said:

No much to tell. He hardly ever missed a play, and took some hard hits. His 1st game at Wyoming he got hurt and had the pins put in. He then hit the weight room and bulked up. His 2016 year was huge, especially considering it was year 3 of a rebuild year. His last year was ugly. The theme was to control clock through ball control. Vigen ran it on 1st and 2nd down. And expected Allen to bail him out on 3rd down. The problem was the other team knew our plays and tendencies. Played an 8 man front. Allen was on the run most of the time. Allen needed an OC like Daboll.

 

This is good stuff, man -- gives us insight from someone who watched Allen closely in college.  Taking all of this into consideration, it's almost a blessing Allen didn't receive the necessary coaching in college or he may not have been around for the Bills to draft!

[The Senator]

I am glad we drafted Allen over Rosen.  Allen has the right physical attributes and seems to conduct himself perfectly with the coaches, the fans, and the press - even his response to Jalen Ramsey’s “Allen is trash” comment.

 

I thought he looked great in his debut, and it appears that Allen has been elevated to #2 on the depth chart for Friday’s game against Cleveland - at least, he’s been taking snaps w/the 2nd string this week.

 

My gut tells me the team is showcasing Peterman for a trade, that Allen will be the starter next week, and against the Ravens week one.

 

JMO...

 

19 and 0 baby!!!!!

 

GO BILLSSS!!!!!!!

[Gugny]

Just now, The Senator said:

I am glad we drafted Allen over Rosen.  Allen has the right physical attributes and seems to conduct himself perfectly with the coaches, the fans, and the press - even his response to Jalen Ramsey’s “Allen is trash” comment.

 

I thought he looked great in his debut, and it appears that Allen has been elevated to #2 on the depth chart for Friday’s game against Cleveland - at least, he’s been taking snaps w/the 2nd string this week.

 

My gut tells me the team is showcasing Peterman for a trade, that Allen will be the starter next week, and against the Ravens week one.

 

JMO...

 

19 and 0 baby!!!!!

 

GO BILLSSS!!!!!!!

 

Nice to see you, Senator!  Hope all is well!