Shady on Allen in Sporting News

[Shaw66]

I didn't see a thread about this.  Interesting praise from Shady about his rookie qb. 

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/bills-rb-lesean-mccoy-compliemnts-josh-allen-not-big-fan-rookies-draft-pick/c73t872vib9t1xkvftdo6wvs3

 

“It’s still early,” McCoy said. “I don’t want to make him Jim Kelly already. He just has to learn different things, he’s a rookie, and quarterback is such an important role, he’s like a coach on the field as far as making the right reads, being confident, he has so much he has to learn, from his position to the wide receivers, to the linemen, protections, he has a lot on his plate. But other than that, just talent wise and intelligence, he has it to be a starting quarterback, and also a franchise quarterback."

[RoyBatty is alive]

Well Shady's exposure to him has been incredibly limited but nice to hear his comments.  I think this one is very telling, "I want to be part of that when he takes over eventually",  I bolded that, i am of the belief it is highly unlikely J Allen will be the starter to begin the season, he is going to need a lot of time to overtake AJ.

Edited June 18, 2018 by RoyBatty is alive

[TigerJ]

I seen a couple of the quotes, but not all in one place.  Thanks.

[corta765]

2 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Well Shady's exposure to him has been incredibly limited but nice to hear his comments.  I think this one is very telling, "I want to be part of that when he takes over eventually",  I bolded that, i am of the believe highly unlikely J Allen will be the starter to begin the season, he sis going to need a lot of time to overtake HM.

 

I've generally thought they are not going to rush Allen. BUT from what I have read and heard he seems ahead of schedule in his limited work and I could absolutely see him pushing hard for the starter spot. Thing is Peterman looks to be also progressing soo it'll be interesting.

[RoyBatty is alive]

Just now, corta765 said:

 

I've generally thought they are not going to rush Allen. BUT from what I have read and heard he seems ahead of schedule in his limited work and I could absolutely see him pushing hard for the starter spot. Thing is Peterman looks to be also progressing soo it'll be interesting.

Hope you are right and I am one of the few that still has hope for Peterman, granted not much but hope.

[TigerJ]

2 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Well Shady's exposure to him has been incredibly limited but nice to hear his comments.  I think this one is very telling, "I want to be part of that when he takes over eventually",  I bolded that, i am of the believe highly unlikely J Allen will be the starter to begin the season, he sis going to need a lot of time to overtake HM.

I wouldn't read too much into that.  Shady knows the plan is to keep Allen mainly with the threes to start training camp.  There is no time frame associated with "eventually."  Personally, I'm not expecting Allen to be the starter in game one either, but after that, who knows?  game 2 in 2018 or game 1 in 2019, or somewhere in between - or later than 2019.  I haven't got a clue. 

[Kwai San]

Just where the heck is Savior Peterman when you need him most????????......must be a high level meeting day today........

[Fadingpain]

Were we expecting Shady to say something like this?

 

"Looking at all the statistical indicators used to predict QB success in the NFL, I just don't see how the Bills view Allen as a future franchise QB.  The analytics and college video just don't support it."

 

Didn't think so.

 

Let's see how training camp unfolds.

 

 

[Heavy Kevi]

53 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Were we expecting Shady to say something like this?

 

"Looking at all the statistical indicators used to predict QB success in the NFL, I just don't see how the Bills view Allen as a future franchise QB.  The analytics and college video just don't support it."

 

Didn't think so.

 

Let's see how training camp unfolds.

Idk... Shady is generally pretty straight forward

Edited June 18, 2018 by Shotgunner

[Shaw66]

52 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Were we expecting Shady to say something like this?

 

"Looking at all the statistical indicators used to predict QB success in the NFL, I just don't see how the Bills view Allen as a future franchise QB.  The analytics and college video just don't support it."

 

Didn't think so.

 

Let's see how training camp unfolds.

 

 

You're wrong to dismiss what Shady said.  He didn't have to say anything.  He could have ducked the question very easily.  Instead, he talked, about how talented is and how much he has to learn.  Didn't have to say any of that.  I'm guessing it's a pretty fair assessment. 

[Ennjay]

I worry about the progress of the O line.  If these guys can't pass block, there's no reason for Allen to be the QB who gets sacrificed.  Look at what happened to David Carr.

[Wily Dog]

15 minutes ago, Ennjay said:

I worry about the progress of the O line.  If these guys can't pass block, there's no reason for Allen to be the QB who gets sacrificed.  Look at what happened to David Carr.

 

 

look what happened to Peterman in the Chargers game  when the O'line was OLE' ING  the rushers.

 

[eball]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Well Shady's exposure to him has been incredibly limited but nice to hear his comments.  I think this one is very telling, "I want to be part of that when he takes over eventually",  I bolded that, i am of the belief it is highly unlikely J Allen will be the starter to begin the season, he is going to need a lot of time to overtake AJ.

 

When you're in early June, August is "eventually." 

[blacklabel]

I've heard Shady mentioned more than a few times by media guys as one of the more interesting players to talk to. He's not one to give the typical stock answers. He generally has pretty good stuff to say. Based on the quotes I read posted here, seems he's keeping a close eye on the QB competition.

[FLFan]

2 hours ago, Kwai San said:

Just where the heck is Savior Peterman when you need him most????????......must be a high level meeting day today........

Be careful.  If you say his name three times he reappears.  That's one.

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, MDFan said:

Be careful.  If you say his name three times he reappears.  That's one.

If you say it backwards three times will he disappear?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 hours ago, corta765 said:

 

I've generally thought they are not going to rush Allen. BUT from what I have read and heard he seems ahead of schedule in his limited work and I could absolutely see him pushing hard for the starter spot. Thing is Peterman looks to be also progressing soo it'll be interesting.

 

...still don't think the Mc Trio will rush to judgment because he is ahead of schedule....."live ammo" is a WHOLE different ballgame.....

[corta765]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...still don't think the Mc Trio will rush to judgment because he is ahead of schedule....."live ammo" is a WHOLE different ballgame.....

 

Don't disagree in the least. I have zero hard data on this but I swear QB's drafted high who wait a bit tend to do better then those thrown to the wolves.

 

Carson Palmer, Jared Goff, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Eli etc.. all spent some amount of time on the bench. Obviously not a guarantee as shown by JP but especially with his talent and areas needed for improvement I have to think it would do wonders.

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Well Shady's exposure to him has been incredibly limited but nice to hear his comments.  I think this one is very telling, "I want to be part of that when he takes over eventually",  I bolded that, i am of the belief it is highly unlikely J Allen will be the starter to begin the season, he is going to need a lot of time to overtake AJ.

good catch by you.
and well spoken most all of it by Shady. seems like a bright guy honestly now that he has settled in as  Bills RB. if he has honest enthusiasm about where the Team is headed ? I am cool with that.
Let the Coaching take hold of Allen.
 this is kinda fun

4 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Hope you are right and I am one of the few that still has hope for Peterman, granted not much but hope.

Why not, let's hope  for all 3 to progress under new Coaching ? And for different reasons perhaps. Even Peterman : )

What the heck Roy. Tis the season of Hope. enjoy it.

 

 

[3rdand12]

30 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

If you say it backwards three times will he disappear?

Nope we tried that.

[Like A Mofo]

4 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Hope you are right and I am one of the few that still has hope for Peterman, granted not much but hope.

 

 

[Magox]

4 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Were we expecting Shady to say something like this?

 

"Looking at all the statistical indicators used to predict QB success in the NFL, I just don't see how the Bills view Allen as a future franchise QB.  The analytics and college video just don't support it."

 

Didn't think so.

 

Let's see how training camp unfolds.

 

 

 

So what you are saying is that you really don't know Shady's persona. Because of you did then you'd know he's a straight shooter.  But carry on with your crusade.

[stuvian]

I guess the endorsement of McCarron got lost in the mail

[Paulus]

Copy/paste

 

 

https://www.cover1.net/lesean-mccoy-buffalo-bills-josh-allen/ (an example of one of the multitude of articles on the same PC)

 

Idk, there is a video somewhere. Probably on the Bills official site. It gets old seeing the same press conference being used as material for so many posts, links and "stories." Seriously, it gets comical.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/LeSean-McCoy-Look-Forward-to-Having-a-Big-Year/b04e6531-07ce-41cc-904a-4725d4d2ae70 (link to the Press Conference so many of these posts/articles are based on)

[Dr. Fong]

I hope Allen barely sees the field this season. I want him to have time to develop and I want Beane to have time to build that offensive line. 

[Lfod]

I'll just trust what Shady is saying. Says nice things but he makes sure to keep it realistic and reeled in with the I'm not saying he's Jim Kelly comment.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Lfod

[3rdand12]

easy for me to think he is careful but straight up with his words

[2ForMacAdoo]

7 hours ago, MDFan said:

Be careful.  If you say his name three times he reappears.  That's one.

 

Savior Peterman. That's twice. 

[Troll Toll]

Is nobody going to comment on the fact that Shady insinuated that he thinks the team will likely get rid of him in the next year?

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

Is nobody going to comment on the fact that Shady insinuated that he thinks the team will likely get rid of him in the next year?

We didn't insinuate anything other than he knows that there are no guarantees in this business.

[RoyBatty is alive]

14 hours ago, corta765 said:

 

Don't disagree in the least. I have zero hard data on this but I swear QB's drafted high who wait a bit tend to do better then those thrown to the wolves.

 

Carson Palmer, Jared Goff, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Eli etc.. all spent some amount of time on the bench. Obviously not a guarantee as shown by JP but especially with his talent and areas needed for improvement I have to think it would do wonders.

Agree 100%. I would rather sacrifice an entire season than ruin a potential franchise QB.  I wasn't on board with going for Allen but now since you made the investment, maximize his potential to succeed. If our O LIne is dreadful that means were are not winning and fans will be screaming for Allen to start if he isnt.  See how "tough" McD and Benae are, dont throw Allen out there under that situation.

[eball]

27 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Agree 100%. I would rather sacrifice an entire season than ruin a potential franchise QB.  I wasn't on board with going for Allen but now since you made the investment, maximize his potential to succeed. If our O LIne is dreadful that means were are not winning and fans will be screaming for Allen to start if he isnt.  See how "tough" McD and Benae are, dont throw Allen out there under that situation.

 

A franchise guy is a franchise guy, and won't be "ruined" by playing a year behind a bad OL (and besides, Josh has already played two seasons behind a horrid OL).  I am a firm believer that QBs get better by playing.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

A franchise guy is a franchise guy, and won't be "ruined" by playing a year behind a bad OL (and besides, Josh has already played two seasons behind a horrid OL).  I am a firm believer that QBs get better by playing.

I go both ways with this and I think it really depends on the player.  A polished guy like Andrew Luck should play right away.  But Allen has some serious question marks and playing on a team with subpar talent can make him develop some bad habits.  David Carr set a nfl record for times sacked as a rookie.  It killed any chance of him developing.  

 

Im more than fine with Allen sitting.  It isn’t about this year.  It’s about his whole career.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

19 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Were we expecting Shady to say something like this?

 

"Looking at all the statistical indicators used to predict QB success in the NFL, I just don't see how the Bills view Allen as a future franchise QB.  The analytics and college video just don't support it."

 

Didn't think so.

 

Let's see how training camp unfolds.

 

 

 

Wet blanket anyone?

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

21 minutes ago, eball said:

 

A franchise guy is a franchise guy, and won't be "ruined" by playing a year behind a bad OL (and besides, Josh has already played two seasons behind a horrid OL).  I am a firm believer that QBs get better by playing.

Ask David Carr.

[Shaw66]

14 minutes ago, eball said:

 

A franchise guy is a franchise guy, and won't be "ruined" by playing a year behind a bad OL (and besides, Josh has already played two seasons behind a horrid OL).  I am a firm believer that QBs get better by playing.

I agree with this.   

 

Successful QBs are strong personalities.   They are true competitors, and they don't give up.  David Carr is the only guy who comes to mind who may have been ruined by starting early.

 

Here are six guys who started as rookies, either full time or part time.    Does anyone believe they succeeded or didn't succeed because they started too early?    JP Losman, Troy Aikman, Trent Edwards, Peyton Manning, EJ Manuel, Steve Young.     Great QBs are not ruined by being crappy as rookies, and crappy quarterbacks are crappy, whether they start immediately or ride the bench for a while.  

 

Are there exceptions?   Maybe, but I'm hard pressed to think of one.   Who is the guy we look at and think "what a shame!  He would have been a Hall of Famer if only he hadn't started as a rookie."?   Who is that guy?   You want to make an argument that it's David Carr?   Well, okay, you're telling me his psyche was injured so badly by starting that he failed instead of succeeding?   I'd bet that if you could talk to Young or Aikman or Manning, talk to them privately, each would say that's BS.  Each would say football is a tough occupation, maybe the toughest.   You've got to have the guts to fight your way through adversity, and if you don't have the guts, the determination, you aren't going to make it.   

 

If Allen is the best QB coming out of preseason, he should start.   The Bills should not leave him on the bench just because they're worried that he might not be able to deal with failure.   The best guy plays.  Why?  1.  Because he earned it.  2.  Because the rest of the team knows who the best guy is, and the rest of the team wants to win.  They want to go on the field with the best guy.   If the best guy is Allen, he plays.  

[eball]

12 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Ask David Carr.

 

Read @Shaw66's response below yours.  He said it better than I probably would have.

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Ask David Carr.

Ask any NFL player this:   

 

If a guy plays in the NFL for EVEVEN seasons and never succeeds as a starter, what does it say about the guy?   

 

Every NFL player will tell you that he wasn't good enough to be a starter.    

 

What are you trying to tell us?   That in FOUR seasons as a starter after taking a beating as a rookie, Carr couldn't figure out how to be an effective starter because he was still afraid of the pass rush?    That may be true; maybe he never could get comfortable in the pocket.   What would Rickie Incognito say about that?   What would Tom Brady say about that?   What would Aaron Williams say about that?   What would Steve Young say about that?    What would ANY NFL player say about that?   Every NFL player would say "suck it up."   

 

If you don't have the guts to overcome the adversity that the NFL gives every player, every day, you aren't good enough to play in the league.   

[Shaw66]

16 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Read @Shaw66's response below yours.  He said it better than I probably would have.

Thanks.   I responded directly, too. 

 

I mean, maybe David Carr is the exception, but I doubt it.    The guy I know is Trent Edwards.   Edwards really looked like he knew what he was doing in the weeks before his concussion.   After that, he was never the same.   In one sense, the concussion ruined his career.    But not really - Edwards simply didn't have what it takes.   

 

I've seen Jim Kelly and Matt Stafford throw game-winning touchdowns minutes after having been unconscious on the field.   Their concussions didn't ruin their careers.    Why not?   Because those are real men, tougher than anything I can imagine.   Those are guys you want beside on the battlefield when live bullets are flying.   

 

Ask Kyle Williams this question:   You're in a fox hole on Guadalcanal Island, pinned down by 20,000 Japanese soldiers.   Who do you want next to you?   Trent Edwards or Jim Kelly?    

 

David Carr is just another first-round QB who failed, not some guy the NFL failed.   The NFL tests toughness, every day, and David Carr wasn't tough enough.  

 

Does anyone believe this:   Aaron Maybin would have been a star, if only he hadn't been thrust into the NFL so quickly.    He's a great athlete, right, so he it must be that the NFL screwed up somehow.   No, nobody believes that.   Aaron Maybin wasn't tough enough.   He fell about 300,000 miles short in the toughness category.   

 

The NFL is totally unforgiving.   Either you measure up, or you don't.    The only guys who can complain are the guys who never got a real shot to show what they can do.   There aren't many of those.   David Carr is certainly NOT one of those.  David Carr started for five seasons and NEVER had a passer rating better than Tyrod Taylor's WORST season in BUFFALO.   Don't tell me David Carr was better than Tyrod Taylor., and certainly don't tell me he would have been a franchise QB if only he hadn't had a lousy offensive line as a rookie.     

[RoyBatty is alive]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Ask any NFL player this:   

 

If a guy plays in the NFL for EVEVEN seasons and never succeeds as a starter, what does it say about the guy?   

 

Every NFL player will tell you that he wasn't good enough to be a starter.    

 

What are you trying to tell us?   That in FOUR seasons as a starter after taking a beating as a rookie, Carr couldn't figure out how to be an effective starter because he was still afraid of the pass rush?    That may be true; maybe he never could get comfortable in the pocket.   What would Rickie Incognito say about that?   What would Tom Brady say about that?   What would Aaron Williams say about that?   What would Steve Young say about that?    What would ANY NFL player say about that?   Every NFL player would say "suck it up."   

 

If you don't have the guts to overcome the adversity that the NFL gives every player, every day, you aren't good enough to play in the league.   

Living in Houston I , unfortunately watched a lot, lot of David Carr.  His O Line was a joke and he often had no shot at success at all,  The physical and mental toll on the man had to be enormous.  Yes I understand the macho he isn't tough enough to play in the NFL crap but there are limits to the amount of  punishment a man can take without having an impact.  Listen to Aikman's (who you used as an example in your prior post) interviews sometimes about after his disastrous first year, he said he was close to quitting football.

 

Is David Carr an extreme example, probably hwe is just the most painfully obvious, are their other "David Carr's" out these, that never had the chance to succeed, probably we just dont know who could have succeeded and didnt.  Forget all the "tough guy non-snese, what about the injury risk, the concussions, those are REAL concerns and I dont care how "tough" you are mentally.  You told me to  ask Aaron Williams , why dont you ask him why he stopped playing at the age of 26.

 

Ask Brady, yeah great analogy there.  David Carr took more hits in his rookie year than Brady has taken in his entire career.  Brady, Mr Tough guy in the NFL that often runs ways from players after they intercept his balls.