Opinions on why we passed on Rosen?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

1) Totally agree

2) Tyrod's poor performance the previous two games warranted that desperate move

3) Totally agree

4) He may not be the #2 and is not a bad RB

5) Work in progress.  Better QB makes the WRs look better.

 

Help me out here - did we change WR coach in the off season or we still got the same guy?  I seem to remember a change, but having memory issues

 

On the WR, I don't think you can get away from the finding that our WR had the poorest, or among the poorest, separation from DB in the league this year.

It's hard for a better QB to make the WR look better if they can't achieve separation.  We downgraded on WR, and we haven't done much work to change that (yet).

 

On point 2, we have to agree to disagree. 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

I thought that comment was a bit strange.  Rosen is going to show the previous 9 teams that didn't draft him that they screwed up by defeating them on the field on a consistent basis?  First of all, Josh, there were only 8 teams picking before the Cardinals as Cleveland drafted twice.  Second, apparently, the Giants, Broncos, Colts, Bears, and 49ers didn't want or need a QB so that just leaves 3 teams that you can seek your revenge on.  And since they are all AFC teams and you are on an NFC team, you only get to play them once every four years.  In summation, you may be concussed out of the league by the Rams D-line before you even get to play the Bills, Browns, or Jets.  What an insufferable, self-absorbed, d-bag he is.

 

Rosen may view it as, a team could (in theory) have traded to #4, so 9 teams.  I cut him some slack there.  I think he felt he had excellent visits at 2 teams which passed him up (Jets and Bills) and was (understandably) a bit shaken.

 

No one has ever said great athletes all have sterling personalities.  Quite a few, by all accounts, are self-absorbed douchebags.  (of course, the converse isn't necessarily true)

 

Anyway, I find it curious that when Mayfield makes ultra-competitive, maybe arrogant statements (he's the guy to turn the Browns around etc) he's fiery and shows passion for the game and carries a motivational chip on his shoulder.  When Rosen does similar, he's douchy and self absorbed.  It seems like a double standard, and somewhat irrelevant too.

 

It is quite possible that Rosen is douchy, self-absorbed, and will make an excellent NFL QB.  But, he won't do it here so my interest is abstract.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, ganesh said:

Does this mean that Rosen will need a stud OL to be successful in the NFL?

 

Most QB need a stud OL to be successful in the NFL.  Anyone who thinks Keenum, Foles, or Prescott look like they did behind our OL is dreamin'

[Ittakestime]

Buffalo wasn't the only QB needy team to pass on Rosen.

 

Let's be honest here, people love to crap on Allen's completion %, but Rosen's wasn't that much better.

[Mark92]

Any college QB who has already had concussion issues is an instant red flag.  Yes the kid is talented but if he misses half the season and has his career cut short what's the point?  

[C.Biscuit97]

Cause our offensive player evaluation is awful and our owner feel in love.

Edited April 29, 2018 by C.Biscuit97

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

I mean look...

You want you Head Coach And Starting Quarterback to be on the same page.

 

Rosen and McDermott wouldn’t even be able to agree on God’s specific influence in the outcome of the game.

 

McDermott would give all the credit to God.

Rosen would give all the credit to himself and teammates and coaches.

 

and imagine when McDermott dropped to his knees after the Dalton Touchdown!

 

Rosen would probably say, “lose a contact coach?  What you doing down there?”

Edited April 29, 2018 by RalphWilson'sNewWar

[Hapless Bills Fan]

49 minutes ago, Mark92 said:

Any college QB who has already had concussion issues is an instant red flag.  Yes the kid is talented but if he misses half the season and has his career cut short what's the point?  

 

So the Browns should have red-flagged Mayfield (two concussions in 3 games in 2016)?

[Rosen-not-Chosen]

9 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

You're free to be a Cardinals fan if you like Rosen that much and dislike our front office just as equally.

 

I'm not a Cardinals fan, I'm a Bills fan.

 

I'm not a Pegula, Beane or McDermott fan, I'm a Bills fans, was a Bills fan long before any of them showed up.

 

Of course we have to wait to see how it turns out, but as of now, I'm saying the picked the wrong QB, epic fail.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

I mean look...

You want you Head Coach And Starting Quarterback to be on the same page.

 

Rosen and McDermott wouldn’t even be able to agree on God’s specific influence in the outcome of the game.

 

McDermott would give all the credit to God.

Rosen would give all the credit to himself and teammates and coaches.

 

and imagine when McDermott dropped to his knees after the Dalton Touchdown!

 

Rosen would probably say, “lose a contact coach?  What you doing down there?”

 

I would hope Beane (and McDermott) are not using religious beliefs as a screening factor for evaluating player talent.

 

IMO it's stump simple from looking at the rest of the draft.  Beane puts a strong weight on high physical attributes vs player development, and expects our coaches to be able to develop the guys football chops and get a better player in the end.  It's not clear to me that's the same way McDermott weights, but as long as he's willing to roll with it we're fine.

[stinky finger]

On 4/27/2018 at 3:17 PM, PastaJoe said:

Pegulas, like many of the owners as evidenced by the audio of their meeting, are afraid of players who will publicly take a stand for positive social justice by taking a knee or speaking out. Fortunately there are a couple, who like the NBA, are not afraid of a crazy tweet or misunderstanding fans and don’t let it cloud their judgement on who’s the best on-field talent.

 

Could be - or - more likely, they thought Allen is a better prospect.

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I would hope Beane (and McDermott) are not using religious beliefs as a screening factor for evaluating player talent.

 

IMO it's stump simple from looking at the rest of the draft.  Beane puts a strong weight on high physical attributes vs player development, and expects our coaches to be able to develop the guys football chops and get a better player in the end.  It's not clear to me that's the same way McDermott weights, but as long as he's willing to roll with it we're fine.

I’m mostly kidding.

although I wouldn’t rule out that they have to feel a personality connection.  You have to want to go to work with these players everyday.  Not saying it was a religious decision entirely though.

 

But fun fact

one of McDermott’s first decisions as Head Coach was to fire the Team Chaplain last season.

[WideRightRevenge]

Rosen ... with the Cardinals OL ... 52 sacks allowed in 2017 ... facing Denver as well (hello Mr. Chubb) ... the kid is toast ... that said .. glad the Cardinals jumped the fish and picked him.   Granted he was looking at bigger picture .. but this kid sat out his last Bowl Game vs. taking the field with teammates .. not the leader I want in WNY .. good riddance.

[Mojo44]

Rosen’s “personality” issues were non-issues as far as the bills are concerned. That had nothing to do with their choice. Think about it, if they felt that he was the best quarterback available to lead them to a Super Bowl they’re going to take him regardless of the “personality” issues.

 

The whole choice was based, simply, and who is positives and potentials they like the best. Rosen is a terrific prospect and may end up being great. The same is true for Allen. They just liked Allen’s positives better. That’s it!

[george c]

I think Terry Pegula understands that if a kid is super rich, he may retire early instead of taking repeated blows to the noggin. 

Rosen is thin, and probably wouldn’t survive the NFL, and I am sure his mother will always whisper in his ear “honey, you don’t need this”...

[17 Josh Allen]

He got passed over because Allen is the better QB and was the best QB in this draft bar none. Rosen is going to find that he is not going to get his way in the NFL. He needs an attitude adjustment. Also he already failed his first test when he had a epic melt down on being the 4th QB drafted. How did Allen do on his first test. He stood up and took responsibility for his texts. He said it was on him and he showed remorse. Also Allen did not go to a private upscale high school football program and play at the posh UCLA. Allen did not get everything handed to him, he had to earn it the hard way. No he played 8 man football in High School. He wrote 1000 colleges and got turned down. Basically his own home town college Fresno State turned him down twice. Then 1 year of Jr college football with crappy coaching.Then got lucky ? and finally got a break. Went to Wyoming and got some coaching.

 

His statistics were as good as Carson Wentz but Allen did it in 15 less games then Wentz. All the while getting them to 2 bowl games. Wyoming hardly ever gets into Bowl games. His senior year he was running for his life behind a poor offensive line and still almost completed 60 percent. Then proceeds to hire and work with Jordon Palmer and he helps him correct his flaws with his foot work. He then proceeds to have a great bowl game and senior bowl where he completes almost 70 percent of his passes and 2TD’s and is the player of the game. I would say this is the sort of player I want on the Buffalo Bills, a guy who is willing to take responsibility for his actions. A guy who is humble and is about being part of the team concept. His arm talent is Rogers, Elway and Farve like. He is mobile and can move and throw on the run like Rogers. He is also smart he scored the best on the Wonderlic test 37. He is coachable and willing to listen. Plus Beane told you what he was looking for in a QB he said it out loud and signaled that to everyone in the media what he would be trying to do. He also said he would trade up to do it. NYG never were going to trade out of the 2 spot. Cleveland like wise at 4. 

 

 

So Beane makes a deal with Denver to get Allen which would cost him both number ones. That the deal falls through because chubb falls to Denver. So Bills keep trying and hit pay dirt at 7 with Tampa. This is really where it gets interesting. Most thought it would be Rosen but if you had been listening to Beane through the whole process there was never a chance he would take Rosen over Allen because Allen fit the Can Newton profile he is on board with. Beane told us what his QB model and what he would do when it came time to draft. Do you know how I know Beane got this right. Marv Levy once said when you start listening to the fans on personal decisions and team strategy you basically become in effective and need to go or it will get you fired. He said you go with your convictions and you stay strong. Also Bill Polian also said these things when criticized by the media.

 

 

I seem to recall those 2 guys Levi and Polian were here under the most amazing run in team history. Basically winning more games in the 1990’s then any team in Football. I think I will side with GM Beane and coach Mcdermott. After 17 years they did something no coach or GM was able to do. Get us into the playoffs. They got rid of players that did not fit their program even while they were being criticized in the media and by fans. People were up in arms as one player after another was shown the door. Boy who does this sound like. Sounds like Marv Levy and Bill Polian to me. I think we’re in good hands people. Success is right around the corner and lots of winning will take place. I’m hoping you Rosen fans can get over your disappointment and come along for the ride. There is still room on the Allen train ? hop aboard before it leaves the station. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Thurmanator 12074

[starrymessenger]

43 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

Rosen’s “personality” issues were non-issues as far as the bills are concerned. That had nothing to do with their choice. Think about it, if they felt that he was the best quarterback available to lead them to a Super Bowl they’re going to take him regardless of the “personality” issues.

 

The whole choice was based, simply, and who is positives and potentials they like the best. Rosen is a terrific prospect and may end up being great. The same is true for Allen. They just liked Allen’s positives better. That’s it!

 

This is what I also want to believe and I think it's probably the case. Having said that I do acknowledge the possibility that some NFL coaches and assistants are old school if not downright reactionary and could feel threatened by a guy with Rosen's personality. JMO but while a player's character is an important box to check when making a decision, I doubt that too much emphasis should be placed on a player's personality as such. Stereotypes are generalizations and therefore are to be taken with a grain of salt when evaluating an individual, but they can be valid for what they are - generalizations. I mean would anyone be shocked and surprised to discover that a WR was a "diva" and a "flake"? Or that a QB was a conceited, arrogant prick? Many of the best players in both position groups are exactly that. An organization that can deal with that is a lot further ahead than one that cannot. 

I wanted Rosen but unlike many of his detractors I always saw Allen as a legitimate first round talent with a very high ceiling. Too me there is a lot to like there. So I can't be too upset with Beane taking a bona fide first round QB prospect in the first round. 

The one thing I know for sure is that going forward Allen, Rosen and Beane are now all joined at the hip. Beane has made his decision but a close eye will be kept on how these players perform in judging Beane. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by starrymessenger

[Andy1]

You got it right Thurminator - except he was at Jr. college only 1 year. I think Bills brass didn't think that Rosens personality and desires were a match for Buffalo. In addition to their concerns of his long-term durability. He is probably a great passer when the pocket is safe, but when it breaks down around him he's done. 

 

What I've noticed is that former NFL players - Phil Simms, Trent Dilfer, Chris Carter seem to love Allen. Stats geeks who haven't played the game are his critics. I think he can be really special., He reminds me of a young, less refined John Elway. We all need patience with Bills coaches and not rush the kid onto the field too soon. Let him develop properly. We can go 0-16 this year, just don't crew up the development of Allen. 

[swnybillsfan]

On 4/27/2018 at 2:38 PM, PIZ said:

They didn't pass on Rosen.  They liked Allen better.

i think this is it. Allen has the advantage in all the measurable categories, and i think they love his attitude. he also seems intelligent. coming from a farm family and knowing all about hard work is probably also a positive. he seems very aware of the areas he needs to improve in, and i would bet that in the meetings with the team, he seemed very genuine, coachable, smart, and ready to get after it. he has the qualities you can't teach,  and i bet the staff believes they can correct the weaknesses.

[17 Josh Allen]

12 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

You got it right Thurminator - except he was at Jr. college only 1 year. I think Bills brass didn't think that Rosens personality and desires were a match for Buffalo. In addition to their concerns of his long-term durability. He is probably a great passer when the pocket is safe, but when it breaks down around him he's done. 

 

What I've noticed is that former NFL players - Phil Simms, Trent Dilfer, Chris Carter seem to love Allen. Stats geeks who haven't played the game are his critics. I think he can be really special., He reminds me of a young, less refined John Elway. We all need patience with Bills coaches and not rush the kid onto the field too soon. Let him develop properly. We can go 0-16 this year, just don't crew up the development of Allen. 

you are spot on with this. loved this post, my onw eyes do not lie to me. I’m not looking at stats when I watch these 2 guys play. I look at what is going on In front of them and what they have to deal with. Allen is a special talent with the arm talent that may be the best ever coming out of college. Rosen is also good but has limitations 

moving around or out side the pocket. Allen has no limits. Roll him out left or right. Do RPO plays. Play from the pocket. Larger stronger body and most importantly a team first player. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Thurmanator 12074

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

He got passed over because Allen is the better QB and was the best QB in this draft bar none.

 

Now that Allen is a Bill, I sincerely hope he becomes the best NFL QB in this draft bar none.   He seems to be a smart, hardworking kid and I'm pulling for him.

 

But it's kind of hard to construct a cogent and persuasive argument for that "Best QB in the draft bar none" thing based upon college metrics - game film, completion percentage, etc.

 

I'm not sure what you're seeing as "statistics as good as Carson Wentz".  Certainly not completion percentage.

 

21 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

So Beane makes a deal with Denver to get Allen which would cost him both number ones. That the deal falls through because chubb falls to Denver. So Bills keep trying and hit pay dirt at 7 with Tampa. This is really where it gets interesting. Most thought it would be Rosen but if you had been listening to Beane through the whole process there was never a chance he would take Rosen over Allen because Allen fit the Can Newton profile he is on board with. Beane told us what his QB model he wanted would draft. 

 

I think you're correct here.  Clearly Beane places a high weight on sheer athletic potential - I think we see that in his other draft picks - Beane has multiple times referred to Cam Newton as a franchise QB so he clearly believes in him and values his style of play.  And several evaluators have commented about Wyoming having "Carolina-like" elements in their offense including designed runs.

 

Whether Beane made the correct choice or not, will be shown in the upcoming seasons.  I personally weight demonstrated throwing ability and accuracy higher for QB.  This is based upon hard experience.  I thought Fitzpatrick could improve his accuracy.  Then I thought EJ Manuel could improve his accuracy.  I was wrong, wrong both times.  Now I'll hope Allen can improve his accuracy.  Third time's the charm?

 

Go Bills!

[Augie]

13 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

You got it right Thurminator - except he was at Jr. college only 1 year. I think Bills brass didn't think that Rosens personality and desires were a match for Buffalo. In addition to their concerns of his long-term durability. He is probably a great passer when the pocket is safe, but when it breaks down around him he's done. 

 

What I've noticed is that former NFL players - Phil Simms, Trent Dilfer, Chris Carter seem to love Allen. Stats geeks who haven't played the game are his critics. I think he can be really special., He reminds me of a young, less refined John Elway. We all need patience with Bills coaches and not rush the kid onto the field too soon. Let him develop properly. We can go 0-16 this year, just don't crew up the development of Allen. 

 

I don’t think this is nitpicking, but total yards is about the ONLY area where the stats are even close. Wentz had a much better completion percentage (64 vs 56), better YPA, much better TD/Int ration, better passer rating, etc. You lose credibility if you try to say his stats were just as good - they were not. Now, I’m not saying Allen can’t be the guy, I’m just saying if you make stuff up you might get corrected. 

 

I hope they take their time with Allen, and with better coaching and better surrounding talent he can become our Franchise QB. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Augie

[Alphadawg7]

On 4/27/2018 at 11:38 AM, PIZ said:

They didn't pass on Rosen.  They liked Allen better.

 

Amazing how hard it is for people to understand the simplicity of this fact.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

What I've noticed is that former NFL players - Phil Simms, Trent Dilfer, Chris Carter seem to love Allen. Stats geeks who haven't played the game are his critics

 

Troy Aikman, who I believe may be a former NFL player and not a stats geek - seemed fairly puzzled by the selection of Allen over Rosen during the draft.

Trent Dilfer sees a lot of potential, but he also has criticism and caveats:

"Dilfer raved about Josh Allen’s traits and compared the Wyoming product to a “probably even more powerful” version of Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, but cautioned that he’s still a work in progress. “He has everything 1980s and 1990s football wanted in a quarterback,” Dilfer said. “He is big, strong, athletic, huge arm, tough physically, mentally. I mean, he’s got the trait makeup. "He’s not a great player yet. He needs to learn how to play the game better. What I’ve been talking about him is he’s a 650-horsepower engine that doesn’t have the car built around to sustain that horsepower. He needs to build the automobile."

 

When you compare that to what he say about Darnold, Mayfield, and Rosen, I'm not sure it sounds like "love".

 

I don't want to be that civet who gets in between you and your cappuchino, and I'm pulling for Allen now that he's a Bill, but I think it is important to keep grounded.

[17 Josh Allen]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

I don’t think this is nitpicking, but total yards is about the ONLY area where the stats are even close. Wentz had a much better completion percentage (64 vs 56), better YPA, much better TD/Int ration, better passer rating, etc. You lose credibility if you try to say his stats were just as good - they were not. Now, I’m not saying Allen can’t be the guy, I’m just saying if you make stuff up you might get corrected. 

Carson Wentz 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	North Dakota State					392	612	64.1	5115	8.4	8.8	45	14	153.9
2012	North Dakota State	MVC	FR	QB	8	12	16	75.0	144	9.0	11.5	2	0	191.9
2013	North Dakota State	MVC	SO	QB	11	22	30	73.3	209	7.0	7.6	1	0	142.9
2014	North Dakota State	MVC	JR	QB	16	228	358	63.7	3111	8.7	8.8	25	10	154.1
2015	North Dakota State	MVC	SR	QB	7	130	208	62.5	1651	7.9	8.7	17	4	152.3

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Josh allen

 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Wyoming					365	649	56.2	5066	7.8	7.7	44	21	137.7
2015	Wyoming	MWC	SO	QB	2	4	6	66.7	51	8.5	8.5	0	0	138.1
*2016	Wyoming	MWC	SO	QB	14	209	373	56.0	3203	8.6	8.3	28	15	144.9
*2017	Wyoming	MWC	JR	QB	11	152	270	56.3	1812	6.7	6.9	16	6	127.8

Josh Allen one less TD then Wentz he played 15 less games also 100 less passing yards basically then Wentz again in 15 less games. Also Wentz played on a better team with better offensive line. So yes what would or could  Allen have done with 15 more games of stats.  I think probably a lot more. I will take Allen every time. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Thurmanator 12074

[Andy1]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Troy Aikman, who I believe may be a former NFL player and not a stats geek - seemed fairly puzzled by the selection of Allen over Rosen during the draft.

Trent Dilfer sees a lot of potential, but he also has criticism and caveats:

"Dilfer raved about Josh Allen’s traits and compared the Wyoming product to a “probably even more powerful” version of Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, but cautioned that he’s still a work in progress. “He has everything 1980s and 1990s football wanted in a quarterback,” Dilfer said. “He is big, strong, athletic, huge arm, tough physically, mentally. I mean, he’s got the trait makeup. "He’s not a great player yet. He needs to learn how to play the game better. What I’ve been talking about him is he’s a 650-horsepower engine that doesn’t have the car built around to sustain that horsepower. He needs to build the automobile."

 

When you compare that to what he say about Darnold, Mayfield, and Rosen, I'm not sure it sounds like "love".

 

I don't want to be that civet who gets in between you and your cappuchino, and I'm pulling for Allen now that he's a Bill, but I think it is important to keep grounded.

Fair point there. I am by nature an optimist - how can I not be as a Bills fan. All we can do is wait and hope the kid is the real deal. If people don't like him, they can go buy a red and white Rosen jersey. 

9 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

Carson Wentz 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	North Dakota State					392	612	64.1	5115	8.4	8.8	45	14	153.9
2012	North Dakota State	MVC	FR	QB	8	12	16	75.0	144	9.0	11.5	2	0	191.9
2013	North Dakota State	MVC	SO	QB	11	22	30	73.3	209	7.0	7.6	1	0	142.9
2014	North Dakota State	MVC	JR	QB	16	228	358	63.7	3111	8.7	8.8	25	10	154.1
2015	North Dakota State	MVC	SR	QB	7	130	208	62.5	1651	7.9	8.7	17	4	152.3

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Josh allen

 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Wyoming					365	649	56.2	5066	7.8	7.7	44	21	137.7
2015	Wyoming	MWC	SO	QB	2	4	6	66.7	51	8.5	8.5	0	0	138.1
*2016	Wyoming	MWC	SO	QB	14	209	373	56.0	3203	8.6	8.3	28	15	144.9
*2017	Wyoming	MWC	JR	QB	11	152	270	56.3	1812	6.7	6.9	16	6	127.8

Josh Allen one less TD then Wentz he played 15 less games also 100 less passing yards basically then Wentz again in 15 less games. Also wentz played on a better team with better offensive line. So yes what would have Allen done with 15 more games of stats.  I will take Allen every time. 

Wow! Never knew that. i never noticed he played 15 fewer games than Wentz. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Andy1

[Scorp83]

On 4/27/2018 at 2:34 PM, Klaista2k said:

Rosen was talked about as probably the best pure pocket quarterback in the draft. He was available for the Bills to grab but they passed. 

Any options on why exactly we didn't like him?

 

-Injury concerns?

-Attitude?

-Concerns about playing in the cold weather?

-Was he just overrated in general?

 

Thoughts?

Because most of the league along with the Bills was sold pie in the sky

[PIZ]

24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Amazing how hard it is for people to understand the simplicity of this fact.

 

Thank goodness they traded up and chose Josh Allen over Josh Rosen.  Can you imagine the posts if say Miami traded up and got Rosen and then the Bills were left with no one accept for Allen?  I suppose then though, they would be saying we should have drafted Lamar Jackson.

 

I didn't want Josh Allen before the draft, but now that he is a Bill, I couldn't be happier.  The more I read about him, and the more interviews I see of him, the more I see what Beane, McDermott, and the Pegulas see.

 

 

 

[LeGOATski]

I haven't read through this whole thread and this has probably been mentioned already, so apologies if I'm beating a dead horse.

 

The #1 reason they chose Allen over Rosen, IMO:

 

Coachability

 

In his post-draft PC, Beane basically answered this question as he stated the following:

 

All these QBs have some flaws, so it depends on what you can deal with. Josh Allen's personal makeup and character will allow him to improve on his flaws and make corrections.

 

While watching his pro day, Daniel Jeremiah said that Allen has made the most improvement (for QB in his process leading up to the draft) than anyone he's ever seen. This is a testament to what Bean said.

 

Allen has all the physical tools needed to succeed, so there is nothing they need to compensate for there (basically, reason #2 for drafting him). At the end of the day, as long as Allen commits himself to the process and utilizes everything he learns, which they believe he will, then they also believe that he will reach his potential. A potential that is as great, if not greater, than any QB in this class and possibly ever.

Edited April 29, 2018 by LeGOATski

[Oregonbillsfan]

Rosen is one concussion away from being Trent Edwards.

[Peace Frog]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Rosen may view it as, a team could (in theory) have traded to #4, so 9 teams.  I cut him some slack there.  I think he felt he had excellent visits at 2 teams which passed him up (Jets and Bills) and was (understandably) a bit shaken.

 

No one has ever said great athletes all have sterling personalities.  Quite a few, by all accounts, are self-absorbed douchebags.  (of course, the converse isn't necessarily true)

 

Anyway, I find it curious that when Mayfield makes ultra-competitive, maybe arrogant statements (he's the guy to turn the Browns around etc) he's fiery and shows passion for the game and carries a motivational chip on his shoulder.  When Rosen does similar, he's douchy and self absorbed.  It seems like a double standard, and somewhat irrelevant too.

 

It is quite possible that Rosen is douchy, self-absorbed, and will make an excellent NFL QB.  But, he won't do it here so my interest is abstract.

 

I have no double standard in that regard.  Mayfield is no different than Rosen in that category and it's something that I don't like in pro athletes.  The epitome of ideal personality in a player I think would be Kyle Williams and Fred Jackson.  Confident, but not arrogant.

3 hours ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

 

I'm not a Cardinals fan, I'm a Bills fan.

 

I'm not a Pegula, Beane or McDermott fan, I'm a Bills fans, was a Bills fan long before any of them showed up.

 

Of course we have to wait to see how it turns out, but as of now, I'm saying the picked the wrong QB, epic fail.

Fair enough.  I'm saying we picked the right QB, epic success.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Peace Frog said:

I have no double standard in that regard.  Mayfield is no different than Rosen in that category and it's something that I don't like in pro athletes.  The epitome of ideal personality in a player I think would be Kyle Williams and Fred Jackson.  Confident, but not arrogant.

 

Fair enough.  I don't mean you specifically.  But I do see it (a double standard) with regard to Rosen vs Mayfield in the media and with many fans.

 

I love me some FredEx.  Obviously I also got some KW love going down.  But to be fair, they are the epitome of the underdog - the guys who found success in the NFL only after working thier a**es off for years to get where they were. 

 

Mayfield was a walk-on, but he shot to the top of his team pretty quickly.  Rosen was "Chosen Rosen" from HS on.  I think it's harder for young men who get a lot of success and attention early to stay on the "confident" side of that "confident/arrogant" line.

[Foxx]

i think it's pretty obvious. the Bills are severly allergic to Affluenza.

[mob16151]

Josh Rosen to me seem"s like Kevin Kolb V2.0. And we all saw how that story worked out for buffalo.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Oregonbillsfan said:

Rosen is one concussion away from being Trent Edwards.

 

That was my #1 concern, followed by his personality/attitude. Having said that, he’s already a polished QB. Like everything else, we’ll have to wait and see. 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

Carson Wentz 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	North Dakota State					392	612	64.1	5115	8.4	8.8	45	14	153.9
2012	North Dakota State	MVC	FR	QB	8	12	16	75.0	144	9.0	11.5	2	0	191.9
2013	North Dakota State	MVC	SO	QB	11	22	30	73.3	209	7.0	7.6	1	0	142.9
2014	North Dakota State	MVC	JR	QB	16	228	358	63.7	3111	8.7	8.8	25	10	154.1
2015	North Dakota State	MVC	SR	QB	7	130	208	62.5	1651	7.9	8.7	17	4	152.3

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Josh allen

 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Wyoming					365	649	56.2	5066	7.8	7.7	44	21	137.7
2015	Wyoming	MWC	SO	QB	2	4	6	66.7	51	8.5	8.5	0	0	138.1
*2016	Wyoming	MWC	SO	QB	14	209	373	56.0	3203	8.6	8.3	28	15	144.9
*2017	Wyoming	MWC	JR	QB	11	152	270	56.3	1812	6.7	6.9	16	6	127.8

Josh Allen one less TD then Wentz he played 15 less games also 100 less passing yards basically then Wentz again in 15 less games. Also Wentz played on a better team with better offensive line. So yes what would or could  Allen have done with 15 more games of stats.  I think probably a lot more. I will take Allen every time. 

 

Geez, I really didn’t mean to make you angry, but thank you for making my point with the above charts I was too lazy to post. I’ll give you the TD total is similar as well as the yards. HOW he got these volume numbers is also important. The efficiency numbers such as completion %, YPA, QB rating, TD/INT ratio are very important. 

 

More important than racking up more yards and TD’s with another season (at least in my mind), is how he might have used an additional year to hone his skills and make himself more efficient. I’m not sure how much it would have helped, because I’m unsure of the quality of coaching and the supporting cast was weak (as was the competition for the most part, to be fair and balanced). 

 

Look, I’m not an Allen hater at all and I’m trying to get fully on board. He is our QB. I’m just not going to pretend Allen and Wentz had the same skill set coming out.  Wentz was able to step in and quickly achieve a POY level of play. Everybody acknowledges Allen needs some time to develop his skills. That’s not being negative, just facing ALL the facts. 

[C.Biscuit97]

52 minutes ago, Foxx said:

i think it's pretty obvious. the Bills are severly allergic to Affluenza.

They just picked a couple sons of nfl players.

[Bangarang]

3 hours ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

Carson Wentz 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	North Dakota State					392	612	64.1	5115	8.4	8.8	45	14	153.9
2012	North Dakota State	MVC	FR	QB	8	12	16	75.0	144	9.0	11.5	2	0	191.9
2013	North Dakota State	MVC	SO	QB	11	22	30	73.3	209	7.0	7.6	1	0	142.9
2014	North Dakota State	MVC	JR	QB	16	228	358	63.7	3111	8.7	8.8	25	10	154.1
2015	North Dakota State	MVC	SR	QB	7	130	208	62.5	1651	7.9	8.7	17	4	152.3

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Josh allen

 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Wyoming					365	649	56.2	5066	7.8	7.7	44	21	137.7
2015	Wyoming	MWC	SO	QB	2	4	6	66.7	51	8.5	8.5	0	0	138.1
*2016	Wyoming	MWC	SO	QB	14	209	373	56.0	3203	8.6	8.3	28	15	144.9
*2017	Wyoming	MWC	JR	QB	11	152	270	56.3	1812	6.7	6.9	16	6	127.8

Josh Allen one less TD then Wentz he played 15 less games also 100 less passing yards basically then Wentz again in 15 less games. Also Wentz played on a better team with better offensive line. So yes what would or could  Allen have done with 15 more games of stats.  I think probably a lot more. I will take Allen every time. 

 

You keep bringing up the amount of games Wentz played compared to Allen but Allen actually finished his college career with more pass attempts..

Edited April 29, 2018 by Bangarang

[Wayne Arnold]

Maybe Conor McDermott told them that Rosen is a dick and not a leader.

[SoTier]

Beane & Company fell for the lure of a big QB with a big arm.