The Lamar Jackson Sandbag

[TC in St. Louis]

Because of what DeShaun Watson did last year....in my opinion everybody is pretending that they aren't going to draft Lamar Jackson.  The guy is a stud.  Lightning fast, big arm, a defensive coordinator's nightmare.  Nobody's talking about him, but I'm thinking he's going early.  I don't know about top 5, that seems dumb.  But Houston found a STAR in Watson, and Lamar is a faster, more explosive player.  According to the internet, Watson ran a 4.66, and Jackson a 4.34.  

 

Tyrod was a scary asset as a Bill.  His main problem was his tendency to panic in the pocket and not be able to find receivers.  But his talent made him a tradable asset and Cleveland's number one guy right now.  

 

If the Bills continue to participate in this misdirection, and he's there at 12 say Hello Lamar.  Welcome to the Bills.

[Paul Costa]

Don’t see this as a “ process “ move ?

[DCOrange]

I hope so, but I don't have much faith that the Bills want him in all honesty. I'd love to find out that all of the attention they've given other QBs was just a smokescreen, but it seems unlikely.

[KDIGGZ]

he will be good, if you want that kind of QB.  what scrambling QB has ever been successful for long though?  let's say he is Mike Vick.  ok, was Vick really that great?  maybe you can have a couple of good seasons but injuries and failure to develop as a pocket passer and these types of QB's are out of the league quick

[YoloinOhio]

I love him but I don’t think the Bills do. I don’t see it as any kind of smokescreen either. 

[BigBuff423]

I've got no issue with Drafting Lamar at 12 because he is a MUCH better pocket passer than some fans give him credit for. I've said it for over a month now, but the video on him is good about being in the pocket and his accuracy completion % is at 59.1%, just .09% shy of the benchmark 60% most say is needed to be considered a truly viable QB prospect going into the NFL. When you add in the fact that out of the top 6 his receivers had the highest drop rate and as you mentioned his talent and running a Pro Style Offense, there's true promise there. 

 

He does need to work on his footwork to avoid the errant throws, but considering all of these QBs have some issues that need to be developed or refined, Lamar Jackson is a tremendous prospect and could be the centerpiece in an NFL Offense with the right coaching staff. 

[The Jokeman]

7 minutes ago, TC in St. Louis said:

Because of what DeShaun Watson did last year....in my opinion everybody is pretending that they aren't going to draft Lamar Jackson.  The guy is a stud.  Lightning fast, big arm, a defensive coordinator's nightmare.  Nobody's talking about him, but I'm thinking he's going early.  I don't know about top 5, that seems dumb.  But Houston found a STAR in Watson, and Lamar is a faster, more explosive player.  According to the internet, Watson ran a 4.66, and Jackson a 4.34.  

 

Tyrod was a scary asset as a Bill.  His main problem was his tendency to panic in the pocket and not be able to find receivers.  But his talent made him a tradable asset and Cleveland's number one guy right now.  

 

If the Bills continue to participate in this misdirection, and he's there at 12 say Hello Lamar.  Welcome to the Bills.

Funny but DeShaun had the same issue as Vick seemed to have in the NFL which is both are fragile and ended up getting hurt. Same thing with RG III. Sorry but the NFL has been a QB passing league since the 70s and likely remain that way until further notice. Give me a trade up for Rosen, Darnold or wait for pick 22 for Rudolph. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

My information is indicating that he will plummet. People won't know why. But he will drop , drop drop, to the bottom of the first or maybe even into the 2nd.

 

Im not insisting he will but that is my best guess at this point in time.

[Southern Bills Fan]

I think many people are overestimating the couple of good games that Watson had last year. We seem to gripe about accuracy and turnovers on here quite a bit and Watson was inaccurate and a turnover machine in college. If he can continue to be successful when D-Coordinators game plan for him (they didn't last year) then he has a chance to be special. Seeing him on all these lists of the top players in the league on television and people talking about him like he is a superstar seems a bit premature imo.

[TheFunPolice]

I was listening to Sirius NFL Radio the other day and they were talking about how, if you draft Jackson, you need to build an entire offense around him.

 

Then it hit me: the Bills are in the PEFECT spot to do that. There are almost no established offensive pieces and we have a brand new OC. The Bills will be building an offense from the ground up pretty much no matter what. They could easily build one around Jackson if they so choose.

 

 

[Tenhigh]

Hopefully the Jets or the Broncos are sand bagging on him...

[TheFunPolice]

Watson was pretty amazing...

 

The first time he played was a bit of a clunker, then he put up 19 TD and almost 2,000 yards in 6 games. That is pretty damn good!

[HumbleAndHungry]

Deshuan may not be as fast as Lamar but he functions much better in the pocket 

[bmur66]

If the intention was to draft Jackson then who would be better to bring him along than Tyrod? Maybe the Browns want Jackson.

[chris heff]

36 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

he will be good, if you want that kind of QB.  what scrambling QB has ever been successful for long though?  let's say he is Mike Vick.  ok, was Vick really that great?  maybe you can have a couple of good seasons but injuries and failure to develop as a pocket passer and these types of QB's are out of the league quick

Fran Tarkenton, Roger Staubach, just to name two HOF QBs.

[DrDawkinstein]

It's a lazy comparison. Deshaun had a much better college career as it pertains to potentially transitioning into the NFL, imo. He "Quarterbacked" his team to two National Championship appearances, and one National Championship victory. Something Jackson didnt get close to doing (and disappointingly neither did Mayfield).

[TH3]

33 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

I think many people are overestimating the couple of good games that Watson had last year. We seem to gripe about accuracy and turnovers on here quite a bit and Watson was inaccurate and a turnover machine in college. If he can continue to be successful when D-Coordinators game plan for him (they didn't last year) then he has a chance to be special. Seeing him on all these lists of the top players in the league on television and people talking about him like he is a superstar seems a bit premature imo.

Huh...what....the Texans Offense EXPLODED with Watson...

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, chris heff said:

Fran Tarkenton, Roger Staubach, just to name two HOF QBs.

 

Those were good scramblers. They werent running  with the speed and power these new guys have. The problem is, that speed and power means harder collisions and more injuries. Even just going to the ground.

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, chris heff said:

Fran Tarkenton, Roger Staubach, just to name two HOF QBs.

from before I was born lol

[starrymessenger]

For Lamar to max out in terms of his very high ceiling, he needs to develop as a pocket passer and not be limited to a customized RPO. I don't know if he can get there but there is ample evidence to suggest that he is capable of improving on both the physical (purely mechanical in his case) as well as the mental requirements. So while nothing is guaranteed to me he is a really great prospect. Imagine if Tyrod was really good at throwing the football. Think QB would still be at top of our shopping list? Say "no".

I see where some posters question the ability of young QBs to get better by improving their mechanics. That of course is total nonsense - "muscle memory" etc...lol. If that were the case you would have to discard some of this year's best prospects (excluding only Rosen and maybe Mayfield). You would also have to dump the great Aaron Rodgers because when his mechanics deteriorate his performance goes south - like that stretch of four or five games a couple years back that just about gutted the Packers season until he went back to work with his QB coach.

I'm pretty sure Lamar is not the guy Beane has at the top of his board. My guess is he likes Darnold and Rosen a lot more (with some justification IMO). But if he can't get what he wants, Lamar Jackson could be what he needs.

 

Edited April 19, 2018 by starrymessenger

[BuffaloBillyG]

44 minutes ago, TC in St. Louis said:

Because of what DeShaun Watson did last year....in my opinion everybody is pretending that they aren't going to draft Lamar Jackson.  The guy is a stud.  Lightning fast, big arm, a defensive coordinator's nightmare.  Nobody's talking about him, but I'm thinking he's going early.  I don't know about top 5, that seems dumb.  But Houston found a STAR in Watson, and Lamar is a faster, more explosive player.  According to the internet, Watson ran a 4.66, and Jackson a 4.34.  

 

Tyrod was a scary asset as a Bill.  His main problem was his tendency to panic in the pocket and not be able to find receivers.  But his talent made him a tradable asset and Cleveland's number one guy right now.  

 

If the Bills continue to participate in this misdirection, and he's there at 12 say Hello Lamar.  Welcome to the Bills.

When looking for the next QB remember that Kim Pegula herself stated (and I'll paraphrase) it was a big deal to get to know that guy as he's the face of the franchise.

 

How do you think his visit to Buffalo went? Therein lays your answer.

7 minutes ago, bmur66 said:

If the intention was to draft Jackson then who would be better to bring him along than Tyrod? Maybe the Browns want Jackson.

Disagree. If you have a QB that uses his legs and has had success there it would make more sense to bring in a pocket passer to bring him along in that area. Just my opinion though.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

from before I was born lol

 

Hey man, Paddy Driscoll lead the 1925 Chicago Cardinals to a championship. Boom, get Lamar.

[Skins Malone]

I dont see the Bills taking him imo.  I think they are looking for a more traditional pocket passer especially after Tyrod.  I like Jackson but i worry about injuries with running qbs and jackson has a lean frame.  

[napmaster]

6 minutes ago, bmur66 said:

If the intention was to draft Jackson then who would be better to bring him along than Tyrod? Maybe the Browns want Jackson.

 

$15M to have Tyrod teach Jackson?  No thanks - I'm fine with pick #65 and salary cap relief.

[chris heff]

6 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

from before I was born lol

Doesn’t change the fact that those two and many others were successful scrambling QBs.

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, chris heff said:

Doesn’t change the fact that those two and many others were successful scrambling QBs.

that was a completely different game.  since about 2000 it's been a passing league.  the successful qb's play from within the pocket and within structure

[foreboding]

Watson was and is a proven WINNER. Anyone who doubted that got sucked into some crud. He proved it in college and now in the pros. Everyone looks dumb for passing on that guy.

[Bruce_Stools]

47 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

I've got no issue with Drafting Lamar at 12 because he is a MUCH better pocket passer than some fans give him credit for. I've said it for over a month now, but the video on him is good about being in the pocket and his accuracy completion % is at 59.1%, just .09% shy of the benchmark 60% most say is needed to be considered a truly viable QB prospect going into the NFL. When you add in the fact that out of the top 6 his receivers had the highest drop rate and as you mentioned his talent and running a Pro Style Offense, there's true promise there. 

 

He does need to work on his footwork to avoid the errant throws, but considering all of these QBs have some issues that need to be developed or refined, Lamar Jackson is a tremendous prospect and could be the centerpiece in an NFL Offense with the right coaching staff. 

.09% shy of 59.19%

[chris heff]

20 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Hey man, Paddy Driscoll lead the 1925 Chicago Cardinals to a championship. Boom, get Lamar.

I wasn’t endorsing Jackson, kdiggz stated that no scrambling QB ever had success in the NFL. That statement is patently untrue.

14 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

that was a completely different game.  since about 2000 it's been a passing league.  the successful qb's play from within the pocket and within structure

Russell Wilson

Edited April 19, 2018 by chris heff

[MiltonWaddams]

1 minute ago, chris heff said:

I wasn’t endorsing Jackson, kdiggz stayed that no scrambling QB ever had success in the NFL. That statement is patently untrue.

Was Steve Young a "scrambling QB" or just good on the move? Same question applies to Russell Wilson.

[BigBuff423]

3 minutes ago, Bruce_Stools said:

.09% shy of 59.19%

 

Yup, you're right....my bad. Quickly typing to make my point and not even considering the math....thanks.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

38 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I love him but I don’t think the Bills do. I don’t see it as any kind of smokescreen either. 

 

I agree.

 

Moreover, although I could be wrong, I think Jackson and his Mom are being intentional about the draft process.  If some teams find it "hard to schedule" with him while others find it straightforward, IMO it's not because the Jackson camp can't manage a schedule.  It's because Felicia Jones (aka "Mama Kodiak Bear") needs to be persuaded that team's interest aligns with her son's.  And I think they want Jackson to go someplace with an established QB, QB coach and OC where he can sit for a bit, and preferably someplace where the coach has a track record of using a QB with a unique skillset mindfully.

 

If I were offering an opinion to the Jackson camp, I would regretfully have to tell them that Buffalo would NOT be that place.

[Mr. WEO]

Draft day is going to be like a long anticipated bowel prep for TSW.  

 

 

[Floydboy12]

Living in KY I have seen a lot of Lamar. He's an electric athlete who can do things I haven't seen since Vick. But as others have stated, his style will lead him to injury I am afraid. And I agree that the Bills seem to be looking for a traditional drop back passer. They were ready to bench Tyrod for Peterman for gods sake. If the Bills took him at 22 I wouldn't be unhappy. He can be unreal at times. But we would hold our breath each time he took the field waiting for that season ending hit. 

Edited April 19, 2018 by Floydboy12

[Skins Malone]

It would be great to beable to get a qb without having to move up.  The Bills could get some great players in this draft.  And i do like Jackson alot.  I just dont think the Bills take him.

 

Is it true that he was he did very poorly at the white board at the combine? I heard that somewhere but dont know if its actually true

 

[DrDawkinstein]

13 minutes ago, chris heff said:

I wasn’t endorsing Jackson, kdiggz stated that no scrambling QB ever had success in the NFL. That statement is patently untrue.

Russell Wilson

 

I know, Im just kiddin around. But I also wont count Tark and Staubach in current conversations.

 

Wilson is a good example, and I've brought him up before to prove my point as well. No other running QBs are as built as thick as Wilson. That has gone far to help him sustain play and not get injured (although it did finally catch up to him recently). Wilson is the best built for the job. Tyrod is second, and he's been nicked up. RG3 and Vick had the same build and both had major injuries. Then to top it all off Jackson is by far the thinnest and frailest of the bunch!

 

Regardless of his ability as a passer, I just dont see Jackson lasting more than 2-3 seasons in this mans league.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

58 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

he will be good, if you want that kind of QB.  what scrambling QB has ever been successful for long though?  let's say he is Mike Vick.  ok, was Vick really that great?  maybe you can have a couple of good seasons but injuries and failure to develop as a pocket passer and these types of QB's are out of the league quick

 

First to point out that with the analogy to Mike Vick, he did spend 13 years in the league, and while he did miss time in 2 of his first 6 seasons, it was no more and sometimes less, than a number of classic pocket passers such as Sam Bradford and Matt Stafford have missed - Stafford missed significant portions of his first 2 seasons.  And then what would you say about Andrew Luck?  Vick was also drafted #1 because of his beautiful throwing motion and passing abilities.  In his return from "federal vacation", Vick developed into a far better pocket passer.

 

It's undeniable that Lamar Jackson can run, but to think of him as a "scrambling QB" IMO misrepresents him.  He didn't pass for as many yards as Josh Rosen this past season (and his So year) because he's a "run first" guy.  If you watch film from 2017, it's clear most of the time when Jackson runs, it's a designed run play, and that when he's executing a designed pass play, he moves to set up the pass, not to run.

 

OK, that said....legit questions about Jackson would be how much he handled setting the protections after pre-snap read or any play calling responsibilities; how well he can process and learn the game at the pro level (not because of his Wonderlic, just because of the different expectations and because IIRC Petrino calls things from the sidelines), and whether he'll be able to continue to improve his mechanics at the pro level.  Another question would be: there's clearly a family/financial motivation for Jackson, does he love the game and have a fire to be great that will persist, once the financials are set?

 

I have similar questions about Josh Allen's processing abilities and technique (despite his great Wonderlic) and they have nothing to do with his "scrambling" abilities.

[chris heff]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I know, Im just kiddin around. But I also wont count Tark and Staubach in current conversations.

 

Wilson is a good example, and I've brought him up before to prove my point as well. No other running QBs are as built as thick as Wilson. That has gone far to help him sustain play and not get injured (although it did finally catch up to him recently). Wilson is the best built for the job. Tyrod is second, and he's been nicked up. RG3 and Vick had the same build and both had major injuries. Then to top it all off Jackson is by far the thinnest and frailest of the bunch!

 

Regardless of his ability as a passer, I just dont see Jackson lasting more than 2-3 seasons in this mans league.

That maybe true, but the NFL also has a long history of QBs that stand in the pocket like a statue of a Confederate general just waiting to be taken down, like Drew Bledsoe. Those guys also get injured.

[KDIGGZ]

sure other QB's can get injured too but scrambling QB's are far more likely to get injured.  you are putting yourself in harms way on purpose.  historically they don't last as long.  sure Vick played 13 seasons but how many of them was he any good?  the first 2 when he could run maybe.  after that he became very average to below average.  i'm not a fan of the running type QB's.  i think in the NFL you need to be a pocket passer.  Jackson is going to have a great start to his career no doubt.  if you said which of these QB's is going to be rookie of the year i would put all of my money on Lamar Jackson.  i just don't think it is a sustainable model for success

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, chris heff said:

That maybe true, but the NFL also has a long history of QBs that stand in the pocket like a statue of a Confederate general just waiting to be taken down, like Drew Bledsoe. Those guys also get injured.

 

Sure, the trick is to find a happy medium. I get injuries can always happen and are impossible to predict, but Im simply not a fan of how thin Jackson's build is. Especially for a guy who is going to choose to tuck and run instead of throwing it away.